84 votes

Is it about Gary, or is it about a 3rd party?

There are 4 registered Republicans in our family, all will be voting for Gary Johnson. We love Ron Paul, we like Gary Johnson, but we are not voting for Gary with an expectation of winning. We are voting for Gary to give a 3rd party some kind of chance, some kind of traction in 2016.

If Gary gets at least 5% of the vote, that means the libs get something like $30-$35 million in matching campaign funds in 2016.

If the 2 party system throws up 2 more clowns in 2016, I want a 3rd party to start to be significant. What if Ron Paul runs in 2016 as a Lib candidate? It would be nice to have him come out of the gate with $30 million.

I am truly a lib, vote your heart, but for those undecided about what they are going to do, I urge all 3rd party voters to come together and make a 3rd choice part of the system. We need to get 5% of the vote.

Ron Paul has been saying for years a 3rd party can't get the money to run. He would have ran 3rd party if this was different, well, we can make it different, otherwise we are scattered just like the other 2 parties want us to be. I hope the undecided can see the bigger picture.

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So the LP will get federal funds?

Hmmm... anyone see the irony here besides me?

vote my conscious

From now on, I am voting my conscious. I don't think adding another party will make a difference. I will vote for the person represents my opinion about where our country should go. Maybe withdrawing consent by not voting for lesser evils, is a way to make this happen. On a political level I would like to see Libertarians, Constitutionalists, run for more local offices. We need to prove to the public that freedom and responsibility will make their lives better.


A very apt depiction here


For the record, if I could, I would vote for Gary Johnson.

strategic voting

... is what sheople do. I am an individual. I will decide ... on November 6th, 2012 and no sooner ... whom I will vote for. "Locking in your vote" is for idiots. Mail ballots and internet voting and "projected results" are for the brain-damaged masses. I will decide at the 11:11th hour and no sooner based on ALL available information. No vote which comes from the heart can ever be "wasted" . . .

Wake up America !!!!


Whoever and Whatever champions the Constitution and the Common Law Doctrine that it is derived from, is what it is all about.

In this case it is still about supporting the only one that would limit the federal government to it's DELEGATED powers.

And that someone is still Ron Paul.

So long as Gary Johnson keeps clinging onto such ridiculous notions such as the Fairtax which will allow the federal government more power, support and finance wasteful undelegated bureaucracies and privileges; and allow the federal government to invade further state and local laws, he has no credibility.

If he puts that down and looks to return to the ORIGINAL Constitution of "enumerated" taxation only though import taxes and collected only After it has been enumerated and consented to;

AND stop trying to fix unconstitutional i.e. UNDELEGATED federal programs, bureaucracies and Powers; leaving such decisions (and programs) to be implemented by the states...

Then he may have some credibility;

But so far I see nothing but another promoter of travesty by someone (Gary Johnson) simply being ignorant of the principles and documents that define the Constitution and limit the powers of the federal government.

We already have two other candidates doing that;

We don't need another one.

RichardTaylorAPP - Chair - American Patriot Party.CC

John Locke #201, 202, 212 to 232; Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions 1798; Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788; Rights of the Colonists 1772.

Does your state...

Count write-ins? Then Great! But what if it's not counted - at all?

The difference between Gary Johnson and the other two clowns is that he is teachable. That said, if you really want to write in Ron Paul, you might want to consider getting enough signatures together to get him counted (as most states require a petition).

I don't think either will win, but I would like for the Republican party to actually SEE where their votes went to.

I for one will be spreading the word on Gary Johnson and the fact that here in VT, write-ins are definitely counted. If people are going to vote for ANYONE, might as well be a truly informed vote.

Pretty sure it's still about

Pretty sure it's still about Ron Paul.

Simple Facts and Plain Arguments
A common sense take on politics and current events.


Yep, Ron Paul made a big mistake this time.

If he had ran third party from the start wouldn't this year have been a whole different election? At least I think he would have won the popular vote going up against these two clowns.


I don't know, I think I found

I don't know, I think I found him because he was a republican and because he was in the debates. I got 3 other people to vote for him and put bumper stickers on our cars. I am not sure how I would have found him if he ran 3rd party. Besides, from what I hear Ron Paul RepubliCANS are taking over the GOP for the cause of Liberty. That in the long run may go a long way to provide true liberty candidates to the mainstream populace. Just my humble opinion. I am a new comer after all...

While I'd love to see a Money Bomb for Johnson

I think we should at least have a chip-in sponsored by daily paul. We could do this for both Gary Johnson and Jill Stein, both of whom should be in the debates. A full on money bomb may not get a lot of Factions within this movement but A forum to raise money for alternative candidates NEEDS to be HERE. A money bomb for the libertarian party would be fine by me, but I still don't think you will get full support from all Factions for that. We need to channel our resources to all other options besides the Republicrats. Whether that is Johnson, Stein, or write in ron paul. We need to stick together, respect, and help facilitate mutual goals no matter how different the individually preferred efforts.

if you dislike obama and romney

voting for Johnson is good especially in states where Obama or Romney are going to win anyway.

Let's say you really disike romney but dislike obama even more and you live in california-vote for Johnson as Obama is going to win anyway.

Or let's say you really dislike obama but dislike romney even more and you live in Wyoming-vote for Johnson as Romney is going to win anyway.

A strong third party johnson showing would be a good thing

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vote up my money bomb for Gary Johnson post!? think about it


A true flower can not blossom without sunlight and a true man can not live without love.

in effect, this is a one party system and we want a second,

people's party. To do that we have to look to 2016 and think to ourselves; can we eliminate false idols like Bachman by putting Gary Johnson on Ron Paul's shoulders and comitting our organization now?

i'd say yes, I think RP would agree. Ron Paul will likely go down in history as the grand hero of all of us, but now that he has brought thousands to their feet, it is important to find out right now who is next up on the totem pole of liberty

A true flower can not blossom without sunlight and a true man can not live without love.

Gary Johnson Votes

A lot of people I know, myself included, who voted Ron Paul in the Republican primary in Wisconsin or caucused Ron Paul in Minnesota will be voting Gary Johnson this November.

Voting Johnson makes more sense than writing in Ron Paul since those votes will be grouped into "other - write-ins" and wont have much significance going forward.

A big turnout for Johnson makes a much better statement and could attract a lot of attention.

Bill, first things first

My opinion. We can't think of who's going to be running in 2016, matching funds or anything else. The way things are now we,(libertarians, fiscal conservatives, constitutionalists, etc.) have no say. Let's take a first step and see whether we can get traction in the GOP or a Liberty Party. As we know, at the present time we have a one party system.

We are in another war for our Independence.

Where would that put us in 2016?

If Ron decided to run again, he would not take matching funds. So, it would do him no good as Libertarian Candidate.

Worse yet, if Ron continued to run as a Republican or any other Liberty candidate ran as a Republican (Rand, +), the Libertarian Party would have 35$ million dollars to use to fight for the same core voter.

It might sound like a good idea, but I'm not so sure.

Steeking Money

who need it ?
we will give money to Ron Paul
that way we don't owed any favored to any one
that money is TAX payers.


Ron Paul wouldn't take the

Ron Paul wouldn't take the matching funds? Of course he would.

If you're using his refusal to accept the congressional pension as your premises, then you're comparing apples to oranges.

Of course he would not

Paul has used the money raised by volunteers to hire staff and buy television airtime. Although he could obtain millions more in matching funds from the Federal Election Commission, Benton said, "Ron rejects matching funds on principle. Ron is not the kind of guy who compromises."


Screw Jesse Benton, I don't

Screw Jesse Benton, I don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth. Not to mention he's been working AGAINST our movement, so of course he wouldn't want matching funds.

I'd like to hear it from Ron directly, IMO if given the opportunity think he would take the matching funds. Given the situation it would be the pragmatic and acceptable thing to do.

Then how come he never has?

He rejected them in 1988, 2007 and 2012. It is immoral to use stolen funds to promote your ideology. I'll be voting GJ regardless.

It's amazing how little people really pay attention to the

person they are voting for huh.

BTW, have you seen GJ's New Mexico fiscal report card? Looks like the rumors of how well GJ did in NM were lies. He didn't cut the budget nor leave a surplus.. He raised spending.

The Libertarian party has been hoodwinked again or worse.. they've been co-opted at high levels and lower levels by beltway "Libertarians".

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

From an analysis by Walter Block on LewRockwell.com 2007

From an analysis by Walter Block on LewRockwell.com 2007

Would Ron be wise to accept government matching funds? No, despite the fact that he would be justified in doing so. This would be a gigantic pragmatic mistake. First of all, these monies come replete with all sorts of strings attached. My admittedly imperfect assessment of this situation is that the gains would not be worth these costs. Second, and more important, there are very few libertarians who agree with me on this analysis (that they would be legitimate to accept).

Well I'll update my "of

Well I'll update my "of course" to "most likely", seeing that this is Lew Rockwell speculating and not Ron Paul himself speaking.

I think if given the opportunity, Ron Paul would be pragmatic and take the matching funds. It's not like it's going into his pocket anyways (like the congressional pension fund), it will be used for his campaign and therefore the cause of liberty.

And to not accept would put him at a great disadvantage to his opponent.

Exactly Phenn

Please, please, please.....look at the bigger picture. A vote for Gary Johnson will be counted. He is on the ballot. More than time we let the RINOS know we are tired of being used. Its over.

We are in another war for our Independence.

Gary Johnson? NOT A CHANCE.

This is what gets me about many of the candidates, they simply do not read the Constitution and the documents to understand what they should be doing. Gary Johnson is no different.

The killer:

Gary Johnson wants the "FairTax":


"Unenumerated" Federal "Flat percentage taxation" which will "guarantee increase" (just like the income tax) to the federal government with an increase to the private sector with no oversight or consent before it is collected!!!

This also allows (like the Fairtax) the federal government into your state, county and HOME to determine "what is and what is not" "a business"... A BUY SELL OR TRADE TAX. It does not get rid of the IRS, it changes the name of the collection bureaucracy and EMPOWERS IT FURTHER.

Read the ORIGINAL CONSTITUTION (and the documents in my signature) ENUMERATED TAXATION established BEFORE being collected is ESSENTIAL for Freedom.

"Unenumerated taxation" is an "ARROGATED POWER" which is expressly PROHIBITED by the definitions set down by the founders (See the Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788 - Found on our APP website).

Ron Paul knows that there is no need for any such tax; All that is needed is a import tax for the federal government if they stayed within the delegated powers.

A simple "import tax" does not invade your business, it simply taxes items as they enter, your "papers and effects" remain private as intended in the Constitution. That is why they wrote it that way!

Gary Johnston is Empowering the federal government with supporting such a tax. Don't be fooled. I called RAND Paul on the same thing in one of his announcements; It shows that Gary Johnston and RAND Paul are both ignorant (or willingly and dangerously passive) of the true foundations.

This is such a crucial issue because the FLAT PERCENTAGE Unenumerated "income tax" is what is financing and fueling our wasteful government now;

Why simply "change the name" of the IRS and the income tax (which Gary Johnson intends to do) and make our federal taxes even MORE invasive?!!!

RichardTaylorAPP - Chair - American Patriot Party.CC

John Locke #201, 202, 212 to 232; Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions 1798; Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788; Rights of the Colonists 1772.

Sorry but you are way off

"It does not get rid of the IRS"
On the very first line of the section you quoted, Gary Johnson clearly states "Abolish the Internal Revenue Service"

"Ron Paul knows that there is no need for any such tax"
The sales tax? Ron Paul wasn't even going to touch the sales tax. And they both want the income tax to be ZERO PERCENT.

"Gary Johnston is Empowering the federal government with supporting such a tax. Don't be fooled"
... So if the government can currently tax us with:

Sales Tax
Income tax
Alternative minimum tax
Corporate income taxes
Capital gains taxes
Payroll taxes (including Social Security and Medicare taxes)
Gift taxes
Estate taxes

... but now can only tax us with:

Sales Tax

... I'm pretty sure that's the exact opposite of "empowering" them.

No you still don't get it. It EMPOWERS THEM GREATLY!

It is called "Obeying the Constitution" and the FairTax "DOES NOT!"

The Fair tax allows the Federal Government to join with your State Government and Laws to establish the tax.

It creates an inroad for the federal government to dictate state an local laws. It simplifies it for the "federal government".

The federal government will need a "regulatory bureaucracy" to regulate Who and How much will be paid in taxes.

So, what are you going to call it??? the SRI? RIS?

IF you don't hand over the money, "What ever you call it" "FEDERAL AGENCY" WILL BE AT YOUR DOOR AND YOU WILL GO TO PRISON!


IT SIMPLY COMBINES THE TAXES (into and up to as much as something like 23%!!! SHEESH!!!)

AND it does not guarantee that the other taxes will not surface again later!, It Invades your privacy, Invades your state and local taxes and laws.

That tax will also be transferred to burden the lowest income earners just as the income tax does now, because it simply will be deferred in the cost of products and paid by those who can least afford it.

Trade, Barter labor for Labor? A BUSINESS Transaction!!! Federal government at your door!

Sell an Item from your Internet Web Site? Business Transaction, Federal Government at Your Door!

The Federal Government will also use this against internet sales.

Don't be fooled.

RichardTaylorAPP - Chair - American Patriot Party.CC

John Locke #201, 202, 212 to 232; Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions 1798; Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788; Rights of the Colonists 1772.

Why would they need a

Why would they need a "regulatory bureaucracy"? There's no need to regulate who pays, and who pays how much, as it will be a flat tax across the board.

And what do you mean "if you don't hand over the money"... it's a sales tax right? That means it's included when you pay for your item/service at the point-of-sale, like everyone already does now.

The Business!

Everyone that has a business (as a person - including simple labor or registered by the state),

Which is just about anyone who engages in business!

You are looking at it from only one side, the purchaser.

The business will be regulated, kept track of, and that business will have to have RECORDS that the federal government will have the POWER to look at and review;

You mess up with your income tax, who's there? the IRS

You mess up with your business records of sales in a Fairtax, who's there? The Federal "what ever you call it" Fair tax regulatory agency (to make it so called "Fair").

You sell a chicken to your neighbor, that is a business transaction!

You trade a chicken for a shovel, that is bartering; That is a business transaction. Not recording that becomes a FEDERAL OFFENSE under a FEDERAL LAW.

A Constitutional import tax gets rid of ALL the taxes that the fairtax PLUS the sales tax!...

Why not simply obey the Constitution and Keep the federal government at the "Ports of Call", and away from business and free trade ALTOGETHER?!!!

RichardTaylorAPP - Chair - American Patriot Party.CC

John Locke #201, 202, 212 to 232; Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions 1798; Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788; Rights of the Colonists 1772.