16 votes

Johnson Says Troops Over There Are "Keeping us safe."

"Our thoughts and our gratitude are also with the amazing men and women of our military who are putting themselves on the line every day to keep us safe." - Gary Johnson, Sept. 11, 2011

http://race42012.com/2011/09/11/gov-gary-johnson-statement-o...

Kowtowing to the cruel lie that is keeping us in chains. No, Gary, blowing Iraqi babies to bits and bombing Afghan wedding parties is not keeping us "safe." This is a fundamental part of the Ron Paul Revolution.

What's next? We need to fight them there so we don't have to fight them here? Civilian casualties are unfortunate but unavoidable?

Political courage is for every day of the week, not for when no one is watching and waiting to jump down your throat. When millions were watching is exactly when truth-tellers like Ron Paul tell us that they don't hate us for our freedoms...they hate us "because we're OVER THERE!"

See: "blowback."

You cannot defend the war machine and be a Libertarian. War is the enemy of liberty.

""Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes. And armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few." James Madison

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apathy much?

my god, i hope the haters apathy is reaching the crescendo. it's getting old for those of us who are trying to move forward. go drink a beer or smoke a joint or meditate but please just loosen the fuck up. doom and gloom. doom and gloom.

Official Daily Paul BTC address: 16oZXSGAcDrSbZeBnSu84w5UWwbLtZsBms
#standwithrand

Its nice living

In ignorance isnt is MMJ.

ignorance is bliss

that's why i can't figure out how you're so pissed at the world.
either way, take your apathy elsewhere because it's not productive.

Official Daily Paul BTC address: 16oZXSGAcDrSbZeBnSu84w5UWwbLtZsBms
#standwithrand

You would know

Living in it, and all!

Im not pissed at the world, Im pissed at moron's like you trying to destroy EVERY SINGLE RON PAUL SUPPORTER"S Efforts over the last 5 years.

Apathy? My Apathy? Do you even understand the meaning of the word?

Wow, This is getting crazy, A definate concerted effort to silence anyone against Gary Johnson.

Good work.

Apathy? Seriously? Ive been here for over 5 YEARS! Just exactly how the fuck am I apathetic?

Please Explain

Morons!

What was his record as a two term Govenor of New Mexico?

Was he consistent to the principles that he campaigned on? It's not like he's a political unknown.

KONY 2012

He supported the Idea, IDIOT, Period.

Debbie's picture

Yes he did. You can see his remarks on that here:

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1219019580001/gary-johnson-reveal...

Also wants to keep Gitmo open: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRlGXuGHfrc

And good article in The Liberty Crier:
http://libertycrier.com/politics/ron-paul-or-gary-johnson-di...

As Ron Paul says, take a look and make up your own mind.

Debbie

His website says that all detainees in Gitmo

should have a fair trial and not be indefinitely detained.

I don't know about your other points .... yet.

"In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all -- security, comfort, and freedom. When ... the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free."

Is Ron Paul an idiot?

Ron Paul said this of the former New Mexico governor: “I think he’s wonderful and I think he’s doing a good job..."

Grasping at

Straws much Brent?

Debbie's picture

Of course Ron Paul is not an idiot. Maybe he is wonderful and

doing a good job, but RP said to take a look and make up your own mind. So you have to look and not just listen to the current rhetoric. Dr. Paul did not endorse anybody so I don't feel that it is any invalidation of what the Good Doctor said for me to take a look and make up my mind.

Debbie

Yes...

...don't let Gary's proposal to cut military spending by 43% (more than Ron Paul proposed) fool you. He's really a big-time war-mongering neocon. Evidence? Why just look at these platitudes he uttered on the 10th anniversary of September 11th. /sarc

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

It's not what you say in a press release or speech to

people who agree and when no one is paying attention. It's what you say to a stadium full of NASCAR dads who want war and have never been told the truth.

That is what Ron Paul does not shirk from. How dare Johnson offer him merely the VP spot. He can't reach this giant's shoes to shine them.

Release the Sandy Hook video.

Blah

I'll take a dishonest libertarian in office over an honest one at home.

You moralists aren't fit for politics. On the one hand, this is a shame, since it reduces our numbers. On the other hand, it means I don't have to care about your opinion, because you're careful to make sure it has no impact.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

People

with Morals, are not fit for politics?

Really? Could have fooled me, I thought that was the entire point.

"I thought that was the entire point"

...one can be the epitome of virtue alone in a room.

The point of politics, on the other hand, is to affect change.

In politics, the ends always justify the means, provided that the means are non-aggressive.

So I don't give a rat's ass whether some politician lies, cheats, gloats, insults, or generally behaves like a dirty rotten bastard provided he gets libertarian reforms done.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

I woudn't go so far as you

but at least you are coming from a realistic and pragmatic perspective and not from blind idealism.

In case some of the idealists hadn't noticed, we don't live in an ideal world.
And the great majority of the people aren't ideal citizens either.

I will take something a little distasteful in order to achieve an overall bigger win.

(I don't think that applies to Rand. It was not his endorsement that bothered me - he had already promised it.
It was the timing - the day before the Texas Convention and on Hannity to boot.
Rand has never explained why he did it then and didn't wait.
Ideally he would have waited until after Tampa, at the very least until after the last state Convention. He would have still kept his promise to endorse whoever was the GOP nominee.
What use is a speech vetted by Romney? Ron Paul was very plain on that one.
Now all the GOP retards think that Rand was always for Romney and is a "good" Republican, for endorsing a Fascist /Stalinist GOP nominee.)

"In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all -- security, comfort, and freedom. When ... the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free."

I dont agree

You can be pragmatic, and stick to your principels too, they are not mutually exclusive.

And as for Not living in an Ideal world, I believe that is because the Majourity, DO NOT be the change they want to see in the world!

Thats the whole point of Ron Paul and his Principled stance, "BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN THE WORLD"

If Ron Paul had of compromised through out his career, he would not have been able to inspire as many as he has.

Principles are Important. In my opinion, the most Important thing a person can have.

Ron Paul has been very principled and been pragmatic

in making the few allies that were available in Congress (mainly Kucinich).
Ron Paul does not agree with Kucinich on everything (very far from it).
But there is an alliance possible on Foreign Policy.

Ron Paul made his reputation by being principled.
He didn't tarnish it by allying with Kucinich on FP.
It was a way of achieving (a bit) better result.

It is now not unprincipled to ally ourselves with GJ.
Sure he is no Ron Paul.
But we agree on a lot of things.

One of our biggest (if not the biggest) problem is getting our message out to a wider audience.

Sometimes you have to go about things in a slightly different way to achieve better results.
That does not mean being unprincipled.
It means understanding your audience and opportunities better and who and how you are trying to persuade.

Publicity for Gary Johnson and getting him into the debates would increase public exposure to most of our message greatly.
I doubt at this late stage it can be done (getting gj into the debates).
But he is currently our best avenue for publicising the great majority of our message.
We could ask him to lay off the bits we don't like about him.
We could try and persuade him to change his mind about certain things.

When you are up against it, you have to think outside the box and be pragmatic / use common sense / come up with other ideas, to achieve better results.
What exactly is so unprincipled about that?

If you don't like him, don't vote for him.
But getting gj higher in the polls would do our cause good, because of the publicity we might get.

"In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all -- security, comfort, and freedom. When ... the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free."

I believe it

is unprincipled to support someone who supported KONY 2012.

That is a neocon agenda.

What you are saying to me is that you are willing

to see Fascist authoritarian rule come to pass in the US AND Kony to still go on.
As long as you can mount a protest by you that will never be heard by anyone but a handful against Kony and won't make a blind bit of difference.

That is where we part company.
But that applies to a lot of Libertarians.

That is why I could not in all conscience say I am one.

I don't believe one will EVER be elected - unless they have a strong practical/pragmatic streak.
You take dogma too far.

I am against lots of dogma's.
Marxism
Communism
Fascism
Catholicism
Neoconservatism
.......

All the above dogma's have killed people in their millions.

Libertarians are not the same.
But they don't want to do something practical so that something evil, like neoconservatism and Fascism is removed from the world.

Dogma's should be questioned.
Not slavishly followed.
It's a bit like questioning your own government or political party - most of the population cannot do it.

"In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all -- security, comfort, and freedom. When ... the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free."

You

are obviously uninformed regarding what Kony was all about.

Anyone who supported it is an ignorant moron, or a warmongerer, neither of which is worthy of voting for.

Have your cake and eat it too

What in the Sam hell are you all battling over? He said this he meant that. Blah blah blah. No one will ever be Ron Paul but if he's not available I would say the next best thing is gj. You cannot hardly ever find a spouse that will be perfect for all the needs and wants you have it will be almost impossible to find a politician that you will agree with 100% of the time. My gosh though do we need to blast the hell out of each other in the name of what Gary Johnson said about the troops. Or what he meant or the implied neocon agenda. My gosh can't we have civil dialogue without the my dads tougher than your dad argument...

Another pragmatist

There are too few on here.
I agree with you, but need to find out more about GJ to decide whether I support him or not.

Too many idealists parroting Libertarian dogma and too few clear thinkers on here.

"In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all -- security, comfort, and freedom. When ... the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free."

Just another Neocon

Nothing will change for the better with Johnson, Infact, A great way to absolutely DESTROY EVERYTHING we have worked for would be,

1) For Ron Paul supporters to back Johnson
2) Johnson is positioned by the Media to be likable and electable
3) Johnson wins
4) The Fed Crashes the Entire System
5) Media Frenzy blames Problems on Libertarian, Gary Johnson, Ron Paul and all of his "Crazy" supporters

Johnson to me is another Shill! he still has not proven otherwise in my opinion.

Ummm

"1) For Ron Paul supporters to back Johnson
2) Johnson is positioned by the Media to be likable and electable
3) Johnson wins
4) The Fed Crashes the Entire System
5) Media Frenzy blames Problems on Libertarian, Gary Johnson, Ron Paul and all of his "Crazy" supporters"

Didn't the same risk exist for RP? The risk that the crash would happen on his watch and he and libertarians would be blamed?

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

Difference is

Ron Paul actually knows what he is talking about!

And, Who knows, Maybe Bernake told Ron, this shit will be coming down next year, You dont want to be President then, maybe Ron saw some prvilidge info and has been working a plan around that. Maybe this was like Ron actually said, ALL about waking people up to the Corruption and Control over our lives, not so much the Presidency?

Perhaps.

This is why I will continue to push Ron Paul forever, He is the aveneue to get people to open their eyes!

Hmm...

You said:

"Nothing will change for the better with Johnson, Infact, A great way to absolutely DESTROY EVERYTHING we have worked for would be..."

And then you described that scenario where Johnson wins, economy crashes, and libertarians take the blame. I pointed out that the exact same argument could have been used against Ron Paul;s campaign for President: or any libertarian's campaign for any office, as incumbents always get blamed for whatever happens in their term.

And now you're response is...to back out of that argument. That's cool, I'm glad I could help you see its folly.

"Difference is Ron Paul actually knows what he is talking about!"

If you're saying Ron understands libertarianism better than Gary, I think that's beyond question. But that doesn't mean Gary is a total moron. He understands libertarianism well enough to be an able spokesmen for it in a Presidential campaign.

"And, Who knows, Maybe Bernake told Ron, this shit will be coming down next year, You dont want to be President then, maybe Ron saw some prvilidge info and has been working a plan around that. Maybe this was like Ron actually said, ALL about waking people up to the Corruption and Control over our lives, not so much the Presidency?"

...and maybe President Obama is Ron Paul in black-face and he's just waiting for the right time to reveal himself. Comon, this is speculative nonsense. Certainly it can't be any kind of argument against Gary Johnson.

"This is why I will continue to push Ron Paul forever, He is the aveneue to get people to open their eyes!"

When you say "push Ron Paul" what exactly do you mean? He's not running for office, so what exactly are you pushing him toward? What is the objective? Just to tell people about Ron Paul, show them videos and so forth? Well, I think that's a fine idea, but it leaves open the question of who you should support politically.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

You really are a

Dickhead arent you, I didnt back out of anything.

RON PAUL could educated People as President, allow competing currency and encourage us to do the Right things.

GJ being a Shill, and not knowing shit, will do ALL the wrong things, because that is what his HANDLERS will tell him to do. NO EDUCATION WILL TAKE PLACE UNDER JOHNSON, BECAUSE JOHNSON DOESNT KNOW WHAT TO TEACH.

There seems to be a whole bunch of people INTENT on missing the point in the arguements against Johnson and then trying to twist it around.

And by Pushing RON PAUL I MEAN EXACTLY THAT, RON PAUL, I WILL SPEAK ABOUT FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE!

BLOODY SIMPLE REALLY!

Why do people seem to have a hard time comprehending that? RON PAUL AND HIS PRINCIPLES WILL BE MY GUIDE TO LIFE.

EI The Principles of FREEDOM AND LIBERTY WILL BE MY GUIDE TO LIFE, and I will tell ANYONE I know about Ron Paul, and USE RON PAUL as an Avenue of discussion, I and others will make SURE THAT RON PAULS NAME IS SYNONYMOUS WITH THE FOUNDING FATHERS!

I had enough of these trolls for now, Ill be back later to reply to their ignorant posts.

Dickhead's Response

"GJ being a Shill, and not knowing shit, will do ALL the wrong things, because that is what his HANDLERS will tell him to do. NO EDUCATION WILL TAKE PLACE UNDER JOHNSON, BECAUSE JOHNSON DOESNT KNOW WHAT TO TEACH."

Well, for one thing, Johnson won't be elected President. That said, I'm fairly sure Johnson knows more about libertarianism than the average voter, which would suggest that he could teach them something in the course of his campaign.

"There seems to be a whole bunch of people INTENT on missing the point in the arguements against Johnson and then trying to twist it around."

Or perhaps the trouble is that the arguments against Johnson typically make no sense at all, and amount to some variation on "Ron Paul Or None At All" repeated often and at high volume as a substitute for thinking?

For instance:

"And by Pushing RON PAUL I MEAN EXACTLY THAT, RON PAUL, I WILL SPEAK ABOUT FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE! FUCKING SIMPLY REALLY! Why do people seem to have a hard time comprehending that? RON PAUL AND HIS PRINCIPLES WILL BE MY GUIDE TO LIFE. EI The Principles of FREEDOM AND LIBERTY WILL BE MY GUIDE TO LIFE, and I will tell ANYONE I know about Ron Paul, and USE RON PAUL as an Avenue of discussion, I and others will make SURE THAT RON PAULS NAME IS SYNONYMOUS WITH THE FOUNDING FATHERS!"

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."