192 votes

A call for unity between Paul supporters and Johnson supporters.

I have seen the war between Ron Paul supporters and Gary Johnson supporters and I think it is rather silly that people in this movement have such a hard time following Ron Paul's advice. It is pretty simple to me.

We can not force our goodwill on anyone, we can only set good examples and hope people wish to emulate us. --Ron Paul

My suggestion would be that if you support Gary Johnson, fine support him. That is what freedom is. If you support Ron Paul, fine. Most of us here do support Ron Paul and have for several years. If you support both fine, but lets stop eating our own.

The goal should be to grow the liberty movement not divide it. Great movements are always destroyed from within, not the other way around.

I have seen the arguments from both sides and many statements are misguided. The whole notion that some claim they are turned off on Gary Johnson because Johnson supporters are trying to cram Johnson down your throats is the same excuse where many called people that didn't support Ron Paul sheep because, those people claimed they wouldn't support Ron Paul because Ron Paul supporters tried to force Paul on them. Do you see how silly that argument is?

How can anyone force anyone else to support someone?

My suggestion would be if you are not going to support Johnson fine, don't result to name calling of Johnson supporters, this makes you no better than the people that did the same thing to Ron Paul that pisses us off. Talking to people in a civil manner goes a long way, insulting them is counter productive and will accomplish nothing more than to isolate people that may share many of the same things you support.

You may not like the people you are working with, they may not like you, but we are all supposed to be working towards the same goal. So why don't we start with the things we agree on first and worry about the rest later?

Michael Badnarik said this best: We agree with each other about 98% of the time on most issues but, we spend 98% of the time b!tching, complaining and arguing about the 2% we disagree on, this is why nothing gets done, and he is correct!

You don't like a post? Don't read it, it is easy to ignore posts and comments. You don't have to agree with people but you do need to find a way to work together to grow the movement and attempt to effect real change this country needs or we will accomplish nothing. Take the high road and let freedom work for a change.

For the record I have not given my support to Gary Johnson although I did spend some private time with him at Paulfest in Tampa because I was paulfest staff and had access to Gary. My vote is just that MY VOTE! I will not tell others what to do with their vote -- please don't tell others what to do with theirs. Set good examples and educate them in a civil manner, you will win more people over that way in the long and short term.

If we continue down this US vs THEM attitude we only divide our numbers even more. I prefer to follow Ron Paul's example of integrity and I hope you will as well.

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I don't take marching orders

I don't take marching orders from anyone and am not one to wait for an endorsement. I like to take the bull by the horns and prove things to myself. I have researched GJ and don't like what I see. I never implied that Paul was still trying to get on the nov. ballot, just reiterated what was stated by Paul on leno. However, he will be on MY ballot.


He said he was going to rest until 2016, where did you hear "stay in the race and keep plugging along"?

Mike G.

The "keep plugging along"

comment was on Leno, and it wasn't in response to a question about him staying in the race it was in response to a question about whether he'd be voting for Romney.

A War?

What are you talking about a War between Ron Paul supporters and Gary Johnson supporters for? A War? Maybe some disagreements or whatever is how I see it. Personally, I really don't care, I will vote for whomever I want, be it a write in or a candidate on the ballot.

We have enough wars going on, who needs this one.

make the Statement

The liberty movement has coalesced around Ron Paul. Unfortunately, politics is the venue for future success. Please accept this and act accordingly.

Politics necessarily involves compromise. Not compromise of principle – Dr. Paul has demonstrated as much over 30 years – but rather compromise of strategy and priorities.

Neither Paul nor Johnson will be elected this year. Yet let us use the 2012 election to make this Statement to the country and even to ourselves: WE ARE HERE TO STAY. The Statement must be quantifiable and reported in the media, or it fails to be stated.

No politician or leader – not even Dr. Paul – believes exactly what I believe or would do exactly as I would do. A vote for anyone other than oneself is a compromise of strategy and priorities – but not a compromise of one’s principles.

A write in vote for Dr. Paul will not be counted or reported. We can best make the Statement by voting for Gary Johnson, as imperfect as he may be. God bless Ron Paul.

All sound points

Thank you.

Bottom line in a few Months

Bottom line in a few Months Romney or Obama will be the next President of The Untied States of America....

Both parties will be pouring over the numbers... Trying to figure out what they did right or wrong. I would like to think that Romney regrets what was done in Tampa....

I really hated the Johnson supporters pushing him long before the convention... Now we have to face a very limited choice. As much as I hate to say it I'm leaning toward a Johnson vote. Not that I think he will win... I want my vote counted against the corruption of the two party system. To bad we can't all get behind him (as far as a vote) it would be a great way for us to see our numbers. (assuming the votes are not flipped)

Sad thing is the first sentence in this post!

I think the problem was more

I think the problem was more so that people view Johnson is trying to ride the Ron Paul train and use his supporters for success and publicity. He hasn't worked quite as hard as Dr. Paul has to get this train going.

When I took my first class learning

computer programming the first thing I was taught was simple- Why bother to do the work someone else has already done - just take their code and build on it.

I used to think that was stealing(and it may very well have been at the time) - then a year or so later OOP became all the rage - well guess what OOP is - it's taking good code already written so you can focus on growing your app - not redoing the same thing someone else has already done.

Now we have an app for everything. If we make GJ go back and start from the beginning - he will never grow. Better to let him take the work RP has done and build on it - then we might just get a third party app built.

But GJ is not making it

But GJ is not making it better. He is still weak on foreign policy. Cut all foreign aid to all countries but Israel? I don't think so! That tells me that he is still pandering to Israel and is more likely to be persuaded.

So your answer is

to cut off your nose to spite your face - ok.
I would much rather fight about the ONE remaining country to get aid than the hundreds that get it now - would be a little more focused in my mind.

I swear half the member here are planted by Romney - the only way you can logically even have this discussion.

RP is not in the race anymore- I am not taking my ball and pouting home - I will see about getting the one CLOSEST to my ideals elected.
What? He's not perfect?

No shit.

Also... You suggested he take


You suggested he take RPs work and grow on it. I was suggesting that he was not growing on it because of his weak stance on foreign policy. Then you rebutted by saying he's not perfect.

GJ's weak foreign policy will be his downfall with the Paul supporters. We are not convinced he is the answer. Sorry.

Israel is a huge influence on

Israel is a huge influence on our current foreign policies! Israel has some of the biggest lobbyists in Washington...that is why most politicians are hell bent on pandering to them! Look up the Israel Lobby and the US foreign policy. If we cannot get rid of our Israel problem then we will not get rid of our foreign policy problem.

wrong explanation of both oop

wrong explanation of both oop and gj.


Because Ron Paul isn't running 3rd party I would vote for Gary Johnson, because he is the closest alternative. I don't agree with those that say vote for Obama to prevent Romney getting in. This is the same kind of twisted logic you see in both parties.

The goal is to promote Liberty. Gary will keep the message going this election and help the movement continue to grow.

I've noticed some are not voting, some are voting for Obama to stop Romney and some are going to write Ron Paul in. Personally, I think all 3 would be a waste of a vote.. But that's just my personal opinion.

I agree! And if we can put

I agree! And if we can put the emotion aside for the moment and look at the facts, the Liberty movement is in a precarious position right now. Gary Johnson is the best, last chance we have to put a Liberty candidate into office. He may not be perfect, but he's the closest to what we want and I'll take the lesser of 2 goods over the lesser of 2 evils.

We have work to do

I like Gary, but he has to build his liberty perception a lot more. The last thing I want, is someone to represent a part of the movement incorrectly, and then we have to defend his positions for years. Hold his feet to the fire because he is an ally. There is no need to become his apologist, or his enemy. If he becomes our clay, we need to mold him and accept the opportunity while learning from the situation. Priorities, priorities. Don't let the Johnson debate turn into a distraction from everything else that we have to worry about.

I don't think its considered

I don't think its considered an attack to point out peoples positions the same way we did to every other candidate. Matter of fact, its our responsibility to point out controversial positions for those who are looking to support any person in question. Did Gary state he was willing to cut all foreign aid except for Israels?

Monetary Policy = Foreign Policy

Ron Paul has been the ONLY one explaining we have the crooked foreign policy we do because of the way our monetary policy was compromised 40 years ago. It is the reason Ron Paul got into politics in the first place. I have yet to hear Gary Johnson speak to this correlation between monetary and foreign policies. I have nothing against the Libertarian Party per se but Ron Paul and the rest of us are way bigger than the Libertarians and in fact the media no more so was able to marginalize Ron Paul by referring to Paul as 'Libertarian'. We own the Libertarians nothing and nobody would more so understand that than a Libertarian.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

Bingo! Garry Johnson is weak

Bingo! Garry Johnson is weak on foreign policy. Us Paul supporters understand how important foreign policy is and most of us will not budge on this issue. I will not support a candidate who panders to Israel. We will never fix our foreign policy/monetary problem if we keep pandering to Israel.

To the GJ supporters. Please look up the Israel Lobby and our foreign policy.

Your Whole Premise is WRONG

First of all, virtually all "Gary Johnson supporters" on this site ARE "Ron Paul supporters." We are the freedom movement, and some of us, like me, for example, have been at this for decades. Some on here even voted for Ron Paul when he ran in 1988, or have supported his Congressional campaigns even though not in his district (I first met Ron Paul when he was making friends and allies touring the Libertarian Party conventions).

There is no need whatsoever to CHOOSE between them. In fact, you don't even have to choose everything they stand for if you don't agree with everything. You don't even have to choose between them on the ballot, because only one of them will be on it.

When it comes to choosing sides, the choice is between freedom and slavery.

That said, you're correct that peace is the goal. We ought to be able to form coalitions and work together ("unity" might be a bit difficult).

What do you think? http://consequeries.com/

Ron Paul WILL be on my

Ron Paul WILL be on my ballot, I am making sure of it. Ron Paul has some long coat tails and who doesn't like a free ride? Johnson is where Paul was a decade ago, not many had heard of him, marginalized by the media and ignored. With the help of the internet, Paul's message got out and he inspired us to volunteer, donate, sign wave (google ron paul, who is ron paul). In my opinion, if Johnson was sincere he would stop riding Paul's coat tails and start inspiring.

What does that acheive?

Ron Paul can't win because he's not even actively campaigning.. I agree with you in sentiment, but Gary Johnson coming a strong 3rd will do more for the movement than voting for Ron Paul at this point.

And besides I think you are being disingenious to Gary.. He's been Libertarian for a LONG time and supported Ron Paul in 08 and showed his support even during this Republican primary. He doesn't share 100% of Ron Paul's take on libertarianism, but he's a darn sight closer than Romney or Obama ever will be and it might help people look into and join the Liberty movement. Which is whats going to help us all in the long run.

Johnson might have some

Johnson might have some libertarian leanings, but let's be honest. He has been a member of the republican party a lot longer than the libertarian party. He only joined the Lib party after he withdrew his bid for the rep presidential bid. I really could care less what party he belongs to, just wanted to point that out. I care more about his stances and philosophy of government, which he does not stand in line with most of the issues I hold dear. Stay vigilant on the war on terror, no thanks. Keep guantanamo open, no thanks. End all foreign aid, except to Israel, no thanks. NAFTA/CAFTA, no thanks. End the income tax, but replace it, no thanks. I could go on, but I won't. Sure, he might sound a little bit better than romney/obama, but that's like asking if I want one black eye or two.

And this post will just be

And this post will just be ignored and everyone will fall back to "but why, they are 99% equal"...

Add price regulations/fed to the list.

I agree! It's like voting for

I agree! It's like voting for the lesser of 3 evils. Not saying GJ is "evil" but he does seem like one whom could be persuaded...if you know what I mean.

How can anyone force anyone

How can anyone force anyone else to support someone?

One way would be to have a state delegation chairman announce that all of a state's delegates cast their votes for Romney without actually giving those delegates an oppertunity to vote or asking them who they wish to vote for.

Another way is by witholding credentials until a delegate agrees to vote for Romney.

Further still you can just ignore no votes while a pre-programed teleprompter tells you how delegates voted.

This guys name is Steve Parent.. He's the worst of the worst.

Him and his group at RonPaulTribune, Libertychat are connected with "Lawyers" for Ron Paul.. I believe they're also behind the whole information fishing expeditions in our earlier days here.

He's behind delegatetraining.com as well as hermancainforums.com.

The guy has a long criminal record dating back 15 years or so for scamming on numerous levels.

These guys are nothing but a criminal ring. He admitted he was behind delegatetraining.com so I checked it out based on others information I found out that his "sister" "Connie Parent" was listed as owner.. I took that address listed and did a search on that which came up with numerous other sites as well as a guy linked to that address too. That was Steve Parent.. The search also pulled up a criminal records hit.

I'm all for forgiving people of their transgressions but when the behavior is habitual... Nope. Only a sucker continues after that.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.


"Westfall" is not Steve Parent. "Westfall" is a delegate from Arkansas.

Oh... no dummy.. I was talking to him about Steve Parent.. -----

----> (Neverquit) Not accusing him of being the guy.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.