-18 votes

I can not in good conscience vote for Gary Johnson - if you don't understand the LIFE issue you don't understand Liberty

While I have no problem with My Ron Paul friends and Daily Paul activists choosing to vote Gary Johnson, I cannot support him and will not vote for him.

I am Pro Life, I believe once a person is created, that person has a RIGHT to exist. It's the highest form of true liberty, because if you don't have the right to exist, you have no other rights. I have heard all the variations on when life begins, some people saying multi cell structures are not humans, to those that believe in unrestricted anytime abortion like Gary Johnson. At conception, every aspect of a unique person is created in the form of a DNA strand, eyes, intelligence, height, even medical problems, there is no other person that has that exact DNA code on the planet. We have choices we make every day, we choose to marry, go to college, commit crimes, speed, back candidates and have sex. When you make that choice to have sex you know the consequences, just like when you speed or rob a bank. Once life has been created, it can't be turned back, unless that life is extinguished. Libertarianism is all based on laws that do not harm others, like legalization of Pot, but Abortion is the killing of something, no matter how small, so indeed it is harming by the act of destroying the person to be. The woman is not destroying her body by bringing a pregnancy to term, her body still has every organ and works the same regardless.

I wonder where we would be if abortions were legal back in the 1960's, 50's 40's etc? Would you be here, would Dr. Paul be here? Would Steve Jobs have been here? With well over 50 million abortions in the US since abortions were legalized, a good chance not.

For all my anti-war friends, if we allow there to be a war on the unborn, and if we don't respect life, how can we ever expect fellow Americans to care about war? Respect for life starts at the beginning, not at the end. We have cheapened life so much, that lives are now commodities, sometimes on the battlefield, sometimes on the abortion table, soon to be on death panels at your local post office like medical office. Are you too old? do you bring anything to society? are you a Republican or Democrat?, oh third party, health care denied.

It's a slippery slope, every step you take makes it that much harder to climb back up the hill.

I will write Ron Paul in, or if that's not possible vote for the Constitution Party candidate, or sit on my hands.

Ron Paul 2012



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Alright. Well good luck

Alright. Well good luck voting for someone better than him in this election.

So, don't vote for Johnson, vote for the Libertarian Party!

Vote to create an alternative to the establishment duoploy, so that if we don't win the GOP next time, we have another opportunity, another choice. Ron Paul himself ran as a Libertarian, but the problem has always been that the Libertarian Party was not viable. Well, now it's on the verge of becoming viable, but not without your vote!

The Libertarian Party only needs 5% in order to start offsetting the duopoly campaign finance scam.

Campaign funding reimbursement for any political party that gets at least 5% of the vote—implemented in many states "to help smaller parties"—typically helps the two biggest parties

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballot_access#Other_obstacles_...

When someone asks you who you voted for, tell them "The Libertarian Party." If they say, "Johnson?" Say, "No, I voted for the Party itself, I voted to create an alternative to the establishment parties."

Not convinced

The problem with your argument is that I am against "Campaign Funding reimbursement"...
grant

Then work to eliminate that and vote for the Libertarian Party

Not voting to break the establishment's stranglehold will not help. In fact, it will actually make it harder to eliminate, because the biggest benefactor of reimbursement is the establishment duopoly!

Your disagreement makes no sense.

Did you not vote for Ron Paul as a Republican because the Republicans are one of the biggest benefactors of reimbursement?

Do you consider Thomas Jefferson a libertarian? I do.

The problem is that I am not in favor of creating the Libertarian Party or any other party. I am a libertarian and have no desire to become a Libertarian. I see the Democratic Party and the Republican Party as a single Party and would prefer that libertarians would take over the leadership of both. In truth I would prefer the government not recognize any Party. There has been many gains in local areas to get control over the Republican party, I would hope the same would happen in the Democratic Party. I am not about to give up. I will work within the Republican Party to make changes to get better candidates nominated, In the meantime I will elect libertarian Pro-Life individuals, regardless of which party they take membership.

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed
of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in
politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for
myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and
moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I
would not go there at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis
Hopkinson, 1789.

You don't have to leave the GOP to vote Libertarian

You don't need to register Libertarian to vote that way, so you don't need to become one. They accept votes from all parties. You don't have to give up taking over the GOP either. It's just a vote.

Based upon both your replies, it's clear you are only making up excuses, and they're not good excuses because they're both based upon false presumptions.

I greatly disagree with political parties too, but in order to end them we must be in a position to first. We won't get to that position until we have defeated the establishment duopoly dictatorship. Taking over is one way to work at this, but having an alternative voice or party helps too. The fact is that we already have a party based system, and you're already a part of it.

Produce more of the same?

I agree with about 99% of the Libertarian Party platform except it's refusal to recognize the personhood of an unborn child. For me this flies in the face of the basic principle of the constitution, "All men are Created equal". For this reason I have not and will not join the Libertarian Party. I am also not a member of the Republican Party nor the Democratic Party. If I was to join the Libertarian Party it would be only after a change is made to the platform for it to recognize the personhood of an unborn child.
Now you say I should vote for the Libertarian party so they can get funding from the government? That is called theft, another thing I don't agree to support. It also happens to be against the Party Platform.
Corporations: Eliminate all federal subsidies to private corporations, as well as all antitrust laws.

When the Libertarian party puts up a presidential candidate or any candidate that I can back, of course I will vote for the Libertarian party candidate. Gary Johnson is not someone I can back. If a candidate does not consider a fetus a person, then I do not consider a candidate a person that I can give my vote. I prefer to vote for Dr. Ron Paul by writing him in or ignore the presidential election and find and vote for congressmen and local government officials that do support the personhood of a unborn child from the time of conception.
grant

You said you prefer libertarians take over "both" parties

There are not two parties, there's only one, the party of big government, counterfeiting, and war. Also, the way you say that sounds like you're not helping? You want libertarians to take over the GOP, but you're not yourself? Is that correct?

If abortion is your main issue, then "both" these parties are not very pro-life, because they have Obama and Romney as their nominees, and they've done very little to eliminate it or even remove federal control and regulation. Both Obama and Romney have, in fact, supported it, and are very anti-life with their warmongering. If you're for life, then all life should matter, not merely the fetus. War is anti-life. At least the Libertarian Party is not warmongers and not counterfeiters. Counterfeiting is the core problem, and it leads to war.

And, that is the very point of voting for the Libertarian Party. You may not like the candidate this time, so don't support that candidate. But do support an alternative to the establishment, where a candidate that you do like can make a viable run in the future.

Has Dr. Ron Paul endorsed Gary Johnson?

If he does, let me know. Has Gary Johnson agreed to recognize the personhood of an unborn child from conception? if he does, let me know. Until then I think it is great that you support the Libertarian Party and want change. I think it is great that there are those working to change the Republican party from within and I think it would be great if the Democratic Party would do the same.
I am anti-war as I have posted it here hundreds of times.
I am against the legalization of abortion on demand.
So if a candidate does not meet my demands I will not vote for them. They are public servants are the not? And I have the right to support them if I choose.
grant

I don't think he's going to endorse anyone this year

Every one his endorsements this year is Republican, so he's focused on becoming the GOP, as he wants everyone to do. And I think he'll only be endorsing Republicans from now on, because if he were to endorse outside the GOP it would look he was being hypocritical of his strategy.

However, the only presidential candidate Ron Paul has invited to share a stage with him is Governor Johnson. So, I know he has some respect for him.

And, of course, even though Romney is a Republican, Ron Paul is not endorsing that criminal. So, it looks like a presidential endorsement will not be forthcoming this year.

Best wishes for Gary Johnson.

I have respect for Gary Johnson as well. Doesn't mean I am going to vote for him. I will pray he changes his stance on the issue of personhood for the unborn. If he does, I will gladly back him in the next election in 2016 whether he runs as a Republican or Libertarian.
grant

my friend

GJ mentioned on Twitter he would appoint pro-life Judge Andrew Napolitano to SCOTUS.

LL on Twitter: http://twitter.com/LibertyPoet
sometimes LL can suck & sometimes LL rocks!
http://www.dailypaul.com/203008/south-carolina-battle-of-cow...
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

I am listening.

But he still has a way to go to get my vote, I plan to write Dr. Ron Paul in for president.
grant

Check this out

"And, that is the very point of voting for the Republican Party. You may not like the candidate this time, so don't support that candidate."

The LP split.. Many Libertarians joined the rEVOLution and followed Ron Paul's lead into the GOP where we are now seated and working to Restore The Republic as RepubliCANs. While others, new to the LP, have accepted the nomination of Republican GJ to lead them in the LP ever quest to break out of the marginal voter box it was designed for by establishment, like GJ.

Governor Romney over Governor Johnson?

Voting for Romney does not help anything. The Republican Party is already well-established; too well established. The Republican Party does not need any votes, especially for Romney!

I voted for other Republicans on my ballot, but for president the best choice is Libertarian Party.

Further, why don't you compare Governor Johnson's record to Governor Romney's? They are worlds apart! Johnson is clearly anti-establishment and pro-liberty. Romney is nowhere close! He's an authoritarian that forced government mandates on his state, banned arms, supported abortion, lobbied Washington, and supported government bailouts!

Governor Johnson and Governor Romney are so far apart on liberty that it's extremely suspicious how anyone supporting liberty could choose Romney over Johnson.

Who's backing GJ?

Wh's GJ got on committees, in offices to materialize his campaign promises?

People interested in liberty are backing Governor Johnson

No matter how many people Romney claims to have supporting him, don't expect any of his campaign promises to be fulfilled either. In fact, based on his record, expect the exact opposite of his promises.

Besides, I don't even expect Johnson to win, let alone fulfill his campaign promises. I only hope that he gets 5% and establishes a solid alternative to the Republican and Democratic gangs.

I hope

to be among the Republicans who helped Romney not acheive some of his campaign promises. It is my hope that as Ron Paul Republicans continue to vote based on the constitution, we should see big changes in the GOP and Romney.

Many of us were former Libertarians who have spent deacdes trying to do what you say GJ might do.. GOOD LUCK. You know where's we're at.

You can oppose Romney without voting for him!

How weird does that sound?

I don't want Obama to win

I'm not worried about 2016.. I want Obama to lose, I'm voting Romney.

Haven't you heard Dr. Paul say Obama & Romney are the same?

If not, I would be happy to find multiple videos of Ron Paul saying that, just for you, if you will seriously listen to him and consider changing your mind.

Yes, they are the same, but one of them is changing

That's our mission, change the GOP to represent Libertarian ideas, ending the fed and producing sound money, ending global corporate government and restoring the republic with the constitution, ending a police state and providing more opportunities for education in private colleges, medical options, housing and how we consume through a free market, fewer regulations, ending government departments and reducing taxes, restructure our relationshop with the MIC, ending the patriot act, and wars.

We are going to be what makes the parties different.
We are winning, despite the RNC, despite Romney.. it's about THE MESSAGE. It is NOT about RP, GJ, MR, O.. it is a rEVOLution where wee the people from the LP, joined the LP and have ground for moving our issues within the GOP. GJ does not fool us, or frighten us, or upset us.. he's there so you can have a safe place to vote during the election.

The GOP is not safe.. but it's a good fight, the kind that come once in a lifetime.. not everybody is willing, ready and able, but for those who are.. it's very exciting because we really are winning.

You're a little off on the mission

The mission is to become the GOP and influence the GOP. But we do that by running ourselves and voting for and supporting other liberty candidates within the GOP.

Not by voting for proven anti-liberty candidates and Necons, like Romney. He's the type we want to replace.

How do we replace them

If there is no one inside?

How do you replace insiders

when you are not inside? We work with what we have.. we have a GOP that has lost it's way and so we go insode the GOP to help them find their way to restore the republic.

Seriously, The Granger? I've told you this a half dozen times!

I am on the inside, and you don't have to leave the inside to vote! The way to replace anti-liberty candidates is run pro-liberty candidates against them in the primaries.

What is wrong with you Granger? You don't read any replies? You don't understand?

It's like all my replies to you have been completely ignored!

Pointless...

You need to understand, and

You need to understand, and maybe you already do, but abortion is one topic that the party and its members don't fully agree upon. But what power does the president really hold when it comes to this issue anyway?

supreme court appointments.

supreme court appointments.

Isn't the purpose of government...part of the platform?

Crime and Justice
Government exists to protect the rights of "every" individual including life, liberty and property. Criminal laws should be limited to violation of the "rights of others" through force or fraud, or deliberate actions that place others involuntarily at significant risk of harm. Individuals retain the right to voluntarily assume risk of harm to themselves. We support restitution to the victim to the fullest degree possible at the expense of the criminal or the negligent wrongdoer. We oppose reduction of constitutional safeguards of the rights of the criminally accused. The rights of due process, a speedy trial, legal counsel, trial by jury, and the legal presumption of innocence until proven guilty, must not be denied. We assert the common-law right of juries to judge not only the facts but also the justice of the law.

This clearly protects the rights of the mother by giving her the right to seek restitution from the father and from the child if she wants to bring criminal charges against either.
grant