-19 votes

POLL: Which Principle is More Important?

Which of these two principles is more important to you?

---> http://strawpoll.me/3200/

Make sure to comment with why you voted the way you did or any other observation so we can get as many people to take the poll as possible! Thanks!

OTHER POLLS:
http://strawpoll.me/3284/
http://strawpoll.me/3274/
http://strawpoll.me/3262/
http://strawpoll.me/3238/
http://strawpoll.me/3236/
http://strawpoll.me/3202/




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Nice taste...

...now answer the question >:( lol

Critical Thinking > Emotional Thinking > Pseudo-Intellectuals that Saturate DP
Utilitarianism > Consequentialism > Deontology > Egocentrism
Making people feel "troll'd" with the truth > being an intentional troll > acting like one naturally

By the way

I am voting for Gary Johnson. I WOULD HAVE LIKED to vote for Ron Paul if that would have advanced liberty more, but it doesn't in my case. Your poll doesn't make any sense.

The poll makes sense. It's a

The poll makes sense.

It's a conflict of principles many libertarians have. To avoid the conflict many lie to themselves and ignore evidence in order to believe that one principle meets the other when it really doesn't.

Check the link in my sig for an explanation. I'm really just curious how many people don't put much thought into it end up contradicting themselves.

Critical Thinking > Emotional Thinking > Pseudo-Intellectuals that Saturate DP
Utilitarianism > Consequentialism > Deontology > Egocentrism
Making people feel "troll'd" with the truth > being an intentional troll > acting like one naturally

.

"I'm really just curious how many people don't put much thought into it end up contradicting themselves."

I often wonder the same.

One must always ask themselves the questions that they wish to ask of others.

2014 Liberty Candidate Thread: http://www.dailypaul.com/287246/2014-liberty-candidate-thread

2016 Potential Presidential Candidates: http://alturl.com/mt7tq

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

I shared this on facebook a

I shared this on facebook a little while ago :P

https://www.facebook.com/regards/posts/497782236906556

DZdownunder is exactly the type of person this post was geared towards. Check out his comment.

Critical Thinking > Emotional Thinking > Pseudo-Intellectuals that Saturate DP
Utilitarianism > Consequentialism > Deontology > Egocentrism
Making people feel "troll'd" with the truth > being an intentional troll > acting like one naturally

I clicked the link

I clicked the link but the page is unavailable?

2014 Liberty Candidate Thread: http://www.dailypaul.com/287246/2014-liberty-candidate-thread

2016 Potential Presidential Candidates: http://alturl.com/mt7tq

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

"He who knows all the answers

"He who knows all the answers has not been asked all the questions." -Confucius

I make it my job to keep asking the right questions so people can come to their answers themselves.

Sadly, you wouldn't be surprised with how many people will avoid answering a question that contradicts what they want to believe like it's life or death.

Reminds me of Jan Helfeld interviews :P

Critical Thinking > Emotional Thinking > Pseudo-Intellectuals that Saturate DP
Utilitarianism > Consequentialism > Deontology > Egocentrism
Making people feel "troll'd" with the truth > being an intentional troll > acting like one naturally

By definition

as libertarians, for the most part, we WANT to vote for the person who most advances liberty. Duhhh!

Okay... so the support and

Okay... so the support and vote for Gary Johnson and the support and vote for Ron Paul, right now and for the future, which one promotes the liberty movement to its full potential?

What is your list of pros and cons for voting one way or the other?

Critical Thinking > Emotional Thinking > Pseudo-Intellectuals that Saturate DP
Utilitarianism > Consequentialism > Deontology > Egocentrism
Making people feel "troll'd" with the truth > being an intentional troll > acting like one naturally

I believe in the law of Karma, or the Biblical principle that

you reap what you sow. There are definitely good arguments for voting for Ron Paul. He is more libertarian than Gary Johnson, in that, even on issues for which I agree more with Johnson than Paul, Ron Paul understands the big picture of the NAP. And even though I agree more with Johnson on immigration, what about issues like the economy, taxes, foreign policy, the drug war, civil liberties? Gary Johnson is simply not radical enough for my tastes. A vote for Paul, even if it weren't counted by the media, would be counted by God (or the Universe, for you New Agers). By voting for Johnson, I risk a moral backlash by the principles of existence for supporting someone who just doesn't get it on principle.

Pros for Johnson: His vote is likely to be counted and broadcast to the masses, as NOBODY, save a few hard core left and right, likes either Obama or Romney. Johnson could get a huge third party vote, enough to get people interested in the ideas of liberty because he is associated with the word Libertarian. With the Internet (assuming it is not censored after the election) allowing people to quickly look up various writers and organizations with a libertarian bent, and discovering and thinking for themselves about the issues, it would be impossible for the system to prevent a sea-change in political discourse in this country. I will risk the Karmic backlash for voting for someone who "just doesn't get it," because I believe GJ actually has his heart in the right place, and, after the election, will take the time to learn more about liberty issues from the masters. He was, after all, a REPUBLICAN governor just a few years ago, and the progress he's made on understanding liberty has been tremendous. Just think about where he'll be in a few years, considering that his political and social interactions are now largely with radical libertarians.

Those are basically my thoughts on the subject.

I have a longer list of

I have a longer list of positive things happening for the liberty movement regarding support and a vote for Johnson, but your ability to appreciate the possibility of him learning why his own positions are libertarian or libertarian-esque restore some faith I have in the human race...

...the ability to give the benefit of the doubt when you can genuinely see someone with their heart in the right place and headed in the right direction... their potential... instead of closing your eyes and sabotaging someone's chances in the future to ever be "good enough"... simply because it's easier to.

Seriously... GJ stuff aside (I only decided to go from write-in to GJ the other day)... thank you.

Critical Thinking > Emotional Thinking > Pseudo-Intellectuals that Saturate DP
Utilitarianism > Consequentialism > Deontology > Egocentrism
Making people feel "troll'd" with the truth > being an intentional troll > acting like one naturally

Your assumption is suspect

that a vote for GJ promotes the cause of liberty more than a write in for Ron. It definitely shows the opposition that we're divided. Your poll is clever, but only offers false choices. I hate to admit it, as much as it hurts,but voting for GJ or RP isn't going to move the liberty movement forward, that is up to us. These men aren't monoliths. We've got to do the heavy lifting.
As for the second question I am sure you are talking about Ron, but it equally applies to Johnson. Neither one has a chance at this point, why not vote your conscience?

They're not false choices.

They're not false choices. They're two principles that when combined offer the question in the other poll.

If a person didn't care about the liberty movement, it's an easy choice.
If a person believed that the person they wanted was the one that promoted the liberty movement the most, it's an easy choice.

If someone hasn't decided yet which vote would promote the cause of liberty most, they're faced with the question... a vote for which person helps promote the liberty movement's potential most?

It's more critical and objective thinking and less simple and emotional.

It's not about which person has a chance to win, it's about which has the most positive impact with our unified votes behind them.

If we all voted for one of the two... which gives us the most bang for our buck and reaches the movement's current potential for now and the future?

Simply saying "they can't win" so it doesn't matter... vote for whoever makes you feel good" is lazy (no offense) and ignores the potential for better things.

Voting together can make the vote more than a personal protest... it can be a tool that could make history... regardless of whether the person won or not.

There's more than just "they can't win" to consider.

Critical Thinking > Emotional Thinking > Pseudo-Intellectuals that Saturate DP
Utilitarianism > Consequentialism > Deontology > Egocentrism
Making people feel "troll'd" with the truth > being an intentional troll > acting like one naturally

.

"What is your list of pros and cons for voting one way or the other?"

This "could" be an attempt to re-invent ones position(s) for the purpose of running for office and a desire to win.

Obama and Romney were not properly vetted. It is essential to examine past voting records and speeches/statements.

2014 Liberty Candidate Thread: http://www.dailypaul.com/287246/2014-liberty-candidate-thread

2016 Potential Presidential Candidates: http://alturl.com/mt7tq

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

What is your list of pros and

What is your list of pros and cons regarding the good and bad results for the liberty movement between your choices of voting for Ron Paul or Gary Johnson?

As far as Obama and Romney go... I doubt many of us are interested in liars and crooks.

Obama: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8R5GvwUFU8
Romney: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_pgfWK3sxw

Critical Thinking > Emotional Thinking > Pseudo-Intellectuals that Saturate DP
Utilitarianism > Consequentialism > Deontology > Egocentrism
Making people feel "troll'd" with the truth > being an intentional troll > acting like one naturally

.

GJ does not fit within my definition of Liberty.

You will have to research, and then listen to your intellect to understand what I mean. I cannot do that for you.

2014 Liberty Candidate Thread: http://www.dailypaul.com/287246/2014-liberty-candidate-thread

2016 Potential Presidential Candidates: http://alturl.com/mt7tq

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

You're answering a question I

You're answering a question I never asked.

I never asked about GJ as a candidate. I already know that he's not a true libertarian and have done plenty of research.

Please just answer the question... because so far you haven't.

What are the pros and cons of a vote for Paul and the support and vote for Johnson?

Critical Thinking > Emotional Thinking > Pseudo-Intellectuals that Saturate DP
Utilitarianism > Consequentialism > Deontology > Egocentrism
Making people feel "troll'd" with the truth > being an intentional troll > acting like one naturally

The poll is flawed.

A - Promoting the cause of Liberty to its full potential.

B - Voting for the person I want as president even if they can't win.

If this is a way to choose between GJ and RP, GJ cannot achieve A, specifically referring to "its full potential".

It is obvious that in order to achieve A, B must first be realized.

Thus, the poll is flawed.

2014 Liberty Candidate Thread: http://www.dailypaul.com/287246/2014-liberty-candidate-thread

2016 Potential Presidential Candidates: http://alturl.com/mt7tq

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

The poll isn't flawed,

The poll isn't flawed, because the realistic full potential of the liberty movement now and plans/strategy for it in the future that must be acted on it now to reach full potential doesn't mean voting for the person I want as president.

I could want a relative of mine who I think is the best person for the job and write them in... that doesn't mean it's the best for the liberty movement.

People have conflicting principles all the time. The point is, which of the two is the moral high ground when you can't have both and to what lengths are people willing to ignore many aspects of the situation in order to make the choice easier on them self... so much that they don't even think it's a choice or conflict?

Critical Thinking > Emotional Thinking > Pseudo-Intellectuals that Saturate DP
Utilitarianism > Consequentialism > Deontology > Egocentrism
Making people feel "troll'd" with the truth > being an intentional troll > acting like one naturally

The poll isn't flawed

lol. Yes, it is.

If you want to promote Liberty, then build upon the idea that finishing what one starts is a necessity of winning. Otherwise, efforts will be moot.

If you just want a simple answer, my principle is to vote for the person who stands by principle. By write-in, if necessary.

2014 Liberty Candidate Thread: http://www.dailypaul.com/287246/2014-liberty-candidate-thread

2016 Potential Presidential Candidates: http://alturl.com/mt7tq

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

You want Paul to win because

You want Paul to win because you think a vote for him will promote the liberty movement to its full potential.

ALSO

You want to promote the liberty movement to its full potential, so you'll vote for Paul.

You clearly believe that voting a write-in of Paul promotes the liberty movement the most, but what if it didn't?

What if there is a longer list of ways that voting for someone else promotes the liberty movement to its full potential now and for the future than doing a write-in of Ron Paul does?

Which one do you think Paul himself would want you to do?

Critical Thinking > Emotional Thinking > Pseudo-Intellectuals that Saturate DP
Utilitarianism > Consequentialism > Deontology > Egocentrism
Making people feel "troll'd" with the truth > being an intentional troll > acting like one naturally

Here is something that you might understand:

If Amash was age-eligible, I might consider voting or writing him in.

See how easy?

2014 Liberty Candidate Thread: http://www.dailypaul.com/287246/2014-liberty-candidate-thread

2016 Potential Presidential Candidates: http://alturl.com/mt7tq

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

Stillllll waiting....

Stillllll waiting....

Critical Thinking > Emotional Thinking > Pseudo-Intellectuals that Saturate DP
Utilitarianism > Consequentialism > Deontology > Egocentrism
Making people feel "troll'd" with the truth > being an intentional troll > acting like one naturally

You didn't answer the

You didn't answer the questions.

Critical Thinking > Emotional Thinking > Pseudo-Intellectuals that Saturate DP
Utilitarianism > Consequentialism > Deontology > Egocentrism
Making people feel "troll'd" with the truth > being an intentional troll > acting like one naturally

you're the one with all the answers

why don't you fill us in? You keep demanding that others answer your Spanish inquisition(another great python skit!). Make your point and move on. Why is GJ such a better choice? What is he going to do to advance the cause? Join the Von Mises institute and learn some real economic principles? Talk to Lew Rockwell and learn what its like to be anti-war? What?

I wouldn't call a few very

I wouldn't call a few very simple questions that people should be able to answer easily since they already came to their choice with their reasons a "spanish inquisition" (History of the world ftw).

The point would be made if someone answered the simple question.

Apparently people want me to make a point but won't allow me to.

If I come up with the list, it could possibly be biased... hence why you have to come up with it.

How does a write-in for Paul promote the liberty movement to its full potential?

Critical Thinking > Emotional Thinking > Pseudo-Intellectuals that Saturate DP
Utilitarianism > Consequentialism > Deontology > Egocentrism
Making people feel "troll'd" with the truth > being an intentional troll > acting like one naturally

.

"You clearly believe that voting a write-in of Paul promotes the liberty movement the most, but what if it didn't?"

But it does, so I cannot answer "what if it didn't". Past experience has taught me well that in order to succeed, in order to be taken seriosuly, in order to keep the momentum always moving forward, one must always at least finish what was started.

"What if there is a longer list of ways that voting for someone else promotes the liberty movement to its full potential now and for the future than doing a write-in of Ron Paul does?"

If I learned that there was better candidate, or equal candidate, I would potentially consider supporting that person. But there isn't. Yet.

"Which one do you think Paul himself would want you to do?"

Dr. Paul would want me to be as educated as possible and to make my decision based upon that. He would not want or expect me to lower my principles.

2014 Liberty Candidate Thread: http://www.dailypaul.com/287246/2014-liberty-candidate-thread

2016 Potential Presidential Candidates: http://alturl.com/mt7tq

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

I really hope you're not

I really hope you're not avoiding this simple question like others have been.

Critical Thinking > Emotional Thinking > Pseudo-Intellectuals that Saturate DP
Utilitarianism > Consequentialism > Deontology > Egocentrism
Making people feel "troll'd" with the truth > being an intentional troll > acting like one naturally

The question wasn't who was

The question wasn't who was the "better candidate".

The question was what if SUPPORT and a VOTE for someone else ends up promoting the liberty movement more than WRITING IN a vote for who you think is a better candidate?

If he wants you to be as educated as possible... does that mean if I gave you a longer list of all the positive things that happen by getting behind Johnson compared to the positive things that happen by staying behind Paul... you could change your mind?

What are the ways that a write in for Ron Paul helps the liberty movement?

Critical Thinking > Emotional Thinking > Pseudo-Intellectuals that Saturate DP
Utilitarianism > Consequentialism > Deontology > Egocentrism
Making people feel "troll'd" with the truth > being an intentional troll > acting like one naturally

show us the list,

please