5 votes

Question for Paul supporters who are not voting this year:

Why not? I understand not voting for Rombamney, but why not just cast a protest vote (write in or vote third party). It may or may not be counted, but if it is, at least you can contribute to the faction of "other." If we get the "other" number big enough, maybe eventually people will stop believing the lie that we only have two options.

This post was inspired by a comment I saw on another thread where someone stated they are not voting this year.

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If We Have NO Advocates,.Then WE Have To Be Our Own...

I finally watched the 90 min debate. Not only do I want those 90 mins back, I want any hope and possibility of this becoming a world worth living in, to come back as well. We are already in a depression, and they are determined to turn it into a “Mad Max” HELLHOLE! Re instituting feudalism, and welfare for the elite and political cronies at the expense of anyone else is NOT sustainable and will destroy this country from within far faster than ANY perceived or actual external threat from another land…

They want to have a monopoly on wealth creation through the Fed Reserve, and wealth distribution through oppressive regulation that they exempt their cronies from, and use to crack down on those who aren’t in their club. We fought a revolution over a tax on tea! We are silent while opportunity and the blessings of liberty for this country we inherited are being eviscerated.

Where are those willing to speak out, to dissent, to ACT! As we condemn others to this fate, so shall we condemn even ourselves. We are being buried under our implied consent.

Do you really think politics, and having agents to speak on your behalf while assuming that they will act against their own best interests and in favor of yours, when they have a monopoly on resources, wealth and what information you get to see and hear, is really going to save any one of you, or us as a society?

If this debate did not bring that to mind, and come with the insight that if we really have NO advocates, then we need to BE our own advocates, and work outside of the rigged, corrupt self-serving system foisted upon us, to SAVE us, then you have nothing to worry about, as your masters will be happy to provide you exactly what they think you need, and not one thing they think you don’t. If that is the freedom you want for yourself or your children, good for you.

But as they do not speak for me, neither do you, and I will likewise follow my own self interests to save myself, from these people, just as you will follow your belief system to think that in spite of recent events, and past history, your rights will be preserved, as they are systematically being eliminated, on an item by item and daily basis. You may think that you are “free to submit to authority,” I believe that the only freedom is to be able to follow one’s conscience and act on it, absent any influence or intimidation from anyone who would proclaim themselves my master, when I did not anoint them, nor cede my authority over to them…

What Vote???

The party picks the delegates. By rigging the vote for or throwing out votes against the most corporate candidate. Who cares if they use the electoral college or routine fraud and abuse to accomplish the end result.

In politics the ends justify the means. The only actual injustice that is disputed is that those with the most means, have the greatest ability to justify and employ those ends, to install their agenda, and forestall anyone or anything that wishes to delay it.

Politics is a zero sum game, where winner takes all. Of course there is going to be corruption with a system like that. That is what it was designed for. As a mechanism to defeat the have-nots, through implied consent, and tricking the masses to believe that, that fraud implies that their will is not popular, and is therefore rationally and ethically irrelevant.

The Virtue Of A False Choice

With this election cycle offering Obama vs. Romney, the American people are left with a false choice. Each candidate agrees or has a measure of similarity on the issues to the point of running to fallacy, hyperbole or rhetoric, to obfuscate the glaring similarities on major issues like foreign policy, health care or monetary policy. Only only real difference between the two candidates is how to use government to enforce actions against the people’s will, or how to enable corporations instead of the government to engage in actions in direct opposition to the people’s will. This cancels out each choice, substituting reason based in principle, for logical fallacies based on emotion, in absence of reason.

This is not only evident for the two major parties, it also applies to those who oppose voting for another candidate like Gary Johnson, or any other candidate. In falling for a false choice, where we are given options from the same individuals who presented us with the same kind of people with the same kind of thinking, we are desperate to leave behind in hopes for a better future for our children and reality for ourselves; Let us be aware in the role we play consciously or unconsciously, in preserving an order in direct opposition to our best interests. Let us have the courage to oppose anyone who does not hear or listen to our voice. And not let the results of one election, silence our voice, if not in public, than to ourselves.

We do only have two options, by Law.

-Federal Election Commission is a two party duopoly with monopoly control of the election process that was established by Congress and the Act signed by the President.

Here is Dr. Paul in 1989 about his visit with the NEC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GewLKQU7XSs&feature=player_de...

Have the FEC rules changed? How will the votes be reported on election night?

-GJ was a lifelong Republican until December 2011. Many of the GOP will see a vote for GJ as a vote for their Party.

-How does one use a corrupted election process to send a message or vote for change.

When the people cannot verify the outcomes of their elections, then we don't know whose representatives they are.

-If the election process is corrupt, then voting implies that the system is sound.

-How will the MSM executives explain to their sponsors that they couldn't scare up a bigger Presidential vote.

What if the MSM contract is based on voter turnout? Ads are everywhere telling us how important it is for us to vote. Why is that? Who benefits?

-Look back through history at the percentage voting in the Presidential elections. Do you see any messages being sent by losing Third Party Candidates?

So there were many who voted third Party. What did the Party stand for, who did they represent.

-If we want to sent a message don't vote for President. What was lowest turnout in history? One for the record books in 2012?

With 100% reported and 10% voting we call this race for .....

The Great UnVote of 2012

Free includes debt-free!

asks paul supporters who

asks paul supporters who aren't voting this year why not
you tell them they can write in or vote third party as a protest vote

Do you want to know why you failed so hard with this thread?
It is because you did not encourage them to vote for any liberty candidates running in their local and state levels where it actually matters.

You mean something like this:

Don't vote it just encourages the bastards!

Read up on many opinions here
http://goo.gl/SDxZe

most of the people below are saying consent of the governed must be withdrawn.

I Rocked the Ron Paul thing pretty hard in 2008 and I maxed out my donations to him last year. But I learned after 08 the system is rigged in many ways...if you think you can change by electing someone you are delusional.

Anyways I didn't listen to a ton of Ron's speeches this year because they are pretty much the same as the last time around. But the last time around Ron would occasionally say "heck we even get some anarchists at our rallies" Well I went to a few Ron Paul rallies and met some anarchists. Its about opening your mind to the possibility that this political system just may not be the best way for humans to coexist. We shouldn't be fighting over this stupid shit all the time. We should be voluntarily cooperating with each other and not dependent on a central government for any help.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kD-zi_ip1Ck/T1WL2wyxYJI/AAAAAAAAAW...

The government schools long ago gave up teaching anything significant about the founding fathers, the Constitution, and the philosophy of limited government — other than to trash and demean them. In a democracy it is not in the state's best interest to educate its own citizens about the virtues of limited government, and ours doesn't. And it certainly will never make any attempt to do so with the hordes of new immigrants it hopes to attract (and register to vote). Belief in the Constitution is essentially a lost cause.

That's why it is unpatriotic to vote. Being patriotic in America means being devoted to the Constitution, if not the natural rights philosophy that motivated much of it. Since neither of the major political parties has any interest whatsoever in enforcing the constitutional limitations on the state, they are all traitors to the Constitution (with one lone exception, Congressman Ron Paul).

Anyone who supports them is also behaving in a traitorous manner. That is, anyone who votes for any of them. Voting only allows these traitors to the Constitution to proclaim that "the people have spoken" and "I am your president," or congressman, senator, governor, or whatever. Their legitimacy rests solely on their ability to make this claim.

Tom DiLorenzo

Voting Legitimizes the State

These are some of the reasons not to vote and not to consent to tyranny.
Because to vote is to give the state legitimacy.
They are why I no longer support the state or any of the sociopaths who make up the minions of the state by voting.

Voting:

A man is none the less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years. - Spooner, Lysander

It is always easier to fight for one‘s principles than to live up to them. - Adler, Alfred

If men use liberty in such a way as to surrender their liberty, are they thereafter any the less slaves? If people by a plebiscite elect a man despot over them, do they remain free because the despotism was of their own making? - Spencer, Herbert

Consent and the withdrawal thereof:

Freedom is manifested by two words - I Won't . Eric Frank Russell

Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed. -Jefferson, Thomas

Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one; for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries BY A GOVERNMENT, which we might expect in a country WITHOUT GOVERNMENT, our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer. - Paine, Thomas

The only idea they have ever manifested as to what is a government of consent, is this—that it is one to which everybody must consent, or be shot. - Spooner, Lysander

All authority is derived from the people at large, held only during their pleasure, and exercised only for their benefit. - Tucker, Thomas T.

Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer;
then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight
and break in pieces. De La Boétie, Étienne

Voting is consent.

I am not voting for...

...anyone who is a fake.

Because voting legitimizes

Because voting legitimizes the system.

I rarely vote but I may vote this election, if the weather is nice and I can walk to the polling place. I'll vote GJ, if I do.

I must be willing to give up what I am in order to become what I will be. Albert Einstein

I don't really understand the

I don't really understand the logic in this. At what percentage of our non-participation will the PTB finally give up and realize they are not legit?

It isn't about them giving up and realizing anything.

They already know they aren't legit.

People do not give up power.

At some point however, the PEOPLE will realize that those in power aren't legit, and they will DEPOSE them from power.

It's happened once already 236 years ago.

Also, as experience has shown 152 years ago, trying to go your own way doesn't work either.

There is only one way to travel the path of liberty. Unfortunately, this is dictated by those who despise liberty. They leave no other viable option.

Are you equating the idea of

Are you equating the idea of not voting to the American Revolution or secession? Sorry, I don't see the parallel.

Not at all. I'm not equating it to anything.

The question was "at what point" and the presumption was that not voting was to wake up the PTB.

On the contrary, not voting is to EXPOSE the PTB. There is no hope getting them to change voluntarily.

As it is, they are only elected with about 20% of the people voting for them. (80% registered and about 50% turnout)

If they were elected with only 5%, 2%, or 1% of the voting age population supporting them, their elections would be a pure farce.

If turnout fell to the single digits, it would be undeniable and unavoidable, that the People did not select anyone, and that reforms would have to be made.

The only way to increase turnout over present levels, or prevent a drop in turnout would be to implement a none-of-the-above option with proper laws for dealing with it.

And that would expose the PTB even further.

"They leave no other viable option."

Sadly true.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.