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Ron Paul on The Fair Tax: "I'd probably vote for it if it ever came to the floor."

From 2008: Ron Paul discusses the Fair Tax - a plank of of Libertarian Presidential Candidate Gary Johnson's 2012 platform that is controversial among some supporters of the Texas Congressman.

The good doctor opines:


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Fair Tax without an income

Fair Tax without an income tax would be better than what we have today, PROVIDED the tax were only on non-essential items. I'd prefer no taxes but when's that gonna happen? The year 5678?


Great find.

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sometimes LL can suck & sometimes LL rocks!
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

Wouldnt the rich be paying more taxes under Fair TAx?

If Fair TAx is Consumption tax, who buys the most stuff, right, the rich.

Under income tax who gets the most tax breaks, right the rich.

Is that too simple an explanation?

At least you would have some control, on things you didnt have to buy, right?

Am I wrong, here, dont know much about Fair TAx, but surely know income tax isnt fair.

And if it replaced income tax, it might be a good place to start, since I'm not rich!

Here is the

official fair tax channel on YouTube; it explains in depth what the fair tax is. https://www.youtube.com/user/FairTaxOfficial/videos

Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our Liberty. -Thomas Jefferson

Rothbard's critque of the Fair Tax The consumption tax

"The consumption tax, on the other hand, can only be regarded as a payment for permission-to-live. It implies that a man will not be allowed to advance or even sustain his own life, unless he pays, off the top, a fee to the State for permission to do so. The consumption tax does not strike me, in its philosophical implications, as one whit more noble, or less presumptuous, than the income tax."

It's much less offensive than the income tax...

There are no loopholes, and it doesn't require a huge bureaucracy to implement like the IRS. Half the jobs of Washington lobbyists are working to get tax loopholes. It would be a real shame to see the lobbyists get laid off.

Plus, the income tax only taxes the employed citizens while a consumption tax will be paid by anyone that interacts with our economy, such as illegal immigrants and visitors.

Voting for it and supporting it

are two different things

When has Ron Paul voted for anything he didn't support?

Seems like I remember he was willing to vote "nay" by himself if necessary.

Maybe you're talking about some other fellow named Ron Paul - a different one than I know.

Several times

Not being against something thing is not the same as being for something. Consider the earmarks he inserts in bills

Earmarks in bills?

Earmarks are ways to re-claim what was stolen. They may look bad, but they are indeed good.

One might argue that the Fair Tax is an attempt to reduce taxes, which Ron Paul -does- support whenever possible, on the way to the goal of zero tax...which is precisely what Gary Johnson proposed.

Michael Nystrom's fists can punch through FUD.

That is why he inserts them but does not vote for them

In 2005 HR 25 was the fair tax bill. It has a few hundred co sponsors, none of which was Ron Paul. If he supported it, he would have sponsored the bill.
Is it better than the system we have now? YES, therefore vote for it
Is it worth spending the political capital to get votes, NO

Ron Paul said in the video that...

he wasn't a cosponsor of the bill but would probably vote for it if it were allowed to come to the floor.

Still he never voted FOR an earmark...

As you pointed out, he voted against them which bolsters my point - Ron Paul has never voted for something he didn't support.

To the OP that got -3

Stand tall. I'm one of the millions of people who find themselves virtually in complete agreement with Ron Paul. Gary Johnson is one of the millions of people who find themselves virtually in complete agreement with Ron Paul. I get down-voted a lot if I associate myself with Gary Johnson.

Reminds me of that Jethro Tull song "The Valley".

Michael Nystrom's fists can punch through FUD.

Looks like we may get to see Dr. Paul get downvoted again.

It's obvious that there's no animosity between Ron Paul and Gary Johnson...that Ron Paul likes Gary Johnson, and he has no problem with most of his political positions.

It's obvious that Johnson is not a neo-con in disguise like Wayne Root or Bob Barr were. (Both Root and Barr have now returned to the GOP, where they belong.)

It's also obvious that Johnson has praised Ron Paul, that he respects him, and that Johnson has a good track record on many issues like fiscal responsibility, the War on Drugs, and constitutional civil liberties. That's probably why Ron Paul invited Johnson to speak at his convention two years ago. He did not invite Bob Barr.

In the case of the Fair Tax, it's obvious that it is undesirable compared to NO income taxes, but would be a better system than the current Marxist graduated Income Tax system that crushes the middle class in a steel vise.

Many things are obvious here. Except the motivations of some people who are so determined to trash Johnson at any cost. Those are puzzling.

Support the Constitution of the United States

Sweet Loving Kindness!

I assume the +2 I've gotten so far is because I associate myself with Jethro Tull. ;-)

"So you balance the world on the tip of your nose like a sea lion with a ball at the carnival."

Michael Nystrom's fists can punch through FUD.

Direct Unapportioned Taxes

Are not permitted by the Federal Constitution. Once Ron Paul was convinced the Fair Tax violated the apportionment rule I'd bet we would see his typical Dr. No vote.

May our efforts in support of Congressman Ron Paul be blessed with supernatural success.

FYI - The Fair Tax plan

FYI - The Fair Tax plan includes a Constitutional amendment. It is Constitutional to amend the Constitution.

Thomas Jefferson 1796, 1800, 1804; James Madison 1808, 1812; Ron Paul 1988, 2008, 2012; Rand Paul 2016.

1% VAT

Ron has said he would support a 1% vat if it came to the floor for a vote. CATO and von Mises both studied it and gave it a thumbs up. Which reminds me...

Remember this?

Mark Larsen of 1040 AM WWBA interviewed Mitt Romney on the morning of 1/29/2008. The sneers and chuckles from slippery Mitt pushed him over the edge...

The VAT tax is another layered tax that will weigh down....

the system with a bloated bureaucracy. VAT taxes are difficult and complicated to collect.


"VAT taxes are difficult and complicated to collect."

Cool! If we gotta have em, that's the way I like em.

Did you listen to the youtube link?

The key word here is

The key word here is PROBABLY. Ron has been very clear that he is not a proponent of the fair tax. Gary has made it part of his platform.

"Probably" is in no way a declaration of support or a firm commitment to actually vote for the legislation. Probably is probably.

You have been grasping at straws for months dwalters, but now it's actually becoming comical. Thanks for the laugh! :)

Ron Paul 2012 - It's Almost Here!

Two things consider about his remark

Ron Paul has on numerous occasions spoken out about inflation being a hidden tax that robs peoples savings and he has spoken out against the growing welfare state.

Fact: The "Fair" Tax is a tax on peoples savings because you have to pay tax when you spend the money that you have already paid taxes on when you earned it.

Fact: The "Fair" Tax makes everyone a welfare recipient because EVERYONE will receive a "Prebate" from the government.

I highly doubt that Ron Paul actually supports the "UnFair" Tax.

Kathleen Gee's picture

The Fair Tax REPLACES the Income Tax, payroll, FICA, etc.

So you won't have "already paid taxes on" money that you spend. You take home your entire paycheck under the Fair Tax.

True, during the transition to a Fair Tax, some people will be screwed. It's inevitable during any kind of transition from one system to another. But can we get any more screwed by the tax code than we are now?

I've found that most people who are critics of the Fair Tax have to first invent a straw man and then attack the straw man instead of the Fair Tax itself, because they haven't bothered to read either of the books or read anything at FairTax.org.

Ron Paul has said more than once that the FairTax could be a good step towards simplification and transparency in the tax code, but ultimately, you have to shrink the size of government so you don't have to collect as much in taxes to run it. That's the key.

"Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid." - Ronald Reagan

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Where do you get the Straw man crap

I'm talking facts about the so called "Fair Tax". You may not have a pot to piss in but some of us have a savings and have paid dearly for the privilege to earn that savings. And you may like the idea of receiving a mandatory welfare check from the government but those of use who resist slavery are not so willing.

What you are saying is that it is a good idea for the government to screw group A in order to pay group B, which is the same thing we have now. Not only will I have to PAY DOUBLE TAX (at least) but the people who don't try to work to support themselves will still be taking from those who do. Where do you think the "havenots" are going to get the money to spend on their name brand closes and Ipods. What a joke. This whole thing is smoke and mirrors designed to keep us as voluntary slaves by making us think we have more control.

And whats worse is that in the process it requires we all receive the "prebate" which will make us all dependent on government. You may enjoy the thought of you, your children, your children's children etc... being raised as dependents of the state but I don't and I will resist that enslavement until the day I die.

And this doesn't even begin to delve into the inherent problems that will arise after this "great plan" is implemented that will require "modification". And since I don't worship Ron Paul I'm not afraid to say when he is wrong. Unlike you idol worshipers. And I am not afraid to question his full understanding of a subject either.

So grow up and leave your straw man comments inside your straw head.

Once upon a time our current income tax was "simple plan" and small minded people (I'm looking at you) accepted it because they thought it wouldn't affect them or they may even get something out of it.

Calling him a liar?

What other legislation has Ron Paul just said - "I'd probably vote for it..." - on whim without knowing what he was talking about.

It's funny how people will speak in favor of Ron Paul's integrity and astuteness on so many issues until it goes against a deep-seeded bias that they possess. Then, they just act like the doctor is just a foolish kook, like his detractors try to label him with.

I would guess Ron Paul knows more about the Fair Tax and has known it much longer than 99% of us. Disagree?

"I would guess Ron Paul knows

"I would guess Ron Paul knows more about the Fair Tax and has known it much longer than 99% of us. Disagree?"

I do not disagree. On the contrary. I very much agree Ron Paul knows alllllll about the Fair Tax and the fact he has never introduced a Fair Tax bill in Congress speaks for itself. It's a pos plan.

It's a POS plan that is loaded with flaws (how do the Amish get the "pre-bate" w/out a Social Security Number, etc.) and has a high probability of some very serious unintended consequences (cashless society. Government bans and censorship via excessive taxation on sales of guns, ammo, alcohol, tobacco, fatty foods, sugary drinks, material of "explicit content", etc.). At the very least, it would be a bureaucratic nightmare to replace our current bureaucratic nightmare.

That is why he said PROBABLY

That is why he said PROBABLY instead of talking out of his ass on a whim like your guy Johnson.

Ron Paul 2012 - It's Almost Here!

I don't care if Jesus endorsed the fair tax

I still don't like it.
It is by biggest problem with Johnson.
I can still vote for him but only because the fair tax would never get to his desk.

cha ching

ditto - I would do whatever it takes to make sure it never makes it to his desk, because by the time Fair Tax, Flat Tax, or any other substitute for the income tax is introduced as a bill, the 16th amendment will have already been repealed by then.

My favorite tax plan:
Repeal 16th
Repeal 17th
Abolish the IRS
End the Fed