8 votes

Respected evangelical who states it is a spiritual war

This is an email exchange with a friend who is also involved in the political process. So working her could bear some fruit in the future.

Her husband was a minister, detective, and now is a town judge in a very large suburb.

She doesn't want to hear anything about history concerning the Middle East, Palestine, and all that. I win that hands down, she immediately moves the debate to God and Israel as the chosen people. This is not a strong point of mine and took it as far as I could.

She stated that this is a spiritual war being played as a physical one.

My last question was, "How can this be a spiritual war if the Jewish people are still wandering?"

She answered, "A huge gathering occurred already in the 80's. They were ALL let go from ALL communist/socialist countries. It did not mean they all chose to leave and go back to Israel. Some are as stiff necked as some gentiles. So the wandering in the desert is over for those who CHOSE to believe. "

If they back Israel for the second coming of Jesus, then this must include the destruction of the Koran with the Muslims.

Spiritual war?

***

We will be holding a U.S. foreign policy forum in the future where conversation will probably lead to this, by their direction. So I would like to get some feedback on the thought process's of such a person for debating purposes.

Anyone feel like chiming in?



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There is plenty of evidence for this.

There are actually Jewish organisations that have revealed the role of Zionism in the Holocaust. Both Hitler and the Zionists embraced antisemitism for their own reasons. Hitler because he ostensibly hated the role the Jews had played in beggaring Germany through the Versailles Treaty and due to the trade embargo that the Jewish international agencies enforced on Germany from 1933 onwards through their many global trading and banking entities. The Zionists because the existence of antisemitism, especially at the State level, fed into their plans to conquer the land of Palestine through immigration.

Here is one link from a Jewish group dealing with the issue you addressed:

http://jewsnotzionists.org/holocaust.htm

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)

Thanks.

.

These videos Explain it all...

Author: Walter J. Veith
http://amazingdiscoveries.tv/media/117/205-the-man-behind-th...
Description: The Bible and the Bible alone are used to identify the Antichrist power. The little horn power of Daniel 7 with its twelve clear identifying features points to the only one who can qualify as Antichrist. Modern day deceptions regarding the little horn power, the doctrines of preterism(that the Antichrist existed in the past) and futurism(that the Antichrist will come in the future) are contrasted with the plain Biblical teachings. The word of God is sharper than a double-edged sword cutting even to the marrow.

The Secret Behind Secret Societies
http://amazingdiscoveries.tv/media/123/211-the-secret-behind...

Description: Much has been written on secret societies and there are numerous speculations as to which powers control them.
The nature of secrecy is such that the real power behind the power should remain exactly that-Secret. In this lecture, clear evidence is provided to show who really stands behind the throne of Earthly power.

The UN and the Occult Agenda
Author: Walter J. Veith
http://amazingdiscoveries.tv/media/139/226-the-un-and-the-oc...

Description: Does the United Nations have only a political agenda or is there a spiritual or religious dimension to its activities? In this video, it is clearly exposed what the hidden agenda behind the scenes is all about. From its inception to its ultimate goal, the creation of a unitary political religious system is discussed which will have far-reaching consequences for every individual on earth and possible catastrophic consequences for those who trust in salvation in Christ alone. Includes a look at Robert Mueller's school and philosophy, and how the cosmic christ and the United Nations go together.

Revolutions, Tyrants & Wars
Author: Walter J. Veith

http://amazingdiscoveries.tv/media/128/215-revolutions-tyran...
Description: Revolutions, Tyrants & Wars need finance and support in order to succeed. Who is behind the major conflagrations which have plagued mankind particularly during the last centuries. Are sinister forces working behind the scenes to achieve their Hegelian synthesis and to bring about a new order of things? Some highlights discussed are the revolutions of the previous century, culminating in the rise of the USA, the Kennedy assassination, and the setting up of the new world order.

I have not watched these videos but I plan to

Are you saying Jesus Christ is not enough to get into Heaven? Can you explain a little about what you mean here?

Sorry to triple post, I have no idea how this happened. I only posted this once but it posted 3 times.

I have not watched these videos but I plan to

Are you saying Jesus Christ is not enough to get into Heaven? Can you explain a little about what you mean here?

I have not watched these videos but I plan to

Are you saying Jesus Christ is not enough to get into Heaven? Can you explain a little about what you mean here?

This is really heavy stuff.

Never heard of this website before. We will get into this a bit later.

To win the debate

with people who misinterpret scripture, I recommend the book, "Rapture, the end times error that leaves the Bible behind" by David Currie.

It is really incredible that our foreign policy is being driven by people who refuse to even look at critiques of the Darbyism/Scofield heresy they subscribe to.

If one's viewpoint cannot hold up to a challenge then it is not worth holding.

A good website is http://www.christianzionism.org

Stephen Sizer also has some excellent books like "Christian Zionism" and "Zion's Christian Soldiers."

Minnesota Mary

Thank you for the link and suggestions.

Yes, religious beliefs as the driving force for foreign policy is not good.

Much info in the articles section.

Appreciate the help. Here is a conclusion I get from her.

I can win the physical reality debate on the core cause of the mid east/isreal disaster. But, the "Rapture Christians/Christian Zionists" (are these the terms to use?), don't care about physical history as a whole, only parts, they then move the debate to the spiritual plane.

The protection for Israel is so great, that killing doesn't matter because repenting forgives it.

With the ignorance of history from the 20's with the driving out of Palestians, and they responding doesn't matter. But they accept history of the Palestians responding. Hence, they are a threat to Israel so the can be killed. Any body who is a threat to Israel can be killed.

Massive quoting of the Bible is from then on, which I will have another person present to counter.

But wow.

So we are looking to get one of those Bibles that is edited by Scofeld.

Well, if a third party actually comes to winning fruition , maybe a thing to do then is, let the Republican party become a religious sect for these folks. lol.

Why The Mid-East Bleeds

The first hour of this video is very educational on this question from a biblical standpoint. The conclusion unfortunately includes what seems to me to be an irrelevant critique on Calvinism. However the first hour is very much worth watching even if you disagree with the views on Calvinism and prophecy expressed in the conclusion.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7713806100545252588

One heck of a video.

It seems like we were watching about the Nazi's.

Thanks for breaking down what to watch and skip.

It has been an overload as it is.lol

It is really sad.

I just wish these types would experience war before they cheer it on. If it was not for religion and nationalism how could the rulers motivate their subjects to fight these wars?

The best way to turn this nation against these wars is...

to re-instate the draft and make those eligible for the draft range in age from 18 to 80.

Minnesota Mary

Great idea.

Also give each individual a monthly bill for the expenses and televise it live without propaganda. There needs to be one entire channel with constant death, destruction, and crying relatives. Gruesome, I know, but war is war.

It is spirtual - Wolves in sheep's clothing

How it was explained to me - in the Bible's account of the end of the world (Armageddon) the war is between those that believe in Jesus and those that don't. The only "religion" that does not believe in Jesus are the Jews. Even Muslims recognize Jesus as a prophet, just not the only prophet. I think the Jews claiming they are Gods chosen people have swayed a lot of Christians. My bible says I am God’s chosen.

That's right!

Those who follow Jesus are the chosen people. We are the descendants of Abraham as Jesus explained in John 8:31-59

Minnesota Mary

If they believe the spiritual

If they believe the spiritual war revolves around the Middle East they're lost.

The Jews are no longer God's 'chosen people.'... or rather, what makes up 'Israel?'

Is this a 'christian' pastor and wife who also celebrate the Babylonian holiday Easter and worship pagan gods?

More accurately, you aren't

More accurately, you aren't God's chosen person unless you receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and are born again. There are some people that are Jewish by heritage that are Christians. Not the majority, but the majority of most people may be unsaved as well.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

Up vote from me

It's the truth.

Matt 16:17-19

17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

These are the words of Jesus Christ and he plainly says he will give Peter the keys to the kingdom of Heaven. After Jesus was resurrected he told them to go and wait for the comforter to come. It was in the upper room where this happened. Peter shared the keys to the kingdom of heaven with all those who shared in the upper room experience that day. This was the keys Peter shared with those who .

Acts 2:38-39

38 Then Peter said to them,"Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."

This is the whole sermon for those who care know the truth.

Gen 1:1 - Acts 2:39

But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,Your young men shall see visions,Your old men shall dream dreams. 18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days;And they shall prophesy. 19 I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath:Blood and fire and vapor of smoke. 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness,And the moon into blood,Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD. 21 And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORDShall be saved.'
22 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know — 23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; 24 whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. 25 For David says concerning Him:
'I foresaw the LORD always before my face,For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken. 26 Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad;Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope. 27 For You will not leave my soul in Hades,Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption. 28 You have made known to me the ways of life;You will make me full of joy in Your presence.'
29 "Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, 31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
34 "For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
'The LORD said to my Lord,'Sit at My right hand, 35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."'
36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"
38 Then Peter said to them,"Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."

I didn't down vote you either.

But I disagree.

The born again thing, I will have to look into that also. As Catholic, we don't have that.

At least for me, the way majority that come out and say it, are the those Christian Zionists in which I am presently watching the video of recommended below.

That is what is funky. How can a person say they are born again, go head over heels about the bible, yet are a leading faction for the wars. I mean, some are just not caring about the blood. Can't understand that.

As Catholics...

we are born again in the regenerating waters of Baptism.

Minnesota Mary

No. You also have to be born again in spirit

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. John Chapter 3

However, if you are Catholic, you may not take the Holy Bible as the ultimate source of authority. This is a primary difference in Christians vs. Catholics along with the question of who Jesus is. Catholics believe in a "trinity"(language found nowhere in scripture as well as a doctrine with pagan origin) while Christians believe that Jesus was God manifest in the flesh.

One of the areas where the Catholics do it right is that they believe baptism is essential to salvation. But they err in baptizing infants as well as in failing to invoke the only name given unto men whereby we must be saved, which is Jesus.

I am for peace: but when I speak, they are for war. Ps 120:7
--
Better to be divided by truth than united in error.
--
The local church(not a building -a people) is the missing link. The time to build is now.

Actually you do, because it's

Actually you do, because it's part of the Holy Bible and what Jesus said. It's just catholic doctrine hides it.

Here's the passage. Fyi, I'm quoting the Douay-Rheims version, woohoo).
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%203&version...

John 3
3 And there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night, and said to him: Rabbi, we know that thou art come a teacher from God; for no man can do these signs which thou dost, unless God be with him.

3 Jesus answered, and said to him: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith to him: How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time into his mother's womb, and be born again?

5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh, is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit. 7 Wonder not, that I said to thee, you must be born again. 8 The Spirit breatheth where he will; and thou hearest his voice, but thou knowest not whence he cometh, and whither he goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

9 Nicodemus answered, and said to him: How can these things be done?
10 Jesus answered, and said to him: Art thou a master in Israel, and knowest not these things?

11 Amen, amen I say to thee, that we speak what we know, and we testify what we have seen, and you receive not our testimony. 12 If I have spoken to you earthly things, and you believe not; how will you believe, if I shall speak to you heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him, may not perish; but may have life everlasting.

16 For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world, but that the world may be saved by him.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

Catholics are born again at baptism.

I am getting a chime in from over my shoulder. lol ...

The Catholics are right to emphasize baptism

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:16

Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins. We are commanded to be baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ "for" the remission of sins.

And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Acts 22:16

The old hymn asks "Are you washed in the blood?" No one will enter heaven without being washed in the blood of Jesus.

Where the Catholics err is in requiring infants to be baptized and in failing to call on the NAME of Jesus at baptism.

I am for peace: but when I speak, they are for war. Ps 120:7
--
Better to be divided by truth than united in error.
--
The local church(not a building -a people) is the missing link. The time to build is now.

How do I have this wrong then?

Please explain the down vote.

As a practicing Catholic for the first 23 years of my life

I had no power over temptation because I was ignorant of my need to be born again of both the "water and the spirit".

Isolated within the Catholic Church of the 50's and 60's I was insulated from being born again in the spirit.

Then in my 25th year I was born again in the spirit in a Catholic High School cafeteria in a prayer service lead by an Irish rogue priest named Fr. Bill McCarthy. That's when my life began to look like an epic Bible story... I was like David v. Goliath... and my purpose in life became much bigger than the stuff in my life. Miraculous power flowed through my life everyday. But I noticed how rote and ceremonial most church services were after that and I floundered for 20 years.

At forty-five I was lead to a church in Baltimore where I was revived in that spiritual life and I received the gift of speaking in tongues or what some call the prayer language of the Holy Spirit.

When most of us pray we pray from our intellect. While intellect is powerful in this world it is no match for spiritual battle. The gift of tongues is a matter of approaching God as you would normally to pray -- but the big difference is that the Holy Spirit -- if you allow him -- takes over your praying. He knows better what I need and what I don't need.

It's like the difference between looking at a cardboard picture of a filet minion and eating a real one. Or like the difference between seeing pictures of lightning and having a bolt almost hit you.

I feel the power of the creator of the universe in my life. I don't have to inspire** myself or jack myself up. The Holy Spirit revives and breathes into me.

**in·spire
1. To affect, guide, or arouse by divine influence.
2. To fill with enlivening or exalting emotion:
6. To draw in (air) by inhaling.
7. Archaic root
a. To breathe on.
b. To breathe life into.