12 votes

Should Gary Johnson Step Down and Offer Ron Paul the Top Slot So We All Can Win?

Regardless of our emotional attachment to the candidates the logic is iron-clad and irrefutable. Ron Paul has a standing offer to be Johnson's VP, according to Lawyers for Paul's Richard Gilbert, but he is not interested. Without Paul on the ticket the Libertarians poll at 1% like always. With Paul on the ticket, who is now polling at 18%, both Paul and Johnson are instantly in the debates. The media smells a possible upset because, no matter how much the try to ignore him, Paul can fill a UCLA-sized stadium with 10,000 people anytime he wants.

The media has its orders to ignore Paul, but they don't like to feel left out.

Now the race is a three-way race with neither side being able to call Paul/Johnson a spoiler because they draw from the conservatives and Obama's defected anti-war left. Those kids at Strauss Stadium are NOT Romney supporters. Without Paul, they'll probably go for Obama.

This question of stepping down should be at the top of Johnson's upcoming town hall. Say Jim Grey, a grown-up and sensible man, likes the logic and is named for future Attorney General.

The Paul/Johnson Revolution grows. Now everyone REALLY wants to know what all the fuss is about, and we spread the word of sound money, the Fed's relationship to wars, ending the bail-outs, and restoring our beloved Constitutional rights.

It would require a meeting of the candidates and the LP national committee to change the batting order "for cause," according to the by-laws. Gary Johnson stepping to on-deck would constitute "cause."

LP registration skyrockets 10,000 percent in one week.

We spend the next four years taking over the Republican Party for a Ron run in 2016. It would be up to Gary if he wants to come along. They will treat us fairly because WE will now be the Republican Party. They can't use the rules against us because WE will be making the rules. If the Neocons hardliners who don't like what has happened to the party do not sit down when they have had their fair say and are interfering with the agenda, we will ask them to leave. If they do not leave, we will have them arrested.

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Who cares? There are no LP candidates who have a remote

chance of winning. Wouldn't all of them gladly sacrifice "zero" for a real shot at the White House with Paul at the top of the ticket? The specious and ridiculous nature of your arguments shows you are not LP. You are GOP.

Release the Sandy Hook video.

Call them all and Write THEM A CHECK then.

Pay them back for all the hard work you're pissing away, for the donations they gave, for the petitions they signed.

Just who the F*ck do you think you are to demand this of the LP?

YOU LOST.

WE ALL DID.

Now you want to compound the damage?

It isn't giving away "zero" it's giving away BALLOT ACCESS.

Are you absolutely f*cking clueless?

Yes I'm cursing, because what you are demanding is OBSCENE.

You are intent on scorched Earth.

You know your plan will destroy the LP and you don't give a damn.

Look - go write him in.

No one is stopping you.

Leave the rest of us alone.

oh come on, ron paul being on

oh come on, ron paul being on the ballot for the libertarian party, especially after his most recent fame, would be the greatest thing to happen to them and they would be fools to not take up the offer. besides, what libertarian wouldn't support ron paul?

The greatest thing to happen to them?

I don't think you read what I wrote.

Take a state, I don't know each individual one's rules, but let's say "Oceania" for argument then:

Oceania has a vibrant LP affiliate. They have a tough ballot access law and have to gather 12,000 petition signatures every four years so their candidates can be placed on the ballot for the next four. They have to get these signatures within a 60 day window. They can't start too early,and they all have to be in by a certain time. Now, reality as it is, they really need to collect about 20-25,000, because anywhere from 30-50% are going to be invalidated by the people in charge of validating them. (there are various reasons for this, usually the fault of the petition gatherer, or the signer themselves)

This costs money. It can't all be done by volunteers. Usually it will cost about $1-2 per signature - good or not.

So that's $25,000-$50,000 the Oceania LP has to raise every four years JUST TO GET ON THE BALLOT.

Now, part of this is getting their Presidential and Vice Presidential Candidates listed.

But you see, the petition that is circulated HAS to have the REAL names of those candidates on each page of the petition where signatures appear. You can't use "place holders" and you can't gather signatures for a "generic" LP candidate.

So, you better know who your nominee is before petitioning starts, or the whole effort is pointless, everything will be invalidated.

Now, you've spent countless hours getting volunteers to collect some signatures, but mostly they've been working their tails off to raise money to pay professionals to do it because you have more success that way.

And, you've got all these local and state candidates you recruited that are reinforcing the message of liberty put out by the top of the ticket.

These candidates have spent hundreds, thousands, or tens of thousands of their own money campaigning for many months now. (if you're in the LP, you have to start earlier, because the media doesn't give you free mentions like the other guys)

There are tons of volunteers that have worked hard on all these campaigns too.

And then, 7 weeks before the election, a group of people supporting Ron Paul, whom you like, and whom you wish was your LP Presidential candidate, but have accepted that he isn't, are going to now try to swap GJ out and put Ron in his place.

But there's a problem.

That's illegal in Oceania.

But the LNC has already made it a done deal. The swap has occurred. Johnson stepped down and they nominated Paul in an "emergency" "for cause."

But Oceania law doesn't give a rats ass about your desire to swap candidates, or your "emergency" even if it was real or unavoidable.

So now, since GJ is NOT the candidate anymore - you lose ALL of your ballot access.

Now, all those down ticket candidates, are instantly booted off the ballot - they are candidates no more.

All that hard work and money - down the drain.

All that effort and money to get on the ballot - vaporized.

Because now, the LP in Oceania is not on the ballot anymore.

Sure, it might still be on the ballot in SOME other states, but there are others too with similar laws like Oceania. And there is NO LP ticket on the ballot in those now either. And there's now wasted money and time and effort, and pissed off volunteers and candidates in ALL of these states so affected.

So you see, you really don't understand what you are asking here.

It isn't about people WANTING Ron to be on their ballot.

It's that it IS TOO LATE NOW.

He can't be.

And if they try, not only will he NOT be in some states with such laws, but this will cost those states their ballot access, some for two years, some for FOUR.

Ron Paul is well aware of this fact that so many here on DP can't seem to understand, and I'd contend, even if all the other stars aligned and he changed his mind, he still wouldn't pursue this course for this very reason.

WHY? Why would Ron Paul alienate and piss off hundreds if not thousands of liberty supporters and liberty candidates and cost them their ballot access just so he can pick it up in a few other states and STILL not be on enough to win or get into the debates?

Try doing some homework next time and realize - actions have consequences.

your 'logic' is risible

better to 'piss off' a scant few diehard big 'L' Libertarians than tens of thousands of Ron Paul/Liberty Movement supporters.
gj has absolutelt NO integrity and PROVES he is only out for himself by NOT offering his slot to Ron Paul. As I wrote before, if gj has a shread of decency in him, he would step down so Ron Paul could step up. You seem to forget that gj would have been running AGAINST Ron Paul if Ron Paul got the GOP nomination. I wonder if Michael would have allowed all you gj fanatics post your screeds here had Ron Paul not been cheated out of the win? I woke up and have no taste for sloppy seconds. When will you?

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

I care not for GJ. I'm not a GJ fanatic.

You can't provide one SHRED of evidence to prove anything remotely resembling that.

This isn't about him. It's about the LP activists and other candidates who are going to get the shaft to scratch your ego.

It isn't a "scant few" diehards.

I'm sure the RP supporters outnumber the LP activists. I don't doubt that.

But if the RP supporters are pissed off, it isn't because GJ is standing in the way. They should be pissed off because they were cheated.

They should be pissed off because they were WRONG in their strategy. There are those of us who tried to warn you guys. But you would hear none of it.

You didn't manage to take over the GOP, so now you want to burn down the LP?

Preibus pissed in your cornflakes so now you want to take a sh*t in our oatmeal?

Go F*ck yourself.

Yes, Yes, Yes!

( : Johnson cannot win as president, only Ron Paul can.

A.Hansen

60 days to the election . . . .

http://timeanddate.com/date/durationresult.html?m1=9&d1=7&y1...

It is 60 days from the start date to the end date, but not including the end date

Or 1 month, 30 days excluding the end date

Alternative time units
60 days can be converted to one of these units:
5,184,000 seconds
86,400 minutes
1440 hours
8 weeks (rounded down)

I question the sincerity behind the OP

Sue4theBillofrights said earlier, "You guys aren't fooling the DPers. This is an open hijack which should be stopped. We will write in Ron Paul or go for the Constitution Party. No vote for someone who says slaughtering Iraqi babies is "keeping us safe."

Now she's saying Ron Paul should pick Johnson for VP? She can't even be honest about Gary Johnson's positions. Suggesting that Johnson supports slaughtering Iraqi babies to keep us safe, when in fact, Gary Johnson opposed the Iraq war from the beginning, is as ridiculous as it is honest.

No

Romney should step aside.

DISCLAIMER:
http://youtu.be/2n34eeXWjUQ

Fancy Shmancy Fine Print:
http://youtu.be/plIH98Kxu58

This is my prayer

We know that God hates wickedness!
Romney IS wicked! Obama is wicked!

Ron is a God fearing, humble man who desires to do that which is right.

I am praying that the Lord will remove Romney from any possibility to run for president.

We are to pray about everything, and therefore I am praying for the cause of saving of life of possibly millions, for peace and liberty as God has given us, and to give all the praise to Almighty God who alone can now give us the victory.

We are still at our Red Sea!

Lord God, hear our prayer!

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

maybe there is a greater

maybe there is a greater lesson to be learned by us by ron paul not being president.

think about it.

Absolutely there is!

God chastises His children (just as a loving father would his children), and He punishes the wicked for their wickedness.

The Bible tells us that the nations that forget God shall be turned into hell. We are surely on that road.

We are also told that when we come to our witts end and at last cry out for His mercy, He hears us.

I am not fully discouraged really because I know Him who knows all things, and has complete control of all this. We shall get whatever He gives us.

I just keep praying because I know He cares!

Thanks for your comment my friend!

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

precisely

{ Pennsyltucky ... I love that place! } = tubing the Shenandoah or tripping the Rappahannock or kayaking the lower Potomac or floating the New ... !

Yes!

If we want Paul to be president, that is the only way to do it this election year. A Paul/Johnson ticket would win big time! For all you out there talking about the rules, we just proved there are no rules in this game, just ask Romney and the GOP.

I think Ron Paul did the

I think Ron Paul did the right thing in exposing the GOP corruption. That paved the way for a 3rd party run.

At this point it does make sense for Johnson/Paul to team up. If all Paul supporters did vote Johnson, there still wouldn't be enough numbers for a win.

Paul would bring 18% polls bringing them into the debates. IF for the sake of arguement, the polls rise to 34% that is still not enough. Polling 34% thinking that is enough to win only considers Obama and Romney splitting evenly the other 66%. They will not. Some states will poll one higher than the other. At 34% we would gain nothing. If for example Obama won California with 35%, those 55 electorial votes go to him. So we need Johnson/Paul campaigning to pull votes from Obama and Romney. At best, we would get no candidate reaching the 270 electoral votes needed to win. In that case we would have a truely constitutional election. It would look like this.

Article 2, section 1, clause 3

"3: The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; A quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice President."

At that point, Johnson/Paul can win.

So in my humble opion, the Libertarian Party and the Liberty Movement sould team up under a Johnson/Paul ticket.

For Liberty

Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

John Adams

That clause has been amended by the 12th amendment.

Read that one instead.

And how do you expect Paul/Johnson to win if the election is in the House?

The House State delegations are majority controlled by Republicans.

They are going to vote for Romney, not Paul.

And if Paul/Johnson comes in 3rd, then Johnson is not considered by the Senate for VP.

Even if Paul managed to win a House vote, which he won't, he'd be stuck with either Biden or Ryan as VP.

Congratulations... you are

Congratulations... you are the one millionth poster to post something on Paul running 3rd party... Let's see if we can reach one billion by the end of the month..

If you disagree with me on anything you are not a real libertarian...

It's because of statements

It's because of statements like these from Doug Wead:

"Consider this, if Ron Paul were the Libertarian candidate right now, some polls have him winning 17% of the vote, which would land him in the national debates and change the course of the country.

Bottom line? I haven’t decided yet but I would like to hear your opinions, without profanity please. Or join the discussion"

Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

John Adams

The problem is it is too late to run.

I don't know why that is so hard and difficult for people to grasp.

There are deadlines that are passed.

There are only two ways around that:

#1 - file as a write-in candidate. This requires Paul's consent and some deadlines have already passed. Some are doable, but in no case can he get on enough ballots to win. Thus he will definitely not be in the debates as that is one of the criteria.

#2 - sub him in for Johnson on the LP ticket. - Here there are serious legal issues. This will cause the LP to outright lose some access in states, not just for the Presidential slot, but ALL of the candidates in that state. It would decimate the LP to do this, not to mention, it would involve breaking LP rules. I thought we were against breaking the rules in order to win?

I tried to warn everyone back in the spring.

The last chance to get the LP nomination was to drop out and do so in early May.

The absolute last chance to get on period as something else, was early June.

Since no one bothered to take any action, not anyone in the grass roots, or the Paul campaign - the deadlines have now passed and the path is now closed.

Thus, IT IS TOO LATE.

We've said it dozens if not hundreds of times here on the DP and no one would listen - AFTER TAMPA IS TOO LATE.

I think it's pretty clear that all you purported GJ supporters

are really GOP operatives. Any LP person would be drooling at the idea of possibly winning.

What you say only makes sense if the GOP is just using Johnson here to split the Paul vote off harmlessly into LP, rather than being embarrassed with write-ins. You promote the LP BUT NOT ENOUGH FOR IT TO WIN. hmm.

Release the Sandy Hook video.

That's a bizarre comment

The GOP benefits from Republican voters being syphoned off to Johnson??

Why is Romney trying to keep Johnson off the ballot?

I'm in the LP and I want to win. What I don't want to do is see

my ticket off the ballot because you are an idiot and can't understand basic simple laws.

If GJ steps down and Paul is replaced by the LNC, then there will BE NO LP SLOT on the ballot in my state.

Thankfully, here, this doesn't affect other races. But in some states, it does.

So all those people running for state or local office, or Congress will now be off the ballot.

All those people who gathered petition signatures, all those thousands, tens of thousands of dollars spent to GET ON the ballot will be WASTED and they'll lose that ballot access.

All the money those candidates spent campaigning so far - down the drain.

Why?

Because you are clueless and don't do your homework, and your ego is writing checks your butt can't cash.

Any attempt to demand or even politely suggest the LP swap Paul and GJ is to advocate the demise and decimation of the LP, pissing off thousands of fellow liberty activists in the process.

Not no, but hell no.

IT IS TOO LATE.

Where were you in May or April to convince Paul to seek the LP nomination?

Hunh?

Why are you trying to destroy the LP now since you failed taking over the GOP?

What did the LP ever do to you?

LOL

You obviously don't understand how the process works. Until you do: shutty.

Take what we have and move forward. Stop with the pie in the sky crap. Find a liberty candidate in your district to get behind. If there isn't one, run yourself. If you don't want to, get on committees and begin steering them in a Liberty direction whether they like it or not.

Eric Hoffer

LOL

And I just realized that this post has Gilbert's name on it.

Now I'm actively laughing at anyone that accepts that trollbait's word. Gilbert HOSED Dr. Paul and walked all over his coattails. He's not even a Paul supporter. He never donated a dime to the campaign, and a homeless wino who's seen 2-5 episodes of Law and Order could've handled the "lawsuit" better than he did. The man is an embarrassment and merely used Dr. Paul's name to further his own exposure. If I had my way, he'd be in the stocks and we'd have a fundraiser for liberty candidates called, "Beat the Lying Sack of Crap With a Stick for a Dollar!" I'd be hoping to "hit" a million dollars with one event.

But, now that I see the source of this half-witted, inept, and not to mention RUDE idea, I have a better idea of how someone thought this was a good idea.

Eric Hoffer

No, because he will NEVER give up that slot. He wants to run.

No, because he will NEVER give up that slot. He wants to run. He wants it bad. And he doesn't care whether RP's supporters will accept him in the VP slot.

That said, I'm still voting for him... because he's neither Willard Obama or Barack Hussein Romney.

"Cowards & idiots can come along for the ride but they gotta sit in the back seat!"

Paul should have gone third

Paul should have gone third party (Independent) instead of chasing delegates once it was obvious the GOP had their guy picked. He could have preached Liberty on a national level (not just at the GOP primary level).

It's too late in the game.

The deadline has already passed for filing to be included on the ballot in most States. Gary is already on the ballot in all 50.

Ignorance. You are talking about an independant run

they are 2 different things.

Release the Sandy Hook video.

See my comments above. It is your ignorance that is mind

boggling.

And that makes this little comment of yours quite ironic.