I hate how the media attempts to persuade people who are angry about the economy into thinking more socialism/fascism will solve the problem.
The govt taking money from people and giving it to banks is not capitalism, and is not trickle down economics. The govt has no right to take our money and give it to failed businesses that happen to have armies of lobbyist. The poorly run banks should fail and well run banks will take their place on top. That is competition, the best wins. The best = wealth.
Nationalizing the banks gives the government even more control over our daily activities, and it completely eliminates competition, so all banks are the same.
It is disgusting that some on here actually fall for this garbage.
This is why I read comments at the Daily Paul. Nicely put.
Takk fyrir að uppfæra á Íslandi!
When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe.
~ John Muir
Let me be VERY CLEAR :
nationalized banks, just another flavor of centralized banking ARE NEVER, EVER, A GOOD IDEA.
This is just yet another TERRIBLY NEGATIVE FORM of the very same idea which led the U.S. to the Federal Reserve system.
This is nothing else than A CHANGE OF NOMENCLATURE, or JARGON. But this in fact provides for the same excuses and rationale of the same MORAL HAZARD(*), eventually.
and as such, coming SOON OR LATE, it is DOOMED to have the exact same type of consequences.
(*) To whomever is NAIVE ENOUGH to still think otherwise with some "okay, but..." I STRONGLY RECOMMEND to re-read, AND TO DO SO CAREFULLY THIS TIME :
pages 123 to 140, Chapter 9, "The Current Mess" in Ron Paul's End The Fed.
I certainly hope for the Icelandic people that many enough of them have read it, too.
"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.
"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius
Members of this website are now talking of "the collective" and forcing the families of jailed bankers into lower middle class homes. The fix still seems to be one of big government to many here. What a crock. Good thing I rarely read the comments on this website. Even many within the "Liberty Movement" are socialists. Free Markets. That's the only answer. The way to achieve it: Simply think about it for yourself. (History shows no record of a free, yet governed people.)
It doesn't require conspiracy theories to prove the fact that there are individuals and groups alike that wish to control you.
"The fix still seems to be one of big government to many here. What a crock. Good thing I rarely read the comments on this website. Even many within the "Liberty Movement" are socialists. Free Markets. That's the only answer. The way to achieve it: Simply think about it for yourself."
+1 B I N G O
"My manner of living is plain. I do not mean to be put out of it. A glass of wine and a bit of mutton are always ready; and such as will be content to partake of them are always welcome. Those, who expect more, will be disappointed, but no change will be effected by it."
-- George Washington
america did pretty well for the first 130 years (for the white, males that is)
Time to attack Iceland! Can't have them standing up to the bankster-gangsters!
If my need to be RIGHT is greater than my desire for TRUTH, then I will not recognize it when it arrives ~ Libertybelle
Putting the easily corrupt and economically illiterate government in charge of the banks is NOT the solution long term!
To nationalize the banks means to put a muzzle on all of the owners in the bank - this means many of us. Nationalization is very likely a criminal act similar to confiscation and theft. Forgiving the debt is also scratching the surface of the problem. No, Iceland did not resolve the problem, it remedied the ache temporarily. Unless the private banks (NOT government owned/nationalized) deal with honest money (not currency), the problem is going to remain.
Let's not lose focus from the enabler of this whole charade - the FEDeral Reserve System, the central bank that controls the amount of currency in the markets. If there is no FED that controls the amount of currency (not money) and interest rates, then there will be genuine competition amongst the banks and no safety net for Banksters to experiment with fraud.
Kind of nice try by Cenk, but still missing the mark. I am afraid that he isn't even shooting in the right direction!
The thing is, the free market would work if investors and depositors actually punished banks for fradulent behaviour. They don't. The consumers are too stupid; they keep on falling for the same old tricks...banks push policies that make tremendous money in the short term; they use this to edge out banks that promise more sound policies that have much more realistic ROR. Then the first bank fails, people get pissed, another bank arises with the same stupid promises as the first, and people fall for it, hook, line, and sinker. Not to mention that the individuals who properly did business with the second bank (the one pushing sound policy) are adversly affected by the fact that the majority of their friends and neighbors lost so much of their wealth, thereby crippling the economy.
Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:
Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a
its better for the people to own the banks, than banks own the people.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Maybe, as long as "the people" isn't a codeword for "the government". Which it always seems to. That or some kind of union.
End The Fed!
...except that going after the bankers criminally was only half of what helped Iceland. The other half was refusing to bailout any of the banks and that was where the real fight was. The Parliament desperately wanted to impose the bailout but the new Prime Minister sent the vote to the people via referendum where it failed to pass several times. Krugman, who Cenk mentioned approvingly in this piece, advocated for the bailout and was distressed that they didn't go for it. Homeowner debt forgiveness and bank nationalization did little or nothing to help Iceland.
It was the people, via referendum, that refused to create zombie banks that would have cannibalized their economy as has occurred in the US and Europe. If left to the politicians they'd be in a very bad situation.
Cuimhnigh orm, a Dhia, le haghaidh maith.
...is to arrest and incarcerate anybody who had anything to do with the derivative and CDO swap scams, anyone who was responsible in the banks for perpetrating that crime, and all politicians who went along with it and acted as accomplices, and that also includes the Federal Reserve Chairman. Investigations would begin for who was behind the fraud, where those tentacles went from behind the curtain of the Federal Reserve!
Any politician who voted for the Banking Bailouts would be fired and all pensions nixed, and nobody who was fired or who worked with this banking mess would become a lobbyist! In fact, we'd all end the "lobbying". And, some of the politicians who were the ringleaders for the Bailouts would be jailed, until we figured out what to do with them. Their assets would also be frozen. Goldman Sachs would be closed and all their assets frozen IMMEDIATELY, along with JP Morgan, Bank of America, etc. All executives would be in jail until this mess is figured out. Charges would be brought against them for massive fraud.
After criminals are convicted and imprisoned, all their personal assets (including homes) and monies, offshore and onshore, would be confiscated and sent to the US Treasury in a separate account, until the financial mess was figured out. Some of the monies would have to end up going to some of the other countries involved, to be fair. But, no relatives would be able to move the money around, nor would they be able to inherit a dime! They would leave with the clothes on their backs, and that's about it. Mothers with small children would be allowed to keep enough money to buy a lower middle class home. That's the extent of MY charity!
A complete revamping of our government would eliminate 95% of all Senators and Congressmen. OH, what a dream this is! But, if we had justice in this world, these are some of the things that would happen. Finally, all the debts of the world's countries would be forgiven, and we'd all collectively try to figure out how to go from here.
The only real answer is to arrest, incarcerate, and convict the criminals (with no parole), confiscate all their assets, and forgive the debts world-wide. If you want to hurt the elitists who contrived this whole debacle, that is how you hurt them, indeed~~ IN THEIR POCKETS!
Very well put!!!
"Austerity hasn't worked in the United States"?!?! (about 4:40-4:55)
What planet has he been on? What austerity? Spending has gone through the roof since the collapse and it was already going through the roof before that.
And as for the European austerity, you ought to check out these graphs:
AUSTERITY NEVER HAPPENED!
Blaming the failed recovery on austerity is the same as blaming the crash on the free-market.
Lastly, he tells us the options are bailing out the banks (US and Euro) or bailing out the homeowners (Iceland). Isn't there a third option of bailing out neither?
Yeah, After a few too many attempts to 'co-opt' people to his 'non-partisan, yet somehow bi-partisan' view of disagreeing with the GOP and Democrats, yet agreeing with everything they do...I've come to say, Fuck Cenk Ugyr.
We don't approve of scape-goating in the U.S. We don't approve of taking someone else's property unless they have committed a criminal act and need to make restitution.
He seems to be calling for an edict without due process. "Ex post facto" -- laws passed to punish previously legal behavior, are unconstitutional. I'm much more in favor of the recent filing of criminal charges in New York.
Unfortunately, the voters have allowed their representatives to put into place regulatory agencies and laws that permit these banks to do what they're doing. It is unfair to attack bankers who have no choice in the matter, for the mis-deeds of some of their peers and our legislatures.
Mandated redistribution of wealth is not our friend.
What do you think? http://consequeries.com/
You said "Unfortunately, the voters have allowed their representatives to put into place regulatory agencies and laws that permit these banks to do what they're doing. It is unfair to attack bankers who have no choice in the matter, for the mis-deeds of some of their peers and our legislatures."
So, if these bankers were "just following orders", then their illegal, immoral, and unethical behavior gets a pass? I'm not sure that's what you meant, but that's what I read...
Voters don't allow representatives to do anything; the Constitution defines the acceptable behavior of the representatives.
I agree with your final paragraph. I like what another posted, that fractional reserve lending is fraud and should be prosecuted.
I love you. I'm sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you.
http://fija.org - Fully Informed Jury Association
http://jsjinc.net - Jin Shin Jyutsu (energy healing)
There is no such place. It's spelled Nürnberg.
The beginning of the article explains the original name. Thank you for pointing it out, I was not aware of it. I will likely continue to type it the same way that I have, though.
but Im not so sure I would Nationalize bankshere in the US of A...why on earth would we want our criminal government taking over?
It should be a clue that it is a wrong thing to do simply because Krugman says it is the right thing to do.
I say completely sever ALL ties to our government and get rid of FDIC and guarantees of any sort. Fractional-Reserve banking should be considered fraud and counterfeiting, and prosecutuion should be forthcoming for those actions. Let them sink or swim on their own. And of course, going after some of these criminals for fraud and what-not would be nice to see. Even if I dont think our bought and paid for Criminal "Justice" System would find them guilty of anything.But definitely DO NOT hand the banks over to the US Government.
I'd rather have a bottle in front o' me than a frontal lobotomy
I agree with this statist.
5,500 million Iceland Kronas surplus of external trade in goods in September 2012 according to preliminary figures.
Nigel Farage, UK Independence Party - great comments from the oral assassin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muw0DGI_DIs
"One resists the invasion of armies; one does not resist the invasion of ideas" Victor Hugo