6 votes

Obama re-election

I have a question for you guys.

So in my discussion with friends about voting third party, I have run across the argument far too often that an Obama reelection will completely destroy America and we won't have a recognizable country in 4 years to even try and fix. They even mentioned Wayne Root's recent endorsement of Romney in an argument with me about it.

Basically my question is what do you guys think about it? Will 4 more years of Obama really bring America to a point of no return or is that baseless rhetoric? I am basically looking for ammo to use in my quest to bring more votes to third party candidates.

Would seriously appreciate the help!!

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better idea

Realizing that voting third party, voting "Ron Paul", or staying home on my couch will put up to four Ginsbergs on the Supreme Court and allow President Obama to make four years of executive orders ranging from conducting whimsical wars to legislating amnesty - so far, I would prefer taking a chance on Romney. However, after the abuse at the RNC, giving assent to the abuser only promotes more abuse. So, what to do?

Find a Democrat equally disgusted with Obama who views Obama as the lesser of two evils. Both of you agree to not vote for either Romney or Obama and agree to vote for third party candidates of your respective choices instead. Agree to photograph and email the results of your votes on election day if possible to prove you held up your end of the deal and make it harder for one person to cheat. Spread the idea.

The result would be the one less vote for Obama and one less vote for Romney so neither of you would have to feel guilty for opening the door to Obama or Romney or helping to create a claimed "mandate". Third party candidates would be slightly empowered with the addition of your two votes. Most importantly, neither of you would be giving assent.

This isn't the same country as it was 12 years ago

The human being has a way of adapting to almost any circumstance. Look at how we live...then look at how people live in Somalia. Most of us would think "I cannot live in those circumstances...no clean water, no electricity, undependable food supply," yet the millions...nay, billions...who live in those circumstances daily are proof that we could be reduced to those conditions and continue to live...and we would come to think of it as entirely normal.

Before 12 years ago, a President was impeached for lying about diddling with an intern. Now Presidents make war, spy on us, kill anyone they don't like, give public money to friends...and get reelected.

The U.S. today is already different from the U.S. of the 1990's. But go back farther and compare to the 60's and 70's (my earliest point of reference), then compare with our parent's stories from pre-WWII. The freedoms we had in my childhood simply don't exist any more. If I think about it too much, I get deeply nostalgic for an era when starting a business did not require 18 permits, when guns weren't considered a health hazard, when the dollar was convertible into silver, when protesting against the government wasn't met by men in spacesuits, when flying didn't mean removing my shoes, and certainly no one imagined being electronically strip searched. My point is that our memories tell us we have been morphing, year by year, one administration at a time.

But there is another way. A boater with a dragging anchor knows that he is drifting into danger by observing stationary objects on shore. Simply sitting on the boat and relying on his memory of where he dropped the anchor in the water is nearly useless...the water all looks the same. He needs a clear, unchanging point of reference. For our society, it is our 223 year old Constitution that tells us how much we have changed. The fact that the Constitution, when read in light of government power today, is considered radical enough to put the constitutional advocate on a 'watch list' by the SPLC and the Fusion Centers means that our anchor has dragged and we are already on the rocks.

Obama and Romney will complete the job of ruining our country...compared to what we used to be. A vote for either one of them will give them a 'mandate' to finish the job. Not voting will not be counted and your voice will disappear. If, however, you vote for something closest to your real beliefs, you are telling Romney and Obama in no uncertain terms two things at once: This Is What I Believe, and You Do Not Have A Mandate From Me.

Short answer: we are screwed whether we have President Obama or President Romney. The best thing we can do is tell them they both suck.


Well done I agree 100%

For those that think their votes will count,

these are the points I've considered:

Vote for Romney because;
A. Lesser of two evils. Really? Is there ANY proof to that? We all know they're both the SAME on the issues, so who's to say he won't be the "same" in office OR WORSE? Lesser of two evils - That's JUST A GAMBLE folks. When you take into consideration that Romney's the biggest flip flopper and liar why should I bet he's the "lesser" of the evils? We constantly point out the argument that BOTH of these candidates are the SAME, and now after the conventions, we all know that BOTH the GOP AND DEMS are BOTH the SAME as well when it comes to corruption. As BAD as Obama has been, I'm not convinced with that argument unless someone here has a crystal ball.

Vote for Obama because;
A. 4 more years of Obama(if we last that long) as opposed to 8 years of Romney/Ryan and having LESS of a chance of getting a different RepubliCAN candidate into consideration.

B. Romney loses BADLY and in 4 years the GOP grudgingly accepts that they NEED the Paul/Libertarian vote as opposed to Romney winning and letting the world know that the Paul/Libertarian/Independent vote was a moot issue. In effect, the GOP didn't WANT us, NEED us, and they suffered ZERO consequences/blowback for what they did during the primaries and convention. They committed the crime, got away with it, and were rewarded in the end.

Vote for Gary Johnson because;
The closest candidate we have on the ballot in all 50 states that comes closest to Dr. Paul's policies. IF he gets to the debates he has a chance. I have to weigh my options when the time comes as to how realistically good Johnson's chances are in November, but I'm not hopeful for the same reason as below. People in general DON'T BELIEVE someone else has a chance.

Write In Dr. Paul because;
A. Protest and conscience vote. He won't win by write-in. I've spoken to COUNTLESS people who like Ron Paul, but as poited out above, THEY DON'T BELIEVE he has a chance at winning. They ultimately choose Romney as the lesser of two evils because they can't survive another 4 years. It's bad enough trying to wake people up, now we also have to convince them that he CAN win? The GOP is counting on THESE votes.

In conclusion, Romney and the GOP did NOT earn my respect or my vote, as a matter of fact, through their actions and treatment of Dr. Paul, the delegates, and the Paul/Liberty movement, THEY THREW IT AWAY! AS much as it pains me, after weighing all of the above options and possible outcomes, I can't help but vote for Obama, barring that Johnson actually has a shot in this come November.

If Dr. Paul was a younger man AND IF this country didn't have a chance of imploding due to the dollar's collapse and/or WWIII, I would have higher hopes for 2016. But say we DO make it to 2016, as it stands now due to the new rules, we now need 8 states to nominate him (or any other grassroots candidate). IF he gets 10 states, they'll change the rules on the spot again, AND/OR the "presumptive" nominee will VETO those delegates. IMO I don't think we have another 4 years left anyway - I hope I'm wrong.

Or maybe that's just what this country needs.....

The Lame Duck Coalition of 2012

Why an Obama victory in 2012 is the best possible outcome for the G.O.P., Conservatism, the Constitution and the Liberty Movement.


Well witten...

It sums up what I've been trying to say perfectly. Thanks for posting!

There's essentially no

There's essentially no difference between Rom and the current emperor, is there? Not on any of the big issues like warmongering, the monetary system, debt, civil liberties. This is obvious to you, right?

So just suggest to your brain washed friends that they start actively searching for news rather than having it force fed to them by Fox and the right wing radio GOP shills.

Give 'em a list of liberty oriented web sites and suggest they send a little time opening their minds to other points of view. Make this argument your home base in your battle against their ignorance.

If they're willing to consider other points of view, in time, they'll come around.

I must be willing to give up what I am in order to become what I will be. Albert Einstein

lindalsalisbury's picture

Defeat Romney, Impeach Obama

I like 3rd party support.

Support our Liberty Party 2016.

Good 1!

Should be a bumper sticker

I'd like to think

that an Obama re-election and a Republican congress would (at least) give us the appearances of more deadlock. I'd rather have the deadlock than Romney and company passing whatever the hell they want...

My Political Awakening: I Wanted to Change the World...
I am NOT Anti-America. America is Anti-Me - Lowkey
How to Handle POLICE STATE Encounters

There's not much either of

There's not much either of them can or are willing to do. Read http://www.market-ticker.org for some good explanations as to why. We are pretty much screwed regardless of who is elected POTUS.


Romney in office...

Will be exactly the same as Obama in office. The down sides of a Romney presidency far outweigh an Obama presidency.

4 more years of Obama and political gridlock is much better than 8 years of letting the wolf in the hen house.

Besides... after 4 more years of Obama we will have lots of awakened American's that will blame neocon policies that sent us down this road and neoliberal policies that buried us. A liberty candidate will be most welcome at that point.

If Romney is potus the republicans will get 100% of the credit for the collapse and we can move directly to communism as a solution.

I am just a casual observer

I think it would do massive damage to your country but 4 more years of Obama would allow time to get a liberty candidate on the republican bill (huge work to do I know).

A Romney win would increase the chances of a huge war in the middle east. You can repair a damaged economy but you can't take back a massive loss of life (and the blowback that that involves).

So while one result will be bad it can be repaired while the other would lead to a permanent stain on the reputation of the US.

Lord Acton, Lord Chief Justice of England, 1875 - "The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the People v. The Banks."

Really like the quote by Lord Acton.

To answer the threads question, I think our country is increasingly unrecognizable each passing day. If you had told Americans twenty years ago that we would have a national argument over what was acceptable torture you would have been told that all torture is evil by the majority of citizens. Now it is considered acceptable against anyone declared a "terrorist" by government.

If you had told Americans twenty years ago that the Federal government would have agents physically searching anyone boarding planes people would have said that the airlines would go out of business. If you had said that governmental agents could write their own warrants or kidnap people off the street and imprison them indefinitely most Americans would argue that these acts were against the Constitution. Today many Americans are more than willing to give up freedom for 'safety'.

I think our country is going to suffer severely under Obama or Romney. Don't think it will matter which one gets elected since they are both collecting 'donations' from the same corporations and taking orders from the same organizations ( Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission and Bilderbergers ).

I fear the government is going to come down very hard on the next group of people that protest government. Whether they call themselves the Tea Party or Occupy Wallstreet or something else, they are going to be made an example of by the centralized authoritarians after this next election. Hopefully we will be allowed to have an election in 2016.

Good thread, thanks for posting.