-13 votes

Question for Truthers

Hello fellow DPers:
First of all, let me admit that I'm not a truther. There are many circumstances surrounding 9/11 events that I would characterize as shady, but I've not made the leap to becoming a truther for a few reasons. I've noticed that the whole debate deals with issues about the ability of a steel building collapsing, inability of the government to recognize violation of air space, ability of unarmed terrorists to take control of planes, Building 7, BBC reporting of Building 7 etc. I will leave these issues aside, because I want to approach this topic differently. My main issue with 9/11 truther theory is that the motive of the terrorists/Al Qaeda gets lost:

Why would Bin Laden admit to committing these attacks?
If Bin Laden did not attack us, wouldn't that mean that there's actually very little blow back from American foreign policy?
Bush may have had a motive to go to war, but if he planned the attack, why wouldn't he have framed the attackers to be the Iraqi government?
How would you prevent one of the thousands of people involved from coming out and becoming a media prize? As bad as the media is, they love stuff like that.

I'm posing these questions because I hope to bring a different perspective into this issue.

On a separate note, I rem ember a fellow DPer posting something that dealt with the history of wars in the U.S: Spanish American War was not about the Maine, WW1 was not about the Lucitania, Pearl Harbor was not a surprise, ..., Vietnam, all the wars that follow, etc. I agreed with everything except the "..." in which the poster said that Hitler did not want to take over the world and exterminate the Jews. I mention this because the poster got many up votes, and although he made a lot of fantastic points, I just wanted to confirm that the "..." is not the prevailing opinion of the DP community? I don't know where this theory even comes from.

EDIT: A truther is someone that firmly believes that the U.S. government planned the attacks.

Cheers



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You say you are not a "truther"

Then in the very next sentence you say, "many circumstances surrounding 9/11 events that I would characterize as shady". By definition you would like the truth about what happened and have reason to believe that has not been brought out, so there is reason to question the official story. Barring any textbook definition of "truther", I'm thinking that you are a truther.

Who are you talking about?

"How would you prevent one of the thousands of people involved from coming out and becoming a media prize? As bad as the media is, they love stuff like that."

Thousands of people? Why do you assume thousands of people were "involved"? Let me put it this way: How many thousands of people do you think are actively in collusion and knowingly hijacking our political system and why haven't they come out to be a media prize? Now answer your own question. :-)

Wouldn't common sense dictate...

that thousands of people, or at least several hundred, would NEED to be "involved" in this conspiracy? Especially considering how bloated our federal government is?

How many thousands of people do you think are actively in collusion and knowingly hijacking our political system and why haven't they come out to be a media prize?

Because they stand to make money and gain power letting it happen. Likewise, if it was actually an inside job, don't you think the Democrats - who would have stood to gain a LOT - would have absolutely ethered Bush with that in 2004? Don't you think at least one person wouldn't be able to pass up the book deals, the speaking tours, the media tours, etc.?

I don't play, I commission the league.

This is not an '80s movie.

I think its been proven over and over at the DP that the D/R thing is a tag team operation to take America down. The two sides never, ever get down to air the dirtiest laundry on each other. I suspect there were lots of "democrats" also involved. The reason the republicans didn't go after Clinton for selling weapon tech to China through Loral is because some of them would have been implicated.

Let's look at who's who in the MIC, and we'll find democrats and republicans. The media is controlled 90%, that much we know. We have seen the Operation Mockingbird documents. Let's look at those who try to blow the whistle, like Sibel Edmonds. The mainstream press won't touch stuff like that, because reporters like Gary Webb end up shooting themslelves in the head twice when they stumble on CIA ops.

Do we forget so soon how our own Dr. Paul was blacked out from media coverage? You had to seek out your Paul news, not just turn on the TV and passively wait for info, like so many Americans do today.

The real world is not an '80s movie, where corruption is discovered and an intrepid reporter is on the scene, mike in hand.

Yeah...

I think its been proven over and over at the DP that the D/R thing is a tag team operation to take America down.

That's true, but the two-party dynamic still exists only because Democrats and Republicans still want all the power for themselves.

I don't play, I commission the league.

Thanks

You make the point well. But I will add that one of the key words here is "knowingly". Take for instance the main stream news. Most people on TV are simply liberally minded people and are just willingly doing their job and don't consider their own bias. They are ignorant pawns who help to perpetuate the deception but have no conscious understanding of just what they are doing. They don't come forward because they don't realize they are part of the problem.

People think that everyone who contributes to a conspiracy is aware of their contribution but I think there are "relatively" very few who actually need to know the big picture to carry out a conspiracy. And as you have pointed out, if anyone does become wise and speaks out then they are ignored or eliminated.

Compartmentalization and ignorance

are the biggest weapons against us. My dad always used to tell me that newspeople just read the news off a prompter, so I never held them in high regard.

People in the media and in beauracracy are mindless repeater beacons creating a web of deceit. You can translate this idea into all levels of society. For instance, the military had all sorts of drills being run on 9/11. This pattern of deciet is 100 years in progress.

Osama Bin Ladin never took credit for the attacks...

Full text of September 2001 Pakistani paper’s “exclusive” interview with Usamah Bin-Ladin

http://www.globalresearch.ca/interview-with-osama-bin-laden-...

"I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle," Bin Laden told the Pakistani-based Ummat newspaper.

Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/

DOHA, Qatar (CNN) -- Islamic militant leader Osama bin Laden, the man the United States considers the prime suspect in last week's terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, denied any role Sunday in the actions believed to have killed thousands.

In a statement issued to the Arabic satellite channel Al Jazeera, based in Qatar, bin Laden said, "The U.S. government has consistently blamed me for being behind every occasion its enemies attack it.

"I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks, which seems to have been planned by people for personal reasons," bin Laden's statement said.

"I have been living in the Islamic emirate of Afghanistan and following its leaders' rules. The current leader does not allow me to exercise such operations," bin Laden said.

=====================================

"The greatest mystery of all is truth." - Me, 2009

re Records of 911

+1, thanks for posting, and making available the relevant records.

1. The videos of Osama claiming to having done the planning.....

.......are questionable at best and, depending who you believe, have already been proven fraudulent.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/osamatape.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/former-cia-officials-admit-to-fa...

2. If you don't count revolutions around the world going back to the the 1800's as evidence of blowback to America's foreign policy, then there is not enough evidence in the world to convince you of reality. Read General Smedley Butler's book.

http://www.amazon.com/Maverick-Marine-Contradictions-America...

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html

3. If you knew anything about George W. Bush you would realize he was incapable of planning a trip to the restroom by himself. He was a stooge. There were plans to go to war with Iraq before 9/11, 9/11 simply provided an excuse to attack. Why? Look at a world map and notice Iraq is centrally located and provides easy access to other countries with oil. Research an organization called 'Project for the New American Century'.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm ( Letter to President Clinton encouraging an aggressive policy towards Iraq in 1998 )

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

4. Most media in the USA is owned by five corporations. The CEO's of these corporations determine what is news, and more importantly, what is not news. They control information and knowledge. You can see numerous videos on the internet with people giving eyewitness testimony concerning 9/11 which contradicts the official governmental conspiracy theory. Many videos by police and firefighters that were among the first to respond give testimony about explosions which are discounted by the mass media and the government.

http://www.wifp.org/MassMedia.html#anchor1030579

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/tenants1.html ( List of tenants in Twin Towers on 9/11 )

On Sept. 10th 2001, the Sec. of Defense Rumsfeld gave a press conference stating the DoD had 'misplaced' 2.3 Trillion dollars http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU4GdHLUHwU

The Pentagon section struck by a plane on 9/11/2001 happened to house the investigation of the missing money.

One of the tenants in the Twin Towers was the Securities and Exchange Commission which was investigating Bush for the Enron scandal, just one among many other corporate securities frauds being investigated. All the evidence disappeared on 9/11/2001 into the pulverized ash of the Twin Towers and Building #7.

We are talking about the wealth and domination of the entire planet. Why would elitists shirk from killing thousands of people to gain so much power.

"A Single Death is a Tragedy; a Million Deaths is a Statistic": attributed to Josef Stalin.

Questions for "non-truthers".

1. Why is there NO security camera footage from Logan Airport showing the 19 suspects boarding the aircraft? Every airport I have visited since the 1980s has security cameras in the ticketing area.
2. Why were there no Arabs listed on the passenger manifests of the doomed aircraft?
3. Why did the USAF coroners office find no Semites (Jews or Arabs) among the passenger remains?
4. Why did the FBI confiscate, then refuse to release the security camera footage from 911 recorded by a convenience store and bank in view of the Pentagon?
5. Why did the FBI release the "dancing Israeli" MOSSAD agents, who returned to Israel and stated on Israeli TV, they had been observing the WTC on 911 to "record the event"?
6. Why was the first civilian aircraft allowed to leave after the post 911 lockdown a business jet carrying the family of Osami Bin Laden?
7. Why did Fox News report Bin Laden died in 2001?
8. Why did the Secret Service violate emergency protocol and deliver George W. Bush to a school full of children AFTER the collision by the first aircraft and allow him to remain AFTER the collision of the second?
9. What happened to the video footage from the 85 security cameras mounted on the side of the Pentagon hit by the "aircraft"?
10. Why was there no report of "jet wash" from freeway drivers in the immediate vicinity of the Pentagon as the aircraft approached?
11. What happened to the $2.3 TRILLION dollars reported missing by Defense Secretary Rumsfeld on September 10, 2001 BEFORE all but two of the military auditors were conveniently killed when the "aircraft" hit the Pentagon on September 11?

Note: I have not even started with the technical information from the Architects for 911 Truth, the Firefighters for 911 Truth nor the Pilots for 911 Truth.

Where do you get your info that

the SS violated emergency protocol by delivering GWB to a school full of children after the collision by the first aircraft and allow him to remain after the collision of the second?

According to the book "Al Qaeda" by BBC journalist Jane Corbin, Bush was at the school when the first plane hit and the SS informed him it was probably an accident. After the second plane hit, they informed him that we were being attacked and he quickly ended the reading session with the kids and left the school.

Apparently you haven't seen

Apparently you haven't seen the Video where Bush slipped-up and Said he saw the Plane hit the WTC on a T.V. at the school when it hadn't been released to the Media yet.How do you explain that one??
Hope that bastard rots in Hell.I don't know how he can sleep at night.

So what?

What exactly does that prove? Bush could have seen the first plane on tv after it had already hit the tower and just messed up when he related it. Maybe he didn't see it on tv at all at the school and got discombobulated. He had a tendency to do that. Or, maybe he was just outright and intentionally lying to make it seem to the people he was talking to that he empathized with the victims. Whatever the reason for his slip-up, that slip-up doesn't prove or even hint that Bush had anything to do with the 9/11 attacks.

Dubya said it himself

I think theres a vid out there, I know that I have seen it.
Dubya says that he saw the FIRST PLANE HIT prior to going into tne classroom.

I sure as F-#* know exactly where I was on that day... As well as the day Military Operations began against Iraq as Desert Storm.

But Dubya claims he saw the 1st plane hit LIVE.

I will look for that vid in a bit.

found

They are called 9/11 Deniers

If we are going to call each other names. I prefer the truth myself.

1. There is video evidence 3.

1. There is video evidence
3. Do they list the passengers name as John Smith (Jew) ?

Those are your 2 points I take issue with.

Bin Laden didn't admit it.

The only evidence claiming he did was via a video release shortly after of a "fat Bin Laden."

Bin Laden was never fat.

He was quite frail.

The guy in the video also writes with his right hand. Bin Laden is/was, left handed.

The video is a fraud.

Bin Laden specifically DENIED involvement in the attacks shortly after they occurred. (within a couple of days I believe)

The Fat Bin Laden tape was "found" a few weeks later by "US Forces."

Well, let's see..

#1 The Bush and Bin Laden family go way back. Bin Laden and the Mujahadeen are CIA assets from the 1970s, a fact that everyone, including Hillary Clinton admits. The Bush and Bin Laden families go back to the Arbusto Energy Company, which was owened by George W and purportedly invested in by Salem Bin Laden (Osama's brother) through go-between agent James Bath. George Sr, was at a Carlyle Group meeting (venture capital firm focusing on defense) of which he was an unofficial employee along with one of the Bin Ladens.

#2 According to Dr. Pieczenik, a psychiatrist, State Department official, and big time insider, Osama Bin Laden had Marfan Syndrome and died a few months after 9/11. If he was at the end of his life-span, he'd make the perfect fall guy. One can't help but notice that the "videos" of him released over the years got fishier and phonier.

#3 Read The Grand Chessboard by Brzeznski, the man who set up the Mujahadeen to begin with. Both Afghanistan and Iraq are listed as geopolitical pivots desirable for conquest of the gameboard: Eurasia.

#4 The blowback comes from the ignorant that join up with Al Qaeda and truly think that they are fighting foreign imperialism. Yes, there is a surprisingly low amount of it, given how the central banking/MIC has treated so much of the world.

#5 The media is 90% controlled by just six corporations. Just listen to the exact same talking points that they put out simulataniously. This is part of Operation Mockingbird, and the control of the media was noted back in 1917 by Representative Oscar Calloway, saying that the big papers and wire services were bought up by JP Morgan et al. The 10% alternative media that you are currently enjoying does highlight those who have said something. Let me just list a few:

Barry Jennings - said he stepped over bodies in the floor of WTC7 as he was being dragged out, died of a heart attack a few years after coming out.
The DC Madam - prior to spilling the beans in court was strung up in her mom's tool shed after stating that she would not commit suicide on national radio.
Sibel Edmonds - The FBI interpreter who tried to blow the whistle on security breaches, her testimony was ignored by the 9/11 commission.
Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer - also ignored by the 9/11 commission, ran the Able Danger program that identified over half the hijackers, including Mohammed Atta. Was told to drop it.
Lots more people with illustrious backgrounds here:
http://patriotsquestion911.com/

Lots to investigate here if you dare.

Please post where and when Bin Laden said he did it.

Then we'll post some video of the real Bin laden and let you try and convince us that they are one and the same.

Wha? .....hey....who stole my country?

I'm

not seeing where he said he did it. All he's saying is the attacks were but a reaction from previous wrong doings....basically explaining why they occurred..but i don't see admittance anywhere in here.

Great video though...if it was translated correctly.

No not the video with condescending potty mouth...

comments about truthers super imposed over Bin Laden giving his opinions on world affairs and the "operations" in New York. The one where he says I/we did it. I'm sorry but this is just as easy to see as Bin laden simply expositing on the reasons for these "operations" as Silverstein was saying "pull it" about the firemen and not the building. So which is it? Which one can we "read in to"?

Look, I don't know what happened that day, and like 90% of the "truthers" I know, who have no idea what the true story is, I'd simply like to know. What I do know, is that the story we were given is a lie as steel, like it or not, has known properties.

Have you ever gone to the Citizens Investigation Team at Pentaconned and viewed every interview they did with all of the non-media employed eyewitness's? Have you listened to April Flowers and the phone conversation with the loading dock guard in the South Parking lot? Can you explain all of these anomalies to me? Maybe then you will have relevance.

Wha? .....hey....who stole my country?

Which Bin Laden are you speaking of?

Different Bin Laden's said different things. Immediately after 9/11, one Bin Laden said he had absolutely nothing to do with it. He even swore by his God.

A couple of months later, another Bin Laden, this time right handed and wearing jewelry and having a different shaped face, said he did it and congratulated the attackers.

Odd, wouldn't you say?

As far as why Bush & Company didn't frame Saddam if their goal was to attack Iraq, I can only speculate. We don't know if the attack was planned by the Bush Administration. We don't know exactly who planned the attack. However, it seems to me that pinning it on a shadowy character instead of a living breathing person makes sense if the goal is a 'war on terror.' Otherwise it would just be a War on Iraq, and that would be over at some point.

I don't like to go speculating too much. If there is ever a real investigation, maybe we can put to rest the idea that our government, or a rogue portion of it, was behind the attacks. Until that day, however, there will always be this circumstantial evidence that can be interpreted as supporting the theory of an inside job.