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Ahmadinejad Embraces Jews, Rejects Zionism



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this is very . . .

patronizing--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Indeed

Have not you noticed that under GOOD ECONOMY our Libertarian ideas do not sell well based on their own logical strength?

no--

I started voting for Dr. Paul in 1988--

there have been quite a few 'good times' since then--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

God descides what are Israel's Borders, not men

I don't know what Bible these guys are reading. But mine says that after the nations invade Israel, known as the Gog Magog invasion of which Iran (Persia) will take part, then the Lord Jesus will return and kick those nations butts in battle, This is recorded in Ezekiel chapter 38 and 39. In Ezekiel chapter 47 verse 13 and onward tells us what the Messianic borders of Israel will be, and in Ezekiel 48:35 the city where Jesus shall rule from (Jerusalem) shall be known as "THE LORD IS THERE" For what God said are Israel's borders in the Torah see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_Land_of_Israel.jpg.

What you describe is orthodox futurism.

However there are other ways to interpret Ezekiel 38-39 and all the other texts used to prove this eschatology. History and current events are now validating another view which can be found here and is well worth reading:

http://gods-kingdom-ministries.net/teachings/books/the-strug...

The state we call "Israel" has no God given right to that name. It was given to the sons of Joseph whose national descendants are the nations of Europe and the European colonies including the USA. The reason that the people of the "Jewish" State have been allowed to occupy the land for the time being is that Jacob owed compensation to Esau for stealing his birthright. God has therefore arranged that Edom (the descendants of Esau) should be merged with Jewry in 126 B.C. by John Hyrcanus and that Jacob should be blinded to his own identity as the Union of Jacob (Great Britain) and compelled to give the land to the modern descendants of Edom in 1948.

The Neturei Carta are quite right in saying that the laws of tribulation forbid the return unless there is repentance and this can only be done when the "Jews" receive the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah. This is why the only way the return could be accomplished lawfully is due to the debt owed by Jacob to Esau.

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)

There are plenty of ways to misinterpret

You are right that the current state of Israel is not the same entity as the biblical land of Israel or name of Israel. But the british Israelite stuff is all based on myth and misunderstanding. The northern tribes were never 'lost' - the Assyrian Captivity affected only a small portion of the population, and even that portion eventually returned. The remnants of the northern kingdom are today called Samaritans, and a great number of Palestinian Arabs are their blood kin, even if converted.

The Jewish leaders of Babylon, under the authority of the Persian conquerer, returned to a land that had moved on since the exile of their ancestors, where they had no land. They solved this problem by adopting the most xenophobic definition of Jew possible, ruling most of the existing aristocratic marriages as impermissable 'foreign' mixtures, and then using this as a pretext to disposses any who would not divorce and disavow their 'foreign' wives. Many of these wives were Israelites of the northern tribes, others converts, even generational descendents of converts. Part of the whole process was redefining Israelites as 'Kuthites' and denying their actual ancestry.

So if the tribes were never lost, they obviously cant be found later in the US and UK. Although even if they were lost, there are other absurdities in that idea, but one is enough.

This is not a history I have ever heard of.

The evidence that the Israelites of the Northern Kingdom were taken into captivity by the Assyrians during the period 745 BC to 721 BC is both scriptural and extra Biblical. They were settled in the region between the Caspian Sea and the Euxine (Black) Sea. The Assyrians practised population transfers as a matter of policy.

Following this policy the Samaritans were descended from the peoples that were brought in by the Assyrians to settle the land and yes there were individuals of the Northern Kingdom who settled in the Southern Kingdom of Judah but they do not comprise the tribes themselves whose identity resides in the leaders of the tribes who went into captivity. If as you say these tribes had returned to the land then the prophecies of Hosea, Isaiah and Jeremiah would make no sense since they all speak of the LORD divorcing the House of Israel and sending her into exile. He then promises He will marry her again in the lands whereunto He has sent her. This would be impossible unless He Himself died and rose again to make this marriage lawful since the Law forbids remarriage after a divorce when the divorced wife consorts with other men.

In other words the promise the LORD gives to the House of Israel, as distinct from the House of Judah, presupposes the crucifixion and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Word made flesh, the Yahweh of the Tanach in human form, the promised Seed through whom the families of the Earth will be blessed.

It is regrettable that you have dismissed the history of the divorced nation of the House of Israel since there is adequate evidence from archaeological sources that the nations we know as the Celts, the Saxons, the Skuths, the Cimmerians, the Scythians and the Goths were all descended from the House of Israel. The Parthian Empire was one of the Romans' most powerful adversaries and it was ruled and populated by descendants of the Israelites. The first century Jewish historian Josephus made mention of these people and referred to them as living beyond the River and being an innumerable multitude.

Here is a short introduction to the knowledge I am referencing here:

http://gods-kingdom-ministries.net/teachings/books/who-is-an...

There is a great deal more and none of it is either "myth" or "misunderstanding". You have perhaps confused the information I have given with the teachings of British Israelism which have used some of this information to create a false gospel placing the ethnic British at the very centre of God's plans for mankind. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Zionists make the self same error.

A spiritual understanding of these events i.e. from God's point of view, must be consistent with the whole fabric of the Plan and Purpose of God. The difficulties arise when the scriptures are interpreted using the modern method that relies on a literal understanding that sets an unstable secular history above the Word of God and thereby renders the message of God incomprehensible. This is especially true of the orthodox teaching of the dispensationalist understanding of prophecy which places the "Jewish" State at the centre of its eschatology and relates everything to it.

The result of this has been to create for the Christian churches an idol that has taken the place of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself thereby resulting in the very apostasy these churches believe will precede the unveiling of the "man of sin". They have been blinded to the fact that these teachings are in fact a product of this "man of sin" who is resident in the carnal mind of every believer.

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)

It is nonetheless knowable.

Yes, unlike many other cases where details of scriptural accounts cannot be corroborated or contradicted, the evidence that the Israelites of the Northern Kingdom were taken into captivity by the Assyrians during the period 745 BC to 721 BC is both scriptural and extra Biblical.

Yes, the Assyrians themselves left us a monumental inscription recording their own version of the tale. It includes a count of the captives taken - 27,290 to be preciese. A number that would have been approximately consistent with the population of the capital city, nowhere near enough people to have represented the entire people of the northern tribes. It's consistent with the account of the Samaraitans themselves, that the royal family, the residents of the capital, and a few others were taken, leaving the 'people of the land' i.e. the rank and file Israelites to rebuild a devestated land without them. Kuthim were indeed imported as well, but again in much smaller proportions than the rabbis would have us believe.

It would really strain credulity to imagine that number was an underestimate. The Assyrians were big on counting things, they drug scribes everywhere they went to count their stuff. And they were proud of taking captives. This was their bragging. If anything we would suspect the actual number a bit smaller.

If as you say these tribes had returned to the land then the prophecies of Hosea, Isaiah and Jeremiah would make no sense since they all speak of the LORD divorcing the House of Israel and sending her into exile.

Either those prophecies are bunk, or you have been deceived in the interpretation of them. Which do you think is more likely?

It is regrettable that you have dismissed the history of the divorced nation of the House of Israel since there is adequate evidence from archaeological sources that the nations we know as the Celts, the Saxons, the Skuths, the Cimmerians, the Scythians and the Goths were all descended from the House of Israel.

Actually there isnt, and no competent archaeologist in the world would be caught dead saying such a thing. That's pseudohistory. One quick way to show it's nonsense is simply to investigate Y-Dna research, marvelous progress has been made in the last few years. Jews, along with all their close relatives, Samaritans, Lebanese, Jordanians, Egyptians, and Syrians, all consist primarily of J1, J2, and E Haplotypes. Note this is true even for instance for Ashekenazim, jews whose ancestors moved to Rome early on and from there up into central and then eastern europe, the ones that look just like Europeans. The Y-Dna still preserves the middle eastern patriarchal lineage.

On the other hand, your UK and USA population carries a very high proportion of typical western european haplotypes, R1 for instance - not close relations at all.

I repeat, either the scripture is proven nonsense, or you have misinterpreted. Which is more likely?

Or the evidence you are presenting has been misinterpreted.

A.S. I would like to draw your attention to the fact that in your first quotation of something I had written you added your own words to the words I had written. This is a very unusual practice to say the least. I will place a favourable interpretation on it and assume you did it in error.

The scriptures are quite clear about the divorce and captivity of the people of Northern Kingdom. The statements made by the Jewish historian Josephus and the references on the Behistun Rock clearly identify the Israelites as being who I have stated them to be and that they were innumerable in the first century A.D.

Personally I have always assumed that the appearance of Haplotype R in the populations of Europe and North America (my own country Scotland has a very high concentration of this Haplotype) was actually confirmation of the spread of the Israelites. Scotland was populated by immigrations in different periods from the P and Q Celts as well as Vikings and Danes who were descended primarily from the tribes of Dan and Benjamin. This can also be inferred from the coats of arms of many of the towns, cities, nations and families of the European nations. My own coat of arms of the Clan Donnachaidh contains three wolf heads. The wolf is associated with the tribe of Benjamin and is derived from the early Viking raiders and settlers from Norway.

A great deal depends upon the presuppositions with which one approaches the subject. I come from the view that the Word of God is preeminently the only source that can be fully trusted. This is turn can only be interpreted by the Holy Spirit who inspired the original writings. He is only given to those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

You appear to rely mainly on the modern scientific method which means that what you believe must necessarily change as new information comes to light. You are also guided as I am by your preferred presuppositions. These are the constants that divide us and will no doubt continue to do so. If your beliefs give you a secure foundation for your life and actions then by all means adhere to them.

It seems to me that we are too far apart in our understanding of what is known and what has gone before to be of any benefit to one another. I have been where you are and therefore can appreciate the certitude with which you have asserted your beliefs. The evolutionary mind sphere with all its contents is very accommodating to the natural intellect. It is rather reminiscent of our elastic money and likely shares the same provenance.

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)

Mea Culpa

My mistake on the quoting. It wont let me edit now, sorry.

Other than that, Josephus is indeed a very important source, and if you read him in the context of actually hearing the Samaritan side of the tale he is a strong witness for the basic truthfulness of their tale. But he has the dating wrong - the tanakh has it right.

The Behistun rock??? that doesnt mention any of these peoples, it's about the various Persian pretenders that Darius defeated. Just because you see "sakae" here and thousands of years later 'seacsson' in another place doesnt mean there is any connection between the words. There are only so many sounds and the same sequence is often used in two different languages without there being any connection. The sakae or scythians were the inhabitants of scythia - the seacssons or saxons were the sons of the 'seax'- the long-bladed fighting knife they relied on.

Anyway you are right about 'presuppositions' everyone has a few. I would be interested in hearing which of mine you disagree with.

I assume that He doesnt lie, first off. That should be fairly agreeable I would think. If that assumption isnt true then there is no point in going further for either of us. I dont assume that traditional interpretations are always correct, but go to the text itself, and consider it inside the total context. I assume that I was given a rational mind for a purpose, and am expected to apply it. When scholarship of the last few centuries has made discoveries that allow me to fill in that context and gain a more full understanding of the text, why would I not use them? Why would I not suspect immediately that those discoveries were meant, indeed, to be made at a particular time so that a particular aspect of the scriptures, previously hidden, becomes revealed?

And what else would you propose I rely on instead, if I am not supposed to think it through? If you are to take everything on blind faith, instead of testing all things, then you are still left with an irreducible problem - blind faith in what, exactly? One can pick any faith from Methodist to Animist and have blind faith in that, but without reason to give us grounds to judge, we cannot judge which, if any, of these faiths are correct.

God is a Zionist

Ezekiel indeed does describe the messianic borders of Israel when Christ returns in the future. But God made a covenant with Abraham, Issac and Jacob to give them the land of Canaan as an everlasting possession whose borders are described in Numbers 34:1-12. God's covenant with Israel is stated in

Genesis 17:7-8 "And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant,to be God to you and your descendants after you. "Also I give to you and your descendants after you the
land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."

Genesis 48:4 "and said to me, 'Behold, I will make you fruitful and
multiply you, and I will make of you a multitude of people, and give this land to your descendants after you as an everlasting possession.'

And God doesn't need America's or any other nation's help

to defend his territory!

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

In a way,

I think Iran is doomed if they DON'T get the bomb.

Weird how that works.

LOLOL Ron Paul is a friend of

LOLOL
Ron Paul is a friend of Iran and an enemy of the Jews. Lord Jesus isn't gonna kick any butts, it's not His style, but the slaughter of countless millions by those who pretend to follow His teachings might make you think so. The Islamic jihadists are doing their best to catch up to Christianity's long-standing record for gratuitous bloodshed, but even they have a long way to go.
The Nut-urei Karta is a fringe element of several hundred misguided haredim who consort with the sworn enemies of their religious brethren and are shunned by 99.9% of Jews.

You are exactly the type of greedy arrogant Likudist scum

Who squealed, shrieked and hoarded while Titus lay waste to Jerusalem 2000 years ago. Pathetic.

Junglebooger just say 'Jew'

It's a lot less hypocritical and captures what you REALLY mean.

I can't stand right wing extremist Likudists

Anymore than I can stand right wing extremist evangelicals.

If you think that's racist you're a moron.

By "consort with the sworn enemies"

you mean they refuse to be hate-mongering collectivists. Sorry buddy, more and more Jews are waking up to the evils of Zionism and choosing to embrace humanity. You can hate them all you like, but they are the future.

I'm sorry, I didn't know I'd

I'm sorry, I didn't know I'd just run into the message board for the Ahmadinejad fan club. Sorry, I won't bother you any more, especially if you're blind to the fact that the Iranian government is more of a threat to modern civilization than Israel will ever be. You can lead a fool to knowledge but you can't make him think.

Jesus will Defend Israel

The prophet Isaiah in Chapter 62:11-63:6 says the messiah will have his garments stained with the blood of the nations that attack Israel. His destruction of the nations armies who attack Israel is also mentioned in Revelation 19:21 - And the rest (the armies) were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

Please answer one question.

If indeed Jerusalem and the nation of "Israel" is completely destroyed would this convince you that your interpretation of these scriptures is possibly wrong?

There are other prophecies remaining to be fulfilled that apply in the "last days" to Edom , to Jerusalem and the nation of "Judah". These indicate an utter destruction probably by nuclear weapons that will prevent any rebuilding.

The people known as Israel in scriptures are the spiritual descendants of Abraham Isaac and Israel who are seeking "a city with foundations whose builder and architect is God". (Hebrews 11:10) This is not a piece of real estate in the Middle East. The national entity created at Mount Sinai under Moses later known as the Kingdom of Israel during the reigns of Saul, David and Solomon and later still the Northern Kingdom of that name are all physical types of the Kingdom of God.

These physical types were all fulfilled in the Lord Jesus Christ who is the true King of Israel and the last remnants of that physical nation were destroyed by the Romans in 73 AD at Masada and later in 135 AD under Bar Kokhba at which time they were forbidden entry to the land of Palestine "forever". This particular nation will never be rebuilt since it is being formed as a spiritual body in the heavenly realms to be revealed from thence in due time. The present political Zionist nation of "Israel" set up in Palestine is another entity entirely and is destined for destruction.

The rider on the white horse in Revelation 19 is the "Word of God" and the sword proceeding out of His mouth is the sword of the Spirit which is likewise the "Word of God". It is not a physical sword and it is used by the Spirit to destroy "all flesh" i.e. the carnality of the minds of men to prepare them for the revelation of the Kingdom of God within themselves and therefore their true identity.

The book of the Unveiling of Jesus Christ is a spiritual book addressed to those named as "overcomers" in the letters to the seven Churches in the Revelation chapters 2 and 3. For them it is in the nature of a training manual comprising the final instructions to be followed in gaining the victory over the world, the flesh and the devil within themselves. The final enemy to be overcome is death and these are those who will take part in the First Resurrection and are known as "the sons of God" who will be manifested to a waiting and groaning creation (Romans 8:18-25). They will then administer the will of God in His Kingdom on the Earth.

This book has been grievously misinterpreted by the carnal imaginations of men since the day it was written. In these last days of this Age there are those who have been given the true spiritual wisdom and revelation to make clear what it is the Spirit is saying to the Churches and to the overcomers. If you wish to know the mind of Christ on these matters please read the following series entitled "Revelation":

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/tablecontents.htm#REV

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)

But if you look

at Judeo-Christian scriptures and Koran, then god had decided that capitalism is not allowed.

It was termed usury. While Vatican does not stress it anymore (as it does not oppose to Christian-socialist parties in EU), people under Sharia Law are required to come up with bogus excuses to bypass that.

Linda Cross's picture

Capitalism is not usery,

Usury is interest which is against Christian and Muslim principals. Interest is what destroyed our economy. Interest is making money on money when gain should come from production, service and trade. The only time Jesus, pbuh, ever got angry was when he turned over the tables of the money changers in the temple. They were making money off money by charging interest, just like our bankers today.

If you see something, say something, the government is listening.
Silence isn't golden, it's yellow.

Cyril's picture

This is true.

This is true.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Stunning...

The fact that this conversation is even taking place is a huge step forward for peace. I pray for these individuals and the rest of us to do what we can to avert WWIII. May God Bless and Protect Us All!

UP4Liberty

Prayers Tonight For World Peace ♥

Prayers Tonight For World Peace ♥

Join me. A religion is not necessary to pray for LOVE ♥

I have cried happy tears since last night.

THIS SHOULD BE ALL OVER THE NEWS 24 hours a day Worldwide.

My Grandmother always told me: It takes two to fight. If ONE does not want to, then it is impossible.

Miracles Do Happen :)

Infinite Possibilities ♥ http://youtu.be/gJYwR6WiXfM

GOD BLESS US ALL ♥

Wisdom Strategies

I'm not sure whether to LOL

I'm not sure whether to LOL or facepalm at your Brobdingnagian and apparently willful ignorance and stupidity. NO good can or will come from this. Peace will come when the illegal jihadist regime that enslaves Iran is toppled.

Well: You Lead The Way. You Go First. Talk Is Cheap.

Well: You Lead The Way. You Go First. Talk Is Cheap.

Are you cheap? Is your keyboard "bravado" backed up by anything or are you worth as little as a piece of paper?

Go play Video Games unless you are serious.

Wisdom Strategies

except

that the way Iran is governed isn't the US people's or government's business.

Ahmadinejad isn't the 'good guy' that some would like to believe he is, but he and Iran are no threat to US soil. Several intelligence agencies have already debunked the propaganda about the Iranians having a nuke (and why shouldn't they have one? Israel has hundreds, after all.)

That said, If you're so concerned about the way Iran is governed, then nobody is stopping you from picking up a rifle.

A signature used to be here!

It isn't over yet.

http://www.commondreams.org/news2007/1220-02.htm
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