-22 votes

The Fair Tax Would Be Good For Liberty

There have been so many postings with inaccurate information on Fair Tax (H.R. 25) that I had to write this article to illuminate the reason why Fair Tax is the best tax proposal available and why it provides us with a good opportunity to promote liberty.

I have been interested in various proposals to eliminate the income tax since 1980. At that time, I began to question the reasons why the IRS had to be so abusive with their useless record keeping requirements, their abusive audits, their unjust penalties, and other business killing actions. Fair Tax was launched fifteen years later, in 1995, and it offered the best political chance that I had seen to eliminate the IRS, eliminate the income tax, and eliminate the 16th Amendment.

Here are some of the major points that would be of specific interest to liberty seekers:

1. No Tax is Fair.

There is no such thing as a tax that is fair. Taxing is the same as stealing, which is a violation of the ten commandments and a violation of natural law. However, if you want to eliminate taxation completely, it is not going to happen with this current government monstrosity. According to some historians, a major reason why the Constitution replaced the Articles of Confederation was to allow the Federal Government to collect taxes. H.R. 25 assumes that you want the least invasive, politically possible method to feed a government that will steal from you regardless of your desire for a voluntary society. Fair Tax has the added advantage that it will provide an incentive for the public to become more liberty minded and will encourage new public cries for a society that is freedom oriented.

2. Fair Tax is Currently Sponsored by About 70 Congressmen and 8 Senators.

Ron Paul said that he would not co-sponsor it, but he would vote for it if he had the chance. There is more support for Fair Tax in Washington than any other tax proposal. However, if the President chooses something other than the Fair Tax, his party would probably fall in line with his tax system and it would probably be vastly more abusive and unfair than the H.R. 25.

3. Fair Tax Would Eliminate the IRS, the Income Tax, and the Sixteenth Amendment.

When you read the legislation (see the Thomas Link Below), you will see that it's purpose is clear and the idea is simple. Each state would collect a revenue neutral sales tax. It would eliminate income tax games, lobbying, and IRS abuse. Individuals would not have to continue to waste their time and money to preserve old, useless records. And there would be no more IRS threats and possible jail sentences for individuals. Businesses would still have to collect a sales tax, but it would be easier and less abusive than the income tax.

4. H.R. 25 is a Tax Bill - Not A Budget.

We already know that Congress does not pass balanced, limited, or useful budgets. That is a separate issue. Fair Tax is a method to fund the budget AFTER Congress spends the money. They will always get their money unless they miraculously come up with a budget that does not require funding. Fair Tax just determines how they will collect (steal) that money.

5. Economic Research For Fair Tax was Privately Funded By Consumers Like You and Me.

Over twenty million dollars in consumer money was donated to conduct the research that is currently being used to promote the Fair Tax. It is well funded, well thought out, expertly documented, approved by over eight economists, and the best consumer oriented tax method available.

6. Fair Tax Would Collect Money From the Underground Economy AND the 47% Who do Not Owe IRS Taxes.

Perhaps no one knows the size of the underground economy from drug dealers, illegal aliens, income tax cheaters, and other “under the table” producers. Some researchers have predicted that these hidden transactions add up to 50% of the size of the known economy. In addition, the known 47% who do not pay income taxes would have to pay the sales tax every time they make a purchase. Fair Tax consumption taxes collected by each state would have to be paid by these people to survive, even if they pursued a few underground transactions with the sales tax. This would be tax money that the IRS does not receive. The extra collections would reduce the amount of money that everyone else pays.

7. Congress Can Raise The Fair Tax Rate Any Time They Wish.

And they can raise the income tax rate or any taxes any time they wish. The beauty about the Fair Tax is that it is transparent. Every receipt would itemize the exact amount of Fair Tax being paid each time a consumer makes a purchase. Taxes would no longer be hidden and the consumer would be constantly reminded that the government is stealing from them. This might bring new liberty lovers into the political realm due to the rage it would create.

8. The Poor Would Not Have To Pay Taxes On Food and Necessities.

The major objection to the Fair Tax is that the poor would be given a heavier burden than they have under the income tax. This is not true. The Fair Tax includes a provision that would provide a grant for basic necessities. This provision of the Fair Tax is the least popular by idealists but it is the only way to prevent poor people from suffering from a regressive tax. And it is the only way to make the Fair Tax (or any tax) politically possible.

9. The Fair Tax IS Constitutional – The Income Tax is NOT Constitutional.

Fair Tax is an indirect excise tax. Section 8, Clause 1 permits a uniform tax such as the Fair tax. The complaints about the Constitution should be directed to the spending and budget, not to the Fair Tax.

Once again, no tax is Fair. But we will have a tax whether we like it or not. So, why not fight for a tax that will promote liberty, obey the constitution, and eliminate IRS tyranny?

Follow the Links Below To Learn More About The Fair Tax:

Discussion on the Constitutionality of Fair Tax by Karen Walby, Ph.D. :
http://www.fairtaxnation.com/profiles/blogs/response-to-thos...

Article By Leo Linback, Founder of Fair Tax:
http://jacksonville.com/business/columnists/2012-10-05/story...

The Only Tax Replacement Plan Backed By Eighty Economists:
http://www.fairtax.org/PDF/Open_Letter.pdf

Official Fair Tax Site:
http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=homepage2

Library Of Congress – Thomas- Official Fair Tax Bill”
http://thomas.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.25:

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If you think about

the struggle between extreme taxation and no taxation, then the Fair Tax would represent progress, relative to what we have now, for those of us who prefer no taxation. We should realize that we haven't arrived at our current state in one step overnight. Why would anyone realistically expect to reverse the whole thing with one major change? We need to understand that it will likely be a process with a series of changes that will lead us to our desired goals. If we could eliminate the IRS and also establish in people's minds the concept that their income is not subject to taxation automatically, then I believe we would have made major progress toward the goal of minimal or even zero taxation. Who would choose not to sever an arm or two off of this massive beast if given the opportunity? The Fair Tax isn't the final destination but could possibly be a beneficial step in helping us get there.

they will try to do a

they will try to do a compromise and sneak in a "small" fair tax and then screw over everyone!

do not back ANY Taxes

The Fair Tax is a lot better

The Fair Tax is a lot better than the income tax. The income tax is used to manipulate every aspect of our lives. You can't do that with a flat tax like the fair tax.

Ventura 2012

basically you want them to steal from us differently

Let's stick to no income tax period.

Choose Your Method

Exactly - Steal from us differently. Thanks for the excellent point. I will use that phrase in the future.

I will describe it another way. Steal from us with the current tyrannical system that grows off it's own spoils. Or get Fair Tax, which would put public pressure on reducing the budget each time they have to buy goods.

You are dreaming if you think that merely watching the IRS become more tyrannical will eliminate taxation.

Unless you want to attempt a failed military coup, you will have to make your changes through legislation, at least in the forseeable future. Fair Tax is politically possible. Your zero tax demand is only a dream with no support from congress or the voting majority.

I've been waiting for almost thirty-five years to get a more sensible tax collection method and it NEVER happened. If we had passed Fair Tax style legislation thirty-five years ago, Americans would have been much better off and we would be on our way to your dream of a smaller Federal Government.

Fair Tax has 78 co-sponsors and it would eliminate the IRS. Within seven years, it would require that the Sixteenth Amendment is abolished. If it is not abolished, the IRS automatically return. Politically, that would cause a much needed public outcry. And sensible public outcries are the only tool that can cause desirable change.

Fair Tax is the only method that we have with congressional sponsors that would address the problem of tyranny AND help reduce the budget with public pressure.

So, you can sit back and complain until your children become employees of the beast. Or you can support a politically acceptable solution.

Gene Louis
http://www.survivaloftheslickest.com/
Supporting a Needed Tool for Government Feedback:
A Citizen-Operated Legal System.

This is very sensible.

I hope that we can understand the importance of setting realistic goals in order to achieve the progress we desire. Our system is morbidly obese after many decades of gaining the weight. We'll need to shed it one pound at a time to minimize side-effects, although, this may not be possible if we fall into serious crisis. These are delicate times.

Of course it's politrically possibe...

Why do you think that is the case? Cause the people would benefit from it of course!

Yeah right... The ole dangle a carrot trick.. "But they'll get rid of the IRS!"

Sureeeeee, everything will be much better.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

If the "Fair Tax" would apply only to things bought with FRN's

If the "Fair Tax" would apply only to things bought with FRN's (Federal Reserve Notes) I might be ok with it. So if you bartered, or used silver you would be exempt.

Another solution to phase out the IRS would be taxing only interest and divideds (this way the consumption tax wouldn't have to be so high)

Also if we ended the Fed and the US gov issued it's own currency the Federal debt would dissapear in no time and could get rid of the IRS

The "fair" tax would be good

The "fair" tax would be good for liberty? Reminds me of the "logic" that war is peace, slavery is freedom and ignorance is knowledge. Gimme a break.

Cyril's picture

The Fair Tax Would Be Good For Liberty ? NOT.

The Fair Tax Would Be Good For Liberty ?

Allow me to have some remaining doubts :

http://www.dailypaul.com/257821/video-romney-brags-about-get...

TAX is a strictly logical justification FOR REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH, from N group(s) to M other group(s).

ANY man being corruptible, soon or late, this redistribution ALWAYS EVENTUALLY ENDS UP IN THEFT.

THEFT generates DEBT, and then ENSLAVEMENT.

On this end, I will NEVER, EVER advocate for taxes, though I probably cannot prevent them.

I will ALWAYS advocate for USER FEES :

PAY for WHAT ONE ACTUALLY USES.

Rarely, sometimes, most of the times, or all the time : doesn't matter.

With user fees, one can ALWAYS OPT OUT : when ONE STOPS using.

THAT, I think, is FAIR.

Peace.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

"I will ALWAYS advocate for

"I will ALWAYS advocate for USER FEES : PAY for WHAT ONE ACTUALLY USES."

Thats the idea of the fair tax... say for example, you didnt want to pay ANY taxes or dramatically less.... you could:

A) Grow your own food

B) Hunt your own meat

C) Raise Your own meat

D) Pickle/Can your veggies that you grow for storage

E) Create local barter networks to avoid "sales", thus avoiding the tax altogether

F) Support Local food producers to at least know when you are paying that tax, you're also supporting your neighbor and healthy, GMO free food

G) Dehydrate fruit for storage

H) Get Bee's, Make your own honey

I) DO WHATEVER IS POSSIBLE TO BE SELF SUFFICIENT

.... all of these methods will make it so you have to go to the store MUCH, MUCH less than you are know. You avoid taxes, support local economy and food movements, and ensure the quality of your food for you and your family.

On the morals of the Fair Tax alone... obviously NO TAX is better, but thats not going to happen overnight. Eliminating the IRS is a massive step in the right direction. The 23% consumption rate is designed to offset or least hinder the "burden" of the government no longer collecting our INCOME or CORPORATE TAXES. In addition to the abolishment of the IRS, the no corporate tax would be HUGE for businesses to grow and invest in human resources. The Income tax being abolished would provide individuals with much more wealth to create their own businesses and suppor smaller business growth and stability. This way, we can actually provide for a more limited, smaller Federal Government. This can also only occur with a President or an informed enough public to push for such a decision....

Point is, its a good step and deserves some serious thought rather than stubborn utopian ignorance about how NO TAX IS MORAL.... maybe so, but lets get rid of the IRS first and this is the way to do it the quickest.

Their motto is "Dont Tread On Me"...

Cyril's picture

Just my advice : address the confusion

Well, if the Fair Tax essentially works as a user fee for N points/measures out of M, then why not clarify and call it what it is - A USER FEE - for the first N measures, and then try to work your way OUT OF THE (M - N) remaining points (which are true taxation) ?

I haven't looked into it thoroughly enough, but that's the best advice I can give to its proponents :

call a spade "a spade" where it is a user fee (and IS defendable) and leave the debate open for the other issues which are addressed by traditional form of taxation - that most libertarians will reject, I suppose.

WORDS and MEANINGS are important.

We can just look at the infamies that liberals and neocons have forced onto the people by fuzzy language and confusion to have NO EXCUSE to ignore this lesson.

"My .02"

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

whatever, lets just get rid

whatever, lets just get rid of the income tax and IRS... the Fair Tax helps, then you can do what you want to avoiding paying a USER FEE/ FAIR TAX/ JERK JOB... whatever you wanna call it

Their motto is "Dont Tread On Me"...

Cyril's picture

"lets just get rid of the income tax and IRS"

"lets just get rid of the income tax and IRS"

That, for sure.

And as for taxes... if there are any absolutely unavoidable (people have been subjected to them for so long, I understand they developed an addiction of some sort...)

... I'd definitely want the peoples of the states to have THE LAST word on them, anyway.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Sorry, but your dreaming....

Sorry, but you're dreaming.... Its too easy to just be idealistic and say "taxation is theft, blah blah, blah"

We all are well aware, yet, we pay them. In order to get to the type of situation we need to take steps, and work towards it in a broader sense. The fair tax is a solution NOW to immediately get rid of the IRS and individual Income tax.... that is a great thing.

I fully support the fair tax for this reason and anyone who wants to work towards the goal of eliminating the IRS, Income Tax, Corporate Tax, and replace it with nothing has their head in the sand. It is a game of politics, whether we like it or not, and the IRS/ Income Tax is already going to be a massive feat to defeat. The fair tax is a solution that is already on the table that could get these goals accomplished the quickest.

And on your point of the states, some state taxes could be even more aggressive.

All i'm saying is DO RESEARCH, and least look at the platform of the Fair Tax before you think you are all high and mighty & too libertarian to support it. Its a massive step in the right direction

Their motto is "Dont Tread On Me"...

The reason Dr.Paul does not

The reason Dr.Paul does not support the fair tax is because it will only progress hugher with time as well as the size of government.That's its natural progression.Sending any money to a centralized government is wasteful and dangerous to freedom.And a national sales tax will probably create a bigger beast than we have now.Low state taxes or fees are all states and local communities need to have an efficient small government.Also even though the constitution states that the governments role is to provide defense,if we do what Switzerland does and have a well armed and trained citizen militia,we don't even need taxes for that.We need to starve the centralized beast and stop feeding it anything.We need a new tax revolt.

OK - If You Want to Talk About Dr. Paul

On several occasions, Ron Paul said that he would vote for Fair Tax if it came up for a vote. Basically, he said that it would reduce the burden that is now placed on Americans, although he would eventually want his falt tax (zero taxes).

Gene Louis
http://www.survivaloftheslickest.com/
Supporting a Needed Tool for Government Feedback:
A Citizen-Operated Legal System.

I've always been an advocate

I've always been an advocate for as little taxation as possible and I actually believe that almost all people privately hate paying taxes, even when they put on a big smile and "beg" publicly for their taxes to be raised out of a self-serving duty before others that income redistribution is needed or good.

Zero taxes is always the endgame. But that, like a perfect Constitutional political environment, is an unreachable, but laudatory goal. If the Fair Tax can end both the income tax and the IRS, I'm confident that a widespread black market dealing in everyday items for trade would spring up the very next day so those interested in avoiding the Fair Tax would be well served. People are always engaging in free trade on their own, despite the prevailing laws. This happens in every society.

It would be Even Better

I like your comment.

In addition, there is another side benefit of Fair Tax.

Illegal aliens, Tax cheaters, Rich fat cats, Drug dealers, and low income wage earners do not pay income taxes today. They have no incentive to demand a smaller government. However, with Fair Tax, the next time they buy a beer or a loaf of bread, they would have to pay Fair Tax. It is hard to pay Acme or Shop Rite under the table. When they have skin in the game, maybe they would vote more responsibly.

Gene Louis
http://www.survivaloftheslickest.com/
Supporting a Needed Tool for Government Feedback:
A Citizen-Operated Legal System.

You are Attempting to Use Jealousy to sell the Fair Tax

Which is "exactly" what they use to sell the Income Tax.

Why not simply work to remove the 16th Amendment.

Then Follow the Constitution as it was written which would force the federal government to stay within the delegated powers and LIMITED fiscal responsibilities.

American Patriot Party.CC
http://www,americanpatriotparty,cc

RichardTaylorAPP - Chair - American Patriot Party.CC

John Locke #201, 202, 212 to 232; Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions 1798; Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788; Rights of the Colonists 1772.

Couple Things...

First, I do like the idea of not paying taxes on any used goods. 2nd owner homes - no tax. Thrift store clothes - no tax. Used car - no tax., etc. This would give people a really good incentive to be thrifty, buy used items, and save money.

Second, what if the Fair Tax was not at 23% but at say 8%? Would more people on here support it? One of my beefs with the Fair Tax (and all other tax proposals I've heard of) is that they try to be revenue neutral... i.e. maintain the current Federal revenue levels. I think we all agree the Fed gov't should be drastically reduced, so if we cut revenues to 1/3 of what they are and scale back gov't accordingly, would this be a reasonable compromise on tax policy for the time being?

Our family's journey from the Rocket City to the Redoubt: www.suburbiatosimplicity.com

Reduction will Occur by Simply following the Constitution

Enumerated Taxation, as was intended, taxes precisely for "WHAT" the tax is needed for. No More. and resolved BEFORE it was Consensually collected.

The FairTax, as with the Income Tax, are UNENUMERATED FLAT PERCENTAGE TAXES; They collect as much as the economy will bare (and more through debt) THEN, Decide what THEY, the federal government, wants to spend it on!!!; Both systems look at "WHO" pays the tax and use Jealousy to sell both systems.

This will answer your "8% sales tax" as someone already tried to sell that Idea (in a book that was sent to me to review) as well; It doesn't change the fact that all three systems are corrupt from the start.

http://www.pacificwestcom.com/appoppositionissues

The FairTax is far more invasive than the income tax, as it allows the federal government to join with your state to define what is and what is not "a business"... It invites the federal government right into your state, county, home and computer.

Also read our responses back around page 4 of this discussion, which list the Founders documents.

American Patriot Party.CC
http://www.americanpatriotparty.cc

RichardTaylorAPP - Chair - American Patriot Party.CC

John Locke #201, 202, 212 to 232; Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions 1798; Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788; Rights of the Colonists 1772.

Why Not Simply Follow the Constitution?

Why do not all these people spend time simply removing the income tax amendment?

The "Original" Constitution the Founders INTENDED, Read This way:

Article 1, Section 9:

"No Capitation, or OTHER direct, Tax shall be laid, UNLESS in "Proportion to the Census or ENUMERATION" herein >>>"BEFORE" directed to be taken."

Was amended to:

Amendment 16:

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, WITHOUT apportionment among the several States, and WITHOUT regard to any census of enumeration."

The FairTax MAINTAINS the Corruption; It CONTINUES to finance Wasteful government, Corrupt practices and Manipulation; It Changes NOTHING but how it collects the SAME AMOUNT (and more! The Fair Tax even SAYS IT WILL!) TO SUPPORT A CORRUPT FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

The FairTax would empower the federal government simply by it's existence, "involvement" with state and local tax laws and ability to define what is a "business" in your state;

Which is anyone who either in person or in business involves himself in any business transaction! i.e. WHICH IS EVERYONE!

Why not simply spend all their time, money and resources canvasing for repeal of the 16th amendment;

(UNLESS they hope to gain something from the FairTax! Or, as I see some posters are just jealous of others)

... The FairTax is simply a more intrusive "Jealousy Tax", as it is a BUY, SELL and TRADE TAX!)

We have posted founders quotes and Constitutional Law earlier on this post which page links to them can be found from my page.

American Patriot Party.CC
http://www.americanpatriotparty.cc

RichardTaylorAPP - Chair - American Patriot Party.CC

John Locke #201, 202, 212 to 232; Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions 1798; Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788; Rights of the Colonists 1772.

Fair tax... Patriot act...

Same authors, different scam. They're criminals and need to be removed.

Massive FAIL. Not a single one of your points explains why the

so-called "Fair Tax" would be good for LIBERTY.

A plan which turns every American into a welfare recipient is by definition NOT good for LIBERTY.

Screw your head back on straight.

FT Would Be Good for Liberty

Sorry if my explanation was not effective.

If you re-read the original blog post, you will see that Fair Tax would cause a major public outcry against government tyranny, thereby giving us larger numbers of participants in the liberty movement.

This would occur after the public enjoys the peace of no IRS for several years. Then the IRS would be automatically re-instated unless America passed a constitutional amendment to reverse the sixteenth amendment. This is outlined in HR 25.

The outcry would also occur because each time a person would buy a piece of candy, a loaf of bread, a car, or a home, they would see the Fair Tax itemized. At some point, they would begin to listen to candidates who had real solutions to reducing the budget.

It would also be good for liberty because it would reduce the tax burden on liberty seekers because 100% would pay taxes instead of the current 47%.

Gene Louis
http://www.survivaloftheslickest.com/
Supporting a Needed Tool for Government Feedback:
A Citizen-Operated Legal System.

No, it won't wake people up. It will put them to

sleep permanently.

People don't read receipts as it is. Most end up in the garbage very fast.

They also won't care that 3¢ went for National Defense on that pack of gum.

The entire scheme is designed to continue funding ever massive government.

It has no interests in reducing government.

The entire requirement of remaining "revenue neutral" is the dead giveaway.

Your specific points do nothing to enhance Liberty. As written, they fail.

And you still can't answer how making everyone dependent on a government check enhances Liberty.

deleted

...wrong spot

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

IMO, No Federal Level Tax is Fair.

Taxes should be collected at the state level and the federal government should beg the states for money.

Instead, the federal govenment by-passes the states by direct taxation and then the states have to beg to get money back and jump through hoops while begging.

IMO, No Federal Level Tax is Fair.

Agreed

I feel the same way.