108 votes

Will Defecting from the GOP Help Ron Paul's Supporters Take It Over?

Over the last year, many of Paul’s supporters have claimed that the GOP can’t win without them. That’s either a threat or a promise. As any parent knows, neither should be made emptily.

Following all of the shenanigans against them throughout the Primary season, and the RNC’s decision in Tampa to alienate them completely, Paul’s supporters have been considering how to vote in November.

Although most of them would like nothing more than to write his name in, they know that in most states, such write-in votes would not be counted, so as a statement of principle or protest, they would be rather ineffective, however satisfying they’d be to cast.

Therefore, I recently polled the 13,000-strong community of Blue Republicans, all Ron Paul supporters, to find out for whom they intended to vote for President.

An overwhelming 66% said they would be voting for Gary Johnson – the Libertarian candidate who shall be the only candidate other than Obama and Romney on the ballot in every state (absent yet more GOP mafia tactics). Sixteen (16) percent will be writing in Ron Paul, even though most don’t expect their vote to be counted, and Romney will attract the votes of a negligible 6%. (Margin of error +/-4%.)

These results may have serious implications for November’s election and signal the real possibly of an exciting shift in the trajectory of American politics.

The liberty movement is united in its belief that America’s two-party system, rather than a single party alone has brought America to crisis. Its members understand that those issues of agreement between the parties are much more important than are any issues on which they traditionally disagree.

There are myriad examples. Both parties support a monetary system that systematically moves wealth away from productive earners to a financial elite that operate under special government license; both parties favor cronies with well-paid lobbyists; both support a militaristic foreign policy that leads to loss of innocent life in countries from which we are not threatened; both parties have worked hard to eliminate the first, fourth, fifth and tenth amendments of your Bill of Rights through, for example, the Patriot Act, the National Defense Authorization Act and FinCEN (look it up), to name just a few.

The duopoly has for decades ensured that when the partisan Elephants and Donkeys agree on an issue, the people have no way of democratically acting on their own interests at the ballot box. This used to be the case because it was impossible for any third party to receive enough votes to influence the outcome of an election or even the flavor of politics that would follow it.

But today, things may be different. The liberty movement, two million of whom voted for Dr. Paul in the Republican primaries, is now a large, politically active and unusually coherent political force. Many of its core themes are consistent with much of what the Republicans say they stand for, but have arguably not acted on since Eisenhower retired to his farm.

Every presidential election since Reagan has been won by a margin of no more than 8.5%. That translates to about 11 million votes today.

For all I know, there may well have been 11 million people in this country who would have preferred a more pro-liberty, pro-Constitution, anti-cronyism, anti-militarism, smaller-government president to the guy who actually won in all of those elections. Indeed, on the two occasions a non-establishment candidate, Ross Perot, campaigned with full media coverage, his vote exceeded this 8.5% - and that was without benefiting from an organic and passionate political movement with a well-defined philosophy.

More importantly, right now, millions of Paul’s supporters who are against the status quo have an even deeper revulsion of the party that should embrace them, the GOP, than of the other party whose politics are even more antithetical to their own. The RNC’s disenfranchisement of Paul’s supporters have made large numbers of them feel in their gut that the “lesser of two evils” is really more “evil” than “lesser”, and a vote for the Republicans would be something like buying a “thank you” gift for the man who just burgled your house.

Is eleven million impossible? That rather depends on how many Ron Paul supporters there really are.

Despite the fact that a significant minority of Paul’s supporters feel that differences between their man and Johnson are show-stoppers, a large showing for Johnson could have some of the significant practical effects that they have been seeking all along.

First, it would help expand the liberty movement’s rEVOLution by getting it televised – at least, as a discussed statistic on the news shows on election night. That’s important because the rest of the country is awaiting proof that the liberty movement has the size and the wherewithal to impose itself on the mainstream.

No revolution in a country with such a dispersed population as the USA will likely be successful without being televised: because the beaming of a thing into every living room is the only way the people who are sitting in those living rooms – its non-participants – will really believe it’s happening. A political or cultural revolution changes a society only if it is visible and dramatic, for then people find that their old ideas no longer enable them to make sense of what is happening around them or, at least, make them curious enough to see what all the fuss is about.

A large Johnson vote beamed into American homes on 6 Nov. may do more to get people Googling his views and seriously considering the possibility of something other than the two-party system than any campaign ads he can make or money he can spend. And if his vote exceeds the margin of victory of the winner, and the pundits point out that Ron Paul’s following is mostly responsible, the Paulites will have ceased to be politically marginal, by definition.

Second, a large Johnson swing could hugely boost Ron Paul’s supporters in realizing one of their greatest political ambitions - a takeover of the GOP. Ron Paul has said – and proven in the last year – that the weakness of our democracy is such that working within a Republicrat party allows people to have a much larger platform and affect many more minds. If Gary Johnson does really well as a third-party candidate in November, it will likely be because Ron Paul didn’t run as one.

A Romney loss in November by less than the Johnson vote could force the GOPowers-that-be to consider a leader in 2016 who is credible with Constitutional voters who like their individual liberties.

As of now, the obvious beneficiary of such an outcome would be Rand Paul. Some in the liberty movement have never quite forgiven him for endorsing Mitt Romney, but that is probably to mistake a man’s methods for his principles and to take too lightly the importance of having an insider for an ally. Politics is a place for principles - not purism.

Saying Rand isn’t broadly pro-liberty because he endorsed Romney is like saying Obama isn’t broadly progressive because he has not collectivized farms. To both claims, the appropriate response is simply, “Look at everything else he’s done”. And most importantly, in supporting Romney, Rand kept a promise he made when he ran for Senate in Kentucky. That promise won him the support of the party that put him in the Senate, where, among other things, he defeated legislation that would have enabled the indefinite detention of Americans found innocent in a court of Law. Keeping one’s word is justification for anything that does no harm. When it does good, all the better.

But the ultimate justification for Rand’s approach would of course come be his presence on the inside when the party realizes it needs a liberty-focused Constitutionalist to lead its makeover after a few months of pondering defeat.

Very Sun-Tzu: “He who is prudent and lies in wait for an enemy who is not, will be victorious.”

If not Rand, then others: politicians support what is becoming more popular so that they may become more popular. If a large turn-out for Gary Johnson reveals that that civil rights are growing in popularity with the speed that the main parties are losing theirs, then all those peace-loving liberty fans who have worked so valiantly to take over positions in their county and state GOP may find that in a few years they’ll be able to vote for someone in their own party with a completely clear conscience.

And that would be a rEVOLution, indeed.




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Voting for Third Party

We all have to realize that in order to win the Presidency, we need to have the electoral college votes in order to do so, Gary Johnson, Virgil Goode, etc, will not win the Presidency, since they will not even come close to winning enough electoral college votes in order to succumb the establishment Dems and Repurblicans, Thus we only have two choices, Now I live in New York, it makes no difference if I vote Romney, since it is a heavliy Democratic state which Obama is a guaranteed win, thus voting third party I can make a statement. Since knowing Obamas policies, I will not vote for Obama, since I know that in this direction, this country will definitly go bankrupt, at least wirh Romey, he has already stated that he will replace Bernanke, which is a start,

As a Liberty Minded person, or as I always called myself, a strict Constitutionalist, it is the Senate and House that we need to replace, irregardless of who wins the Presidncy, The Congress can control the President on a short easy, by creating a budget, and limiting the money to the President so he would not be able to run wild as Obama is today,

The movement needs to get out of the GOP's shadow.

We need look no further than Chief Campaign Strategist Jesse Benton leaving the movement and joining forces with establishment neocon Mitch McConnell. Who "infiltrated" who?

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

I just have the

feeling the movement needs to move on on its own, outside of this political reality where the promises, platform and personality of the candidate do not matter. It is too easy to get tricked. Just remember how Bush won as a peace candidate, advocating a humble, no-nation-building, foreign policy.

Don't waste your time trying to be right, spend it trying to get better

Certainly agree

that the GOP will likely lose without our support. But, we also should stay involved in the party and working the local/state levels so that we can change the flawed politics of America.

I was recently told the Revolution is a Myth in the Republican Party. Really? I expounded on it and how we actually have won here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr1LaHw7iR0

-Qadoshyah Fish
Oklahoma Parking Lot Patriot
http://libertyliveblogteam.wordpress.com

Great article.

I agree with you i will vote Gary Johnson. all though i will never vote for any liberty person (Rand) who aided on the side of the Republican mafia. the Republican party is done. its time to come home to the Libertarian party.

Not voting for Romney is NOT leaving the GOP.

If all of the GOP candidates EXCEPT Romney had great success, the message to the GOP would be even clearer.

Electing as many GOP candidates as possible (excepting the very worst of the neocons) in the face of a Romney defeat would make it clear that the ringleader of the Tampa massacre was our target. It would also do as much as possible to mitigate the damage done by a second Obama term.

Those of us who are working to educate and then rejuvenate the GOP need all the credibility and leverage we can get.

******************************
The Virtual Conspiracy

come back to the Libertarian Party.

The Republicans are done. be a Libertarian not a republican. they have kicked sand in our face how many times? and you know what is even worse (Rand) was a part of it. and Ron Paul remains silent about it.

Gary Johnson 2012

Libertarian Party - a security blanket?

I have a little experience with some people in the Libertarian party at my local level.

A national view is - for Bob Barr to be nominated in 2008, what is supposed to lean me to the LP. I had to vote Baldwin because the LP was on par with the dems and gop.

Locally, I noticed over the last four years, that there was no involvement to unify in political process activism when I made contact. An excuse given would be - "no entangling alliances." Seriously. It made me believe that being involved in the LP was because it was a security blanket to keep away from the "friction and thuggery" of the bad people (GOP). It came across like the LP was a safe haven, like being a computer activist.

continue reading - http://www.dailypaul.com/254290/libertarian-party-a-security...

I don't think so

I really think the only way they will get any message is folks showing up to the central committee meetings and kindly telling them, putting the thoughts in writtng, asking for a resolution..

I don't like what the RNC did, no one on my committee is impressed, but no one wants Obama either, at least with Romney we empower our local seats.

You know the GOP just GAINED huge in new seats from Ron paul registration and Palin's folks are stepping up to bat and taking OUR seats while we "protest" Romney giving TPTB exactly what they want: Obama. We're being played and I hope we can take the loss, I mean Ron paul never had the numbers to win anyways.. so let's get back in the game with MORE people.. this whoe GJ is a red herring... truely a shame and not about liberty at all.

Love to you and Mrs Spacehabits.

Thanks Granger,...

I think of the Libertarian Party as a reservation for those of us who can't stomach REAL politics. Or maybe its a nursing home.

Our opponents occupy a strategic fortress on a hill. Yeah it stinks to go in there to root them out. But choosing instead to go play with our friends on the beach and calling THAT victory is delusional.

******************************
The Virtual Conspiracy

Excellent Analogy space

Well said.

I am getting increasingly weary and wary of the bomb throwers advising more bomb throwing.

Does an endless game of Tit for Tat achieve anything?

"You are a den of vipers and thieves."

I mean to rout you out!

-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us

-The door is wide open, anything can slither in

The GOP has dissed RP and any future RPs and supporters

with their revised convention and delegate rules. They need to get some respect back for average voters instead of only for Party hacks. No way am I voting GOP because the GOP means more of the same ole neo-cons and wars and spending that caused our 2008 economic predicament.

For a Johnson vote to be effective

it has to demonstrate that it is large enough to damage the Republican brand in such a way that they will be forced to redefine themselves. Romney has to lose big... I'm thinking double digits. I'm thinking that our support toward Johnson will pull more R than D votes. With the RNC weakened, it should be easier to elect liberty minded candidates to the lower levels and help us build a stronger strategy for a Ron or likely Rand run in 2016.

I read the platforms and the on I'm most comfortable with is Johnson's. A vote for Johnson is a vote of no confidence in the R and D with the worst case scenario being that Obama will win re-election. I figured that after what Romney did to us, that became unavoidable and for that an example should be made by causing would could be the largest margin of lose in an election without us having to support the incumbent. Support prior to that might even put Johnson on the debate stage with Romney and Obama which might even make it interesting to watch.

Just saying.

Gary Johnson would be the

Gary Johnson would possibly be the best choice for those less concerned about getting out of the various undeclared wars, and want to get out only of Afghanistan. Virgil Goode perhaps would be best for antiwar folks. Governor Romney would be better for those who want to bomb everybody in sight, and Obama for those who like to pretend they are antiwar but really want to bomb everbody in sight.

http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/issues/foreign-policy

Virgil Goode??

The guy who voted for the Iraq War, sanctions on Syria, sanctions on Iran, sanctions on Libya, War on Terror, Patriot Act, warrantless surveillance....
I hear he's "changed" now that he's trying to take Ron Paul's mantle. Wonderful, I'm sure he's ever so sincere.

Oh, OK, then we should pay no

Oh, OK, then we should pay no attention to anyone's platform if their views have been altered to gain new constituencies. Is that what you're saying? On that assumption, no one can ever vote for any candidate except Ron Paul, and the whole idea of representative democracy will have to be abandoned when Dr. Paul retires from politics.

Actually, now that I think about it a bit more, it really doesn't matter if Goode's or Johnson's platforms are sincere, because neither of them is going to win. They both do us a service in that they both state a platform, whether sincere or not, and our votes register our support for one or the other platform.

This does not make

Much sense, I was sitting right beside GJ at Winthrop during his speech. He wants to get our troops out of everywhere and has said as much. How are you drawing these conclusions?

KWB

How I am drawing

How I am drawing these conclusions:

http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/issues/foreign-policy

Well

He supported the KONY 2012 effort, how anyone can explain that away is beyond me.

It was a Scam, He should have known better.

Not only was it a scam, it

Not only was it a scam, it was a scam designed to get US troops into yet another country. It was also successful. Johnson's alleged non-imperialism is pretty suspect.

Good article.

I have seen many articles in the past weeks that tell of the decline and possible demise of the GOP for their blatant attacks on RP and his delegates. Yeah!

~Your perception becomes your reality~

Read the bill a bit closer

It had a jurisdictional exception for Federal courts. That would have meant that Federal courts could not review cases that went to the state supreme courts. Because of the way it was written each state could enforce the law in whatever way they saw fit. Ron Paul does not attempt to force his version of society on to the Federal Gov't. I would hope that none of us try to either.

This was a failed reply

But I will leave it here to counter the belief that Dr. Paul thinks the Federal Gov't should be outlawing abortion.

The Romney camp can only blame themselves

For alienating such a large portion of their base.

A good leader should be a uniter, NOT a divider.

Does he expect any enthusiasm from the Liberty camp or the Evangelical camp? Romney is a damn fool. I don't much like McCain, but he ran a much better campaign than this clown, and he was weighed down by the Bush years.

And all this crap about attacking Iran and Russia. Seriously he should poll Republicans, I don't think that is a very popular position.

I can't imagine many of our troops support Romney to be honest.

I might be wrong about this,

I might be wrong about this, but I would bet that Romney will get a huge percentage of the evangelical vote. High nineties. I hope I'm wrong, but these people are OWNED by the republican party in the exact same way as the black vote will ALWAYS be around 99% for the democrats. And I'm sure that someone is gonna say "what about the black evangelicals?" I'm pretty sure that they will go democrat in the high 90 percentile. I might regret saying this, but right now I feel that as long as Willard Romney loses, I'll take that as a personal win. And the worse he does, the happier that I will be. I'm even tempted to vote for Obama and I have never voted for a democrat for president.

Larry in North Carolina
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men and women to not support Ron Paul!

Not a chance

The evangelical community knows full well Romney's flip flop on abortion, among other things. He's Mormon - like it or not, it matters.

The way he did in Santorum did not earn him any friends.

I don't see Romney turning out a big conservative vote to be honest.

The votes he will get are the RNC establishment sheep.

Too many want a hand out

Too many want a hand out instead of a hand up.

Bob Marshall

Romney and the GOP Cheated...

...and deserve to lose.

I may...
1. Vote for Virgil Goode
2. Vote for Gary Johnson
3. Vote for O'bummer...

But I will NEVER, EVER, IN A MILLION YEARS VOTE FOR ROMNEY!

I'm even going to vote against our first-term, Republican hack congressman, Dan Beneshik, who violated his campaign promises and oath of office, by voting for the Democrat running against him.

We, the people, must term-limit anyone that doesn't follow their oath of office. Down party-ism's - up with PRINCIPLES!

Restore the Foundations - "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?"

O'bummer

O'bummer seriously...Write in for Ron Paul should at least be on the list.

The trouble with writing in

The trouble with writing in RP is that no record will occur. Voting for GJ or VG will leave a record of the presence anti-Romney conservatives.

Exactly Backwards

With all the electronic voting machines IF YOUR CANDIDATE IS PRINTED ON THE BALLOT THEN there is no record. If you Write in Ron, and PROVE IT - there IS a record.

We're in a R3volution! Don't give up and compromise. Write In Ron!

सत्यं एव जायते
Satyam Eva Jayate!
Truth Alone Triumphs!

second that

Where I voted in the past they would print out a tally at each precinct. Those on the ballet would have the # of votes beside their name (assuming the machines where not rigged or tampered with)
Then the write-ins were printed out separatly, so if I would type in "Mickey Moose" on the write in on the machine, it would get printed out at the end of the night and posted on the window for anyone who cared to check it.
I started writing in liberty websites for uncontested races like coroner ect. For example if I typed in dailypaul.com or freedom-force.org these websites would be printed at the end of the sheet. I'm sure at least the poll workers were curious as to what that was all about and who knows they may have checked them out!

When I say that a write-in

When I say that a write-in vote will leave no record, I mean that write-in votes, unless there is a seriously organized campaign (people going door to door, telephone calling, advertising, etc.) the write in votes are so few that they are not even mentioned in the results.

I hope anyone but Romney wins

I hope anyone but Romney wins to wake up the GOP and further our cause but I couldn't in good conscious vote for Obama. My vote will be going towards Johnson.

I

Agree except with number 3. Because voting for Obummer is exactly what the GOP wanted.

And voting for BO would fail

And voting for BO would fail to show that you are a former RP supporter, as voting for Virgil Goode or Johnson would tend to do.

Instead of taking over the GOP, wouldn't it be easier.....

to take over the Libertarian Party and re-brand it into the Liberty Party? Let the duopoly eat each other. A third party would give Republicans and Democrats another choice.

A party that is fiscally responsible and socially free will become the mainstream while the extremes of the Democratic socialists and Republican religious zealots become the crazy fringes.

There is a psychological barrier preventing many Democrats to join the GOP even if you change the platform. The GOP brand has a stigma that would take many generations to overcome. We have to separate ourselves completely from the extremist of the GOP to ever win the hearts and minds of the left-leaning Independents and Democrats.

Our future is winning the hearts and minds of the young generation. We have to be cooler.

Four more years of Obama will advance our cause by decades.

Gary Johnson 2012

The Liberty Party...

Love it!

Second THAT!

Yes! The Liberty Party, with the goal of NOT letting it be "Neo'd" like the Libertarians and Tea Party were by the Koch brothers minions.

सत्यं एव जायते
Satyam Eva Jayate!
Truth Alone Triumphs!

I think you have it reversed.

I think you have it reversed. The GJ Libertarians are trying to coopt the RP movement. Their tactic is to overwhelm the DP with posts showing that GJ is the *only* candidate with a platform resembling Ron Paul's, and therefore all Ron Paul supporters have no choice but to support GJ. If any mention of other candidates, Virgil Goode, for example, they spam the person out with irrelevant arguments such as "VG is not on all states' ballots," etc., and making it appear that GJ is the overwhelming favorite.

I understand those who want to write-in RP in but...

No excuses people! The fact that 16% of you are planning on writing in RP is insane: you might as well not vote. Vote for Gary Johnson. Is he perfect? No. But *neither was Ron Paul*, and he *asked* us not to treat him like a cult of personality. But your vote WILL count, and it WILL be known that votes were taken from Romney AND Obama no matter who wins.

But why even say that? How about voting for GJ for his actual merits? I say this as someone who used to complain on a regular basis about GJ supporters on this site... now that it's over, I am finding more and more things to like about him as a very real possibility for President.

They're not insane......just unwilling to sell out

on their beliefs. I'm voting Gary Johnson and would have told you weeks ago I will never vote for anyone but Ron Paul.

I understand their inner-struggle. Let's not treat them the way the GOP treated Ron Paul. Let them do what they have to do and willing to recognize their conviction.

Yes, it would be nice to have more numbers to send the GOP a loud and clear message but we have enough to be heard.

Their vote may not be officially counted and reported but someone will be keeping a tab on write-ins for Dr. Paul and the insiders will know.

Dump Dumbo Tomorrow IX XI and Write in Ron Guy Fawkes +1

The best thing we can do to stick it to Romney and his Establishment puppet masters is to EXIT the "Republican" Party tomorrow en masse.
http://dumpdumbo.blog.com/

Here's why:
http://dumpdumbo.blog.com/down-by-rinos/

and here's what's next:
http://dumpdumbo.blog.com/then-what/

Ron Paul NOT being on any ballots is a HUGE blessing and gives US and him the opportunity of truly defeating Obomber. All we have to do is
1. Write in Ron
2. Prove it.

सत्यं एव जायते
Satyam Eva Jayate!
Truth Alone Triumphs!

Romney has done an excellent

Romney has done an excellent job of teaching tactics to some of the Ron Paul supporters, who now, as he taught his own supporters never to mention Ron Paul, are conspiring to avoid all mention of Virgil Goode. Romney should be proud of having spread his dishonesty so thoroughly and effectively. Soon there will be no faction not filled with liars.

I've got no problem with

I've got no problem with Goode; I just share more views with Johnson. Vote for whoever you like more.

I agree. My concern is that

I agree. My concern is that the GJ supporters are discrediting their cause by practicing deliberate deception.

Hey, if you want to vote Virgil Goode....

more power to you. Goode and Paul have a lot in common. We would love to unite with the Goode voters and figure a best path forward to break the duopoly.

In politics, you can only have power in numbers and we recognize our common ideals with our Goode brethren for we have more in common with each other than we do with neo-con deficit borrowing Republicans.

Five factions trying to accomplish the same goal will be more successful as a united force but we respect your choice and wish you success. If you can muster more momentum and numbers than RP supporters and Libertarians working together, we'll happily join you.

If we do and you choose not to join us, we'll respect that.

Let's consider this. Neither

Let's consider this. Neither GJ nor VG is going to be elected, and that is not what we are trying to accomplish. Rather, the point is for the Ron Paulites to demonstrate that they insist on voting their conservative/libertarian convictions. Why is this purpose better served by everybody voting for either GJ or VG together? We will in any case be able to point out that GJ and VG together took X% of the votes, thus making our point. Now, none of this is relevant to my point, which is that the tactic of the dishonest avoidance of mention of a hated candidate is corrupting and degrading to those who do it. It is not a part of political discourse, but is an effort only to deceive. Frankly, it is filling me and others with a deep distaste for GJ, though in fairness I do not think the tactic is coming from him, and doubt he is as dishonest as are some of his followers. I will add as a side note that the argument that VG is not on the ballot in all states is invalid because nobody, again, thinks that GJ or VG can be elected. Rather, the hope, again, is to show that the Ron Paulites will vote their consciences and not support Romney.

Somebody somewhere at every voting poll will be...

keeping a tab of who voted for whom. Even those that vote for Mickey Mouse will be tabulated but not officially counted or reported.

The insiders will know. Although, only what is officially counted and publicly reported will have any influence on the public and can not be spun by the pundits into a false interpretation.

The goal is not to elect Gary Johnson rather, send a PUBLIC message that CAN NOT be ignored or spun.

Vote your conscience if you care less that a PUBLIC IRREFUTABLE SPIN-PROOF message is delivered. Conscience Vs. Spin-proof Message, both have equal merits, IMHO. No one should discount either.

I'm not quite following what

I'm not quite following what you say. Why is it less effective as to our purpose if, rather than X% voted for GJ, we instead have to say X/2% voted for GJ and X/2% for VG? Why isn't this just as effective?