9 votes

Libertarians do not explain themselves well to non Libertarians. That is their biggest fault.

If they put it in language that resonated with ordinary voters they would get MUCH more support.

It is easy to do, but they don't do it.
Do they just want to remain an intellectual elite and never get elected?

Lots of high profile people in the Liberty movement are guilty of this.
Ron Paul, Lew Rockwell, Tom Woods.

Judge Napolitano has a way of speaking and presenting that does get a message across.
His piece on FreedomWatch with WSJ's Stephen Moore on zero taxes and the "biggest job creator in HISTORY" was excellent and would have resonated extremely well with ordinary voters if it had been used during Ron Paul's campaign. But it wasn't.

The FreedomWatch vid.

http://youtu.be/RI1TaTtNmQk

Even now Gary Johnson is taking completely the wrong approach to get anything more than minimal support.
His angle is asking people to be Libertarian for just one election.
Ordinary people won't do it.
It does not resonate with them at all.

Gary Johnson's campaign style should be something like this to get ordinary voters to start thinking.
http://ian56.blogspot.co....

Question 1
Should Ron Paul mount a Third Party run?

After Ron Paul's shameful treatment at the hands of the RNC and Romney in Tampa and throughout this primary election, do you think that Ron Paul should mount a Third Party run?

Yes :-
a) Gary Johnson/Ron Paul ticket
b) Ron Paul/Gary Johnson ticket
c) either of the above
d) Independent / run as something else

No :-
e) should not run

If your answer to 1 above was yes (answers a to d),

Question 2
Which platform and campaign style do you think would best appeal to ordinary Independent voters and get to 15% in the polls to enter the Presidential debates?

a) Job and Wealth creation and National Unity
Something like this http://ian56.blogspot.co....

b) Libertarian Ideals
Ron Paul's recent campaign stump speeches
Liberty, bring the troops home, end the wars, end the Fed etc.

c) Something else

Question 3
Which style of election do you want to see?

a) Current election style :- slanging matches, false claims, sound bites and empty rhetoric
b) Reasoned debate about real policies and real issues to the American people
c) Something else

Question 4
Do you think better information should be available on each candidate so that voters can make a more informed decision?

a) Yes
b) No
c) Don't know / no opinion

Question 5
Candidate information

Do you think that a comprehensive information pack should be issued by each candidate and that information pack should be able to be responded to by each rival candidate with their points also included on the same website?
(Possibly a rebuttal could also be included.)

a) Yes
b) No
c) Don't know / no opinion

Question 6
Budget Plans
Do you think detailed budget plans should be issued by each candidate and those budget plans should be able to be responded to by each rival candidate and that information be available on each candidates website?
(Possibly a rebuttal could also be included.)

E.G. this would form the basis of Ron Paul's response to Mitt Romney's budget plans.
http://ian56.blogspot.co....
A similar document would be issued as a response to Barack Obama's budget plan.

a) Yes
b) No
c) don't know / no opinion

Question 7
Candidate information (2)

Do you think that a comprehensive information pack should be issued by each candidate on each of the other two candidates in order to better inform the public about each candidates track record and policies?
(Again, possibly a rebuttal could also be included.)

E.G. this would form the basis of Ron Paul's information pack on Mitt Romney.
http://ian56.blogspot.co....

a) Yes
b) No
c) don't know / no opinion

Question 8
Presidential debates
Should the Presidential debate moderators be selected by the candidates, not the media?
One moderator nominated by each candidate, equal time for each candidate and each moderator.

a) Yes
b) No
c) Don't know / no opinion

Comments to be available on the online poll.
What if any further questions would you like to see?

N.B. Election Demographics (from 2010 election statistics)
40% Independent
33% Registered Democrat
27% Registered Republican

If all the Independents voted for 1 independent candidate it would not be a wasted vote.
The Independent would win by a landslide.
Some disaffected registered Republicans and Democrats would also vote for the Independent, making it an even bigger Independent landslide.
This is the major difficulty in running as a third party candidate - how to persuade the electorate that it is not a wasted vote.




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sorry I didnt read the whole thing

but to answer the topic question, I like to start off by rattling off the 0.0602 ounces of gold has been with 95% accuracy equal to a barrel of oil. Then state something about either the iraq/afghanistan wars or say "so the next time you hear 'middle east crisis' you know its crap." Then you can slowly ease into talking about the fed. Relating gold to gas should hit home with plenty of people. Its also probably good to poke at the fact that youll never hear it in the media and the surplus of gasoline that the oil companies have been shipping overseas.

Homeland security statement: patriotism is now considered terrorism.
I love www.isidewith.com shared it with everyone I know. If anything they realize its not just a red and blue idiot running for reelection.

Pep- Talk

I know this is cynical on my part, and I am sorry in advance.
Ordinary voters do not like things explained to them. Dr. Paul has tried to explain things like why our foreign policy is flawed, why the FED needs to be held accountable for its actions, and why subverting the constitution is dangerous to us all. However, this does not matter as much as hearing the America leads from the front! We are the greatest nation that has ever graced the face of the Earth! I support the military and will spend TRILLIONS more to make sure there isn't a man woman or child in any corner of globe that does not quake in terror at the thought of the ol' U.S.A. raining "freedom" down upon their heads.(thunderous applause) The problem as I see it is that we the people hate facts and love having sunshine blown up our ass. This country is willfully ignorant, and morally bankrupt.
Again I am sorry for my pessimism, but I am growing weary of all this.

I have always thought the actions of men the best interpreters of their thoughts.
John Locke

i gotta

Agree with ya.

'Peace is a powerful message.' Ron Paul

I don't agree

Libertarianism is not the great thing that some here try to make it out to be. Libertarians want there cake and eat it too. What we need in this country is TRUE Conservatism and not the fantasy libertarianism that so many here espouse. Unfortunately Conservatism in politics is dead and has been for quit a while. Yes, some politicians may talk about conservative issues but they do not uphold them and the closest we've had to a real conservative in a long time was Dr Paul and now he is gone.

Liberalatarianism is just what spelled it.

I always feel greatly insulted when someone labels me as

Libertarian because I support Ron Paul.

Because of all the negative connotations that goes with that label with the general electorate.
The voters have been told for 20 years or more that Ron Paul is a kook by both Dems and GOP.

Because it conjures up images of rampant idealism that does not take account of human nature.

Because it conjures up images that Libertarians are not practical people (most of them definitely are not).

Because it conjures up an unthinking cultish uncompromising image in ordinary voters.

Because I am a practical guy that tries to gain an understanding of human nature and the current views of the mass of the people.

I support 100% the Bill of Rights.
I am NOT a Libertarian.

The Founders were rather good at understanding human nature.
They put all sorts of checks and balances in to try and avoid the abuse of power.
They issued many warnings about the fragility of the Republic because men who seek power are usually venal.

"In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all -- security, comfort, and freedom. When ... the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free."

do you want morality police?

Within a free society, mind your own business and live your life.

"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good."
Thomas Paine

You have no idea what true Conservatism is

And your view of libertarianism is fantasy. You have grown up in a world with only liberalism and libertarianism is almost just the same and not only in the spelling.

I want no government

I can protect my own rights

"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good."
Thomas Paine

Try doing that in a Fema camp with no access to a lawyer

Having disappeared and no one knows where you are.

Good luck.

"In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all -- security, comfort, and freedom. When ... the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free."

That sounds like the doings

That sounds like the doings of government. Do I need government to save me from government?

"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good."
Thomas Paine

I think you meant.

Try doing that without the rule of law. I saw what the lack of a functioning judicial system is like in Russia in the early 90's. Closest thing to pure anarchy, but a train wreck (still is) without the ability to enforce contracts or protect property through legal means.

I asked a Russian friend how they enforced contracts without courts? He said "breathing exercises" meaning being deprived of breath until an a settlement was reached.

No thanks.

Thetis

Cyril's picture

Hey, I just remembered

Hey,

I just remembered, for what it's worth, I have this little write up of a while ago :

The Ron Paul Revolution Explained in Simple English

'HTH !

For Liberty.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

If you want to save our Country.

Voting for the Dems or the GOP is a wasted vote. Vote 3rd party. Keep both the Establishment candidates below 50% of the popular vote.

Well, it is hard to explain!

For those who have grasped the larger picture, it is hard to explain to those who have been comprehensively educated otherwise.

It is hard to explain to someone that they are the victim of a completely fabricated reality; that nothing is as they have been told and taught to believe.

We really do need to find a simple way to advocate any one or two undeniable aspects of the Liberty movement. But remember, the psy-ops department of government will use their media and staged events to counteract.

For example, with knowledge of how the federal reserve bank is quite literally the largest scam against the American people and people around the world..seems simple...but, to counteract that idea, "the constitutionality of the federal reserve" has been implemented into our nation's school's cariculum. Not to mention the notions about the federal reserve which are portrayed in the controlled broadcast networks and publications.

It is tough, be we keep pushing....I like the philosophy, of "give 'em enough rope and they'll hang themselves", also "there is might in right". With the criminal cartels' increased efforts to maintain control and shut out the liberty movement, they continue to expose themselves in ways that are hard to justify; many of the blind can't help but see it.

I tend to tell it like it is....."the nation's government has been taken over and is being run by criminals. They have control in almost all industries, have bought up all major broadcasting or popular websites, and use those media sources to completely lie to the public about everything".."turn off your television, steer away from yahoo, bing, msn, google.....and do some research, yes, america is under direct attack, but it is not by an outside enemy as presented, it is by subterfuge from within"....then onto the similarities of hitler and nazi germany with the national police force, the controlled media used to promote violence and fear, the staged events; directing us to more and more state control for security of the homeland. On and on....lol

you'd be surprised, I convert a lot of people or at the very least get them thinking. Fear does work.......sometimes have to fight fire with fire.

You are thinking like a Libertarian and not like an ordinary

voter.
You start talking about criminal cartels and they will think you are nuts.

You start telling them they are part of a fabricated reality and they will frogmarch you down to the nearest asylum. (Brandon Raub)

You try and tell them the Fed is stealing their money when they have been told for 100 years that the Fed is a force for good, most will not believe you.
The Fed has gone on a propaganda drive because of the awareness Ron Paul has recently raised.

KISS
Keep It Simple Stupid

Go for the zero income tax that would create jobs.
Go for the ending of tax on tips.
Simple things that will immediately resonate with most voters.

"In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all -- security, comfort, and freedom. When ... the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free."

I did it pretty easily

with 8 or so of Ron Paul's policies plus some "what's in it for me", in the language that would resonate much better with ordinary voters.
http://ian56.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/ron-pauls-case-for-nomin...

Plus some pertinent questions that might resonate with ordinary people to help wake them up.

Comments from Kenneth Visscher
I believe this is typical of any religion one finds .. when some philosophy clicks, one digs deeper and emerges months/years later having learned the lingo and have a hard time communicating to people who are at the beginning of their own journey. I guess I believe more like Albert Nock who understood his audience would always be a "remnant" in that the majority would never understand ... but that the minority COULD positively impact a nation / emerging republic just like ours was .. fueled by writings like Thomas Paine, inspired with stories of Patrick Henry the revolution took a life of its own and left these types in the dust. The majority was never for being against the British Empire .. and I don't think we can expect the same toward the American one either :)

"In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all -- security, comfort, and freedom. When ... the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free."

I like to keep it simple, in simple language that

Fits with their ideologies.

When speaking to people from the "left" I tell them that "Libertarians are Pro-Choice on everything"

When speaking to people from the "right" I tell them "Libertarians advocate for limited government across the board, because they believe if you allow big government in one area, it will inevitably spread"

Starting the conversation with language they relate to always makes the conversation go smoother and if it doesn't win a convert, at least makes them more open to the philosophy.

http://benswann.com/ es muy guapo! :)

Yep I am a firm believer in KISS

Let's face it, the average voter has the attention span of a gnat.

You start getting into technical arguments, or nebulous concepts such as Liberty, and they will fall asleep within 2 minutes.

The voters think they are already free.
Messages of Liberty or Freedom don't work.
The voters still think they live in "the land of the free".

The current politicians love that the average voter has the attention span and intellectual capacity of a gnat when it comes to politics.

"In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all -- security, comfort, and freedom. When ... the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free."

The Dems and the GOP are the same, the only real vote

that matters is a third party vote. Voting for the Dems or the GOP is a wasted vote, if you want change. Let the sheep split their vote between the Dems and the GOP. Our goal should be to make sure neither the Dems nor the GOP get 50% of the vote.

So you never want to see Ron Paul's policies

voted into government?
You don't even want to try.

Your comment is exactly the sort of thing I am talking about.

"In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all -- security, comfort, and freedom. When ... the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free."

Of course I do.

but, if our ideas are not put in front of the sheeps eyes, we are going nowhere in educating the public. Do you think RP is writing himself in? Really? I understand your point but it doesn't move the movement forward. But, I respect your decision.

Why do you want to try and put your ideas in front of the

sheeple's eyes?

They will not go for it.
You are too many steps ahead of what will work, taking into account human nature.

Why not put "what's in it for them" in front of them?
Like zero taxes.
They will go for that BIG time.

Why not put job and wealth creation in front of them?
They will go for that BIG time as well.

Once you have their attention you can explain what needs to be done to achieve it.
Then you can explain your ideas.

But they won't listen before you have told them "what's in it for them".
The campaign just proved that one.

That was why I was urging campaign HQ to change their style back in January.
To change it to "what's in it for them" - the ordinary middle class voters (and people who rely on tips).
The campaign didn't change it.
We would have done MUCH better if they had.

That was why I was urging the campaign to forget old brainwashed GOP.
And to concentrate on younger people and independents, which are least brainwashed demographic.

"In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all -- security, comfort, and freedom. When ... the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free."