9 votes

Gary Johnson newbie here- I have a question

I am beginning to lean towards Gary Johnson a little. I am still bummed, I had my heart set on voting for Ron Paul. What I am wondering is, what does a vote for Gary Johnson do? We know he won't win, but one of his ads said that 5% of the vote changes the 2 party system forever. Can somebody explain this to me? What exactly does a vote for Gary Johnson accomplish? How does it help the liberty movement as a whole?

The only thing I know for sure is that I refuse to vote for Obama or Romney.

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Even if GJ were to get %5 of

Even if GJ were to get %5 of the vote, you would NEVER know. All the election results are going to be handled by a company in Spain.

By achieving 5%, I believe

By achieving 5%, I believe you gain major party status and ballot access is easier in the next election, meaning that donations can go towards campaigning rather then getting on the ballot.

liberty lover in Nor Cal!

The Effect of Voting

1) If you vote for Rombama, you accomplish nothing, unless the election is determined by 1 vote. If not, then your vote means 0.000000000000000000000000000000. Only the marginal vote matters. If Obamney wins the ultimate swing state by 500 votes, then your vote still won't matter because if Rombama won by 499 or 500 or 501, the outcome is still the same.

Bottom line, don't waste your vote on Rombamaney.

2) If you vote 3rd party you send a 1/40,000,000th message to the party most impacted. Think Ralph Nader. The DNC had to adopt eco-hysteria in order to quell the Nader uprising in 2008 and keep Obama from getting Algored. So if you thing driving down to the polls and then subjecting yourself to jury duty is worth 1/40,000,000th of an impact, you go for it.

Either way, if you vote, you are sanctioning the outcome and therefore have no right to complain regardless of who wins.

Jury Duty Is A Plus

If one can get oneself onto a drug possession case and through jury nullification set free someone who might otherwise be locked up in a cage like an animal.

Imagine how good you'd feel about yourself if you got to do such a thing.

___________________________________________________________________________
"Bipartisan: both parties acting in concert to put both of their hands in your pocket."-Rothbard

Good Point

But the judge would probably have me jailed for not following his instructions.

A 5% vote for Johnson could throw this election into the House.

If the Democrats win back the House (which appears increasingly likely), there will be a HUGE battle as to WHICH session of Congress elects the POTUS. Given the death threats against Romney by Obama supporters, this could get really interesting.

Appears Likely?

Based on what? I have not seen anything suggesting the democrats will take back the house. Please share.

bigmikedude's picture

I likely won't even bother voting this round.

I can't write in Paul as far as I know here, but if I show up at the booths and I can, I will vote and write in Paul only to finish this journey. If I can't well then I won't be voting.

More than likely, I probably won't even bother going to vote. After all we have been through in the last six years and the way it ended, if I get there I get there, if I don't I don't.

I just don't particularly care for Johnson, or the LP itself. Especially after the LP nominated Bob Barr of all people who endorsed Romney, adding insult to injury. What the hell were they thinking. They're a shady (or naive) party as well nominating someone like Barr and trying to pawn him off as a libertarian.

No matter who each of us vote for, we know either Romney or Obama is winning, and Johnson and Paul are not. So I see no point in all the fuss over "write in Paul", or "vote Gary Johnson." Neither vote is going to stop the inevitable. Just vote your conscience.

You're totally right bigmike

No need to completely stress out and lose sleep over who to vote for, but I am glad a lot of people are voting Gary Johnson if for no other reason than to draw votes/attention away from the illusion of choice in the D/R parties.

The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
-Thomas Paine

With 5% of the general vote

With 5% of the general vote in this election the Libertarian Party will be eligible for $90 million in matching funds next election. It's a lot easier to silence a few million than it is 90 million.

ecorob's picture

i have an answer...

go to a gitmo gary website, pronto!

before this flash in the cfr pan fizzles

you might just catch a whiff of him over there...

over here, he just smells up the joint!

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

A 5% showing brings all kinds of benefits, simplifying ballot...

access, improves matching funds, etc. However, Gary Johnson could do considerably better than 5%. He is polling higher than that nationally in several polls and is polling nearly 11% in Ohio. I absolutely believe one of two possible scenarios will result if liberty minded people gets behind Gary Johnson.

1) Gary Johnson polls enough votes to deny Obama or Romney outright victory in the general election, forcing the decision into the House of Representatives. This is a real possibility, as Politico shows Obama and Romney with locks on only 10 states each, well short of the 270 electoral votes needed for victory. This could get REALLY interesting, as the Democrats may well win back Congress in November, while Republicans presently hold a substantial margin. If that happens, there will be a real Donnybrook to determine whether PRESENT members of Congress elect the POTUS or those being inaugurated in January.

2) Gary Johnson, thanks to social media, "breaks through" with the public and actually either wins outright or runs second to Obama.
While a second place finish is more likely than a win, ANYTHING can happen, particularly with the two idiots representing the major parties. Without massive voter fraud, a Romney win is EXTREMELY unlikely, since Romney is far less likely to draw GOP special interest blocks to the polls than Obama drawing Democrat special interest blocks.

EITHER scenario would usher the "death kneel" of the GOP establishment and would seriously damage the power and influence of the elites. Since neither of these scenarios is possible without a strong showing for Gary Johnson, I urge those who wish to maximize the cause of liberty to vote for him.

Thank you for all of the info

I'm still torn but this helps.

The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
-Thomas Paine

I just about can't wait

I just about can not wait for the First week of November, so I can write in Ron Paul.
I was leaning towards GJ a few weeks after the convention, however, when I saw his stance on gay-marriage, well I just can't vote for him now. Sorry all you GJ supporters, but I've got to stand up for what I believe is right or wrong, it's called "principle", something I learned a long time ago.

I don't think the federal

I don't think the federal gov't should be involved in marriage, period, and it bothers me that GJ doesn't seem to understand RP's points on that. To me it seems like common sense. And GJ's stance on a fair tax bug me. A sales tax seems way more fair then a 'fair tax' forced on us.

Interesting,

so what is his stance on gay marriage? Seems he has changed it a few times?

To me, these issues in this election are trivial in the sense that we know he is not going to become president. I am only considering voting for him to help the movement, not to elect him. Does that make sense?

The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
-Thomas Paine

Yes it does

I am only considering voting for him to help the movement, not to elect him. Does that make sense?

...and I feel the same way.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

his stance on marriage?

you're a joke, you know nothing about freedom and if i were you i would just go for romney.

Please do not personally insult people.

Totally uncalled for.

The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
-Thomas Paine

On the face of it, working to

On the face of it, working to obtain matching funds doesn't seem like a libertarian position. When I first heard that was the goal of the Libertarian Party I was quite critical. I've done some reading on the subject, and I can now at least understand the reasoning that propels them toward their desired threshold. Kinda reminds me of the earmark discussion/debate. Not sure I can endorse the idea, simply because the money doesn't get returned to the individual--it's concentrated within a political party. However noble the cause, the concern remains that this 5% milestone will become the focus of the LP campaign every cycle until they reach it. But to be fair, here is the url to an article written in the defense of the LP position:

http://www.beyondweird.com/conspiracies/libr-ism.html

For me, I can't support Johnson because I don't find his stated positions to be ideologically consistent. I'm also wary of anyone whose gubernatorial campaign skipper has ties to the CFR. Maybe it's the tinfoil, but I think New Mexico, and I see the CFR label, I can't help but connect the dots with Los Alamos right up the road.

http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/about/foundation-voi...

"The rich man writes the book of laws the poor man must defend, but the highest laws are written on the hearts of honest men."

Johnson and the CFR

I've seen the claims about Johnson having ties to the CFR but usually the Johnson detractors make it sound more direct, like Johnson has current, active ties to the CFR. And I'm sorry to say I took those smears at face value without checking. So when you wrote that his "gubernatorial campaign skipper has ties to the CFR" it got me wondering, since "gubernatorial" implies that it's not about *current* ties.

In fact it was 1994 and 1998. That makes it pretty stale news, but it could conceivably still raise some legitimate questions if Johnson chose a CFR member to run his campaign fourteen years ago.

Except as it turns out, Johnson didn't do that.

Turner became an International Affairs Fellow in Japan seven years *after* he worked for Johnson. In other words, you're suspicious of Johnson because fourteen years ago he had an advisor who *seven years later* went on to accept a CFR fellowship to go to Japan.

Seriously dude?

If someone said that the fact that Ron Paul's campaign manager, Benton, went to work for Mitch McConnell made them suspicious that Ron Paul is secretly under the influence of the statist warmonger wing of the GOP, I'd tell them that their moronic attempt at guilt-by-association says nothing at all about Ron Paul, and everything about their own thinly-veiled bias. And imagine how much more moronic that argument will look if someone tries to smear Dr. Paul that way based on something Benton does seven years from now.

Wow

Excellent research and point!

Valid Point

You make a good case for discounting the CFR connection. That doesn't ease my concerns regarding Johnson's foreign policy views, but I will give you that the evidence I presented isn't sufficient to directly link him to the globalist agenda.

"The rich man writes the book of laws the poor man must defend, but the highest laws are written on the hearts of honest men."

A Stronger LP Pulls The GOP In A Liberty Direction

If they know we have an escape hatch, they are less able to write us off.

That is part of why the 5% threshold, with the matching funds that come with it, is important.

___________________________________________________________________________
"Bipartisan: both parties acting in concert to put both of their hands in your pocket."-Rothbard

Pulls both parties

It would pull both parties in the direction of liberty. Don't forget that the history proves Democrats to be populists guided more by polls than principle. They tend to bend with the trend. Libertarian gets 5% and it will pull the GOP back to it's liberty roots some. But if the Libertarian gets 15% or 20% of the vote both parties will go the direction of the political wind or risk getting blown away in the midterms.

Think of it like this - if Johnson comes in 2nd place in the popular vote does it matter which one of the other two candidates finish 1st? Because for that to happen would mean the election was a narrow 3way race with single digits being the difference between 1st and 3rd. Neither Obama nor Romney administration would be able to do anything extreme with the rest of Washington trying to get right with the libertarian vote before the 2014 midterms. The Libertarian comes in 2nd and the President better get down with the program or be a lame duck.

DISCLAIMER:
http://youtu.be/2n34eeXWjUQ

Fancy Shmancy Fine Print:
http://youtu.be/plIH98Kxu58

The big issue...

...is ballot access. As of now, the Libertarian Party has to spend much of its time and money just trying to get on the ballot. If Gary Johnson gets 5% or better, the Libertarian Party will be on the ballot automatically next time, meaning they can spend all their time and money actually campaigning - imagine that! : ) Plus, the bigger the number, the more media coverage, the more people become aware of libertarian ideas, etc. At this stage it's about spreading the word.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

I'm writing in Ron Paul in

I'm writing in Ron Paul in Florida and it will count, despite your disinfo.

Despite disinfo?

I didn't see any of that here?

The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
-Thomas Paine

Oh, I have a history with

Oh, I have a history with this NowOrNever shill character who goes around telling people that write-in votes will be thrown away when they will not be. My county in Florida counts them, and so do others. It's just another shill. It's my vote, not noworneverromney's, and I'm sick of the disinfo about writeins from that account.

C_T_CZ's picture

Tread carefully

Careful what you ask for - establishment party folks, already proven to be corrupt and against us - hand counting your write in ballots.

Good luck with that.

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