Respected evangelical who states it is a spiritual war
Submitted by tony m on Thu, 09/27/2012 - 10:53This is an email exchange with a friend who is also involved in the political process. So working her could bear some fruit in the future.
Her husband was a minister, detective, and now is a town judge in a very large suburb.
She doesn't want to hear anything about history concerning the Middle East, Palestine, and all that. I win that hands down, she immediately moves the debate to God and Israel as the chosen people. This is not a strong point of mine and took it as far as I could.
She stated that this is a spiritual war being played as a physical one.
My last question was, "How can this be a spiritual war if the Jewish people are still wandering?"
She answered, "A huge gathering occurred already in the 80's. They were ALL let go from ALL communist/socialist countries. It did not mean they all chose to leave and go back to Israel. Some are as stiff necked as some gentiles. So the wandering in the desert is over for those who CHOSE to believe. "
If they back Israel for the second coming of Jesus, then this must include the destruction of the Koran with the Muslims.
Spiritual war?
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We will be holding a U.S. foreign policy forum in the future where conversation will probably lead to this, by their direction. So I would like to get some feedback on the thought process's of such a person for debating purposes.
Anyone feel like chiming in?
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Thanks for breaking down what to watch and skip.
It has been an overload as it is.lol
It is really sad.
I just wish these types would experience war before they cheer it on. If it was not for religion and nationalism how could the rulers motivate their subjects to fight these wars?
The best way to turn this nation against these wars is...
to re-instate the draft and make those eligible for the draft range in age from 18 to 80.
Minnesota Mary
Great idea.
Also give each individual a monthly bill for the expenses and televise it live without propaganda. There needs to be one entire channel with constant death, destruction, and crying relatives. Gruesome, I know, but war is war.
It is spirtual - Wolves in sheep's clothing
How it was explained to me - in the Bible's account of the end of the world (Armageddon) the war is between those that believe in Jesus and those that don't. The only "religion" that does not believe in Jesus are the Jews. Even Muslims recognize Jesus as a prophet, just not the only prophet. I think the Jews claiming they are Gods chosen people have swayed a lot of Christians. My bible says I am God’s chosen.
That's right!
Those who follow Jesus are the chosen people. We are the descendants of Abraham as Jesus explained in John 8:31-59
Minnesota Mary
If they believe the spiritual
If they believe the spiritual war revolves around the Middle East they're lost.
The Jews are no longer God's 'chosen people.'... or rather, what makes up 'Israel?'
Is this a 'christian' pastor and wife who also celebrate the Babylonian holiday Easter and worship pagan gods?
More accurately, you aren't
More accurately, you aren't God's chosen person unless you receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and are born again. There are some people that are Jewish by heritage that are Christians. Not the majority, but the majority of most people may be unsaved as well.
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.
Up vote from me
It's the truth.
Matt 16:17-19
17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
These are the words of Jesus Christ and he plainly says he will give Peter the keys to the kingdom of Heaven. After Jesus was resurrected he told them to go and wait for the comforter to come. It was in the upper room where this happened. Peter shared the keys to the kingdom of heaven with all those who shared in the upper room experience that day. This was the keys Peter shared with those who .
Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said to them,"Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
This is the whole sermon for those who care know the truth.
Gen 1:1 - Acts 2:39
But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,Your young men shall see visions,Your old men shall dream dreams. 18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days;And they shall prophesy. 19 I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath:Blood and fire and vapor of smoke. 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness,And the moon into blood,Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD. 21 And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORDShall be saved.'
22 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know — 23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; 24 whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. 25 For David says concerning Him:
'I foresaw the LORD always before my face,For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken. 26 Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad;Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope. 27 For You will not leave my soul in Hades,Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption. 28 You have made known to me the ways of life;You will make me full of joy in Your presence.'
29 "Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, 31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
34 "For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
'The LORD said to my Lord,'Sit at My right hand, 35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."'
36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"
38 Then Peter said to them,"Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
I didn't down vote you either.
But I disagree.
The born again thing, I will have to look into that also. As Catholic, we don't have that.
At least for me, the way majority that come out and say it, are the those Christian Zionists in which I am presently watching the video of recommended below.
That is what is funky. How can a person say they are born again, go head over heels about the bible, yet are a leading faction for the wars. I mean, some are just not caring about the blood. Can't understand that.
As Catholics...
we are born again in the regenerating waters of Baptism.
Minnesota Mary
No. You also have to be born again in spirit
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. John Chapter 3
However, if you are Catholic, you may not take the Holy Bible as the ultimate source of authority. This is a primary difference in Christians vs. Catholics along with the question of who Jesus is. Catholics believe in a "trinity"(language found nowhere in scripture as well as a doctrine with pagan origin) while Christians believe that Jesus was God manifest in the flesh.
One of the areas where the Catholics do it right is that they believe baptism is essential to salvation. But they err in baptizing infants as well as in failing to invoke the only name given unto men whereby we must be saved, which is Jesus.
I am for peace: but when I speak, they are for war. Ps 120:7
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Better to be divided by truth than united in error.
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The local church(not a building -a people) is the missing link. Help build it now!
Actually you do, because it's
Actually you do, because it's part of the Holy Bible and what Jesus said. It's just catholic doctrine hides it.
Here's the passage. Fyi, I'm quoting the Douay-Rheims version, woohoo).
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%203&version...
John 3
3 And there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night, and said to him: Rabbi, we know that thou art come a teacher from God; for no man can do these signs which thou dost, unless God be with him.
3 Jesus answered, and said to him: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith to him: How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time into his mother's womb, and be born again?
5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh, is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit. 7 Wonder not, that I said to thee, you must be born again. 8 The Spirit breatheth where he will; and thou hearest his voice, but thou knowest not whence he cometh, and whither he goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered, and said to him: How can these things be done?
10 Jesus answered, and said to him: Art thou a master in Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Amen, amen I say to thee, that we speak what we know, and we testify what we have seen, and you receive not our testimony. 12 If I have spoken to you earthly things, and you believe not; how will you believe, if I shall speak to you heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him, may not perish; but may have life everlasting.
16 For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world, but that the world may be saved by him.
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.
Catholics are born again at baptism.
I am getting a chime in from over my shoulder. lol ...
The Catholics are right to emphasize baptism
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:16
Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins. We are commanded to be baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ "for" the remission of sins.
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Acts 22:16
The old hymn asks "Are you washed in the blood?" No one will enter heaven without being washed in the blood of Jesus.
Where the Catholics err is in requiring infants to be baptized and in failing to call on the NAME of Jesus at baptism.
I am for peace: but when I speak, they are for war. Ps 120:7
--
Better to be divided by truth than united in error.
--
The local church(not a building -a people) is the missing link. Help build it now!
How do I have this wrong then?
Please explain the down vote.
As a practicing Catholic for the first 23 years of my life
I had no power over temptation because I was ignorant of my need to be born again of both the "water and the spirit".
Isolated within the Catholic Church of the 50's and 60's I was insulated from being born again in the spirit.
Then in my 25th year I was born again in the spirit in a Catholic High School cafeteria in a prayer service lead by an Irish rogue priest named Fr. Bill McCarthy. That's when my life began to look like an epic Bible story... I was like David v. Goliath... and my purpose in life became much bigger than the stuff in my life. Miraculous power flowed through my life everyday. But I noticed how rote and ceremonial most church services were after that and I floundered for 20 years.
At forty-five I was lead to a church in Baltimore where I was revived in that spiritual life and I received the gift of speaking in tongues or what some call the prayer language of the Holy Spirit.
When most of us pray we pray from our intellect. While intellect is powerful in this world it is no match for spiritual battle. The gift of tongues is a matter of approaching God as you would normally to pray -- but the big difference is that the Holy Spirit -- if you allow him -- takes over your praying. He knows better what I need and what I don't need.
It's like the difference between looking at a cardboard picture of a filet minion and eating a real one. Or like the difference between seeing pictures of lightning and having a bolt almost hit you.
I feel the power of the creator of the universe in my life. I don't have to inspire** myself or jack myself up. The Holy Spirit revives and breathes into me.
**in·spire
1. To affect, guide, or arouse by divine influence.
2. To fill with enlivening or exalting emotion:
6. To draw in (air) by inhaling.
7. Archaic root
a. To breathe on.
b. To breathe life into.
The Real Question: "Will Americans Throw Off The Chains of 100 Years of Debt Slavery & Tax Bondage in 2012?" --Google that!
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Barracuda_Trader I appreciate your testimony
My dearest being raised Catholic also received the Holy Ghost at a charismatic youth camp. He said it was as simple as raising his hand when the youth leader asked who wanted to receive God's spirit. God, then led him into all truth regarding salvation as the scriptures promise.
The scriptures make a difference in the "gift" of tongues vs. the gift of the Holy Ghost which all those who are born again must receive. Not everyone must speak "in the church" in tongues. But they may pray this way alone.
The Bible speaks of "diverse" tongues. When someone receives the gift of the Holy Ghost, they speak in a language as the spirit gives utterance. This will be a language that they can pray in -"building up your most Holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost." That doesn't mean necessarily that they will operate in the "gift of tongues." Does that sound like your understanding as well or different?
I am for peace: but when I speak, they are for war. Ps 120:7
--
Better to be divided by truth than united in error.
--
The local church(not a building -a people) is the missing link. Help build it now!
I also don't agree with the new pope stating
a few years back that if you don't know Christ you can't go to heaven.
I see it as, when people meet their maker, they will be judged on how they treated other people. Not on their stated oath to God.
I don't accept that hundreds of years ago, some indigenous people, who never hurt anybody, and didn't know Christ, won't have eternal happiness, while someone who was born again but did hurt people, will.
Can you prove that Pope Benedict
said that those who don't know Jesus can't go to heaven. As a cradle Catholic who has studied the faith I have never heard that.
I'm going to do a little research in the Catholic Catechism and may get back to you.
Okay, here it is staight from the Catechism of the Catholic Church which Pope Benedict would never contradict.
Section 1260: "Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity."
Minnesota Mary
To prove that, I would have to do some research.
Which I never thought I would have a reason to do so. lol
I recall hearing that a few years ago?
You probably will beat me to it. If you do, please post. Thank you.
I'd like to suggest
Attending RENEW, Rites of Inniation for Catholic Adults, and purchase a copy of the "Catechism of the Catholic Church". It's the most profound book I have ever read. I attend Bible Study weekly, and go to confession, I love confession, at least twice a month.
I love being Catholic, I Adore my Church.
I was baptized Catholic when I was 18 months, though neither parent was Catholic. My Father was an Ayn Rand Objectivist, raised pagen and my Mom was raised Baptist, but my Father hated God with a passion, so she was unable to go to Church. None of us were able to go to Church. I rebelled as a teen and began going. I've attended many denominations, and explored Eastern Religion, occult and am finally home with my Catholic Church.. it never ceases to amaze me.
Mark 9: 38 - 43, 45, 47 - 48
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38 John said to him, "Teacher, we saw a man casting out demons in your name, and we forbade him, because he was not following us."
39 But Jesus said, "Do not forbid him; for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon after to speak evil of me.
40 For he that is not against us is for us.
41 For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you bear the name of Christ, will by no means lose his reward.
42 "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung round his neck and he were thrown into the sea.
43 And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.
45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell.
47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell,
48 where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.
STAND WITH RAND 2016
That's not how Catholic's see it
We are taught that it is not by good deeds one goes to heaven. What is good is subjective. One may think something is good, or it feels good to them, but another may not agree.
It is by faith one enters into heaven
“By grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God” (Eph. 2:8). - Ephesians 2: ...
It's not just Catholics who believe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y87VWzie0W8
STAND WITH RAND 2016
Not faith alone...
"You see, then, that it is by our actions that we are put right with God, and not by our faith alone." James 2:24
Minnesota Mary
Thank you
Actions that JUSTIFY our faith.
STAND WITH RAND 2016
"My answer is,
'Show me how anyone can have faith without actions. I will show you my faith by my actions.' Do you believe that there is only one God? Good! The demons also believe--and tremble with fear." James 2:18-19.
Minnesota Mary
I believe in the trinity
God Almight, the Holy Spirit and Lord Jesus Christ.
Tomorrow, as I do every Monday, I will go to feed nearly 100 people, all they can eat a lunch of organic vegetable and green salad, fruit salad, rice pilaf with sausage and vegetable stew, garlic bread, home made chocolate cake, brownies, fruit juice, milk, and coffee. After I cook, I will wash pots and pans, clean the kitchen, sweep and mop the floors with very little help and it will cost me to do this. I will have available donations of blankets, clothing, jackets, baby items, toiletries, information about where they can find a free room, gas coupons and some chow and water for the dogs.
Donations are welcome.
This does not include the work I do for my Church, or for my community as a volunteer who pays to be a volunteer with the hospital, historical society, and my Grange.
Maybe God will find mercy for me, as I do have FAITH in God more than in my actions, KNOWING I am a sinner, without even trying.
I am told by many people that they are very grateful for my services and that if everyone did half of what I do the world would be a better place. I also raise chickens, organic pastured hormone free and give my eggs to charity and make many contributions to organizations seeking help.
I do what I do because I Adore God and love people.
STAND WITH RAND 2016
I think you will find people
I think you will find people who turn that around, and try to have actions without faith. 'What does it matter if I don't believe in Jesus Christ and repent. I do good things'.
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.
That is true.
.
john 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.