-18 votes

Think twice before you put up a Christmas tree this year...

<< Jeremiah 10 >>
King James Version
1Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
2Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.




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You legalistically and

pharisaically condemn people to hell who choose to include decorating a Christmas tree in their celebration of the Saviors birth. You claim you need no interpretation of Scripture because it is "plain" although others here have disagreed with your interpretation of Scripture (and are you not a man with traditions and baggage just like those others whose "traditions" and interpretations you dismiss?). YOU need no interpretation, yet you insist YOUR interpretation of Scripture is the correct one for everyone else. This is exactly why I gave up on Protestantism and became Catholic. The Magisterium and Tradition, along with Scripture and the guidance of the Holy Spirit on the Church founded by Christ on the rock of Peter (apostolic succession) are needed for faithful and Godly understanding of Scripture. The "every man is a preacher deciding what Scripture means" leads to flawed and sinful humans finding preachers that suit them and interpreting Scripture according to their own biases, rather than following the teaching of Christ.
As I said, I know no one who worships their Christmas tree. You say you do. Maybe you should talk to them. Only God knows what is in our hearts and He will decide who He wants with Him in the hereafter.

You said a mouth full

Admitting that you worship the pope is evidence enough of your Scriptural ignorance. If the pope is your father so be it. And the FACT is that Scripture is easy to understand for those who seek truth by the Holy Spirit and not just to satisfy there own desires.

No tree worship? Here is just one example or if you care to just google it yourself. http://livingheritage.org/pole-spirits.htm
Or look it up in an encyclopedia. How hard is it to understand that you are not suppose to worship GOD the same way others worship their false gods? How hard is it to understand when HE says it makes HIM jealous? It takes no interpretation.

I said nothing about hell. Now tell me from Scripture what hell is? You can't because hell is not Scriptural. Christmas is not Scriptural. Easter is not Scriptural. Sunday sabbath is not Scriptural. Friday entombment is not Scriptural. Mary worship is not Scriptural. I challenge you to show me where any of those are and I will convert to Catholicism right now.

It is a fact that Constantine compromised the Church and instituted all those pagan doctrines. You say you left Protestantism for Catholicism? Then I say you jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire. At least the protestants rejected the authority of the pope even if they didn't reject the false teachings.

Please do not lying to your hypocrisy

Nowhere did I say I worshipped the Pope. The fact that you apparently think that that is part of Catholicism reveals YOUR ignorance. You find Scripture "easy to understand". Most bibliolators do, and then they cannot resist preaching their interpretation to everyone else and insisting they are correct and the rest of us are going to hell. Your link about Druids etc. is not proof that if I put up a Christmas tree I am worshipping it. It is a DECORATION, Dude! Are you against DECORATIONS to celebrate the birth of Christ? Why? You are on a computer and it isn't Scriptural, either. Pagans the world over have gotten on their knees and prayed to various gods and goddesses. Does that mean I can't get on my knees and pray to the One True God? Why do you think I want you to become Catholic? You are a literalist bibliolator smearing the very Church that gave you the Bible you idolize. All I am saying is that YOUR insistence that Truth is what YOU interpret from Scripture is NO different than what you complain about "men with traditions" doing when they preach. I have ZERO interest in arguing theology with you. Your perspective is simply not one I share. I'll stick with Polycarp, Augustine, Aquinas, St Benedict, St Francis, etc., etc. and even-gasp-the POPE, over your interpretations. Imagine that.

Fair enough

You listen to Polycarp, Augustine, Aquina, Benedict(who wasn't a saint by Scriptural definition) and neither was Francis. I listen to Scripture. As far as the pope goes, he teaches against Scripture so if you worship according to his doctrine then you ARE worshiping him. You are only worshiping GOD if you worship HIM the way HE tells you. But like I said no one is forcing anyone. We all make our choices.

Again I ask you to tell me the Scriptural definition of hell? And again I venture to say that you can't because hell is a mistranslation of three or four different words. I do not believe in hell as it is taught by the pope or many of the protestant offshoots. I never said you or anyone else will go to hell. So let me make Scripture clear for you.

The true saints "Those who have the testimony of Yahshua and keep the Commandments of Yahweh" will be in the first resurrection. Over those the second death has no power. Those who reject Messiah OR the COMMANDMENTS have to wait for the second resurrection and the judgement and possibly the second death which is the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is the second death and not eternal life of torment.

I suggest you stop listening to other peoples "interpretations" of Scripture and study for yourself. Oh, wait, I forgot that the catholic church doesn't like for their subjects to study for themselves. I guess if they did then they would object to the statues of mary and "jesus" in direct violation of the second Commandment. Or how about call no man father except our Father in heaven. Doesn't the inscription on the popes hat say something like "in place of Christ"? How do you justify that? I could go on and on.

But like I said we all make our choices and we are all suppose to work our OUR OWN SALVATION with FEAR AND TREMBLING.

There is no point in arguing with you

because Sola Scriptura is heresy. That's your business. I am simply not interested in following that path.

I'm not here to argue

"You judge a tree by its fruits."

The question is are you bearing the fruit of truth in Yahs word or are you bearing the fruit of Papal fallacy? It's quite simple and if you are not testing yourself by Scripture then you are being led astray. Don't just listen to other people but "Test all things and hold fast to that which is good." If you study for yourself then you KNOW what you are doing but if you just listen to other then you don't know anything.

I'm not surprised in your "Sola Scriptura is heresy" belief, since the catholic church doesn't want you to know the truth. The very idea that the truth of Salvation is not contained within Scripture just goes to show how backward and obviously false your thinking is. And it further goes to show that you do indeed worship the Pope.

You don't know what fruit I bear

"You judge a tree by its fruits."

The question is are you bearing the fruit of truth in Yahs word or are you bearing the fruit of Papal fallacy? It's quite simple and if you are not testing yourself by Scripture then you are being led astray,<<<<

I test myself by a lot more than Scripture, which Satan is able to quote chapter and verse and use to rationalize a lot of evil. It was a Pope who predicted the great evil that would result from contraception which has been borne out as he predicted.

>>>>Don't just listen to other people but "Test all things and hold fast to that which is good." If you study for yourself then you KNOW what you are doing but if you just listen to other then you don't know anything. <<<<

Who said I didn't study Scripture? Scripture is a collection of books written in many different styles and must be read and interpreted according to the style. There is allegory, parables, poetry,etc. One of my favorite resources is Scott Hahns "Understanding Scripture". The Catholic Mass is almost entirely Scripture, much more so than ANY Protestant church I ever attended. The Catholic Mass reads all of Scripture over a 3 year period. No Protestant church does that. They cherry pick passages they like and ignore the rest.

>>>>I'm not surprised in your "Sola Scriptura is heresy" belief, since the catholic church doesn't want you to know the truth.<<<

You wouldn't even have a Bible to worship if it weren't for the Catholic Church preserving it. No priest or deacon has ever tried to prevent me from reading Scripture. I DO know I was fed a lot of lies about Catholics when I was Protestant. We do not worship Mary or statues, or the Pope. We venerate. And yes, there are many great saints, people whose lives were examples of awesome faith, people who I aspire to be like.

>>>>> The very idea that the truth of Salvation is not contained within Scripture just goes to show how backward and obviously false your thinking is.<<<<

I never posted that. Where are you getting this? Please stick to facts and reality.

>>> And it further goes to show that you do indeed worship the Pope.<<<

You are making no sense. Nothing I have posted shows any such thing and your simply pronouncing that does not make it so.

Huh?

"I test myself by a lot more than Scripture" Actually you seem to test yourself by the traditions of men. You judge a tree by its fruits.

"You wouldn't even have a Bible to worship if it weren't for the Catholic Church preserving it." Don't you mean perverting it? Apparently you don't know the origins of Scripture. And I don't worship Scripture, I worship according to Scripture. You judge a tree by its fruits.

"We do not worship Mary or statues, or the Pope. We venerate." You venerate statues in direct rebellion against God's Commands. I thought you said you study the bible. Perhaps you should read the second commandment again. You judge a tree by its fruits.

"And yes, there are many great saints, people whose lives were examples of awesome faith, people who I aspire to be like." No they are not saints just because someone says they are. There are specific qualifications for sainthood not the least of which is keeping the Commandments. You judge a tree by its fruits.

"I never posted that. Where are you getting this? Please stick to facts and reality." You said "sola scriptura is heresy". You judge a tree by its fruits.

"You are making no sense. Nothing I have posted shows any such thing and your simply pronouncing that does not make it so." You worship the non biblical teachings of the papacy therefore you worship the pope. You judge a tree by its fruits.

The catholic church is guilty of murder and lies throughout history but I guess next you will try to explain how the catholic church was doing God's will during the inquisitions. You judge a tree by its fruits!!!!!

>>>>"I test myself by a lot

>>>>"I test myself by a lot more than Scripture" Actually you seem to test yourself by the traditions of men. You judge a tree by its fruits.<<<<<

Yes. You judge a tree by its fruits. Men with traditions, USING those traditions, compiled and preserved the Bible you worship...assuming it IS Biblical Scripture you worship.

>>>>>"You wouldn't even have a Bible to worship if it weren't for the Catholic Church preserving it." Don't you mean perverting it? Apparently you don't know the origins of Scripture. And I don't worship Scripture, I worship according to Scripture. You judge a tree by its fruits.<<<<

No. You only accept that Gods Truth is present in Scripture. Have you never had personal revelation from God? I have. And it is not recorded in the Bible. But that does not make it less true.

>>>>>"We do not worship Mary or statues, or the Pope. We venerate." You venerate statues in direct rebellion against God's Commands. I thought you said you study the bible. Perhaps you should read the second commandment again. You judge a tree by its fruits.<<<<

Art and statues made to glorify God and other saints are not idols. Your denial of God given talents and gifts used to glorify Him is hubristic and puritanical. Besides, some folks need a physical reminder off the supernatural and spiritual.

>>>>>>"And yes, there are many great saints, people whose lives were examples of awesome faith, people who I aspire to be like." No they are not saints just because someone says they are. There are specific qualifications for sainthood not the least of which is keeping the Commandments. You judge a tree by its fruits.<<<<

I think we have established that you judge a tree by its fruits. Yes. There are specific requirements to be designated a saint. I have no argument there.

>>>>>"I never posted that. Where are you getting this? Please stick to." You said "sola scriptura is heresy". You judge a tree by its fruits. <<<<

Yes. I agree absolutely. You judge a tree by its fruits. And Sola Scriptura is heresy.

>>>>>You are making no sense. Nothing I have posted shows any such thing and your simply pronouncing that does not make it so." You worship the non biblical teachings of the papacy therefore you worship the pope. <<<<<<

I am deleting your non sequitur about trees and fruits. It is not germane here. I do not worship papal "teachings". I have posted the truth of Humanae Vitae. That is not the same thing as "worship". Do you not understand the difference?

>>>>>>>The catholic church is guilty of murder and lies throughout history but I guess next you will try to explain how the catholic church was doing God's will during the inquisitions. You judge a tree by its fruits!!!!!<<<<<

Approximately 1200 people were killed in the Inquisition. nHow many Christians, mostly Catholic, were killed by the Jewish led Bolsheviks? Approximately 66 million. How many priests, nuns and Catholics were exterminated and tortured by Communists (state worshippers) in Spain? Look it up, fruit inspector. You are an ignoramus. There is a reason the Catholic Churchj is under attack by the elites. As corrupted and infiltrated by commies and perverts as it is, it still stands for the same principles it did a thousand years ago. The real battle is the state against the Catholic Church.

"statues made to glorify God and other saints are not idols."

I will let Scripture rebut your ignorance and rebellion.

"Take careful heed to yourselves, for you SAW NO FORM when Yahweh spoke to you at Horeb out of the midst of the fire, lest you act corruptly and make for yourselves a carved image in the FORM OF ANY FIGURE the likeness of MALE OR FEMALE..." Deut 4:15,16

"You SHALL NOT make for yourself a carved image, ANY LIKENESS that is in HEAVEN above or that is in the earth beneath or that is in the water under the earth: You SHALL NOT BOW DOWN TO THEM to worship them..." Exodus 20:4

"You SHALL NOT make ANYTHING to be with ME..." Exodus 20:23

"Cursed is the one who makes a carved or molded image, an abomination to Yahweh..." Deut 27:15

"...And Aaron made a proclamation and said, "Tomorrow is a feast to Yahweh" Exodus 32:5 Read it again and fully understand what they were doing. EVERYONE READ THIS AND UNDERSTAND.

You have no idea what GOD or His Messiah looks like and you disgrace them both with your idolatry. You argue with Scripture and set up your images to your own destruction. Repent while you still have the chance. I have done all I can for you.

LOL! You are a sad, pathetic Pharisee,

legalistic and quoting Scripture that you do not understand. And that is because you are your own interpreter and see in it what you want to see. Why do you suppose God gave people talent, art ability, intelligence? I know that SCRIPTURE says we are made in HIS image so I have a pretty good IDEA that we are similar in some way. That artists choose to depict God/Jesus with certain characteristics is not remarkable at all. That they have glorified him with amazing art is wonderful and inspiring. You are the idolator, quoting the Bible (just as Satan can do) ONLY and ignoring other possible revelation and calling Gods gifts evil.
You have done nothing for me but make me sad for the state of the brotherhood of Christ at this point in time. I will pray for YOU. I'm sad that you can't find it in your Pharisaical heart to say one for me, a fellow sinner.

Yes, I am sad

That you have resorted to all out insults because you cannot support your argument from Scripture. I stand with the apostle Paul on Scripture. 2 Timothy 3:13-17

I did not say idolatry is not synonymous with artistry. And I do pray for you and I also forgive you. We are all sinners but we must always work toward truth and good. But I want you to know this, anger is a motivator and your anger at me may just be fruitful after all for I was once angry with those who spoke the truth.

You don't

"forgive" someone for speaking the truth. As for anger, anyone reading our exchange can see who is angry and uncharitable. I have no anger towards you, as I posted before, only sadness.

I will let

my Father in heaven judge between me with His Word and you with your "Vicarius Christi" = "Vicar of Christ" = "instead of Christ" = "Anti Christ".

I am not going to go back and forth with you any more because it is fruitless to continue to argue with prideful ignorance.

Good day

Because you refer to my

"prideful ignorance" I can only assume you are fluent in ancient Greek, Latin, Aramaic and Hebrew as well as are an authority in ancient history, customs and traditions of the Hebrew people, as well as an authority in all the styles of literature compiled in Scripture. Because that is what it takes to truly understand the Bible. The Catholic Magisterium has those things.

Does your "magisterium of you" have that? Or do you figure, in your PRIDE, that you already know it all?

Christmas.

I put up a Christmas tree each year and use the time to talk about Christ, the Trinity, and story of St. Nicholas. We talk about the true gift of salvation is given to us by God through Jesus Christ. We talk about how it is better to give than to receive. Now, these things should be discussed all the time not just once a year

Also, it all depends on whether you know Christ and trusted in him as Savior on whether your judged in the end. proof of salvation is good works and a holy lifestyle. You can curse Santa and destroy all the Christmas trees and still go to hell. Do you know Christ and does your life reflect Christ living in you??? Thats the key

That's the whole point.

You say: "Also, it all depends on whether you know Christ". If you celebrate christmas then you don't know Christ. You only know the traditions of men.

If you want to go this route,

then you also must not call the days of the week: Sunday (named for the sun god), Monday, (named for Mars), Wednesday, (named for Woden), Thursday, (named for Thor), and so on.

Many ancient churches were built over top of the ruins of a heathen worship spot, not so the church could fraternize with the heathen concepts, but to show Christianity taking dominion over the defunct heathen gods.

St Boniface, early Christian missionary to Germany, chopped down a "sacred tree" after stopping a human sacrifice near it. When the people saw that nothing bad happened to Boniface, they were able to relieve themselves of their bondage to superstitions. They chopped boughs off of "sacred" trees to put in their houses to show taking Christian dominion over the old pagan gods.

For us to put up a fir tree in our house to celebrate Advent and Christmas has nothing to do with superstition or worshiping evil spirits. No one uses his Christmas tree for such a purpose. The ancient superstitions are long gone and forgotten.

The current calendar is truly pagan

and incorrect.

Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must. like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.-Thomas Paine

The R3volution requires action, not observation!!!!

Monday

Monday is named for the moon not Mars. Hence, Lundi (lune = moon) in french etc.

Norse/Germanic name days...

Sunday - Sunna or Sol - Norse/Germanic Sun Goddess
Monday - Mani, the Norse/Germanic Moon God (male)
Tuesday - for the Norse/Germanic God Tiw (often identified as Tyr)
Wednesday - Woden (Odin) Norse/Germanic All-Father of the Gods and men
Thursday - Thor (Donner) Norse/Germanic God of Thunder and enemy of the Giants (Thurses)
Friday (Frigga) Norse/Germanic Mother Goddess and spinner of the thread from which fate (Wyrd) is woven.
Saturday - Saturn (Roman)

“Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.” —Thomas Jefferson

I think CT accidentally

mingled the week, with the months Mars = "March" en Francais

Freedom is not: doing everything you want to.
Freedom is: not having to do what you don't want to do.
~ Joyce Meyer

Mardi

is Tuesday in French. I guess it's named after Mars, the Roman god of war?

Fed-Up

Yeah

it is.

If you're like, Huh?

Watch "Truth or Tradition" on YouTube.

What next? Are you going to

What next? Are you going to tell me not to stand in line at 3am
to get into Best Buy the day after Thanksgiving to buy something I don't need?

/sarc

Well spoken. Too many outward spoken Christians are quick to latch onto the customs that degrade what they stand for, and they never realize it.

Southern Agrarian

Too many so-called Christian are superstitious at heart

Making demons out of the symbols and beliefs of long dead individuals.

The degradation is in the accuser's imagination: The adversary.

To many of us it is a cut plant stuck in water. An altar around which a liturgy of acts of service, of quality time, of affirmation, of gifts and of touch can be performed a proscribed by Jesus. He called us to follow his examples.

Our tree is decorated with family heirlooms whose histories provide hope for the future.

I've thought about it. I look forward to sharing Christmas around the tree.

Free includes debt-free!

Hear hear..

well-said :)

Jeremiah 10:2-4

The Lord says,

“Do not start following pagan religious practices. Do not be in awe of signs that occur in the sky even though the nations hold them in awe. For the religion of these people is worthless.

They cut down a tree in the forest, and a craftsman makes it into an idol with his tools. He decorates it with overlays of silver and gold. He uses hammer and nails to fasten it together so that it will not fall over.

Such idols are like scarecrows in a cucumber field. They cannot talk. They must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not be afraid of them because they cannot hurt you. And they do not have any power to help you.”

While it is true that the Christian feast of Christmas includes many pagan customs and symbols such as the Weihnachts Baum and mistletoe for the winter solstice the scripture you quote is talking about pagan idols that were made from wood and decorated with silver and gold. In the time of the New Covenant all these ancient types have a spiritual meaning and are applied to idols of the heart. In this modern age we are surrounded by many substitutes for God that we worship unwittingly in many cases.

One that is easily recognised is similar to the worship of ancient rulers in the way that Pharaoh and Caesar were held to be gods. This is of course the worship of the State which is seen today as the omnipotent supplier of all our needs. Another idol for many Christians is the Jewish State of "Israel" that virtually all the evangelical churches demand be blessed believing that they are commanded to do so by God.

It does not however stop there. We all need to search our hearts and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to us anything that stands between us and God. "You shall have no other gods before me" is not only a command. In the New Covenant it is a promise as are all the commandments. We can be assured that as we ask the Holy Spirit to remove all impediments that stand between us and God He will be faithful to keep His word to us.

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)

Tradition is just that, tradition.

I should not impose it on anyone nor should anyone impose it on me.
It's all a matter of the heart.

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. Colossians 2:16

Age of Grace...

The law cannot make a wicked person virtuous…God’s grace alone can accomplish such a thing.
Ron Paul - The Revolution

Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms. Ron Paul