20 votes

Frustrating division on DP. We need to stay together

I hate to be rational, for fear of being accused of being an Ayn Rand disciple. But, all I have seen for over a week now are "Ron Paul says take over the GOP and the Gary Johnson people suck" and "abandon the GOP" and "write in Ron Paul even though they won't be counted" and "if you are not working within the GOP you are not a Ron Paul Republican!

Both sides are stupid, sorry. We can still be involved in the machinery of the GOP. Still have our Committeemen & Women. Still work within the state party. And yes, still vote for Gary Johnson. No one is going to know who you voted for. If you are worried about GOP'ers finding your facebook posts, then don't make them. If you are a single issue voter, then do what you must.

I find it irrational and stupid to split the movement over a vote. Vote your principles and morals. Afterwards we can be friends again.

Whether you know it or not, we are the rebirth of the American Enlightenment of Thomas Paine. "Common Sense" was the most important writing until the Declaration of Independence. We are the ones that understand that individual liberty trumps and is more successful than collectivism in all its forms. We are the continuation of Taft, Goldwater, and Paul. We are the holders of the conservative ideals of small government. Do not hate your brother and sister.

Enlightenment is a good thing. Deny the oppressors. Don't play the "horse race" of politics. It is a path to destruction.

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Yea let's "all stick together" but backstab the Ron Paul people

by down-voting them, anytime they have the nerve to talk about their candidate and write him in.

I have never before seen the Libertarian Party for what it is: behind the Liberty talk a band of ruthless TrotskyiteS who would purge internal party dissidents to Siberia if they could.

Writing in Ron Paul sends a stronger message than throwing away a vote on your fringe candidate Johnson. Remember the debate, people, the question was: what is the one word to describe Ron Paul:

Answer: CONSISTENT!

Gary Johnson says slaughtering Iraqi and Afghan babies is "keeping us safe."

http://www.dailypaul.com/253652/johnson-says-troops-over-the...

Release the Sandy Hook video.

Agitprop.

No different than when Rush Limbaugh said "Ron Paul blames America for 911."

Different target--same tactics.

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

I'm still committed to the

Daily Braul, be it daily, weekly, monthly, yearlystand on your own
principles and let others rise or fall on theirs. being Liberty Lovers of differing idiosyncratic stripes and ilks, I for one love the forays and convos be they pos+ / neg- . Tis educational and humorous !

LOve the R3volution

While I'm not one to consider

abandoning the GOP (just yet) I have to be leery of the ominous development of the GOP possibly expelling any individuals it deems disloyal to the party elite. They have already flexed this muscle in unseating elected individuals who have spoken out in support of others that they do not support. It's only a matter of time before they begin a purge of individuals they claim are disloyal to the party particularly ones who have contributed to the cause that won't continue to donate to theirs. They're making a list and checking it twice and they have probably had an assist from Benton in compiling it.

There are no politicians or bankers in foxholes.

The party is capable of what ever they want.

Check out the strategy on my site www.WNYRepublicans.com. I have their rules Preamble on the right.

I basically set them up by contacting various people in the party when I ask questions. Usually my county chair, executive director, state party attorney, state chair, exec dir. Then don't seem to want to mess with me because I am coming across like I am the Top Republican.

I will be using the preamble, with the info on the left side of the site when I will need too.

Republican Party and Disloyalty

This news development is not brand new. The State Republican Party already used one example of disloyalty to keep individuals out party leadership in Ohio and Kentucky.

Dp was already split, it's just that, Dr.Paul brought us

together. People argue, it's part of life. We're not fracturing because we were never cohesive past Dr.Paul. When another Liberty candidate steps up that has what it really takes, we'll come together. When a cause pops up that's of interest to us all, we take up arms.

Till then, it's back to the mosh pit.

The sooner you sally's stop crying every time someone says a harsh word to each other or has an argument over politics, because you guys are worried people aren't handing out flowers to one another and singing by the fire.. the better we'll all be.

Some say, blessed are the peacemakers, I agree, but I say you can be pansy's at times.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Well said.

Just because many of us don't want to support Gary Johnson doesn't mean the end of this Liberty movement. The main reason I still don't support Gary Johnson is because I personally believe he's a weak representative of the Liberty message and don't want him representing this movement moving forward. We are still united in wanting our personal and economic freedoms back from our corrupt government. All this "we need to stay united" code speak for voting for Gary Johnson sounds similar to all the garbage I heard from the GOP to vote for Romney for "unity of the party". We are still united in trying to get liberty minded candidates at the local and state levels elected into office so just because we disagree about Gary Johnson doesn't mean we are not united in fighting for the same goals.

What about the pro-persecuting Jesse Benton vs. the Kissing his

What about the pro-persecuting Jesse Benton people vs. the kissing his lil fanny crowd?

Regardless of what happens, I'm not going to abandon Liberty or the Daily Paul.

And neither will end my calls to mercilessly hound the archtraitor Jesse Benton until he collapses from sheer exhaustion and emotional anguish.

"Cowards & idiots can come along for the ride but they gotta sit in the back seat!"

Two Party System = Oligarchy

A Two Party System, whether comprised of Democrats and Republicans or Socialists and Fascists has NO CHOICE but to become an Oligarchy.

The lack of competition (aka Monopoly/Oligopoly) ensures that coercion and tradition determine the futures of all that are Centrally Planned.

Central Planning = Central Authority = Central Ownership

If you assume the Authority to Centrally Plan someone else's Property, Labor, Life, then you in practice OWN that person's Property, Labor, Life. Central Planning is Serfdom.

Libertarians have a great deal of knowledge and experience to introduce into this very stagnant Political system. Opening Competition is the solution.

Well then...

they should start by nominating an actual libertarian first. No Bob Barr, no CFR Gary - someone who's actually heard of the NAP, someone who is consistently AGAINST interventionism and taxation, someone who doesn't hand out subsidies like candy, and someone who respects our right to life from cradle to grave.

I don't play, I commission the league.

Power comes from Consent

We've seen examples of this throughout history, from La Boetie (1530) to Jefferson (1776).

Consent however has changed in 200 years, it is no longer explicit, but rather today it is assumed by the party one affiliates themselves with.

The Republican Party gets its Power from the Assumed Consent of its Members. They behave EXACTLY the same as they do in Representing us, TOP DOWN. If you belong to the Party, then you BELONG to its so-called Leadership.

The Libertarian Party has just purged the NeoCon leadership that plagued it for so many years. This Party need rebuilding and it is a logical place for LIBERTY minded people to cultivate.

The Libertarian Party has

The Libertarian Party has just purged the NeoCon leadership that plagued it for so many years.

Yet the LP just nominated a neocon.

I don't play, I commission the league.

Gary Johnson?

No one is perfect, but how is Gary Johnson a Neocon? I must be missing something.

You must've missed the Youtube video he is basing his facts on.

Johnson's current platform is 99% anti-military interventionist, but he had less "libertarian purity" a year ago when he was running as a Republican. The 1% where Johnson supports interventionism, that is being held up as proof of neoconservatism, is a clumsy remark he made about supporting 'humatarian intervention' in Uganda to prevent genocide. Because, as we all know, neoconservatism is ALL about preventing genocide in sub-equatorial African nations.

Of course, Johnson is on record as always having been opposed the war in Iraq, but evidently that's not good enough to disprove the smear of being a "neo-con."

Personally, I'm beginning to understand now how the Inquisition and the Salem Witch Trials happened.

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

I just had an experience with the LP.

http://www.dailypaul.com/254290/libertarian-party-a-security...

From meeting some folks in it and that want to, I chose this as a thread title.

Focus will not be easy.

This election will be over soon.

What follows is how the philosophical division will pan out.

We have the RP strategy of working the Republican party. I believe there is a clear majority of RP folks that do not want to be involved in the political process. Dr. Paul is conservative and represents the wise elders.

Then you have what is called the young bucks. This push is more aggressive than I believe Ron wants to be close to.

This is a classic struggle for leadership.

***

Being involved in a party/what party is another aspect. This is intertwined with the elder/young bucks and just may be the deciding factor.

***

What seems to be happening, is that as well as Dr. Paul is respected, grassroots seems to feel that four years was given to a more mellow conservative speed, and now the direction needs to change for a more quicker pace. As in, 'Dr. Paul, we followed you and we had our chance together. We still have to keep moving forward but you might have to choose to follow us in some areas.'

What happened yesterday with Woods, Ventura, Casida, is a clear message that is questioning leadership. And this message is being sent to Ron Paul and the Campaign for Liberty.

There is going to be some sort of transformation process or the grassroots will have to be given a bigger role. I don't know.

You nailed it!

This camp is so divided it stinks! To put it bluntly I'm sick of the stupidity that plagues this site!

Without true leadership a movement always splinters, and we are about as splintered as you can get!

So there, I got it off my chest, so go ahead and give me as many down votes as you can muster up!

The Winds of Change!

Division isnt necessarily a bad thing

Division means people are feeling out for the right course of action, the right person, the right cause, the right idea. With so many people out searching for these things, someone is bound to find it, the next thing we can unite around. We are only temporarily fractured in who will lead the movement, but still united that there should be a movement towards liberty. I dont believe that will ever change now that we are awake. As for what's next, personally I'm not sure and still searching myself. Some claim to have found what's next and are vying for recognition and acceptance. This is healthy. The marketplace of ideas is alive and well. I don't believe any of us are going anywhere, we're not fractured as to liberty, just how to achieve it, and I believe the best ideas will win out over time. Hang in there and don't let the frustration get to you. We're still here.

I hope you're right,

and I truely thank you for your thoughts!

The Winds of Change!

The only division I see here

is who to vote for now. It's like our General was killed on the battle field. Confusion and division follow shortly after such a travesty. This is when new leaders and new ideas emerge. One thing we all agree on is our rights provided by the Constitution and preserving them. We will only grow stronger. When a new leader emerges for the cause of liberty, Patriots will unite and we will be stronger than before.

"Give me liberty or give me death" Patrick Henry

Stay Together

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COiIC3A0ROM&feature=colike

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#standwithrand

Division will

Division will always result in the long run when only symptoms are being addressed.

Luke 3:38
Isaiah 43:3-5

They're not just recruiting for votes

They're recruiting for people to help donate and campaign for GJ; and when that takes time away to work for local candidates, then it becomes a problem.

Voters gonna vote. As long as there is a solid game plan for the local candidates, it really doesn't matter much who you vote for President. Vote for whomever you wish. For now, this is Obama's race to lose.

People need to stop trying to recruit people to vote for a

certain person. 98% of us already have our minds made up how we will vote and it is a waste of everyone's time trying to change people's voting intentions.
It's really getting out of hand and they should stop it.

You are right...

...but what if something changes?

Keimh3reg Peh2u Meg

Like what?

?

Really, I don't...

...know. That's why I agree with you that it is largely futile to argue.

Keimh3reg Peh2u Meg