-23 votes

The Fair Tax Would Be Good For Liberty

There have been so many postings with inaccurate information on Fair Tax (H.R. 25) that I had to write this article to illuminate the reason why Fair Tax is the best tax proposal available and why it provides us with a good opportunity to promote liberty.

I have been interested in various proposals to eliminate the income tax since 1980. At that time, I began to question the reasons why the IRS had to be so abusive with their useless record keeping requirements, their abusive audits, their unjust penalties, and other business killing actions. Fair Tax was launched fifteen years later, in 1995, and it offered the best political chance that I had seen to eliminate the IRS, eliminate the income tax, and eliminate the 16th Amendment.

Here are some of the major points that would be of specific interest to liberty seekers:

1. No Tax is Fair.

There is no such thing as a tax that is fair. Taxing is the same as stealing, which is a violation of the ten commandments and a violation of natural law. However, if you want to eliminate taxation completely, it is not going to happen with this current government monstrosity. According to some historians, a major reason why the Constitution replaced the Articles of Confederation was to allow the Federal Government to collect taxes. H.R. 25 assumes that you want the least invasive, politically possible method to feed a government that will steal from you regardless of your desire for a voluntary society. Fair Tax has the added advantage that it will provide an incentive for the public to become more liberty minded and will encourage new public cries for a society that is freedom oriented.

2. Fair Tax is Currently Sponsored by About 70 Congressmen and 8 Senators.

Ron Paul said that he would not co-sponsor it, but he would vote for it if he had the chance. There is more support for Fair Tax in Washington than any other tax proposal. However, if the President chooses something other than the Fair Tax, his party would probably fall in line with his tax system and it would probably be vastly more abusive and unfair than the H.R. 25.

3. Fair Tax Would Eliminate the IRS, the Income Tax, and the Sixteenth Amendment.

When you read the legislation (see the Thomas Link Below), you will see that it's purpose is clear and the idea is simple. Each state would collect a revenue neutral sales tax. It would eliminate income tax games, lobbying, and IRS abuse. Individuals would not have to continue to waste their time and money to preserve old, useless records. And there would be no more IRS threats and possible jail sentences for individuals. Businesses would still have to collect a sales tax, but it would be easier and less abusive than the income tax.

4. H.R. 25 is a Tax Bill - Not A Budget.

We already know that Congress does not pass balanced, limited, or useful budgets. That is a separate issue. Fair Tax is a method to fund the budget AFTER Congress spends the money. They will always get their money unless they miraculously come up with a budget that does not require funding. Fair Tax just determines how they will collect (steal) that money.

5. Economic Research For Fair Tax was Privately Funded By Consumers Like You and Me.

Over twenty million dollars in consumer money was donated to conduct the research that is currently being used to promote the Fair Tax. It is well funded, well thought out, expertly documented, approved by over eight economists, and the best consumer oriented tax method available.

6. Fair Tax Would Collect Money From the Underground Economy AND the 47% Who do Not Owe IRS Taxes.

Perhaps no one knows the size of the underground economy from drug dealers, illegal aliens, income tax cheaters, and other “under the table” producers. Some researchers have predicted that these hidden transactions add up to 50% of the size of the known economy. In addition, the known 47% who do not pay income taxes would have to pay the sales tax every time they make a purchase. Fair Tax consumption taxes collected by each state would have to be paid by these people to survive, even if they pursued a few underground transactions with the sales tax. This would be tax money that the IRS does not receive. The extra collections would reduce the amount of money that everyone else pays.

7. Congress Can Raise The Fair Tax Rate Any Time They Wish.

And they can raise the income tax rate or any taxes any time they wish. The beauty about the Fair Tax is that it is transparent. Every receipt would itemize the exact amount of Fair Tax being paid each time a consumer makes a purchase. Taxes would no longer be hidden and the consumer would be constantly reminded that the government is stealing from them. This might bring new liberty lovers into the political realm due to the rage it would create.

8. The Poor Would Not Have To Pay Taxes On Food and Necessities.

The major objection to the Fair Tax is that the poor would be given a heavier burden than they have under the income tax. This is not true. The Fair Tax includes a provision that would provide a grant for basic necessities. This provision of the Fair Tax is the least popular by idealists but it is the only way to prevent poor people from suffering from a regressive tax. And it is the only way to make the Fair Tax (or any tax) politically possible.

9. The Fair Tax IS Constitutional – The Income Tax is NOT Constitutional.

Fair Tax is an indirect excise tax. Section 8, Clause 1 permits a uniform tax such as the Fair tax. The complaints about the Constitution should be directed to the spending and budget, not to the Fair Tax.

Once again, no tax is Fair. But we will have a tax whether we like it or not. So, why not fight for a tax that will promote liberty, obey the constitution, and eliminate IRS tyranny?

Follow the Links Below To Learn More About The Fair Tax:

Discussion on the Constitutionality of Fair Tax by Karen Walby, Ph.D. :
http://www.fairtaxnation.com/profiles/blogs/response-to-thos...

Article By Leo Linback, Founder of Fair Tax:
http://jacksonville.com/business/columnists/2012-10-05/story...

The Only Tax Replacement Plan Backed By Eighty Economists:
http://www.fairtax.org/PDF/Open_Letter.pdf

Official Fair Tax Site:
http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=homepage2

Library Of Congress – Thomas- Official Fair Tax Bill”
http://thomas.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.25:



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You do realize that FairTax is an oxymoron right?

it's like saying FairTheft.

btw, where do you ski?

The FairTax is Unconstitutional and Dangerous - Here is why:

The Original Constitution process of taxation "works", it "restrains powers" AND THAT WAS WHAT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO DO.

It also limited government, and kept government and others from attacking private property; and very importantly, it kept people "secure in their PERSON, PAPERS and PROPERTY (i.e. effects).

It was an "ENUMERATED", "CONSENSUAL" tax system, taken ONLY AFTER it was ENUMERATED as to WHAT it was to be spent on.

Both the income and FairTax are UN-ENUMERATED, FLAT PERCENTAGE TAXES; The federal government takes the money, THEN, WITHOUT your consent, they decide what to do with it...

See the difference here?

If those people that are pushing for the FairTax or FlatTax systems spent half as much of their time fighting to get rid of the income tax and replace it with "NOTHING" as the Constitution was Written, we would be rid of the income tax and much of the federal burden and bureaucracies DEPENDENT UPON such UNENUMERATED TAXATION.

But who is financing this push for a FairTax? Poor people? No.

It is being pushed by those who would benefit the greatest:

a.) Large Corporations that will milk the government from all that extra unenumerated flat percentage tax money that will be spent on Government Contracts;

b.) Unions for growth in Regulatory Bureaucracies,

c.) Special Interests from and for Federal Government Grants.

Here is more on the issue: http://www.pacificwestcom.com/appoppositionissues/

Many people are being sold a "bill of goods" about this tax.

Think of where the money is coming from to push such a tax, the ordinary person? How would they afford it?

Then ask yourself would the ordinary person benefit MORE from NO income tax, NO sales or other unconstitutional federal UNENUMERATED TAXES; and a smaller government that would result, if they simply FOLLOWED THE CONSTITUTION!;

OR would they benefit from a shift from FEDERAL (IRS) "regulatory bureaucracy regulating Income" into a "Federal/State joint Business Bureaucracy that would regulate "Business" "Sales" income.

You (and others) are looking at it only from the purchaser;

The fact is because it is a tax, there "WILL" be a Tax Bureaucracy that will Regulate and check what the "BUSINESS" brings in!!!

And just GUESS who under the FAIRTAX (JEALOUSY TAX) is going to join with your state government to DEFINE WHAT IS or WHO IS a BUSINESS?

You guessed it, the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT!;

Because you just invited them into your state, your county and YOUR HOME & COMPUTER!

Because if you are doing "BUSINESS" from your home or Internet, THEY CAN REGULATE IT AND YOU!

Paid to dig a Ditch in person? BUSINESS IN PERSON! Trade a chicken for a Shovel? BUSINESS TRANSACTION. FEDERALLY REGULATED!

Why not simply FOLLOW THE CONSTITUTION???!!!

You think the Founders having spent untold hours in the debates of the Ratifying Conventions in 1788 didn't think of these things?

It has to do with LIMITING POWERS!

Here is from Patrick Henry, Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788, as he warns of the dangers that are in fact present today:
http://www.pacificwestcom.com/americanpatriotpartynewsletter

Patrick Henry: "...Gentlemen's reasoning against a "bill of rights" does not satisfy me. Without saying which has the right side, it remains doubtful. A bill of rights is a favorite thing with the Virginians and the people of the other states likewise. It may be their prejudice, but the government ought to suit their geniuses; otherwise, its operation will be unhappy. A bill of rights, even if its necessity be doubtful, will exclude the possibility of dispute; and, with great submission, I think the BEST way is to "have NO dispute".

In the present Constitution (Articles of Confederation), they are restrained from issuing general warrants to search suspected places, or seize persons not named, without evidence of the commission of a fact, &c. There was certainly some celestial influence governing those who deliberated on that Constitution; for they have, with the most cautious and enlightened circumspection, guarded those indefeasible rights which ought ever to be held sacred!

The officers of Congress may come upon you now (under the new US Constitution), fortified with all the terrors of "paramount federal authority". Excisemen may come in multitudes; for the limitation of their numbers no man knows.

They may, unless the general (FEDERAL) government be restrained by a bill of rights, or some similar restriction, go into your cellars and rooms, and search, ransack, and {449} measure, every thing you eat, drink, and wear.

They ought to be RESTRAINED WITHIN PROPER BOUNDS... "

Sound familiar???

George Nicholas and others in the same Virginia Convention 6-16-1788 described the limitation to taxation under the welfare Clause and powers granted:

George Nicholas: "....that this "general welfare" was united, "NOT" to "the general power of legislation", but to the >particular power> of laying and collecting taxes, imposts, and excises, for the purpose of paying the DEBTS and providing for the "COMMON DEFENCE", that is, that they could raise (ONLY!!!!) AS MUCH money (ONLY!!!) as would pay the DEBTS and provide for the "COMMON DEFENCE", in "CONSEQUENCE OF THIS POWER".

The Federal Government can COLLECT TAXES UNDER THIS CLAUSE FOR "TWO THINGS ONLY", "DEFENSE" AND "DEBT" - NOTHING ELSE!

Can the states arrogate more powers to the federal government? NO.

Here is Edmond Pendleton (same convention):

"...With respect to the necessity of the "ten miles square" (Washington, DC - Federal Government) being superseded by the subsequent clause, which gives them power to make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers "VESTED" by "THIS" Constitution in the government of the United States, or in "any department" or officer thereof, I understand that clause as NOT going a "single step beyond" the "DELEGATED powers". >>>What can it act upon? "Some" power given by this Constitution. If they should be about to pass a law in consequence of this clause, they must pursue some of the "DELEGATED powers", >>>>"BUT" can by "NO MEANS" depart from them,

>>>>>(N)OR "ARROGATE" "ANY NEW" powers; for the PLAIN LANGUAGE of the clause is, to give them power to pass laws in order to give "effect" to the >>>"DELEGATED" powers"..."

Changing Enumerated Taxation to UNENUMERATED taxation is an ARROGATION OF POWER! Expressly Prohibited; The States cannot "Ratify" or "Amend" ANY Power outside the limited DELEGATED Powers, as that would be a "MEANS"; EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

This one days Convention is part of our "Suggested Reading" documents.

Blue strip along top of our first page has the four Founders document links. Also found on our Site Map page.

I think you and others will enjoy reading them.

American Patriot Party.CC
http://www.americanpatriotparty.cc

RichardTaylorAPP - Chair - American Patriot Party.CC

John Locke #201, 202, 212 to 232; Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions 1798; Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788; Rights of the Colonists 1772.

I support an excise tax on all the foriegn

goods that come into this country. Yes it would make everything more expensive. But, then it could spur and insurgence manufacturing in this country. Get rid of these free unfair trade deals. I see all this hammering about China. As a set up to another free unfair trade deal with them. They will say it is a contract to make sure the Chinese don't cheat us. Well they won't cheat us because they will have a law saying it's okay. Screw the Fair Tax and all other taxes. Once they are set. They never go away.

It's time! Rand Paul 2016!

"Truth, Justice, and the American Way!"

China should never have been

China should never have been allowed into the WTO.

I support the Fair Tax

I support the Fair Tax because it limits government more than the income tax and that's a step in the right direction. It is a 'user fee' in effect if no one buys anything in the economy new then government brings in less revenue. Or if they raise taxes producers are hit hard immediately. I think with this tax you'd have a chance in eliminating general taxes and get the government back down to only excise taxes and tariffs. (Or maybe even just tariffs one day)

I still support it, and think it will help lead to limited government

Fair Tax Will NOT Raise The Price Of Goods/Services, Why?

Because we're already paying the same amount due what the corporations already pay in taxes and pass down to the consumer. So prices for items won't change much if at all. Does anyone see a problem with this? I don't.

Also I really like argument #3 Fair Tax Would Eliminate the IRS, the Income Tax, and the Sixteenth Amendment. This is a great step in the right direction. We keep talking about what David Icke calls the "Totalitarian Tip Toe" used as a description for what many are recognizing are the gradual steps toward tyranny. Well, here we are folks, how about what I could say is a "Freedom Forward Footstep"...

-LibertyG ... 2 Corinthians 2:16-17 "To some we are a scent of death leading to death, but to others, a scent of life leading to life. And who is competent for this? For we are not like the many who make a trade(for profit) but as those with sincerity...

some taxes are not passed on

some taxes are not passed on to the consumer. As a business owner, I pass on social security, unemployment, etc.. I do not pass on income taxes or corporate taxes. I am for 0 taxes. The federal Government would have the same income that they had in 2000 WITHOUT ANY INCOME TAX.

You are Partially Correct, Pass By Form No, By Burden Yes

What many do not take into consideration is the "Burden" of taxation;

When taxes are raised upon you, you as a business person will raise your prices (or attempt to) in order to maintain your profit margin;

This automatically transfers the "TAX BURDEN" downward until it reaches someone who cannot transfer it further. Then They are the ones who "pay the "Tax Burden".

This is just one of the reasons the income (or FairTax) does not really work, as it simply creates "Tax Collectors" out of everyone.

The "Tax Burden" issue can be reviewed on our Anonymity "A" Tax page:
http://www.pacificwestcom.com/patriottax

American Patriot Party.CC
http://www.americanpatriotparty.cc

RichardTaylorAPP - Chair - American Patriot Party.CC

John Locke #201, 202, 212 to 232; Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions 1798; Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788; Rights of the Colonists 1772.

Every tax proposal is an admission by the government

..that they have no serious plans to ever cut spending. Or reduce the deficit. Just keep enabling their wasteful ways like a unrepentant gambler or drug addict.

Conscience does not exist if not exercised

"No matter how cynical you get, it's impossible to keep up!
---Lily Tomlin

there is nothing 'good' about it

it is a horrific idea.

A fair tax

could be even more dangerous to an economy than the system we have now. Some want a 10% "fair tax" others want a 23% tax. The thing is, what is stopping the congressional body from raising the taxes as high as they want? Nothing.

“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” – Dresden James

so in your book

whats from stopping them from raising all your taxes now? what stopping them from raising your income tax tomorrow, or sales tax tomorrow, or all the other uncountable taxes now. dumb argument because your going against a better system, just because it has the same risk as the current. when the new idea, would never happen because companies couldnt sell if sales tax went too high - DUHHHH

Freedom.

It is far more

convenient to raise taxes on something nobody sees come out of their pay checks. Much simpler too. Many have no clue that our roads are funded by a gas tax (actually an excise tax, but similar to a consumption tax) paid for by them every time they go to the pump. This is probably the only thing I agree with Bachmenn on, the fair tax is a stealth tax. What is stopping them from raising taxes now? The fact that people can see how much is taken out of their checks, and the fact that many are worried that they will be voted out of office quicker than G.H.W.B. other than that nothing. As a side note, I in no way support the tax system we have now, and don't feel it would benefit anyone but the policy makers by replacing it with a "fair" tax.

Is it right for the NY mob to collect 20% from ma and pop shops? Nope, why is it okay for the gubberment?

“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” – Dresden James

Yep

It might start at 10% but all the taxfeeders will make sure it doesn't stay there. Taxfeeders love voting themselves more of my money.

so write in the bill that it

so write in the bill that it can not be raised or to raise would require the 2/3 of the population vote....something like that? possible? idk im no lawyer

Right,

and to not be able to decide on how it is spent is also the deprivation of liberty, excluding the fact that forcing one to pay taxes is the loss of liberty as well. The only "fair tax" is no tax at all. I don't care if you have a bazillion dollars and do not pay taxes, you should not be forced too, and neither shall the one who makes next to nothing. Also, I am positive that any individual knows how to spend their money better than 535 people sitting at the round table.

“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” – Dresden James

Been there...

...and back.

After much research I once supported the "Fair Tax." Problem is, I supported the version submitted without ANY changes. I felt it was the first step towards waking everyone up to the true cost of government and it would succeed in eliminating the IRS. It also has some outs for those who buy used (since items are only taxed once when new).

But, as we all know, nothing gets through congress clean. And, in my opinion, the Fair Tax is such a delicate balancing act its intent would be co-opted and destroyed with ANY changes, let alone with what many in congress would do to it.

Besides, ObamaCare has established the IRS as the collection arm for its mandate and it doesn't look like it's going anywhere but deeper into our personal and business finances.

There is a much bigger stake for liberty than the "Fair Tax." If liberty regains control, the "Fair Tax" and the IRS will both be unnecessary.

I support a Flat Tax

Flat as in none.. Deflated.. Destroyed.. 0.. Zilch.

My money. My labor. I own it.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Kickstarter and crowd funding have proven you WRONG

People don't need taxes to purchases services, products, or advance society.

All taxes only lead to a redistribution of wealth and waste.

Taxes are really just 'tribute' or 'protection' to some corrupt overlord. Always has been, always will be.

================================
Fight the Ron Paul blackout on the Daily Paul (now 'P AU L'), put his removed poster back as your avatar:
http://www.mediafire.com/?9ir62bp8nshv83m

I Agree

Show me a Bill with more than a few sponsors that will eliminate all taxes and I will help you promote it.

All laws start as Bills. Without a Bill, we never get a law (unless the courts decide to manufacture a law).

Gene Louis
http://www.survivaloftheslickest.com/
Supporting a Needed Tool for Government Feedback:
A Citizen-Operated Legal System.

Don't give in so easy.

It will come.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Which is why it will never happen

It will never happen.
We are more likely to get a 3rd party than a fair tax

they will both

happen - watch and learn young paduan one.

Freedom.

savings

I used to be for the fair tax, but after much research I'm not. Any tax over 5% is not acceptable, any tax on wages is not acceptable, and any tax that is not an 'excise tax' is not acceptable.

If the tax is not 100% specifically, wholly, entirely, and completely excise it is far more insidious than I could bare to advocate for it. Meaning that if it is an excise tax, but has other components it is to much being robbed.

If there's going to be a change from the 'income tax' to a 'fair tax' it's just going to make a 'vat tax' easier to implement. It's a sheep in wool's clothing. It's merely going to take more even though it promises to take less.

If it's a choice between 'income tax' and 'fair tax' I'd rather find another solution. So stop listening to the fake libertarian Neil Boortz, he's shown his true colors.

-quiet engineer

Here's other people and their take on the "fair tax"

If they offend your eyes and ears as they do mine I apologize in advance. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctPyqOxAzI8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRB5ZRDdj40&feature=related

That's just two of the worst assholes on the planet that are in favor of the "yet another way your government wants to fuck you" tax.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Tax good for Liberty?

Is any tax "fair?"

Will my taxes be used in ways that I do not agree with? If so, I am not at Liberty?

Liberty according to Ron Paul: People should be able to keep the fruit of their labor...A tough act to follow.

That is Not The Only Comment Ron Paul Made

Ron Paul also said that he would vote in favor of the Fair Tax if he was ever given the chance to vote on it.

Gene Louis
http://www.survivaloftheslickest.com/
Supporting a Needed Tool for Government Feedback:
A Citizen-Operated Legal System.

We are share croppers...

http://www.dailypaul.com/244691/americans-will-work-more-tha...

Ron Paul did not campaign on the "fair" tax. He campaigned on people keeping the fruit of their labor. In congress he may have agreed to vote on it...I don't know, but I do know as president he wanted to repeal the 16th Amendment and let people keep their money...not replace the income tax with another tax.

Please Read The Article

Fair Tax would eliminate the 16th Amendment. The actual Bill is linked in the article and specifically requires the Fair Tax to be eliminated if the 16th Amendment is not repealed within a few years after the Fair Tax is enacted. 78 Washington legislators have co-sponsored Fair Tax, making it the most promising legislation that we have so far that eliminates the 16th Amendment.

I do request that you read the article. It is not that long. I posted it because of misinformation on the Fair Tax.

Gene Louis
http://www.survivaloftheslickest.com/
Supporting a Needed Tool for Government Feedback:
A Citizen-Operated Legal System.

i love how

your obvious checkable facts are voted down, just because they think your wrong - and probably never read it.

Freedom.