-58 votes

Do Truthers ever visit 9/11 Debunking sites?

Seriously, do you? I read both, Truther sites and debunking sites. I must say, Truther sites read like a bad (any) documentary from the Discovery Channel... I can hear Leonard Nemoy in the Background (accompanied by spooky 'In Search Of' music) 'Was WTC #7 brought down by explosives?'

Fun Project Read the theory / watch the YouTube clip of the Truther theory, and then just search for that theory on a debunking site. You will soon learn lots about Junk Science and how to identify it! Its fun!

Here is a good debunking site: http://www.debunking911.com/

BONUS! For the first Truther to claim that the debunking sites are secret government websites - I will personally +1 your comment!

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We can go all day on the cut

We can go all day on the cut beams...obviously with all the evidence now destroyed, neither one of us is going to convince the other who is right. I think I'm right and you think you're right. So, on the subject of cut beams, I think we can leave it at that. However, if you look at 9/11 as a whole, the totality of circumstances would probably lead a Grand Jury to believe that my version is more likely.

...also, since were on the subject of Grand Jury's, I'm very sure that the sworn testimony of multiple firemen claming to have observed molten steel on site would more than suffice as enough evidence for an indictment on the presence of molten steel...so there, you now have your evidence for molten steel. Now, you have to ask yourself. How did the molten steel get there?

fireant's picture

No sir, it is not a draw, and here's why.

Have you researched which tower those core beams were from?
Have you then researched early photographs to see if any of the core for that tower was sill standing?
If you can show the core portion of that tower was not standing immediately after the collapse, you got a slam dunk.
If that portion was standing, case closed. Move on.
If you are so sure that is evidence, why not help the cause and do some research? Or would you rather hold on to your claim it is proof because it fits your preconceived notion of truth?

Undo what Wilson did

I never said it was a

I never said it was a draw...what I said was you have your opinions and I have mine, we're not going to change each others minds.

fireant's picture

Just consider one thing about the cut beams.

Look at the slag on the cut surface. If those cuts were used to drop the building, that slag would not still be puffy and fresh. You would most likely see clean metal slide marks from the above part sliding off. You would also see heavy dinging from all the falling debris. Do those surfaces look like they went through exposed to the tower collapse? I'm not dismissing it out of hand, but that is not the evidence we need to prove demolition.

Undo what Wilson did

fireant's picture

Are you going to indict the molten steel?

Seriously, who are you going to indict because molten steel was reported in the basements?

Undo what Wilson did

Well you are the one who

Well you are the one who started talking about grand jurys...thats what grand jury's do...they indict.

fireant's picture

All the evidence has not been destroyed. This is my biggest

point. Do you not see what you do to your own mind? How can you claim "truth" and put forth such false information? You've boxed yourself into an intellectual corner. You want to sell me you have truth?
Here's the truth about physical evidence:
Physical remains of the destroyed buildings were hauled to 3 holding sites and held for six months while ASCE volunteers culled the debris looking of irregularities and taking samples. The remainder was then shipped off for recycling. There is an abundance photos and videos taken the day of and later which document the debris fields. There is an abundance of eye witness first responders who can be interviewed as to what they saw in the debris fields.
I really would like an answer. You do truth a disservice with such wild claims. If you wish to make a case the debris should not have been shipped off, I agree 100%. So instead of speculating it can only be because someone was trying to hide evidence, a seeker of truth will attempt to find out why it was shipped off. Have you bothered to try and find out why? I will guess no.
If you were my son I'd whop you upside the head for claiming truth and being so sloppy with your thinking.

Undo what Wilson did

Im going to flip your

Im going to flip your argument right back on you.....Where are the Boeing's that crashed into the field in Shanksville and the Pentagon? All the pictures, video, from both security cameras and news footage...yet no Boeing. You say no cut beams...I say no Boeings!

Grand jury standards, LMFAO!

Grand jury standards, LMFAO! You've got to be kidding me? The average douche would indict a ham sandwich in a New York second. Tell me you are really Michael Nystrom playing a mind Phuck on us all...

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere".
--Voltaire

It's hard not to be a menace to society when half the population is happy on their knees. - unknown

Surely you know that

Surely you know that Giulliani had all of the debris hauled off to China right after the collapses? Even the debris of WTC 7, which had already been evacuated, was removed.

fireant's picture

Not true.

It stayed in the holding yards six months while volunteer teams from the American Society of Civil Engineers culled through looking for abnormalities. Did you know that before making your claim, or did you just repeat something from a "truth" video? Do you think those engineers would miss a bunch of cut up members?
It is also a fact sir, that plenty of raw footage video of ground zero taken day of and later has been released in the last year and a half or so, not to mention an abundance of photographic evidence. To make the claim we have no access to the evidence is a canard. We also have hundreds of site workers to be interviewed.
I have to ask, since you are so sure the buildings were demoed, have you bothered to look for yourself to find evidence in the debris?

Undo what Wilson did

That is not what I have read,

That is not what I have read, and even if what you write is true, do you really think the authorities would have publicized abnormalities if there was inside involvement?

fireant's picture

From my experience with ASCE,

which was doing business with them many years ago, they were one of the most professional organizations I ever dealt with. I know that doesn't prove they weren't paid off or something, but if we go about thinking they are all part of a grand conspiracy, we'll never get anywhere. You have to start someplace. They were volunteer engineers you know, and yes, I think they would have pointed out abnormalities of cut members. In fact, they did point out abnormalities. Scroll down to "C Limited Metallurgical Examination"
http://books.google.com/books?id=PJ3bfaDVcvMC&pg=PR15&lpg=PR...

Undo what Wilson did

DP members should review fireant's and Bill Gillingham's posts

After 11 years since 911 and the information being available during all of those years, why now? Why your interest now fireant and Bill Gillingham? I mean the things you guys are saying and asking are as if you both recently crawled out from under a rock. I sincerely have to question your motives in keeping this and other threads alive with this game you are playing. I suggest that DP members review fireant's and Bill Gillingham's posts and draw your own conclusions.

Resist the temptation to feed the trolls.

they might be

the same person, shilling for her/himself.

That is entirely possible.

That is entirely possible.

Resist the temptation to feed the trolls.

Because 'you guys' keep bringing it up

... Because 'you guys' (I'm not allowed to use the term 'Truther') keep making posts about it on the DP 'The Smoking Gun. WTC7 taken down by CONTROLLED demolition. WTC1 and WTC2 as well. What are we to make of this?'

I'm tired of it. 'You guys' have latched onto the liberty movement. People think Ron Paul believes 9/11 was an inside job. I think MANY on the dp see 9/11 conspiracy posts and just ignore them - because to question you guys is tantamount to being a troll, member of the massad, a zionist, a doucebag, and hell - I don't know what else I have been called by 'you guys'. I don't think I stooped to that level.

Yes - look at my posts - read them... don't just down-vote them because they are a threat to your belief that the towers were brought down by thermite.

You are fighting a losing battle. I strongly suggest that 'you guys' drop the whole 'the towers were taken down by thermite' line and focus your efforts on the government's actions and reactions. I think the thermite thing is a red-herring... it is un-provable and you are in a stalemate as a movement. I seriously have to wonder if the thermite thing was created as a distraction.

I don't know fireant - he seems to be on the fence about what really happened - he just seems very realistic in his research on the subject.

So - I'll check on the one last post 'Bill Gillingham I am calling you out' - and then I am done with this thread.

I'm tired of it. 'You guys'

I'm tired of it. 'You guys' have latched onto the liberty movement. People think Ron Paul believes 9/11 was an inside job.

Very true - thanks to "you guys," I've had to spend inordinate amounts of time convincing people that Paul isn't "ONE OF THEM THAR 9/11 LOOSE CHANGE 'MURICA-BLAMERS." Please stop wrapping yourselves in the liberty movement, because we don't all buy into your so-called "truth movement," nor do we all unblinkingly accept its junk science, wild assumptions, and untruths as concrete fact.

I think MANY on the dp see 9/11 conspiracy posts and just ignore them - because to question you guys is tantamount to being a troll, member of the massad, a zionist, a doucebag, and hell - I don't know what else I have been called by 'you guys'.

This is also true. I've been called a disinfo shill, a retard, ignorant, told I don't care about the 9/11 victims, etc. simply for disagreeing with "you guys'" views on what happened that day. It's very off-putting and does your movement no favors.

I don't play, I commission the league.

You care too much what others

You care too much what others think. Tell the truth, and in the long run, people come to your side. Truth is more important than your feelings.

From what I've seen, you two

From what I've seen, you two guys keep bringing it up. I'm just pointing out that it is interesting, here and now, after 11 years. But as far as I'm concerned people are free to post whatever they want. I'm just making observations.

Resist the temptation to feed the trolls.

Couldn't the same question be posed to "you guys"?

Why are "you guys" still rehashing this after 11 years?

I don't play, I commission the league.

Dude, read my response to

Dude, read my response to your previous, wonderful post. Don't "you guys" me. I'm not rehashing jack.

Resist the temptation to feed the trolls.

fireant's picture

If I thought you were genuinely interested in why, I'd gladly

take the time to answer you. The timbre of your post however, suggests otherwise.
Please tell me, how do you reconcile the fact all visual evidence in the debris piles show the buildings came apart at their connections, and show no evidence of being cut? I'd really like to know, and can find no one here to give an explanation.

Undo what Wilson did

I assume this is a BIG GUB'MINT CONSPIRACY too?

If you "truthers" don't want people who disagree with your view to comment on your threads, don't flood the DP with your 9/11 theories, and by all means, join the rest of us here in 2012 who have more relevant, current concerns.

I don't play, I commission the league.

Assume whatever you like.

Assume whatever you like. I am not flooding the DP with 911 stuff, thank you very much. I'm pointing out that it's interesting that these two seem to have been oblivious to 911 until very recently. Read their posts, make your own judgement.

Resist the temptation to feed the trolls.

Evidence? here you go.

Eye witness accounts of molten melt in basement. See my post below. Please explain how it got there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy_jMrJGF9M

The video is more junk science

The man shows a video of molten metal coming from right where the plane came to rest in the tower. He says NIST says it is aluminum. 'But it can't be, because aluminum is silvery' - and he says this while showing PURE molten aluminum. Do you not realize that there is other stuff in the molten metal pouring from the tower? This is the junk science - he is comparing PURE molten aluminum with something that can't be pure.

The rest of his presentation is complete junk. He doesn't know how the fires below the debris could become hot enough to melt Steel? Really? How many stories of office debris was down there? How much carpet, ceiling tiles, chairs, books, plastic? And this is down in a porous environment - nice breezes blowing on the fire for weeks... and he can't fathom that it would get extremely hot?

Well - I know I said I wouldn't post any more... but with such a nice example of junk science, I couldn't resist.

fireant's picture

I don't know.

All I'm saying is, if the buildings were cut apart with thermate, the beams in the pile will show as cut. They don't. They show they came apart at the connections. I can't resolve the two. It doesn't add up.

Undo what Wilson did

Beams

There were probably a 100 times more beam that broke apart at there bolted joints than there were cut with cutting charges(if not more). So your insistence on this topic is silly. There are pictures of cut beams but they explain this as being part of the clean up. We may never know the answer to that question. We do know there was the molten metal in the basement. Cutting charges would explain this but your insistent that that didn't happen. So I repeat were did it come from!! And "I don't know" isn't good enough.

fireant's picture

Surely we could find even one beam which was cut apart, no?

I mean, there are thousands upon thousands in the debris pile. Just one. Show me.
Do you think you are going to take those blobs of mixed materials or eyewitness accounts of alleged molten steel to a grand jury and convince them the government demoed those buildings? Very doubtful. A cut beam would do the trick though. That's why I ask.
So again, IF that is evidence of thermate, there WILL be cut beams in the debris. Find me just one.

Undo what Wilson did