Wow. I need to sharpen my skills. This guy is on the ball.
I would have lost it with this lady.
The best option to rally others to our cause is to stress a better way to communicate on the issues.
Hey you stupid,wacky Ron Paul supporter, don't bother me with the facts! I don't know squat but I know better then you and prefer my delusion cause I am too lazy to do any research or question my paradigm...
romneyromneyromneyromneyromneyromneyromney...she is just as bad as the blind supporters of Obama that she acts so superior to! LOL!
While table campaigning for Ron Paul and going door to door, I had a few conversations very similiar to this. Funny the only ones I ever won over were liberals, gays and african americans.
If my need to be RIGHT is greater than my desire for TRUTH, then I will not recognize it when it arrives ~ Libertybelle
Notice his tone of voice: never raised or overly emphatic. Notice his non-aggressive body posture. Notice his choice of words with lots of "ok ok" and "I'm not bashing you".
See that's the way it's done on the streets, at traffic stops or any time we encounter resistance. They parted with a hand shake.
There is nothing strange about having a bar of soap in your right pocket, it's just what's happening.
those who are deciples of Liberty and have discovered Ron Paul are highly intelligent and can take a position and argue that position using logic and knowledge...while EVERYONE ELSE seem like uneducated boobs who believe whatever the State tells them to believe?
I am so happy to be here on the DP amoungst all of you intelligent folks!!...and thanks for helping me with MY education!
Silence isn't always golden....sometimes it's yellow.
"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." - Patrick Henry
from watching this woman, I realized how many Republicans are gonna have egg on their face when Flip Flopney, if elected, continues the same policies as Obama did when he continued Bush's policies and we end up with more war, more debt and more death. If Flip Flopney does get elected, I look forward to Hannity and crew spin it to make Flopney look good to the sheep.
They're more concerned about the media sound bites and slogans than anything substantive, reasonable, or even outright facts of the matter. And don't seem inclined to research any further.
Our country will continue to decline if we cannot correct these people with scientifically conditioned human behaviors who think with their suggestible emotions rather than contemplate facts and reason for themselves.
"society could go in a thousand directions as to how it would exist and how it would be, but the public mustn't know that. The generations must believe that the one that they're born into is naturally evolved."-Lenin/Alan Watt/cuttingthroughthematrix.com
AND REPLACE BENTON WITH THIS GUY AND PAUL MIGHT HAVE WON THE NOMINATION!
"He's this eccentric Ghandi-Like figure that you cant touch with the normal bribes that people respond to."
the man Doug Wead on DR. RON PAUL
I am very proud of him!
Joe in MD
I thought he had turned them with the donations point. I have been in several arguments with people just like this, where you lay it all out for them, where they don't refute any of your facts(because they can't), yet they won't budge because Rush or Sean haven't told them to. At that point I just say "well, people get the government they deserve" and walk away. Give them something to chew on. All you can do is lay out your case passionately but respectfully, the rest is out of our hands.
This poor woman regurgitates every Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity neo-con talking point there is. So sad.
"If this mischievous financial policy [greenbacks], which has its origin in North America, should become endurated down to a fixture, then that government will furnish its own money without cost. It will pay off its debts and be without debts. It will hav
It might be good to have a thread devoted to debate tactics.
One thing I noticed is that there were very few questions asked during this debate, and strategic questions can be a great tool in a debate.
By "strategic questions," I am thinking of the Socratic Method where questions are asked to get the other person to take a specific position on an abstract concept, and then give them a concrete example that will shock them into realizing that their position might be wrong.
Q: Do you think we should get rid of Obama?
A: Yes, absolutely! The country can't survive another 4 years of Obama.
Q: Great. And do you support voting for anybody but Obama?
A: Yes, for sure!
Q: Would you vote for Hitler if he were on the ballot?
Eventually, you *should* be able to get them to accept the idea that they would not vote for Hitler, which means they do NOT accept the idea that they should "vote for anybody but Obama." At THAT point, you can get them to acknowledge that they should not vote for a candidate that is almost the same as Obama (since they now accept that they would NOT just vote for anybody but Obama, it stands to reason that they would also not vote for somebody just like Obama). And THEN show them that Romney is just like Obama.
Q: Do you support the Constitution?
A: Of course!
Q: Do you support all of the Bill of Rights?
Q: Do you support the 4th Amendment, where the government cannot search you, or seize you or your property without a warrant signed by a judge?
A: Of course.
Q: That's a very important protection, isn't it, because if the goverment can take your property or search you or your property without some sort of oversight then the government can take anything from you and harrass you, and that means you wouldn't have real freedom, right?
Q: If Obama supported a law that overturned the 4th Amendment and you didn't have that right anymore, would you support that?
A: Hell no!
Q: If any politican wanted to overturn the 4th Amendment protection, would you support them?
Q: Both George W. Bush and Mitt Romney support laws that strip you of your 4th Amendment protections ... what do you think about that?
A: ??? (They will deny it, which is why it is important to FIRST get them to accept the abstract principle that they would be against ANY politician that would do this before giving them the concrete example that shows them they are wrong.)
The big problem is that MOST people are uninformed, misinformed, disinformed, and propagandized with lies. When we confront them with truth, they just deny it.
Therefore, it can be a good idea to FIRST get them to think in terms of principles and THEN discuss facts. Then facts can be debated on their truthfulness. Those facts can then be applied to the principles that THEY already said they accept.
At that point, their subconscious mind has a conflict where facts have been presented that conflicts with their own principles, which means they either have to DENY ... or THINK.
And THAT is where we change minds.
Hey, it worked for Socrates. Well, sort of ... ;-)
I am not a good debater because I get mad and start escalating. I HATE that about myself. I just lose patience or if I keep going it escalates and is not very productive. Now this doesnt happen when I'm dealing with open minded people, only usually when I'm dealing with closed minded people. I really need to work on that.
I never thought of using a strategy like this. Thank you very much for your input. I think you should open a thread like you just mentioned because this would help allot of other patriots as well.
I used to to, until I learned to ask WHY. It's a huge step. Let them then provide you with the information for you to respectfully point out another POV. It works well for me, but there are always those, like this woman and her hubby, who simply cannot go there yet. So you plant the seeds and hope they grow. Ron Paul says, they cannot unhear what you said, and when they watch news in the future, they just may see it in a different light, due to your input,and start to realize the world is not what they thought it was.
Did you catch the part in the video when the gentleman brings up how Romney invented Obamacare, and the lady was trying to excuse him for this, and said "He had to fight the democrats. Explain THAT!" like she really nailed him there.
How is sacrificing all your principles, giving the democrats exactly what they want, and getting republicans to vote for it "fighting" them? That's like if we started fighting terrorism by blowing up all our own buildings.
Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito
Taking notes here. Thank you.
This was like watching a PhD debate a six-year old.
I have had these types of debates, too, where the other person just cannot see that they are doing the exact same thing in blindly supporting Romney that people in 2008 did in blindly supporting Obama.
This is a testament to the cumulative effect of propaganda within the society. There is no doubt that this woman has listened to and watched A LOT of Hannity, Limbaugh, et al.
It is the cumulative effect of disinformation/misinformation/propaganda that tends to "cement" ideas. However, that "cement" is watery. It will crumble just as soon as a STEADY FLOW of information is presented that logically counters the propaganda.
And it is that steady flow of truth telling that is sorely missing within society. And THAT is what we need to focus on more than anything else.
A million debates in the street like this would go a long way to changing the world. It would be great to have media outlets that actually discuss subjects with substantive debates, but that won't happen in a society where propagandists benefit from people being misinformed.
So, it is up to us. It is up to us to figure out how to create that STEADY FLOW of truthful information within society.
How to do THAT is the question.
The only thing that woman said that made any sense at all ...."I'm sorry." Sadly even that was insincere and just a figure of speech to her.
Kudos to this guy for staying cool and respectful, this can be very hard to do. As others have said it seemed like the husband may have been listening more than she and I would be willing to bet they did talk about this encounter more after they left. Even if they weren't convinced today they might have been inspired to research some of what was talked about... if not, the next time someone brings up NDAA (etc) they will remember this conversation. Rome was not built in a day and we can't expect to change hearts and minds overnight. Very well done.
Another term for preventive war is aggressive war- starting wars because someday somebody might do something to us. That is not part of the American tradition.
Such irony that this woman is wearing outrageous glasses--very symbolic of her skewed perception.
Stay informed and keep planting seeds!
this type is painful.
but... spread the good news
What is wrong with people?
She just as well should have said "Obama's worse than Romney because I heard it Fox news. "
UGGHH Sometimes you just want to slap people!
It's much easier to ignore the truth rather than accept the fact you've been living a lie, passed down from the very people you love and trusted the most. That's why we have RED and BLUE states. It's the result of localized communication.
The internet breaks down those communication barriers and changes everything. I love knowing that as of today children around the world will forever constantly weigh their parents teachings against the free marketplace of ideas.
If men are good, you don't need government; if men are evil or ambivalent, you don't dare have one.
It doesn't matter how they reacted because those words he spoke will not be forgotten. I was a neo-con for many years, and it took someone like this man to open my eyes. It didn't happen over night, but had those first words had not been spoken to me, I may still be a sheeple. We all need to speak up like this man has. He put seeds out there...others will water that seed and soon there will be more sprouts of liberty!!!
These poor people simply feel the need to be on a team they can cheer for. Logical arguments typically do not pursuade people like this. Pointing out how much larger and more fun our gatherings are compared to other candidates', as well as how much cooler our t-shirts and signs are might actually prove more pursuasive than rational arguments. Get their bodies aboard the movement and perhaps their minds will absorb the message later.
...however, I also think he left them with enough knowledge that they may start to study a few things. If they don't, they will remember his words if Romney gets in office and things continue to go spiraling down as usual.
“Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. When they are presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new evidence cannot be accepted. It would create a feeling that is extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance. And because it is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalize, ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in with the core belief.”
― Frantz Fanon
There was no way that woman was going to get it, However her husband seemed to being going through some cognitive dissonance of his own.
I really enjoyed the respectful nature of that spontaneous moment of education. This is what we need to be doing with our brothers and sisters. It is not their fault they have been brought up into a world of ignorance maintaining a world view set forth by the mainstream media and have been conditioned into being a reactionary being rather than a contemplative one. This woman clearly sees this as Red vs. Blue and couldn't care to take the time away from watching Dancing With The Stars to go look at what these people actually support and what their actions have already done. At best the husband had a seed planted in his own mind to perhaps pursue some actual knowledge. Well done regardless by the Veteran Patriot.
BTW to the person who filmed this: the shot where she says that people have had blinders on, followed by a quick zoom to her face with her own fancy blinders on...
"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience"—Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
I think her husband was listening and taking in some of the info, maybe not all of it, but at least some of it. Obviously no man in his right mind would be siding with the Ron Paul supporter(at least right there in that moment) which is understandable... Maybe when they have some subsequent talks about what that man had to say they can start making some intelligent progress and begin seeing the light. I pray that they do some researching and can let go of their preprogrammed beliefs to help them understand. Right now they are caught up and entranced in this duopolistic, 2 party system.
The only critique I would give is to lighten up just a little with the fact pounding and acknowledge how she is "right, BUT...". Make her feel like she is right in a way BUT... Pander to them a little more to draw them in rather than making them feel like they are wrong which kind of pushes them away from the truth. At least they know Obama is horrible. This 2 party system was meant to cause this sort of division in the people. It's the lesser of 2 evils that these people are squibbling about and lost due to.
I like how you stayed calm man, especially for that long. That is very hard to do, at least for me it's hard to do. They did listen allot more than your typical neocon would have.
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