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Think twice before you put up a Christmas tree this year...

<< Jeremiah 10 >>
King James Version
1Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
2Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

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Here's an evil winter solstice song

cover your ears boys and girls or else you might fall astray and end up on the dark side. Or, maybe, even if you don't agree with this artist's spiritual views you can admit she can make beautiful music and there's nothing wrong with people celebrating the holiday season as they see fit.


Why do you consider it strange...

...that people would want to use evergreens as decorations during winter time? Year-round, people use beautiful imagery from nature to celebrate the seasons, and during the cold, dreary winter, the evergreen stands out as something beautiful in nature that warms the heart.

I think you are confusing nature-worship with nature-imagery inspiring worship of the Creator. Of course, pagans would use evergreens at winter time in their nature-worshipping ceremonies. But why does that then ruin the use of beautiful evergreens during winter for everyone else who doesn't use it for such purposes? That's ridiculous to project the pagan ritual onto what we do ourselves with our evergreens.

The Bible is full of imagery from nature being used as inspiration for worshipping the Creator, so I see nothing inherently wrong with using evergreens in this fashion.

And it's plain as day when you read verses 5 and following in this chapter you cite that this is talking about trees being carved into statues that don't speak and have to be carried around. Yes, a Christmas tree can be made an idol, but it doesn't have to be.

Hmmm...perhaps you should be considering these verses in another way. Isn't it wrong to go into the 'forest' of Scripture, chop down a 'tree' of four verses, drag it unnaturally out of context, decorate it with your interpretation of choice once it's been separated from its natural state, and fix it in place so it won't move by closing your mind off to any argument to the contrary? Sorry, I won't bow down to the idol of your twisted interpretation that you have set up as gospel truth.

?? Why?

I'm Christian and I can't see why you are posting this here?? This is a liberty site. Dr. Paul is a Chirstian and he certainly wouldn't tell you what to do about a Christmas tree. Why bring the matter here??

Who cares!

Yes, this is a liberty site, is this post hurting you? Probably not, so who cares? He has the liberty to post you have the liberty to complain, is this really a big deal, on the grand scheme of things?? Seriously!

I think there are more pressing issues to be concerned with.

"Fairy tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten."
— G.K. Chesterton

The irony of a religious

The irony of a religious argument happening on a Liberty forum astounds and saddens me.

Rand Paul and the evil tree

Ron Paul approves this message


It makes more sense to ignore religious zealots

that try to force organized (aka centralized) religion down the throats of free thinking people that don't believe in some fictitious all powerful, vengeful deity that supposedly will hold decorating a tree in my house during winter solstice against me in your fantasy land known as heaven and hell.

Freedom means I can put a tree in my house and decorate it as I please and it doesn't mean I'm worshiping that tree. If you have a problem with that notion you're in the wrong movement and should go start your anti-winter solstice tree cult.

Go ahead and serve whatever god you want to invest faith in but don't try and preach to me. You're like a salesmen that knocks on my door even though I have a no solicitation sign posted.

Lovely message, but the

Lovely message, but the original post isn't addressed to YOU, so it isn't being 'preached' to you. You're only advocating no one can have a discussion that might bother your sensitive ears.

Why don't you try taking your own advice, and if you don't like a discussion, leave it to those who do. Your post has threats, insults, and force in virtually every line in it.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

Your message was addressed to the DailyPaul community

which I am a longtime member. If you don't want people to respond to your nonsense then keep it to yourself and don't propagate it in a forum where you're expecting people to respond.

Punch sand all you want, here's a Ron Paul family Christmas message to you. Notice the evil tree the young Paul family member decorates.


No, my message was addressed

No, my message was addressed to you, and most here don't use threats, insults, and force in virtually every line of our messages. I didn't post the original post. I didn't post the 30+ thoughtful posts from different users pro and con.

Your message, hardly all examples either:
religious zealots (insult)
that try to force organized (aka centralized) (advocating force)
down the throats (force)
fictitious all powerful, vengeful deity (insult)
in your fantasy land (insult)
If you have a problem with (my) notion
you're in the wrong movement (threat)

Note to claim falsely that someone is a thief or murderer is to claim the right to use force, so it's more than a lie. False accusations or slanders in this context is you advocating force.

You need to follow your own advice, and not be a free speech facist. If you don't like a discussion, you don't have to drown out free discussion.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

You do realize that you used the word you

in your original post, right? Maybe your god made you type that original post and used your fingers as you lost control of your body and your mind that serves nobody but your god while you were nothing but a servant of your god that you think is all powerful and you bow to any chance you get in your daily life. You are the one that brought your message to the DP and, apparently, you don't like it when you get challenged on your convictions that serve your ego in order soothe your mind while you live in tumultuous times that you can't control no matter how many time you pray to your chosen god.

I never threatened you

Did you just violate your 9th commandment and bear false witness upon me?

Go ahead and talk as much as you want about evil trees

just don't expect people to let you get away with this nonsense without commenting on it. Crazy talk like that reflects on you and you have to be prepared to deal with it.

Please, by all means, continue telling the DP community how evil trees can be. I need laughter in my life so I'm going to encourage you to keep on expressing your first amendment rights for my selfish entertainment.

It's threads like this that make people that are curious about the RP movement shy away from it.

If you think I've drowned out the discussion by deriding your beliefs then maybe your faith isn't as strong as you think it is. Why would you care what other people think anyway if you've got such strong convictions about trees?

Btw, I'm pretty sure Dr. Paul is totally cool with people using gold to adorn their tree in any way they see fit as long as it doesn't harm another party or violate their property rights.

You might as well tell people it's evil to dress your dog in a sweater because that makes as much sense as telling people it's evil to decorate a tree during the winter.

Btw, lol @ you for hitting the minus one button on a Ron Paul christmas message that has trees in it.

Again, you're more then welcome to express your free speech as you see fit but you better expect other people to comment on it in an open forum.


funny :)

But I'm not talking about

But I'm not talking about Christmas trees.

If you had bothered to read the thread before telling everyone that they couldn't discuss anything like that because it might bother your sensitive ears, you would have seen I've neither taken a pro nor con position.

I don't believe discussing anything between people who want to discuss it is bad. Apparently, a mutual discovery of truth is bad from your viewpoint.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

I read your the text of your thread

You copied something out of a book. There's really not much to it and it's not difficult to understand. You're mistaking decorating a tree for self aggrandized materialism. Your ego feels a need to speak out on this issue in order to feel better about yourself in relation to your chosen centralized religious beliefs that dictate so-called false idols are evil and will bring morality toward destruction. I choose to not criticize anybody for tree decoration no matter what season we're in and I don't think that festive action represents evil or materialism that denies your chosen god a place in your life.

So, you're not talking about christmas trees

even though they're in the subject heading of your post.

878 AD roughly...

I heard once that in the reign of King Alfred that Christmas was celebrated but do not know if a tree was utilized.

I think the tree was a German custom in the modern era.

The real tree does add a joyous feeling and stimulates the senses.

Perhaps just the branches and limbs could be used and thus sparing the tree?

The fake tree is expensive and useless imo.

Decorations and trees do definitely help reduce the monotony of December and help get people excited about spreading the good cheer, so I guess its not all that bad.

I get what you are saying but I am sure the tree is on the bottom end of the scale in the bushels of sins out there.


Some people like Vanilla, some people like Chocolate.

Some people like decorating a tree around Christmas, and some Don't

This is our old friend subjective value at work.

There is no objective case for the utility or disutility of a Christmas tree, so why bother arguing over it.

No amount of arguing will convince a Pepsi drinker that Coca Cola tastes better, or vice versa.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com

"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

Oh please.

I guess we'd better stop wearing mixed fabrics and start sacrificing animals, because your god said so in his book of poorly-written fairy tales.

I don't play, I commission the league.

So uhm exactly why are you

So uhm exactly why are you putting up a Christmas tree?

As near as the consensus of the thread can tell, there is no reason. It's just tradition symbolizing nothing. It's up to you to have a reason if you are rational, not us. Santa Claus told me to do it so I can get presents if I worship under the tree is not a reason.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

wolfe's picture

It's as good a reason...

As the offspring of the invisible man in the sky was born to ultimately be sacrificed both literally and figuratively so that I could be forgiven for visiting brothels.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -

Which of course is why Isaac

Which of course is why Isaac Newton, among many of our other great thinkers, wrote on bible prophecy as well as the foundational work of physics.

No, no one writes about santa claus.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.



DONE Tree goes up... I'm not superstitious when it comes to trees

It's not a matter of

It's not a matter of superstition, but what you are celebrating. Having symbols that at best mean nothing is kindof odd, you'd have to agree. "Let's cut down a tree and decorate it - for no reason!".

I personally don't like Christmas as a holiday as much as others. Too glitzy and greedy.

Thanksgiving is my holiday, it's free of tinsel, and is simply a time to give thanks to God with family and friends. It's simple and pure.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

Let's tack two trees together at perpendicular angles

and worship them by giving thanks to some so-called god you believe in and if other people don't do that then they've committed a sacrilegious act that will send them to eternal pain and suffering.

if it isn't a matter of superstition...

then there's nothing wrong with it... odd is in the eye of the beholder... I have a reason...

I like it because it represents memories, warmth and joy... that's good enough for me... Some people like the lights which also happen to coincide with Hannukah... Martin Luther is credited with coming up with the tradition of lights on a tree as he got the idea when travelling through a forest at night... no doubt some traditions come from winter solstace celebrations... I don't care, they mean nothing to me...

I once had an Israeli tell me "Thanksgiving, that's the day you guys celebrate stealing the land from the Indians isn't it?"... To you & me, its time to be with family and friends and watch football... To each his own, isn't that what Liberty is about?

If you want to believe that Christmas is a pagan ritual and you want to celebrate Sukkot instead, go right ahead... If you want to make a speech to state your claim, feel free... but if somebody wants to go around spreading guilt and shame and condemning others, or worse, passing laws against trees... Jesus ain't in that picture...

There could be something

There could be something wrong with it if it leads someone else astray or doesn't represent yourself the way you should as a Christian - even if there is nothing 'magical' or superstitious about it.

I've been on both sides of this issue in the past, and can see both things. Children don't see it as that. On the other hand, it is a greedy holiday - children could see that if it were mentioned. It's a different spirit from thanksgiving as usually celebrated (leaving apart church and caroling, etc - and just the secular part of it).

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

That's right... Bad tree!

That's right... Bad tree! Bad, bad tree!