241 votes

The Ron Paul picture is gone...

I know that the Daily Paul is moving past focusing on Ron Paul's 2012 campaign, but did the Ron Paul picture on the right of the DP really have to get taken down? After all, our movement and this website IS still inspired by the good doctor even if it's no longer mainly about getting him elected. And that's all the picture said: "The Daily Paul is inspired by Ron Paul". Now there is nothing about him, not even a smaller picture. Does anyone else feel the same way?

Nystrom Update: Please see my response in this comment, below. Thank you.

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Sleeping on things can also help ones perspective(s).

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

I am being partly facetious

Nah, I take in lots of comments and it wears on me. I have read tons of acrimonious posts about how stupid we Ron supporters are. I personally know the ride is over, actually it is just beginning. You are taking steps to make that beginning making something awesome.

I made that post as a reflection, a rhetorical question. Are we really wanted? I want debate. I believe in debate and speech after all. Even if the question is absurd, why not state it?

I try to respond with some humor. Sorry about that if I offended you. I don't think this place is destined to become 'LP Redstate' (a place where only acrimony lives). Only, that is one of many futures I see about this place if 'inspiration' is left off the table. I am saying that it is up to us to have that personal inspiration. We could become much stronger and better. That is an outcome too. We will have to see after November if that will happen.

Hey, I posted ruined forever!!! That means if something changes IT IS RUINED FOREVER!!!! The DP is RUINED FOREVER if the good docs picture is taken off. That is something I do not believe if you are changing the size and scope of the mission of the DP.

Think of it like this, in Beast Wars, Optimus became a gorilla. This ruined Transformers forever because he was not a truck. Trukk not Munkky was the response to that, but now Beast Wars is loved. Changing the DP's scope (originally a truck then to a gorilla) will help expand the brand and hopefully bring new people TO Ron Paul's messages lol.

I commend you for your bravery, honesty and love for liberty Mr Nystrom. Sorry if I seem scatter brained or weird.

I just took my Old Testament test for Sem, and I am a bit weary.

Edit:
A more generic version of the Ruined Forever troupe.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DarthWiki/RuinedFOREVER

May the LORD bless you and keep you
May the LORD make His face shed light upon you and be gracious unto you
May the LORD lift up His face unto you and give you peace
Follow me on Twitter @ http://twitter.com/Burning_Sirius

Bottom line, getting out the message of liberty

http://toplibertarian.com/websites/compete_ranking/ #4

Hat tip to Michael Nystrom.

Free includes debt-free!

thank you~

for the list of websites. I was surprised to see how many I had visited in my search to find a place that fit my curiosity at the time.

Garnet
Daughter of 1776 American Revolutionists

More traffic than Cato's

More traffic than Cato's website? Not too shabby at all for one man's start-up project.

But...THE PICTURE'S GONE! ;)

"The casualty of partisanship is objectivity."

You can do what you want. It's still almost a free country....

well for now anyway. But you also run the risk of alienating people. That just goes with the territory. Personally, I find it disingenuous that you want to keep the name "The Daily Paul" while erasing all references or nods to him. It's like you are capitalizing on his brand without even throwing him a little respect. You built this site with your own efforts and ingenuity...yes. And Paul built his reputation for his entire life. You are already using his name as a type symbolism but you bristle at leaving his picture up. Don't you see how contradictory those decisions are? Why is using his name OK but not his picture? You may have started this site for all things Ron Paul, but clearly that is not your focus now. Yet you will continue reap the benefits of using his name. Why are you keeping his name? Is it for revenue?

I just find this all disingenuous and disrespectful. That's how I feel

Michael Nystrom's picture

I find it disingenuous to say that, when it is clearly not true

I took the picture off the front page, I didn't "erase all references or nod to him." That is a complete lie.

As far as "capitalizing on his brand," with all due respect it was the Daily Paul that helped build that brand. Who had heard of Ron Paul in January of 2007? This was the first site on the net supporting his campaign. Dr. Paul never asked me to do any of this. It was my idea from the beginning - I didn't ask for anyone's permission nor was I ever given any direction as to what to do with it.

That is what a free society is about. As far as 'reaping the benefits of using his name' - at this stage in the game, those benefits are slim. I'd be much better off selling this site to Rmoney, lol.

Yes, keeping the name is a nod and a hat tip of respect to the founding and roots of the site, as is the about page, and the 'about Ron Paul' page, neither of which are going away. But to keep his picture on every single page of this site forever just strikes me as overly idolatry, as I explained below.

Rolling Stone magazine doesn't have a picture of the Rolling Stones on the cover of every issue, and Ron Paul doesn't even put his own picture on the cover of his books. You see a picture of our founding father George Washington every day, on the fiat one dollar bill. Does that help you remember his message? The message only remains alive in the hearts, minds and actions of the people.

Anyway, I'm sorry you feel that way, but it is certainly not my intention. I'm really doing what I think is best for the movement, and I'm sorry that some people don't understand that.

To be mean is never excusable, but there is some merit in knowing that one is; the most irreparable of vices is to do evil out of stupidity. - C.B.

Hey Michael,

Just wanted to thank you for this website. I've enjoyed it so much. Probably too much, actually. There's something about this site that I found to be very addictive and yes, even idolotrous for me. I call it idolotry when I spend more time on this site that praying and reading God's Word, and seeking His will. Matthew 6:33

"Doing what I think is best for the movement"

That is possibly what is so upsetting, my friend.

You've also hinted a disagreement with Paul's long-term goal to take over the GOP and now it seems to be showing up in your work.

I think we can agree this thread is not really about the photo being here or not. It's not about not idolizing Paul, nor is it because of a few 'delusional' posters on here as you have suggested.

Has somebody put a bug in your ear about the direction of the revolution? Is your vision slightly different than Paul's?

If it is, I would ask you to please reconsider your position.

There are many people who could use your help on this. Not just the the National Delegates, or past candidates such as Amash, Lawson, Medina, Schiff, etc... It is about future candidates, and for people that are reshaping the GOP locally and countless other heros who I haven't listed.

We could use your endorsement on this strategy. In less you have a better idea. Then at least, let's debate the merits of it. But, please don't let a bug in your ear hastily shift what has already started. I'm afraid any effort to go against this strategy would seriously take the wind out of my sails and would cause nothing but division and fractionalism.

Michael Nystrom's picture

I'm sorry that you find individualism upsetting

I believe it is at the heart of this movement. I believe in thinking for myself and taking actions on the conclusions that I arrive at. That is how this website came into being. Ron Paul didn't ask me to make it. I don't know why I should drop the independent thinking that I've been practicing my entire life now.

Gasp! I have a different opinion than Ron Paul?! Blasphemy! Who do I think I am to not fall in line? Horror of horrors!

Has somebody put a bug in your ear about the direction of the revolution? Is your vision slightly different than Paul's?

Nope. No one has put a bug in my ear. I think for myself. Did someone put a bug in your ear that I've got a bug in my ear? Do you believe the only way people get ideas is from other people 'putting a bug in their ear?'

There are many people who could use your help on this.

Schiff? What is he, a multi millionaire many times over? I could use his help - believe me! And he could probably bankroll Amash, Lawson and Medina as well, and not even miss it. Right? Right? He's got so much money he won't even miss it! Right?

We could use your endorsement on this strategy.

Newsflash: My endorsement is not part of the revolution's collective property, any more than Schiff's money is. We're all individuals, and we all make our own decisions as to how to allocate our resources.

Romney could use Ron Paul's endorsement too. The only problem is - it ain't gonna happen. Can't do it. Sorry. Just don't believe in putting energy into strengthening the two party system. That is the root of the evil, imho.

Other people believe that's the way to go, but not me. If that turns your crank, great. More power to you. It doesn't turn mine.

I'm afraid any effort to go against this strategy would seriously take the wind out of my sails and would cause nothing but division and fractionalism.

Look kid, if the fact that I don't go along with your strategy, or the DP doesn't go with your strategy is going to take the wind out of your sails, then you don't have much conviction to begin with. That's the bug I'm putting in your ear: What do you stand for and why? What are you doing and why are you doing it? Is it because you believe in it? Have you thought it through? Or are you just a sheeple who has found a new leader to follow who's managed to slip a little bug in your ear?

These are serious questions Troy, and I expect you to treat them with the seriousness and respect that they deserve. For your own sake.

To be mean is never excusable, but there is some merit in knowing that one is; the most irreparable of vices is to do evil out of stupidity. - C.B.

You're not fooling anyone with your responses

Pretty much everyone but the nuts here respect you Nystrom, yet you are saying we don't respect your individualism? You didn't get 132+ reception for having a nice haircut or blind loyalty to Paul. People see you as a leader whether you want to be one or not. I see you have no problem making leadership decisions here so you're obviously complicit in the role.

So leader, why in this thread do you keep inferring people are essentially Ron Paul 'fanboys'? Anyone who knows even 1/4 of what you have done can arguably call you the biggest Ron Paul fanboy of them all, in retrospect or otherwise.

I mean how many people here successfully grew and operated the largest site with Paul's name it? Please, let's stop this already.

The only reason this thread exists is because of you. You created the poster and you took it down. Did you think nobody would notice?

It's an indisputable FACT the Daily Paul and its community WAS/IS still inspired by Ron Paul, even if Nystrom and a few others may not be. Did you think everyone would memory lapse? Are Daily Paul members known to be the 'go-along' to 'get-along' type?

We all know that the two-party system is evil (or perhaps better termed as corrupt). But that evil emanates from the people in charge, the same as it does from countries with many parties (ie, the UK). John Huntsman and Bob Barr proved the Libertarian Party is far from immune to this.

So please excuse us if we took Ron Paul at his word when he said taking over the GOP would be a long and difficult process. Do pardon us for thinking the man who created Ron Paul posters and acted as a delegate at the 2008 RNC would be on board.

And lastly, I don't know how old Troy is but I'm 30 years old. If you're going to be condescending please frame it with a more adult term than 'kid'.

Thank you for your time and thank you again for the Daily Paul.

================================
Fight the Ron Paul blackout on the Daily Paul (now 'P AU L'), put his removed poster back as your avatar:
http://www.mediafire.com/?9ir62bp8nshv83m

I have thought it through, bud

And I'm not too fond of your response. On the one hand you take credit for helping the movement, and then reject that you could actually assist. Now you infer that since I happen to agree with Paul's long term strategy, that I must not be an independent thinker?

I liked you a lot better when you seemed neutral and modest.

It isn't that I lack conviction, it is that I am greatly concerned about factionalism, which is what most great movements usually succumb to.

In any regard. Thanks for finally telling people what is on your mind.

Speaking of serious questions, if you ever want to take on that task, yourself - I look forward to discussing/debating third-party vs Paul's strategy with you. (Some other time.)

Michael Nystrom's picture

Sorry Troy

I don't expect that you would like my response, and I have to admit that I did it on purpose. It was a pretty strong response, and I did that in order to make a point.

I didn't like you're implication that 'someone put a bug in my ear.' That was an extremely rude and disrespectful thing for you to say. It sounds like you're implying that I'm being bribed or enticed by dark shadowy figures who are working against Dr. Paul, and I resent that.

But I think your response is tied to the picture issue: If that picture remains, the implication is, that by default, everyone here is a Paulbot, and no one can think for themselves, and if they have a disagreement, they've been bribed or are now "on the other side."

I simply have a difference of opinion.

On the one hand you take credit for helping the movement, and then reject that you could actually assist.

There is a difference between 'taking credit' for something and pointing out facts. Did this website help the movement? Yes, I think it is fair to say that it did. I don't go around trumpeting that - it is just something I had to bring up in response to yet another accusation of disloyalty below.

But just because I did this to help the movement doesn't mean I can do other things. This website was one big endorsement for Ron Paul. But can I endorse Medina, Lawson, Schiff or others? I don't even know who they are. And while building and running this website has been interesting to me, the idea of wading into all this other murky politics stuff holds absolutely zero appeal for me.

Now you infer that since I happen to agree with Paul's long term strategy, that I must not be an independent thinker?

I wanted to make you feel the way I felt when you implied that 'someone put a bug in my ear.' It isn't very nice when people do that, is it? But - they are serious questions. Just be sure you understand why you're doing something.

I'm not telling you - or anyone else - what strategy to pursue, and if you listen to Dr. Paul carefully, you'll hear that he isn't either. He isn't telling anyone what to do, other than what they want to do. However, if you want to be successful in whatever you choose to pursue, you need to understand and get a mastery over language and psychology. Don't go around accusing people, "Did someone put a bug in your ear?" Don't accuse people of being wrong simply because they disagree with you. You won't make a lot of friends that way, and it'll make it harder for you to achieve your goals.

I simply wanted to demonstrate that to you. Once you know how it feels, you'll be unlikely to do it to someone in the future.

I liked you a lot better when you seemed neutral and modest.

Just understand (we're getting deep here) that you're not really reacting to me, but to a projection of me in your mind. Which is to say, you're just reacting to yourself. All my words and actions here, the few pictures of me on the internet, my appearance in that documentary, is about a 1/10th of 1% representation of me.

So the more accurate statement would be, I liked you a lot better when I thought you were neutral and modest

In general, I'm a pretty modest, mild mannered person. So is Dr. Paul. There is nothing wrong with that. But we're all multifaceted. But when someone gets up in my face and pushes me, I push back.

As for neutral? There is no such thing as neutrality. Everyone has their self interest. You have yours, I have mine, Dr. Paul has his, and Rand has his own. That also is part of individualism, which is at the heart of this movement.

It isn't that I lack conviction, it is that I am greatly concerned about factionalism, which is what most great movements usually succumb to.

Cool. Then my advice to you is to do your thing, and not worry about factionalism, because it really isn't something you can control. So it is a waste of time to worry about stuff you can't control. Just go about your business and control what you can control and things will fall into place for you. I believe that to be true.

At the end of the day, you realize that the only thing you can control is yourself and your own actions. Some of us have a hard enough time doing that!

This is why I believe you should always do what you love. Some people want fame & fortune, or to change the world - worthy, but external goals. But all of those things are beyond your control. So if none of those secondary benefits ever arrive, at least you're doing what you love to do, and that is the reward in and of itself.

Good luck man.

But the entire point that I'm trying to make - with all of this - is that I would like people to think for themselves. I can't ask others to do that if I'm not willing to do it myself.

To be mean is never excusable, but there is some merit in knowing that one is; the most irreparable of vices is to do evil out of stupidity. - C.B.

There is something we can do to defend against fractionalism.

By pointing it out when you see it helps others. This thread is one big long discussion about it.

And I'm not a Paulbot - but I do suspect you have surrounded yourself with friendly yes-men who are afraid to challenge you because of your status. And whether it is a murky showdy figure behind the fog, Kokesh, a few mods, or a combination of dozen different people or a million different things in your life, I still challenge that suggestion. Because I don't agree with it and see it as particularly divisive.

And, by the way, I do believe it is a "new" thought, for you. Not something that you believed in all along.

Four years ago you once front paged "An Idea Whos Time Has Come" by G. Edward Griffin. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6015291679758430958

This is a lecture where Griffin explains the strategy of why take over the GOP and a brief history of different revolutions.

So, yes, I do think you have been persuaded by your peers. Maybe you don't like the implication but that's what I think. But that isn't really important. I really bring it up to also implore you to revisit an idea whos time has come. Because, as you said, it is a serious question. At the very least, I know it is something you once enjoyed watching.

bigmikedude's picture

Troy

I can assure you, those of us around him are generally not yes-men but without a doubt Michael's choices have the most bearing obviously, and even the power of veto if he doesn't agree with one of our suggestions because he is the true owner. Believe me, he is not some push over that just goes with the flow of anyone around him, yet he does respect our input.

When it comes to decisions, major or minor, we often do suggest otherwise, but also at times we agree with his decision. In which case I agreed with his decision from the start and supported it fully. Michael never holds anything against any of us when we disagree, nor us against him. In the end, we are a team of people, that finalize a lot of decisions together, through discussions of numerous varying opinions.

So you are saying you made Ron Paul?

Without the Daily Paul Ron Paul would be no where? He'd still be lost in the oblivion of obscurity?

the stranger's picture

missing the point

Thimbleberry; you likely have no way of knowing how much of a cheap shot that comment actually is. But the point is this - one hero is not enough. There comes a time when we need to be Ron Paul, at least a bit.

No I think I got the point

He said "As far as "capitalizing on his brand," with all due respect it was the Daily Paul that helped build that brand. Who had heard of Ron Paul in January of 2007?"

"The Daily Paul that Helped build the brand"...and "who had heard of Ron Paul Jan of 2007" clearly suggests that without The Daily Paul, Ron Paul would be still stuck in the same obscurity he suffered in 2007.

I beg to differ. Without Ron Paul, the Daily Paul or the like would have just been another blog and wouldn't have been remotely as successful as it is. Ron Paul himself is responsible for the swelling of the movement because he is trustworthy.

Name one other who has done so well...who has gathered and brought together so may different people?

You think it can so easily be repeated? Just ask Gary Johnson.

As for this site. He says the benefits of usingthe name "PAUL" is slim. Alright then. Change the name. You won't because your revenue would drop off. And you know it Michael. At least be honest about it

Michael Nystrom's picture

Oh brother

No I'm not saying that.

Thankfully, at least a couple people do understand what I'm saying so I'll let quiltingsando and HubrisAmericanus take it away, below.

Thanks you guys for understanding.

To be mean is never excusable, but there is some merit in knowing that one is; the most irreparable of vices is to do evil out of stupidity. - C.B.

I'm consistently amazed that

I'm consistently amazed that you and Ron have any hair left. Especially Ron.

We're all on the same team here. I think.

"The casualty of partisanship is objectivity."

No he is not saying he made

Ron Paul but he sure helped give Ron Paul's message a central location where people could come learn and question the Ron Paul message. I learned about Ron Paul here first in 2007, I don't think Ron Paul even had an official campaign web site yet when I came here.

I know one thing Grassroots citizens had this house jumping from 2007 to today. Michael gave us a place to discuss, bitch and organize.

Ron Paul may have the message but the Grassroots citizens built this house. This site is grassroots driven from the mods to those who post current events, thought provoking questions and how to survive advice.

I felt more welcomed here than the official Ron Paul website. Over the years I have been amazed at Michael's patience and hard work without whining or complaining.

Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.

With all due respect, I think

With all due respect, I think you completely missed Mr. Nystrom's point. He's just saying that he helped build Ron Paul's popularity on a national scale by creating this forum for all of us. Ron Paul didn't ask him to, and I don't think Michael imagined in his wildest dreams the DP would become what it has when he started it all those years ago.

Nowhere does he imply that Paul owes him anything, either literally or figuratively.

"The casualty of partisanship is objectivity."

I think Ron Paul helped build the Daily Pauls popularity.

not the converse. I don't want to be rude but....pa-lease!

Go back to the 2007 files

and read. If you were here then most of the topics were grassroots countering lies about Ron Paul. They were hard years, when the media was calling Ron Paul a KOOK the Daily Paul grassroots were discussing the message and how to HELP Ron Paul.

Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.

More than just fending off attacks.

Many were here making honest errors. Failing to consider all the arguments in a subject as complex as economics has been the failure of many and not unexpected.

Even after 3 total years here it is easy to miss a beat. But I recall some real blunders in my earlier days. By my nature, I don't take corrections personally (usually) and I work to make my commentary non-personal.

I have deleted many comments I have written merely because I failed to make a comment that respected the person.

I have never blocked a user to date, though I have come real close.

Too often, people are misunderstood, cantankerous, dejected or simple have trouble expressing themselves in written comments.

These are the hands we're given and this is the world we live in.

Free includes debt-free!

I don't think he would deny

I don't think he would deny that without Ron Paul there would be no Daily Paul. But it's not like every website with the name "Ron Paul" in it had the wild success that the DP did. I mean, give credit where credit is due.

"The casualty of partisanship is objectivity."

I'm With Michael

To those who are infuriated by the removal of the picture: THIS IS A WEBSITE! It's just a picture. We're all here because we care about liberty. Many of us (myself included) are very much in danger of becoming members of a RP Cult. I read what Michael wrote, and his words made a lot of sense.

I'm sorry to say it, but sometimes people who post on this site are flat out delusional ("Ron Paul can STILL be nominated from the floor and make headway in a brokered convention!" "Ron Paul can still run 3rd Party and make a splash!" "Ron Paul can sue the RNC and become Czar of the GOP"). OK, I made that last one up, but reading the absolutely nonsensical stuff some posters apparently believe about politics in this country is comical (if they weren't serious).

We need to move forward with the message, or our country is doomed. We have Ron Paul to look up to and to inspire us, but to single-handedly effect the kind of change this country needs, he would have to be given powers outside those granted to our representatives in the Constitution. WE need to get off our asses and run for Congress, educate our peers, spread the message of liberty and become leaders in our community. We need to pack the Congress with Ron Pauls. We can, but not if we're always waiting around for one man to give us marching orders.

Yes, movements need leaders. I have a feeling that, so long as RP lives, he will be there to assist and guide us. But we need to carry his momentum forward. Not complain about Michael taking down his picture on a damn website. That's a losing mentality.

Just IMHO. Love you all.

"The casualty of partisanship is objectivity."

So what is the DP's mission then?

Dr. Paul has educated on working the GOP. He has inspired to research history, learn core causes, and educate others in a professional manner.

So I look forward to 2013 when all the great posts will center on cutting edge information.

Ron is not disappearing. We will be hearing plenty from him.

It's about trying to use his frame of mind for all the studying and decision-making we will be making.

***

Do miss the picture though ... lol.

Maybe we could have some smaller thumbnail images with not only RP but other Liberty inspire'rs. Why? To have some fun inspiration from these teachers.

BUMP!

All the mods really told Katniss and I yeseterday when we were trying to talk to them was to wait for MN to post about it (because he's supposed to soon). However I can't see a situtation that his post wouldn't make me angry. There is, in my mind, NO justification for removing the picture that says 'inspired by Ron Paul' unless Dr. Paul HIMSELF specifically requested the removal of it, which I can gurantee you did not happen. At this point we just have to hope that they open their eyes and realize that they screwed up and put it back.

__
Formerly Tebowtime195
My blog: http://tebowtime95.wordpress.com
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