90 votes

The Problems Oklahoma Dealt with from the Ron Paul Campaign State Coordinator

Oklahoma has been through a lot this election year. We had problems at our state convention, as many people know. But, it wasn’t just the “establishment” Republicans who we had problems with.

We also had problems with the Ron Paul National Campaign. We haven’t come out and said much about this, but I feel there is no reason to keep this under the radar anymore. This hasn’t been exactly a secret, but some of the details have not been out for all to see. We didn’t want this to cause the Campaign or us any problems back when this was all going down, but right now, I feel it would be beneficial to come out and say some more. I don’t want anyone to think the Ron Paul movement has some kind of tie or support to the person who caused us so much grief.

Back in January of this year, Al Gerhart (with the Sooner Tea Party), was appointed as the Oklahoma State Coordinator for the Ron Paul 2012 Campaign. This was a volunteer position. The end of January, I signed up as a volunteer for the campaign to be the Cherokee County Ron Paul 2012 Campaign Coordinator.

Because I was new to being very politically active, I met Al for the first time at the Ron Paul rally in Oklahoma City the end of February. What I encountered when I met Al was unique. But, it was just the beginning.

Being so new to being really active in the Party, I did not know the Ron Paul grassroots leadership who had been around since 2008, like Brady Wright, Lukus Collins, etc. I was slowly introduced to them via someone in my county, Shannon Grimes (who was also grassroots and had been around since 2008). But, this was a slow process over a month or two. When I signed up to be a county coordinator, I was told to not have contact with the grassroots supporters of Ron Paul. This made things rather difficult. I was torn between trying to coordinate both groups, yet not have contact with the one side.

We had great success in Cherokee County, Oklahoma. But, it had nothing to do with the campaign. I sent emails out to the identified RP supporters in our county and we had a great turn out at our County Convention. That night we came away with just over 50% of the delegates from my County. And it was all by God’s hand.

Anyways, what I attempted to do at first was have another friend be the contact point for the grassroots. But, this quickly showed it was not going to work. I tried to have this work as we were leading up to our District Convention. But, this is when I started to realize things were really fishy with the state coordinator that we had.

A few days before Oklahoma’s Congressional District 2 Convention, Al Gerhart sent an email out with instructions for everyone as to how to vote. The quote that got me was this,

“No doubt there are some grassroots candidates running for the same National Delegate slots but on Saturday you have a choice. Do you support Dr. Paul or do you support unofficial candidates that are unknown to the Ron Paul National Campaign.”

When he put the grassroots supporters up against Ron Paul, as if not voting for these “pre-approved delegates” was voting AGAINST Ron Paul, that was one of the first times I said, “I’m not doing what he says.” We were all in this for the same reason – to WIN delegates for Dr. Paul.

The supposed “vetting” process the delegates went through from the national campaign was simply Al Gerhart’s opinion of who he liked and who he didn’t like. I would later find out that this was not done by a committee of people (as the grassroots did leading up to the state convention to choose our delegate slate).

This email (which was very long), caused some people to not attend the District 2 Convention. People did not want to be directed by Al Gerhart or told they were doing wrong by not following his orders. This cost us delegates. The Convention in District 2 was run fairly and we lost the delegate vote by JUST TWO VOTES. Mr. Gerhart cost us a potential win in District 2. It should be noted that 3 of the 5 District Conventions in Oklahoma had a complete sweep for Ron Paul. They were all run fairly and they were all organized and coordinated by the grassroots. The one other district which we did not win was not run fairly and had a challenge at the state convention.

After the District 2 Convention, I decided to get more involved with the grassroots and forget about the fact that I was not supposed to have any tie with them as an “official volunteer campaign coordinator.” This was the best decision I made!

What I ended up doing, even though I had signed a non-disclosure agreement to be a county coordinator, was forward emails that were sent to the county coordinators to a select few of our grassroots leaders. I was watching emails come in to the county coordinators that laid out detailed plans of how to thwart and disrupt the planning and coordination of the grassroots. No, I am not kidding when I say this. I have a massive amount of emails to prove this.

I would receive emails that would tell the time, date & location of where a grassroots strategy meeting would be taking place. And Mr. Gerhart would specifically tell the county coordinators to go there, see what they are saying and try to change their plan. He would tell the county coordinators to try to tell the grassroots to work with the National campaign. Ha! What he didn’t realize is that WE (as in the grassroots) were more than willing to work with the campaign (and tried to more than once), but Mr. Gerhart was the one opposed to that. I know this sounds outrageous, and it is, but it’s what Oklahoma went through with the national campaign.

We could not take this any longer, so we sent an official request to the national campaign signed by 27 grassroots leaders in the Ron Paul/liberty movement in Oklahoma (I was one of the signatures) asking for the immediate termination of Mr. Gerhart. There were many more who would’ve signed this, but due to time constraints we had to send it with “just” 27 signatures. This was sent the beginning of April.

We made it very clear in this letter that there was nothing that Al was doing that we wanted to be a part of. We told them we didn’t have time for his distractions and wanted him gone right away. We gave examples of the problems he caused us, as well as the problems he caused the liberty movement in Oklahoma by acting inappropriately towards GOP Party leadership. This was not a light issue. We made our case very strongly and clearly. We requested a response from the Campaign within a few days.

Mr. Gerhart came back saying that the National Campaign had dismissed what we had brought forward and that he was in the clear. But, interestingly enough, he stepped down from the Campaign position just about a week or two after the letter was sent with not much of an explanation.

We were very glad to see this, because we did not want him around or trying to coordinate anything as we worked up to Oklahoma’s State Convention.

Of course, having the county coordinator position I had, I received a couple emails from Al regarding my signature on the letter. He wanted explanation before he “fired” me from the position. By that point in the game, I was well “entrenched” with the grassroots coordination and felt a response to Al would only hurt us more. So, I did not respond and ultimately things got quiet because he quickly “resigned.”

At the state committee meeting before Oklahoma’s state convention, he did more to put a bad light on Ron Paul supporters by making a big (unnecessary) scene there. There is question among the Ron Paul supporters in Oklahoma if Mr. Gerhart was even a Ron Paul supporter because of his ridiculous actions and statements. When I witnessed this at the state committee meeting, I was even more thankful that we had requested his removal, because I did not want him thinking he had some kind of role in our coordination and work at the state convention level.

Regardless, Mr. Gerhart did a lot of damage to us in Oklahoma, because many people in the “establishment” thought he represented us. He was the farthest thing from representing the liberty movement and Ron Paul supporters in Oklahoma.

I want this message to be sent to the OK GOP: The Ron Paul supporters in Oklahoma do not condone or support anything Al Gerhart does or stands for.

I also feel that Mr. Gerhart caused us a lot of hurt with regards to the National Campaign’s view of Oklahoma. It felt like we were the “red headed step child” after the state convention. We had so many issues at our state convention, yet the Campaign continually refused to help. Yes, we did reach out to them on more than one occasion (and by more than one of us) and never heard a response. Even when we were dealing with our contest to the RNC.

When I confronted John Tate about the Campaign’s lack of support for Oklahoma, it was obvious Mr. Gerhart had hurt us. John Tate acted as if Oklahoma wanted nothing to do with the campaign. If he talked to Mr. Gerhart, that is what you might get because he twisted so much.

But, if you would have talked to the grassroots, we would have accepted the Campaign’s help (and working with the grassroots) with open arms. We had leaders who would’ve stepped up to the plate – and were ready to long before Mr. Gerhart took the position.

Oklahoma continued to be shunned by the Campaign all through Tampa, but I don’t feel the need to go into all of that right now. I’ll just say it felt like being stabbed in the back – and I told John Tate that when I talked to him at 1:30am at the Marriot the week before the Convention.

Overall we learned a lot through this experience. And I hope the same mistakes won’t be repeated again. It wasn’t easy. But, what has been easy for Oklahoma this election cycle?

-Qadoshyah Fish




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Ron Paul

and his movement are grassroots. the people are grassroots. the movement is grassroots. the committees are part of grassroots.

maybe, if anything you ever said made the slightest bit of sense, you might not get down - voted on every single posting you make.

some people give you the benefit of the doubt on here. the more you post, the more they see you as an ignorant establishment shill that is willing to say anything in order to get people to do what you want.

the problem is - your ignorant, name calling, incoherent, rants - just make you seem more worthless every time you post something.

Your dividing, not helping.

Why are you going this route?

Who is "We're" is done with grassroots?

What makes you believe that these folks from Oklahoma have quit working the party?

Who says the campaign does not need, or want grassroots? I have not received an email stating that.

Maybe you should define what is grassroots?

The Liberty Movement is not going to move forward without grassroots. It won't happen. What we have today is because of grassroots. I would bet a far majority involved in the party from the Ron Paul side of things, came exactly from grassroots.

Emotion that alienates is not going to motivate.

The Granger's picture

You have not and will not recieve an email

Grassroots are those who

1. Refuse to become Republican
2. Refuse to attend or become a member of a central committee
3. Didn't even try to become a delagate
4. Think Meet up is the answer
5. Think sign waves, protests, rally's help Ron Paul
6. Anti-Establishment

I am NOT part of the "Liberty from the rEVOLution movement". I am a Ron Paul RepubliCAN in the Ron Paul rEVOLution in the GOP, where we fight FOR Restoring the Republic to Constitutional Government AS ESTABLISHMENT.

I was grassroots. In 07 I REFUSED to join the GOP, I tried to FORCE Ron Paul to do it my way by refusing to do it his way, JOIN THE GOP. This election I did it Ron Paul's way and the only regret I have is not doing it Ron Paul's way in 07.

If you did not do it Ron Paul's way, Ron Paul has a message for you: DO WHAT YOU WANT (no one cares what you do, it's all about you). If you did do what Ron Paul asked and joined the GOP, we are being informed to JOIN A COMMITTEE.

If you are not on a committee, or going as a guest to get a seat, and fighting for a committee seat, and holding the committee to the constitution.. you are doing YOUR THING, you are not working with Ron Paul, with the campaign.. It's that cut and dry.

We've moved on from grassroots. If you are still grassroots, you didn't get it. You're not getting it. What you are doing is twisting Ron Paul and his message to suit yourself and your own agenda. Have at it. Do what you want. You're on your own.

STAND WITH RAND 2016

Granger, your tone aside. I

Granger, your tone aside. I think a BIG part of the problem you are finding with push back has to do with your definition of grassroots.

I think it fair to say that there are grassroots RP supporters that are not Republican and that will not become Republican. That is okay, it really is. The diversity of action will only help us in time.

I myself am a grassroots activist. I've been involved since around 2007 and stayed involved. This coming year I'm even very likely to become my County Chair.

That doesn't make my way better. It is the way I think that I can best make a difference in the place where I live. It is the tool I have chosen to use. The party is a tool, not an end.

If the party can not be used to promote my liberty principles then the party is useless.

One of those principles is that it is okay for others to promote liberty their own way.

Cheers.

The Granger's picture

DocLiberty

My tone, is NOT understanding what the goal, purpose, and objective of non GOP grassroots. I'm not seeing "the end game". I'm not seeing how it ultimately achieves liberty. I'm not seeing how it's working in changing the establishment to free people from tyrany.

I get allot of insults, but I don't get many answers. Because I am searching for answers, the insults are easy to brush off. That's my tone, I'm here to please myself, educate myself, learn from those who have something to teach me that I admit, I'm not understanding. I don't mind or fear being WRONG. It's OK to be wrong because I'm willing to learn. And I don't give up until I do learn. That would be a shame to give up learning because of those who can not teach but want to harm for harms sake. I have a personal need to learn and understand, WHAT VALUE IS NON-GOP GRASSROOTS?

Now when you say, Republican grassroots are volunteers. Ok. That's not what we we call them, so there is a language difference. That's OK. But when you say, "diversity will help us in time." How? In time? When? I'm not seeing it.

How does one go from being even a grassroots Republican volunteer to a commiittee chair in a non election year? Please educate me.

I agree the party is a tool, so if one chooses to not use a tool that can actually work, how is that helping? The rEVOLution's goal is to restore the Republic to constitutional government. The GOP party is the tool to achieve that. What other tools are there that the GOP party does not have, that can be obtained, through division within other parties, or as Indy's, or not voting, or writing in votes that won't be counted? How is dilution a solution?

I think my problem is, I have a hard time accepting people's FEELINGS about how to achieve Liberty that have no experience, but a plan that goes long on pointing out problems yet has no solutions that actually work, voting third party, writing-in, not voting, voting for Obama.

I have no problem with people believing in Santa Claus, but to say that will bring gloabl peace, I have a problem with that. So whether it's beliving in Santa or some tool that has proven to not work, to react in vengence, promote hate and fearmongering in the name of Ron Paul and liberty.. I don't get it.

I am very grateful to Ron Paul and his campaign for what they gave me, a new politcal life, that comes with challenges and a great message. I don't expect us all to be able, willing and ready to go about materializing the message the same way. What I've been learning about other states and their GOP is very helpful to understand intrinsic differences that can be overcome. I do not know if those who are anti-establishment, hateful and fearmongering, have any tools that materialize the message. By all means they should do what they want, and from my committee seat I will certainly fight for their freedom, liberty and right to do what they want, even though, I sincerely don't understand them or how what they are doing is going to give me liberty and freedom to be myself and to do what I want. Do you know?

STAND WITH RAND 2016

you are so contradictory

when you say you wanna use the gop to help restore constitutional government, yet you constantly try to get people to vote for romney.

voting romney for constitutional government is the exact opposite of any logical thought.

romney and the rnc are the antithesis of constitutional government.

romney supports NDAA, he passed a gun ban, he is the father of obamacare, and his other positions change as he sees politically fit. he wouldn't shrink the gov't., he wouldn't balance the budget, he wouldn't bring the troops home and stop intervening with illegal wars, and the only thing different about his form of crony capitalism would be that it might go to a few different people than it would if obama was stealing and giving to his friends.

learn that.

that is what you should learn.

everyone knows that taking over the gop and getting liberty candidates in office is the best way to help get this country on the right track again.

what you advocate (voting romney to support liberty) is so assinine to anyone with a logical thought in their head that it makes everything else you say seem assinine.

then, of course, there is the fact that you think that your participation in the liberty movement is the only one that matters, and everyone else is just spinning their wheels.

you are condesending, contradictory, and you seem to have a hard time putting a coherent thought together.

The Granger's picture

I ask people to get committee seats

I'm not asking anyone to vote FOR Romney. Romney is getting my vote becasue I signed a loyatly oath and ,my ballot goes in a signed envelope, so I don't see the secrecy.. I really really want Obama to lose. But what others do, I have opinions about their choices, as they have opinions about mine.

It's not about Romney. There is NO presidential cndidate I like at all. There is no presidential candidate I could vote FOR. I have to look beyond the candidate and consider who empowers me best, and that's Romney because I am a Republican.

Obama is nothing like who he campaigned as.. he's Hillary because she controlls the committee seats. I believe Romney would be nothing as he campaigned as because Ron paul Republicans, oath keepers, constitutionalists, Palin Earthquakers, fiscal conservatives, nmone who voted for him in the primary are on the committee seats.

I don't think everyone knows taking the GOP is how we restore trhe Republic, nor do I think everyone even cares. I think everyone has their own interests and the majority are not with or in the GOP.

Have a nice posting day.

STAND WITH RAND 2016

another lie

you have multiple posts throughout DP stating that not voting for romney is voting for obama. also calling people names because they aren't voting for romney. all kinds of disparaging remarks to people that aren't voting romney.

if it sounds like a duck...it's probably a duck.

I hope that I have not come

I hope that I have not come across as insulting you. I have pointed out that regarding Oklahoma you are speaking from ignorance and judging by your experiences in CA which apparently is hugely different.

The party system in CA is obviously different than here in OK.

You obviously have a different definition of Grassroots than even most establishment Republicans I have met. The Republican grassroots in my mind and most that I have dealt with are the party activists that do the party work. Sometimes they hold offices within the party such as Precinct and county chairs or even others. More often than not they are just the Republican folks that show up to help even without being a Chair or on a Committee.

If you do not see what we are doing here in OK is "working in changing the establishment to free people from tyrany," then you are somehow not understanding or listening to what we in OK have been saying.

We're not talking about preaching to the choir feel good political protesting which is what you seem to equate to grassroots activism.

"What other tools are there that the GOP party does not have, that can be obtained, through division within other parties, or as Indy's, or not voting, or writing in votes that won't be counted? How is dilution a solution?"

I don't know how well their non-gop actions are going to work. But then, I'm not exactly sure how successful we will be in the GOP either. Trying is still the right thing to do though.

But that is part of the beauty of Free Market systems. Someone else may be seeing something that you and I are not. That is the diversity in action I speak of.

In my case and in yours we think that working in the GOP is our best avenue.

"How does one go from being even a grassroots Republican volunteer to a commiittee chair in a non election year? Please educate me."

Next year in OK we will be having precinct, county, district, and state conventions again. This time we will be electing Chairs, Vice Chairs, and other offices within the state party structure.

I do not know about the Committee you are on or at what level of state party structure it is. Here in OK the County Executive Board consists of County Chair, Vice Chair, State Committee Man & Woman, District Committee Man & Woman, and Precinct Chairs and Vice chairs.

Similarly the State Executive Committee consists of the County Chair/Vice Chairs, STate Committeeman/woman, plus the state level elected equivalents and Republicans holding state or national offices.

That is the bulk of the structure at any rate.

That is why I said you are bashing the very folks here in OK who are actually following the same path you are by working within and becoming the party.

I don't think your words are malicious just a bad combination of lacking humility and knowledge on the things regarding OK. You seem to be trying to fit everything into your understanding of how things work in CA and that is obviously not working, at least not regarding understanding the situation here in OK.

That is Okay. So long as you understand the things of CA and do the good work there that is what matters. We will continue the fight here.

I hope this my have cleared up things a little more. Cheers.

The Granger's picture

DocLiberty

Thank you for taking the time to explain.

"I hope that I have not come across as insulting you. I have pointed out that regarding Oklahoma you are speaking from ignorance and judging by your experiences in CA which apparently is hugely different."

The greatesy beauty, or agony of "Ron Paul rEVOLution" is the tremendous learning curve. I happen to love it, and so I ask a lot of questions and share my perspective in hopes of finding answers and understanding. That may appear ignorant, but to me, ignorance is not wanting to know. I may ask dumb questions, or be frustrating in my persistance, and I may be slow, but I'm not giving up. Of all the states working on ballot access for Ralph Nader's campaign OK was the most difficult. I only joined the GOP May of 2011. My ignorance was my fear of the GOP. O am learning that each state has it's own rules and laws, corruption, and problems in the GOP. It is not easy to understand the big differences within a party, if they are state laws, or county laws, or lack of laws that make each committee so different from each other.

"The party system in CA is obviously different than here in OK." YES!

"You obviously have a different definition of Grassroots than even most establishment Republicans I have met. The Republican grassroots in my mind and most that I have dealt with are the party activists that do the party work. Sometimes they hold offices within the party such as Precinct and county chairs or even others. More often than not they are just the Republican folks that show up to help even without being a Chair or on a Committee."

What you are discrribing to me are the established Republicans. We have no grassroots Republicans to my knowledge, we have sub committees and groups, such a Republican Women's Club that volunteer and they are given credit for their club, "The Women's Republican Club is hosting the Emken Luncheon", or "The Young Republicans of the College of the Redwoods is going to help with phone banking". We do not say, "Grassroots is going to help with the election headquarters", We would say, "Oath Keepers and Tea party have vo
volunteered to open and help with the election headquarters."

"If you do not see what we are doing here in OK is "working in changing the establishment to free people from tyrany," then you are somehow not understanding or listening to what we in OK have been saying."

I am somehow not understanding. I am listening, but having a hard time getting past this idea that it's sour grapes.

"We're not talking about preaching to the choir feel good political protesting which is what you seem to equate to grassroots activism."

Grassroots is what I did for 33 years, and I didn't do it for any party, but for issues that I believed needed to have attention.

//"What other tools are there that the GOP party does not have, that can be obtained, through division within other parties, or as Indy's, or not voting, or writing in votes that won't be counted? How is dilution a solution?"

I don't know how well their non-gop actions are going to work. But then, I'm not exactly sure how successful we will be in the GOP either. Trying is still the right thing to do though. //

I have no faith in non-gop actions because I did non-gop actions for decades and even when I won, I lost and that included working with Ralph Nader. I have a lot of respect for Nader and don't meet many people as smart, or who have taken on government more than Nader, so if Nader can't win, why would they? And why I am so grateful to Ron Paul for getting me off the street and into a seat.

"But that is part of the beauty of Free Market systems. Someone else may be seeing something that you and I are not. That is the diversity in action I speak of. "

I don't see a free market system, except illegal arms, drugs and sex trade.

"In my case and in yours we think that working in the GOP is our best avenue." That is correct for me.

//"How does one go from being even a grassroots Republican volunteer to a commiittee chair in a non election year? Please educate me."

Next year in OK we will be having precinct, county, district, and state conventions again. This time we will be electing Chairs, Vice Chairs, and other offices within the state party structure.//

Oh, OK. Here in CA, ot is every two years on the even numbered years, though a person can be appointed by an elected official.

"I do not know about the Committee you are on or at what level of state party structure it is. Here in OK the County Executive Board consists of County Chair, Vice Chair, State Committee Man & Woman, District Committee Man & Woman, and Precinct Chairs and Vice chairs."

The CG GOP has county districts where Republican registration equates into the number of seats in that district on the committee. Then we have a state central committee and this is for the chairs, and it meets at the state conventions, twice a year. I wonder if the County Executive Board is the same as the Central Committee as we have the same line uup, and that coralates with Roberts Rules of Order.

"That is why I said you are bashing the very folks here in OK who are actually following the same path you are by working within and becoming the party."

My path is the path I understood the Ron paul and the campaign wanted. Some here are calling me a liar and that it is not the path, but I don't know how I came into this direction of jooining the GOP to become a delegate and get a committee seat. Ron paul's campaign did not help me. I did it with no help and tremendous resistance from the committee. I attended meetings as a guest for over a year, took my own role call and held the committee to the by-laws.. so while they may not like me (and they are warming up), they do respect me. I've been winning debates recently, and some have been agreeing with me.. So I'm happy. It was worth the fight. I guess I could blame the campaign for not helping me,, but I don't see how that helps me or restoring the Republic.

"I don't think your words are malicious just a bad combination of lacking humility and knowledge on the things regarding OK. You seem to be trying to fit everything into your understanding of how things work in CA and that is obviously not working, at least not regarding understanding the situation here in OK."

I seek solutions. In 07 I lost my cottage because the landlord began having issues with me what I came out for Ron Paul (I took them to court and won) I had my car keyes, I have been through my own hell here and I could complain and blame, but I just fail to see what good it does besides put people who are not GOP, off the GOP.

"That is Okay. So long as you understand the things of CA and do the good work there that is what matters. We will continue the fight here."

Thank you

I hope this my have cleared up things a little more. Cheers."

It still appears as sour grapes to me blaming Al.. I liked what he said about the OKGOP, and Ron paul delegates. I've watched the Daily paul change it's name and it's mission, as it appears it has become a place that fears and loathes the GOP, so any post that feeds that, to me, is counterproductive if one would hope to grow the rEVOLution in the GOP. I found this post not reaching out to Ron paul Republicans, but more Ron paul campaign bashing, which the new crowd hear loves. So if it makes folks feel better.. OK, but I found it dissappointing and harmful to the Ron paul rEVOLution in the RepubliCAN Party. Rand Paul, Jesse benon John Tate and even Ron Paul are getting bashed here pretty frequently.. and now we can add AL from OK to that list.

Thank you fot the explaination and time to tell me.

STAND WITH RAND 2016

I can sincerely say that for

I can sincerely say that for me and most that I know here in OK we do not have much in the way of sour grapes towards Al or even the National Campaign.

Also, I was not using the word ignorant as a derogatory word but for what it is, lacking of knowledge, which I too do in many areas.

That would waste too much time and energy. The point of Qadoshyah's OP was not about sour grapes but about sharing information and experiences so that we can all compare and grow in our fight toward restoring our nation. There is too much to be done for us to be wasting effort being sour. Aware, certainly, but sour, no thanks.

Q is even today volunteering down at our county HQ and I will be down there this afternoon. We are continuing to participate in the GOP as we too see it as the best tool for our purposes (at least here in OK). And hey, we are members of our local Republican Woman's group too!!

It is nice that the party espouses the same principles we do now we just have to hold them to it.

The bottom line to borrow your word choices would be this. We are Republicans who are active in the Republican party and will continue to be so. The "We" I speak of is the very Republicans that had to make choices regarding sticking to our principle in the months leading up to and through the party conventions (and other activities in our state). Some of us even hold offices as county chairs among other offices.

Al Gerhart did damage to us Ron Paul Republicans both with his manner and his actions. That is beside his self confessed willingness to trade principle for political victory. We Ron Paul Republicans here in OK who had already become Delegates by our own work and coordination were faced with an incoming State Coordinator that behaved and spoke in way antithetical to the the example given by Ron Paul.

We did what we had to do both for our short term political success as well as our long term success as Ron Paul Republicans. We stood on principle and asked for him to be removed.

Now with Al back to doing his Sooner Teaparty thing full time he can toot his own horn, be loud, firm, and all that he wants. In that capacity he even does some good in exposing some things in OKC. As I have said elsewhere I will give him that credit as it is due.

Cheers

The Granger's picture

Thank you

I need to go, but wanted you to know I appreciate you taking the time and trying to explain to me, because I want to know. Yes, I share what I know about CA, not that I know it all, I don't, it's all I do know to compare to understand and I want to learn and understand. So I will come back to this post after work!

Again, THANK YOU!!!!!!!

STAND WITH RAND 2016

Guys, voting down Granger's

Guys, voting down Granger's post like this one is not productive. There isn't even anything in this one with which one can disagree.

Cheers

really?

so if romney started saying all the stuff you agree with, you'd suddenly believe him and not try to dismiss him...even though you know he is a liar and will say anything to get your vote?

i don't think so. i think you'd know he is a pathological liar and wouldn't all the sudden be sympathetic just because he said something you agree with.

granger has talked down to me, called me many names (even though she knows nothing about me), and tried to tell me my efforts for liberty are fruitless because i wasn't appointed to an empty committee seat like she was. to top it all off, she tries to convince me that romney is good for Ron Paul. pffffft.

i disagree with her as a person in general

No I certainly wouldn't

No I certainly wouldn't believe him as you say.

I do not know how Granger has talked to you. If her behavior is as you describe then I think she is wrong in doing so as well.

Name calling and talking down to each other gets us no where.

Nether does voting down posts, even unproblematic ones, just because of the poster doesn't either.

Note that I have typed at Granger a good bit in this thread now. I've even called her on what I perceived to be poor manner of reacting just as I did for you in the post above.

Doing so has allowed us to keep civil and actually make progress in cutting through the misunderstandings.

It would have been very easy for me to just get emotional, take offense, and get snippy. But if we get to that point it is just better to walk away as it is very unlikely anything productive will follow.

Cheers

I don't get your talk.

I am Liberty from the rEVOLution movement.

And I am still 100% grassroots.

And I am on the committee.

And I ...

What are you trying to prove? Because what you doing, is not working.

The Granger's picture

I'm not trying to proove anything

I'm sharing my experince as an example of what I know and understand, and asking how it is possible that you can be on a committee and 100% grassroots. It doesn't make sense to me. I don't see how that works. You're on a committee representing the establishment, that is what you are voted to do, and yet you are waving anti-establishment signs, and your committee thinks.. or it somehow does not mater what they think because, you have no loyalty oaths, no by-laws, no committee respources, or you are sharing those respources with the grassroots, and that is legal somehow? Are you working phone banks, working the Romney headquaters.. that's what the GOP is right now.. so please explain to me how your elected seat allows you to be grassroots?

STAND WITH RAND 2016

i got an idea

why don't you cancel you DP account, start a new account with a new name, and try talking sense on here instead of being a total establishment shill ignoramus.

you can catch more flys with honey.

and your argument is as ignorant and demeaning as they come.

My elected seat is as a voice of the people not establishment.

The establishment is the problem. I don't represent them.

I am not there to feed the establishment because that is what destroyed our nation. I am there to professionally point out where the establishment is at issue, and what the solutions are. I compliment when appropriate and encourage and help others in the party.
I learned that from Dr. Paul.

My loyalty is to the rule of law. And to have my voice heard, to make sure rules are followed in the party, and voice objection to when there is favoritism and no fair play for anyone.

I define grassroots as;
In touch with factual reality and educate on that.
Grassroots is creativity that professes honest integrity.
Grassroots is not afraid to point out errors in the system, in the party.
Grassroots conveys the spirit and voice of the common man.
Liberty grassroots has what the establishment doesn't - Liberty in their blood.

I am a Patriot.

The Granger's picture

Your elected seat makes you establishment

You represent the people that elected you by democratic process. You do not represent yourself, as that would be no diffeent than being Romney.

Being that you are establishment, you would be serving your constinuants by standing for the values and issues you campaigned on. I campaigned as a Ron Paul Republican, so I am standing for Ron Paul's message.

How are you professionally doing this? Are you being paid?

Rule of Law? You signed an oath to the rule of law? Can you show me your by-laws? Do you have a link to your committee?

STAND WITH RAND 2016

Pardon? Maybe for you, not for me.

I campaigned on RP principles. My local party doesn't back the RP message. Does yours?

Paid? I think the county chair gets some money as do some other officers. Does yours?

Yes the rule of law comes first. Then comes the party platform preamble, which I agree with. The platform has much I do not agree with. A platform should be one page. My county rules are awful, monarchical. Our chairman is a king. I suggest the rule changes on www.WNYRepublicans.com . Look under the Learn the Political Process link on the menu bar. And changes to our state committee rules are also there.

I filed a FOIL to get our country rules. They too are on the website. Our town refused to provide us with the town rules/bylaws. The county party attorney showed us one. Wonder why him? ... This can all be found at www.CheektowagaRepublicans.com.

Signed a party oath? Never heard of that. Nothing in the rules on it.

The Granger's picture

But you do not have a committee seat

My committee is backing Ron Paul's message now that the majority of new members are constitutionally grounded. My committee chair is a good guy, does not get paid.

I'll take a look when I come back, Thank you.

STAND WITH RAND 2016

Really? Guess you don't remember our previous conversations.

Look it up.

Pretty rough comment!

That's a harsh comment, considering moneybombs and even the slogan "r3VOLution" sprouted from the grassroots and not any official campaign strategy....

Ron Paul is my president. I am a Ron Paul Republican.

The Granger's picture

GOP is doing Moneybombs

Moneybombs became a campaign stratigy and grassroots PARTICPATED, that is all. They do not get credit and that is why it is now part of the REPUBLICAN ESTABLISHMENT and being implemented by GOP COMMITTEES, that grassroots are NOT PART OF.

Many grassroots grew into a Liberty Tree IN THE GOP. If you are not part of that Liberty Tree IN THE GOP, ON A COMMITTEE, as a guest on YOUR LOCAL BOARD OF SUPERVISORS< ELECTED SEAT REPUBLICAN Committee, you are doing your own thing.

You are NOT in contact with the campaign, you are no longer part of the rEVOLution. You are at best, part of an ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT Liberty FROM THE rEVOLUtion in the Republican Party Movement, plan on voting for the biggest fraud of then all, Republican wearing a LP button GJ, hi-jacking Ron Paul's name as a write in candidate, or planning on voting for Obama or doing NOTHING.

STAND WITH RAND 2016

Former Ron PaulPress Secretary Barcia stated on FB,

directed to me, that "The campaign is over. The Liberty movement endures. Address your grievances in the court of public opinion and hope that the jury is stacked in your favor, as we all must."

http://www.facebook.com/james.v.barcia
September 20, 2012

I also spoke to Deb Wells at the C4L, in which she confirmed that their main role is action in legislation. I am happy to hear this so it is known what is their focused role.

***

I am still 100% grassroots who became a committeeman and works the party. I then don't make sense in your version of things.

The Granger's picture

How do you do both?

And being on a committee, with the resources availbale to you, why would you even need to?

STAND WITH RAND 2016

Not sure what you mean.

Do both of what?

2012 was very hectic doe to promoting RP.

Our first county roundtable meeting last January. I stood inside the door to the restaurant/tavern and greeted everybody who walked in. I opened the door for all the women.

Each smiled, then their eye's would look at my small RP button. Some would smile back and some would turn away. I showed am I friendly, and courteous. Struck up some small talk with the chair, exec, former county executive, some county legislatures. Subtle stuff. But they know what I am about and that I know my s**t.

As I say, if your going to go up against a Ron Paul person, you better know your stuff.

Our local party doesn't really do anything. They have their secret meetings and just want committee people to be poop boys. So I don't put time into the party of what they want. However, I put the time in with the party from what I want. Like, having to figure out how to get into the state convention, which I did. I did this by setting them up. They knew it and couldn't deny me.

The Granger's picture

secret meetings?

secret meetings are central committee meetings? Committee seats are electd seats, so there should be no screcray, I don't know your state laws, executive committees have the right to have "secret meetinsg", but the committee is public and open to anyone. Do you have a link to the county central committee?

STAND WITH RAND 2016

Our county executive committee is about as secret as it gets.

I like to joke and call them our local Bilderbergers.

We don't know who they are, we don't know how many of them they are, their meetings are never announced.

I do not except endorsements from people who I don't even know if they actually exist as humans.

There Can Be No Representation Without Identification.

Our county meeting is not open to the public, invitation only.
\
Our town meetings, are secret as in, they discuss before the meeting in the backroom. They won't let us in. Then they come out and do the scripted meeting. The scripted meeting is open to the public.

***

What do you want to spy on me? Why do you want links to my town and county for? This is getting interesting.