143 votes

I propose... An alliance!

I propose an alliance between two of the "factions" of the Liberty Movement.

I am a Gary Johnson supporter. Why? I hope to register a large enough percentage of a protest vote for Johnson to send a message. And if by some miracle he gets in the debates, we can position ourselves to win.

However, those who are going to write in Ron Paul? I totally get it. You guys aren't compromising, you're voting for the best man for the job. You don't care what they think, you're voting your heart, through and through.

I think that what you supporters of write in are doing something admirable. You've chosen to go for the best man for the job.

Johnson supporters have chosen to not go with the best man, but with a very good man who has more of a chance of winning. I can understand why you'd reject this, just from the standpoint of purity. I'm going to support Johnson.

But we need to make an alliance between ourselves, because we're supporting liberty candidates. We need to oppose the following three factions:

- the "vote for Romney because he's lesser of two evils" faction
- the "vote for Obama to spite the GOP/because he's lesser of two evils" faction
- the "let's not vote because it'll be rigged anyway" faction

I get it, people are lost and disappointed that we didn't get RP the GOP nomination. But what did we keep saying during the campaign? We kept saying that we weren't going to vote for the lesser of two evils, and that we weren't going to sit idly by.

Let's continue this movement through November and beyond. How? VOTE FOR A LIBERTY CANDIDATE. Either Ron Paul or Gary Johnson.

And Paul and Johnson supporters? Let's stop going for each other's throats for a while in order to combat the three aforementioned ideas, all of which are very dangerous ideas that could jeopardize the future of this movement, this country, and this world. I propose: an alliance.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
egapele's picture

***NOT TRUE***

You can abstain from the presidential vote but get your voice heard in some extremely important local / state elections.

YOUR VOTE MATTERS!!!

Who cares?

You're citing an article that says "being dependent on public programs and not self-reliant, code words for the agenda of America’s wealthiest 1 percent."
Seriously?

It's one thing to hate

It's one thing to hate somebody because they're rich... And it's another to hate someone that got rich from taking advantage of the government.

I don't think Garry used the government to his advantage, so in that case I respect him and idol his achievements.

He started a one-man hardware

He started a one-man hardware corner store. I think Gary clearly started in the bottom 99% and worked his way into the 1%.

I agree that people shouldn't get into or remain in the 1% by leveraging the government to subsidize their businesses, cripple their competition, and bend the laws in their favor. Agree heartily on that point.

But working your way from the ground up on your own effort and your own merit is one of the best examples of rags to riches that the free enterprise system makes available to anyone with the desire, persistence and competence to achieve it.

How can anyone in favor of basic human rights oppose that?

Just a FYI it was a handyman

Just a FYI it was a handyman business built into the largest construction business in the state.

-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

Thanks for the clarification

Thanks for the clarification :)

Why?

Why would anyone downvote you on this?

Eric Hoffer

The Republicans and Democrats would love to see...

The Republicans and Democrats would love to see...the libertarian movement split our votes between Ron Paul, Gary Johnson and any others.

In spite of the fact that I don't agree 100% with Gary Johnson, I'm willing to put aside those issues and support him. The different issues that we may all disagree with should be put aside... save those battles for another day or on the local, statewide or US Congressional level.

I think ANY liberty-minded person should recognize that Gary Johnson is the best bet we have going and we should put our differences aside and make every effort to see him included in the debates (at the very least) and vote for him in November.

Lastly... I love Ron Paul, but I'm also painfully aware of the fact that he is not running a write in campaign and is NOT asking for our votes.

Johnson is the only guy on

Johnson is the only guy on all ballots talking any sense, its sad that most of the things people look at in a president are not within his scope of authority. People are led by the nose by the media to focus on things not even within presidential authority.

Like Abortion for instance everyone wants to know what his stance is on Abortion. Who cares whether you're pro or anti he can do nothing for you on that issue! The President has no authority to do anything about abortion but he can bring the troops home, end the wars, cut spending, and by electing him break the two party stranglehold... Which would be a hell of a start in the direction of liberty and a monumental change most would be ecstatic about. But folks will say I can't vote for him he is anti or pro abortion when it doesn't matter.

-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

Bingo! Most insightful comment on the page.

This is exactly why libertarians have been able to support RP all these years, even though he is wrong on one issue. So what!?! He is humble enough not to insist he has all the answers, he cares about the Constitution and the law so he would try to do something he doesnt have authority on, so it doesnt matter!

Well I have been doing that since '88, voting for Dr Paul despite his one anti-liberty position because I am smart enough to notice it doesnt matter.

And, I know this will offend some people but in the end I think it's best to say what I say and let people take it how they will.

It's time for all these johnny-come-lately Paul supporters that just materialised out of the Huckabee-ignoramous wing and realised that issues of sound money and peaceful foreign policy actually matter within the past 10 years to buck up and do what the rest of us have been doing all along. Maybe if you keep thinking along these lines you will eventually understand why it isn't a liberty-focused position to want the police interfering in the relationship between a woman and a doctor... or maybe you wont. Even if you dont, the foolishness of opposing the single sane voice left in the race in terms of foreign and monetary policy because you dont understand enough to agree with his personal opinion on abortion, when his opinions on monetary and foreign policy would actually have affect and his opinion on abortion would not... the mind, it boggles, it truly do.

You dont like Gary Johnson's liberty-focused view on abortion? Boo-freaking-hoo. Get over it. His opinion on this one issue would no more be decisive than Dr. Pauls would have been. The President doesnt decide these things, folks, so it's foolish to predicate your vote on them!

There is only one liberty-minded candidate who is going to be on the ballot in enough states to have a possibility of winning. Gary Johnson. Dr. Paul, bless his heart, has decided to sit this one out. So your choice is easy. Governor Johnson, or more tyranny. Decide, and vote.

A question and a comment for you.

Question:

Was it President Bill Clinton who introduced partial birth abortion? Do we know for sure Presidents never get involved in this issue? I mean, they get involved in everything else they're not supposed to. However, I think most right-to-lifer's concern with this election is appointing the new Supreme Court Justices. They feel if they have a pro-life President, he will appoint pro-life Justices and repeal Roe v Wade. Of course, we on the DP know this wouldn't happen, because it hasn't happened yet since Reagan, as one by one appoint those who never repeal it. Anyway, aren't they all from or in bed with the CFR? (Council on Foreign Relations)

Personal Opinion – since you gave yours, I'd like to give mine:

The only reason for law is for the protection of our liberties. Exercising my right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness cannot violate anther's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness or I am in violation of the law. For example, it is anyone's right to get as drunk as he absolutely pleases (including liver damage and dying young, etc – that is his right) – but it is not his right to drive under the influence and kill innocent people. This has then moved out of the realm of his rights to their rights because he abused their right to life.

I'm sure you and those who love you are happy that your mother didn't exercise some supposed personal right to terminate you with an impersonal doctor (that she probably wouldn't even remember this doctor's name) – rather those who love you are grateful that she exercised YOUR right to LIFE itself! And thus you have a life. Without her decision for a baby's right to life, your heart would not be currently pumping; you could not even complain now, (albeit rightfully) about the state of our Nation, foreign policy, Federal Reserve, etc. You could not make a plea for Gary Johnson or anything else.

We're not talking about what color to paint the hospital. We're talking about “an act of violence committed against another person, albeit a small one in a special place” (Ron Paul from Liberty Defined) If these methods of termination were done to us after birth through any age, they would be considered torture and inhumane – which I'm sure you're against torture to the death.

Furthermore, research has shown terrible depression and suicides in women several years AFTER they've committed an abortion (Yes, I used the word committed because its violence and pre-meditated). In addition to that, women who've committed abortions also have a higher rate of breast cancer – how many women would want to sign up for these blessed “rights” several years into the future? As in many things in this system, people are not being told the full story. This frustrates we on the DP to no end in many, many areas – but cancer? Depression? Suicide?

I think this is a deeper issue than libertarians sometimes give it credit for, and I don't agree that the people who think they're exercising a fabricated “right” to terminate another life for their convenience win in the end. I think they lose the right of a clear conscience without the saving power of Christ and I think they lose health and I think we as a nation have probably lost some geniuses who would have invented some amazing medical cures – maybe even one that would have saved the lives of the parents, had they allowed that baby to live. What if our Nation wouldn't even be in its current deplorable state because of the Statesmen and Freedom Fighters whose lives were snuffed out? How many Ron Pauls have we as a Nation eliminated? I just think we need a balanced perspective on this. Even something as simple as property rights would be stronger if people and government didn't have the “right” to take a person's life simply because they didn't have a birthday yet. Property, sound money, soldier's lives, etc are all contingent upon right to life. Without it, we have no other rights.

OK

Was it President Bill Clinton who introduced partial birth abortion?

Nope. Not even close. The term was introduced by radical anti-liberty campaigners, the procedure by doctors, Mr. Clinton had nothing to do with either to the best of my knowledge.

Presidents have what we call 'the bully pulpit' - the best position in the nation from which to preach. Dr. Paul indicated he would use this to encourage mothers considering abortion to consider alternatives - and it's hard to disagree with that, that promise in fact united both pro-choice and pro-slavery people behind his campaign. But that is the extent of presidential 'power' on this issue - to make an argument, to use the bully pulpit, nothing more.

However, I think most right-to-lifer's concern with this election is appointing the new Supreme Court Justices. They feel if they have a pro-life President, he will appoint pro-life Justices and repeal Roe v Wade.

Supreme Court Justices, fortunately, are pretty independent. Either Dr. Paul or Gov. Johnson would be looking at the same short list of Justices that care about the Constitution, and neither one would have any effective way of making sure the one they nominate would follow their desires on any particular issue.

The only reason for law is for the protection of our liberties. Exercising my right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness cannot violate anther's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness or I am in violation of the law. For example, it is anyone's right to get as drunk as he absolutely pleases (including liver damage and dying young, etc – that is his right) – but it is not his right to drive under the influence and kill innocent people. This has then moved out of the realm of his rights to their rights because he abused their right to life.

I see nothing here to disagree with...

But for the rest, while I can see how the thoughts would make sense to you, ultimately they do not. You break the question down into the wrong parts and come up with the wrong answers. Let me give you the right questions! Can anyone else ever have a legitimate claim to your body? Without your explicit consent? We both know they cannot. If men got pregnant this entire argument would never come up and anyone that is even trying to appear honest has to admit that.

It's the height of absurdity to equate a single-celled organism with a human moral agent, yet anti-choice anti-liberty arguments have no other choice! You brought up religious references, have you actually read the Bible? Obviously you have not, because it gives a clear answer and it isnt the one you are giving.

Now I do believe in the Bible, but I dont believe it is supposed to have any special legal significance in our anglo-saxon system, still I will go along with you on this for the sake of argument and assume that traditional sources of law like the Bible are indeed to be given a privileged position - and cite Exodus 21, Leviticus 27, Numbers 3, 5, 31, second Samuel 12, and Hosea 9 and 13 just off the top of my head as indicating the Bible agrees with me and disagrees with you.

One cannot have any rights without first having a distinct, separate physical existence, something a fertilised human egg simply can not claim. A potential entity, existing wholly and entirely *inside* the body of an actual entity, cannot be claimed to have veto rights over the actual entity in sovereignty over her own body. It's absurd. And ultimately it leads to nothing but expanding police powers over our bodies, each and every one of us.

Thanks for the thoughts... It

Thanks for the thoughts... It is taken into consideration.

At this point though,to me, it's about sending a message. Garry and Ron don't really have a chance against the national media this election, but at least we can send a message.

I advocate either Ron Paul or Garry Johnson. Either one would send a message that a lot of people aren't buying into the status-quot.

Presidential politics is too corrupt

The next part of our journey as liberty activists has to be the Free State Project:

www.freestateproject.org

www.facebook.com/freestateproject.org

www.twitter.com/FreeStateNH

I agree

In VT, write-ins are still counted. So if you write in RP here, they will count the vote and it will show up. I'm mostly leaning towards GJ as he does have a better chance of winning. Either way, it will send the message where one of the potential GOP's vote went to.

However, those of you who are definitely writing in RP, go ahead and still do as I positive that like most people here, you are one of those who have been "awakened", but, would it be a problem if you mention Gary Johnson in your daily conversations? GJ has been included in at least one poll and as it turned out, 63% of them had no idea who he was.

So, what if RP supporters just mention him or help get the word out? Perhaps point people in the right direction in doing their own research? I mean, isn't that what RP wanted in the first place: For people to do their own research and make up their own mind? Might as well give them ALL the options.

Regardless on YOUR well-informed decision, good luck and God bless.

Write in Ron Paul

I for one will be writing in Ron Paul. I respect Gary Johnson very much, but I'm not voting for him. If other people want to vote differently than me then so be it. I'm proud to be part of the Ron Paul Revolution.

RPGF

But if you THINK,

then you will understand that both choices are not equal.

One is based on emotions, another is on rational thinking.

RP himself has no stance on such an intricate question (emotions vs reason), but Ayn Rand was clear enough.

I don't vote for GJ because I think he's a neocon

Not Sununu neocon but still neocon. I also made an other that it would be Ron Paul or none at all and I intend to keep that.

Both rational.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

On what basis?

Give me a single reason to believe you. I see none.

It wouldn't matter what I showed you or any other GJ fanboy.

You're deadset on putting him/A Libertarian in office. The information is out there to be had, in his own words.

There was a site that debunked his "fiscal greatness" in New Mexico. It actually showed that he increased spending.

On an Interview by the Daily Caller he came off as closer to a warhawk than a Libertarian by far.

On a Robert Wenzel interview he knew nothing about Libertarian views.

He has let people know who he really is. People just refuse to listen like the masses that buy into the repubes and the democraps line of shit.

I've displayed as others have a long list of issues and the best a GJ fanboy does is either completely ignore it or quietly vanish from the conversation after being proved wrong.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

I aksed for evidence you give me insults

That's enough right there to show it is you that has an agenda here.

I'm dead set on voting for liberty this year, as I have done every election since RP woke me up in '88. Not something I should be insulted for, here of all places.

Sure sure..

I told you it's out there and gave you a starting place.. Do your own work. I don't need your validation for my beliefs.

There has been plenty of discussions about some of his issues. Go look for yourself.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

But they are not

if you understand that GJ wont win this year. All your arguments about GJ's policies are irrelevant, it is about bringing LP into the major league.

The other part has nothing to do with rationality. If one decides to grow his hair long and keeps his word, that is something different.

I can only agree that rational thinking is not an abstract absolute, but a concrete instance of a particular brain. You did the best of your ability to think.

"All your arguments about GJ's policies are irrelevant, it is

about bringing LP into the major league."

Yeah, that's not absurd.. lol

I'm not going to further an organization that has put forth two candidates that have been neocon.

They have all of the bases loaded this go around bud. All you're going to do by playing is give them a run in. No matter which way you swing.. They control the Umpire, the referees, the field you're playing on, the equipment and all of the teams.

I bet you've never really thought about how people like Bob Barr and Wayne Allen Root could make it to the head of an organization like the LP have you? Do you really think all of the beltway "Libertarians" have left the power seats?

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

I have been of the "don't

I have been of the "don't vote its rigged" crowd but Gary Johnson will get my vote now as it is the best thing for the liberty movement right now.

He can win and here is why:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NXhoP5bQ2M

-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

Regardless of party affiliation, I as a Ron Paul Republican will

vote (as always) a Liberty candidate...and this year, that vote would apparently be Gary Johnson.

I will keep depriving the Establishment Duopoly syndicate of my vote...until they wake up and stay TRUE to Freedom, Liberty and to the US Constitution.

But by leaving the Republican

But by leaving the Republican Party, we are not changing the Party, remeber Rome was not built in one day,

changing parties is not like herpes....

You can change back in most states with little if any fanfare. This is why I wanted to have a republican revolt prior to the election for POTUS for those that could not vote for Liberty candidates on the GOP ticket between now and then. After the election we can go back to the ball and chain of the GOP, but what a shock it would be when many life long republicans leave in one day and register either Indy or Libertarian. Talk about making national news! "Until the GOP finds its way back to the constitution" should be the motto of such a defection, and there again you can rejoin in a week if that is your wish as changing parties does not have to be a permanent thing.

Always remember:
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." ~ Samuel Adams
If they hate us for our freedom, they must LOVE us now....

Stay IRATE, remain TIRELESS, an