69 votes

Ron Paul Supporters, You Are Too Naive!

Let's stop being gullible and naive and start being more rational.

It seems as though every time there is a politician/talk show host, for example Palin or Glenn Beck, agreeing with just a minute number of Dr Paul's policies, or when somebody says something positive about Ron Paul, we are quick to throw our support to them. Palin/Beck is a perfect example. Palin...Really? PALIN? BECK?

Also this third party issue has come up far too often. Ron Paul gives the same answer ALL the time. Ron Paul is consistent and has always been that way. From his consistency we should be able to conclude that he is not going to run third party based on the numerous times he has answered the same question. But we should already know that!

This guy below was just telling it as it is, yet the crowd here remained in denial. He was just telling the truth, and received 50 down votes as a result... I know we are more rational/independent thinkers than that.

We down vote this post
http://www.dailypaul.com/252940/doug-wead-zero-chance-of-ron...

And at the sametime we up vote this post?
http://www.dailypaul.com/252900/update-for-that-conference-c...

I think maybe we are clinging on to too much hope which is blinding us from being rational.




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Clinging? On to hope? Really?

I am sorry. But without "hope" what else do we have to cling on to?
I have been campaigning for Ron Paul for the past five years none stop, not even knowing for sure that he would even run again. Do you call that clinging? You can of course.
And during this campaign, just about the time everyone was willing to keep fighting (against all odds) that genius Benton would say something that would take a little wind out of the sail, or some mole would get people all confused about what was going on so that people would lose trust in the strategy of the campaign. We would get a good head of steam going and someone would remove the kettle from the fire just enough to slow us down.
We all knew from the start what we were up against. Many of us watched the GOP infiltrate and take over the TEA party movement a few years ago, and we knew exactly what was up with that. But we were at the same time infiltrating the party and working from the inside there as well. So some of us overlooked the TEA party takeover because we were busy spreading the liberty message and handing out literature to educate the new people. Unfortunately most of them were hanging on every word of the GOP insiders that had moved in with an agenda to support only the establishment republican candidates and platform by calling it "liberty" even when it was not or they were not. Case in point...Mitt Romney.
Believe me...I would sit here at times and ask WHY when reading how Benton (or the campaign) was fighting with whoever over some trivial issue concerning the campaign not being able to support a grassroots effort going on. And a number of other stupid mistakes in progress that should have never happened. But hey...most of us are libertarian minded, and libertarians have one thing in common, that being we never agree on everything. Which to me is way cool. It is individual liberty in motion.
To get to the point here though.
Of course we cling. And when it is because of some of our most loyal liberty fighter squad in the field (the delegates) wanting to try to get Ron Paul to keep up the good fight, the same fight that he started and 'they' have continued to try their best to support the man and the message...by gosh we will defend their courage and wishes over the alternative any day and every day of the week.
Now what is wrong with that?

RAND PAUL or NOT AT ALL

Let your hope fuel your

Let your hope fuel your conviction.
Don't let it blind you from reality.
Without seeing reality accurately... you cannot change it efficiently.
You can't offer a cure for a problem you can't diagnose in detail.

Would you rather plant your feet into the ground and push in exactly the right spot... or would you rather push with all your might while balancing on a tightrope that you've convinced yourself is the ground?

Example. Were you one of the thousands of people that thought Paul still had a chance after he publicly announced that he wouldn't have enough delegates?

Were you one of the thousands that failed to ignore the fact that the only way to win was to convince a THOUSAND neo-cons that already disliked Paul's foreign policy out of FEAR and their "disrespectful" and "party sabotaging/obama electing" supporters?

Were you one of the thousands who didn't realize the nomination attempt at that point was ONLY for the sake of getting him 15 minutes to speak?

If so, you spent all that time thinking the same things over and over again about him winning... when you COULD HAVE been thinking about who you were going to get behind and actually vote for... who out of the 3-4 candidates would promote liberty in the country the most whether or not they were a true libertarian... who would have the most positive effect out of those that have an actual chance... which candidate's good outweighs the bad?

Nope... you were too busy thinking about the literally impossible. For you to say it wasn't impossible is the same as to claim that Paul was a quitter by admitting defeat for the presidency.

Critical Thinking > Emotional Thinking > Pseudo-Intellectuals that Saturate DP
Utilitarianism > Consequentialism > Deontology > Egocentrism
Making people feel "troll'd" with the truth > being an intentional troll > acting like one naturally

It took millions of ignorant

It took millions of ignorant voters in 2008 to elect Obama. you can bet those same voters who helped to weaken our economy down, create a larger government and continue the United States down the road toward Socialism will again vote for Obama because they are incapable of critical thinking and just as ignorant today, if not more so than they were in 2008.

Bob Marshall

Is Someone Naive Who Prefers To Believe ....

That people will choose not to have the national economy utterly self-destruct rather than to continue kicking the can down the road pretending that by ignoring the debt, that the debt will simply fix itself?

That our fellow citizens understand that a dollar arising from productive activities and savings will be better spent than a dollar arising from debt and inflation?

That an action voluntarily agreed upon is moral and just, while an action compelled by threats is immoral and unjust?

That the creation of wealth is necessary before wealth can be distributed?

That most economic information is tacit and unarticulable, and therefore unavailable for philosopher kings in making their economic decisions for the world.

That rule by benevolent, wise, compassionate, empathic, philosopher kings is always Tyranny in actual practice?

That coercive love begets apathy and guilt rather than genuine compassion?

That government charity is to voluntariy charity as rape is to consensual sex?

That the maximum expression of good, by those who have access to socially sanctioned violence, must always become evil, and that the minimum expression of evil is their best attainable good?

That progressive legislation is, in actual practice, the best friend that crony capitalism could every hope to have?

That results flow not from good will, or intentions, but rather by process, ie., Liberty?

That the question of what decisions each individual makes is not nearly as important as whether each individual is allowed to make those decisions for themselves?

That trust is something that no large anonymous institutions can give to you by fiat?

That truth does not come from authority?

That Utopia has never been an realistic option?

For more see (http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/2664630)

We Libertarians Trust our fellow human beings to chose for themselves, rather than having Philosopher Kings chose for them. Therefore, by all socially established opinion, we are criminally Naive.

"The dearest ambition of a slave is not liberty, but to have a slave of his own."
Sir Richard Burton

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Did Ron Paul Definitively Rule Out a Third Party Run on Leno?

Here is a detailed direct response to this thread.
http://www.dailypaul.com/253489/did-ron-paul-definitively-ru...

Yes.

Have you read or watched "He's just not that into you." ?

Sadly, after lurking on here

Sadly, after lurking on here for over a year just for the sake of more up to the date news regarding Paul and the cause of liberty, and finally joining... I've come to the realization that the people here are just as bad as anywhere else.

The supposed "truth seekers" can't handle the truths they don't want to here. Cue the willful ignorance and pathological denial. Then because they all take loyalty to Paul and their own noble ego-stroking libertarianism OVER integrity to themselves, reality, and in turn others... cue them thinking others agreeing with them adds any credibility.

People that like how something completely untrue or fallacious sounds and they get rated up like crazy or people not liking what a valid argument says... they all gang up to rate down.

Expressing discontent with the truth and showing support for willful ignorance that let's them believe what they want to believe.

The thing that's going to pull apart the liberty movement is the willful ignorance of those in it.

"I know we are more rational/independent thinkers than that."

Actually... they're not... but they'll go to their graves thinking they are.

Cue the mass group of down-ratings on this comment because deep down they know I'm referring to them.

Critical Thinking > Emotional Thinking > Pseudo-Intellectuals that Saturate DP
Utilitarianism > Consequentialism > Deontology > Egocentrism
Making people feel "troll'd" with the truth > being an intentional troll > acting like one naturally

This is a prime

This is a prime example...
http://www.dailypaul.com/252951/linos-in-our-midst-those-tha...

Critical Thinking > Emotional Thinking > Pseudo-Intellectuals that Saturate DP
Utilitarianism > Consequentialism > Deontology > Egocentrism
Making people feel "troll'd" with the truth > being an intentional troll > acting like one naturally

By the way, this article on participation inequality

may shed some light on why Michael and co. use and up or downvoting system at all:

http://www.useit.com/alertbox/participation_inequality.html

kind of interesting, IMO.

Don't get too distracted by what internet strangers think

of your posts. If you think you still have something to contribute, keep pointing out your take on reality anyway. According to most estimates, 90% of people reading a post are lurkers, and not all of them are going to shut off their brain just because a comment has a red number in the upper left corner.

Re: willful ignorance, I think one of the many consequences of the internet age is that we are all willfully ignorant about a bunch of things by necessity. The rest of the world is pumping out knowledge way faster than any of us can take it up. We have to pick and choose which things we learn about now, and which things we ignore. Informational priorities will surely differ from person to person.

I get neurotic when people prioritize information seeking, and the kinds of information to be sought, differently than I do, but it sometimes helps to realize that's all that's going on.

Addendum: I downvoted myself to put my money where my mouth is. Kind of liberating.

I don't care honestly about

I don't care honestly about the ratings of my posts. I just think that it's funny in how those that use it in the way I described, don't realize the volumes it speaks about them.

Critical Thinking > Emotional Thinking > Pseudo-Intellectuals that Saturate DP
Utilitarianism > Consequentialism > Deontology > Egocentrism
Making people feel "troll'd" with the truth > being an intentional troll > acting like one naturally

Have to Analyze Your Faults

If all we read and wrote were positive comments then all our faults would go unchanged.

This movement got REALLY big and so we have a lot of people that just woke up yesterday or perhaps a couple minutes ago. We have a lot of gullible people. We just have a lot of people!

Almost everything I've learned about the world I learned in the past 4 years and some people are just beginning that process of opening their eyes. Sometimes its hard not to just believe everything.

Please don't thumb down comments for the reason that they are critical. <3 <3 <3

True that!!

True that!!

Thank you thank you

Thank you so much for this post. Where is everyone's minds?

Correct and thank you

Correct and thank you

But...

Hope got Obama elected ;)

Six personas mentioned. Ummm What was that message???

However, Doug, Israel A, and Ron Paul are friends and individuals.

Does it do an injustice to a man to create a persona for them with labels and by associations and sly innuendos or aspersions?

Ronald McDonald is a persona. So is Krusty the Klown. Bogart, Newman and Depp are masters of creating compelling personas for dramatic purposes.

Clemens (Million Pound Banknote), London (To the man on the trail), and Steinbeck (The Moon is Down) were literary masters of the craft.

The MSM is a persona factory. They often use the raw material of real individuals to back these political currencies, the persona they create out of thin air.

It seems clear to me after reviewing Dr. Paul's political career that the message of liberty was the ends to the means of political action.

For others on the campaign, the message was the means to a political end of nomination. Some simply understand how a political purpose can be motivational.

I am afraid the only way to banish naivete is to be omniscient. As it is, I don't even know what I don't know.

But I do know that autonomy leaves me free to discern for tomorrow what I missed today.

In November, we will be voting for Bradley Manning's current jailer or his new jailer.

Free includes debt-free!

Most countries have mulptiple parties

Though the USA has two dominant parties, most older countries have multiple parties, which to me is a healthy thing because you get more points of view in politics. Why shouldn't the USA have a third party emerge? Are two parties better than three for debate? My main concern is actually corruption, over the number of parties. It is clear that the republican and democratic parties are corrupt. No political system - communism, republic, democracy is effective if it has corrupt representation.

Do we have 5 or 6 parties now?

Unfortunately, like governments, 3rd, 4th parties also eventually become corrupt. I've read that the LP was bought by a neocon. How can someone 'buy' a party? Evil people hell bent on power will always win if not held in check. That's our job. Because we as a population didn't do our job, the result is what we have. Most of us had no idea of the mess we are in or paid much attention to politics until Ron Paul. We believed without proof, what a candidate said.

You can't just keep making new parties and preserve the system. At some point you have to clean up the mess in one or more. Probably easier to clean one up than to start another since the two most powerful write the rules. Don't you think that's why Ron chose the GOP instead of the one most would probably prefer, the LP which would be much easier.

We are in a 'Mell of a Hess'. If we are successful in the clean up, will have to teach our children and they, their children, to be vigilant to maintain it. Ron Paul deserves The Nobel Peace prize [if it had any meaning now] and to be in school history books. I hope free people everywhere use his life in politics as an example to their children.
My thoughts, vote down if you wish.

Deekey

LIBERTY2ME's picture

It was my understanding that

It was my understanding that the video of the guy saying that RP was not going to run 3rd party was down voted because...

1)The video was from 8/3 (and frankly RP could have changed his mind for all we know)
2)Someone changed the date on this video to make it look like it was a more current video. They changed the date to the same date as when the 2nd post came out about the 3rd party run conference call.

Just because something is

Just because something is improbable doesn't mean it is impossible. Maybe Paul running third party was improbable, but it was not that clearly improbable and certainly wasn't impossible.

A good parallel example would be a sports game. How often do you see teams forfeit just because they're down by a lot at the end of the game? It doesn't matter to them that they probably won't win. They still muster up the energy to give it 110% on the off chance that it just might take them to victory.

There are extremely few, if any, cases of people securing and maintaining true freedom in the history of humanity. That would seem to make the possibility of EVER being free quite improbable. But, so what? Does that mean we should just bend over and take it? No! We fight until we die, and continue fighting, no matter how long it takes, even if we never truly reach our goals.

Liberty|Death

Some of Us Are Young

We oldsters have been through this before. We know this is a marathon with decades of planning required. We see this campaign as a win.

Many of those wanting him to run in an alternative party are making the mistake of thinking that one man can change the country, when in fact his election would simply signal that things were so bad that the voters were willing to take a chance on him. The president does little more than sign or veto bills. I'd love to have him in there vetoing bills, but GJ can do that, too. All it takes is not having been bought.

As for expressing ideas and teaching the public, Ron Paul's role in that is ongoing and we're part of it.

Pinning all our hopes on one man as president is what got us into this mess in the first place. We need to overhaul Congress and City Hall.

What do you think? http://consequeries.com/

As a youngster myself, I

As a youngster myself, I really appreciate your comment as it gave me an alternative perspective that I needed. I got too caught up in Ron Paul's presidency when I could have been being active in other ways.

Liberty|Death

I can't upvote this comment enough

It is hard to see past the cliff.

Yes, you are so right!

RP said on Leno that he couldn't have even come that far on a third party ticket. It was a huge score he was even on Leno, that Beck is talking about him, that he was on MSNBC walking the RNC floor, that Palin has been very supportive of RP throughout out the WHOLE election (she's from Alaska, after all!). Any publicity is good publicity, keep people talking about him & his views on the issues. That's the most important part of this whole thing: the DEBATE. We are winning the debate.

FAKE-TEA GOP Palin and FAKE-conservaitve/libertarian Beck...

are a CANCER to Constitutional Liberty. Their crafted PERSONAS have body-snatched AND NEUTERED the Tea Party and (predictably) REDIRECTED it FROM Ron Paul and towards Romney. The embarrassing part is how EASILY it was done. Beck, who ironically, is the GOP's version of Van Jones, with his "tears," mangled chalkboards and HALF-truths... Palin and her INSULTING, nonsensical "Giter-dun-havn-fun-youbetcha-momma-grizzly-boy-howdy-fight-like-a-girl-hopey-changy-gon-take-back-'merica!!!!!!"

We fall for it. Embarrassing.

Brother Winston Smith

The r3VOLution is NOT republiCAN.

LOL

Too funny and spot on.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Colorado Info, ps info

Colorado Info, ps info precinct 100% ron paul, district 100% ron paul, Denver 100% Ron Paul. It wasn't easy , the denver establishment,lied,cheated and stole and we still WON!!!!!!!!!!!! We are all now actively staying republicans but voting against Corruption!!! Romney has already lost colorado by his actions. Vote Gary Johnson!!! Republicans Voting Against Corruption

Ron Paul 2016

how does crap like this

make the front page?

why not? here is a lil info

why not? here is a lil info you can tell the rnc,gop est,romney campaign in colorado, the romney campaign has one voting block that could win it for him left in colorado, illegal aliens!!

ps,Colorado Info, ps info precinct 100% ron paul, district 100% ron paul, Denver 100% Ron Paul. It wasn't easy , the denver establishment,lied,cheated and stole and we still WON!!!!!!!!!!!! We are all now actively staying republicans but voting against Corruption!!! Romney has already lost colorado by his actions. Vote Gary Johnson!!! Republicans Voting Against Corruption

Ron Paul 2016