52 votes

Update: "Papers please." Has anyone else noticed or experienced this?

On Thursday, a friend of mine came down to visit from Vermont. At the end of the trip, he said he wanted to stop at Whole Foods to pick up some cheap wine. In Vermont, he says, there is no such thing as cheap wine. Whole Foods on River Street in Cambridge is now competing with the Trader Joe's next door, both offering a house brand of California wine for $2.99 a bottle. It is decent wine, and he ends up putting a couple of cases in his basket. Then he gets to the checkout.

Now mind you, my friend is 66 years old, and no offense to anyone, but he looks it (and he knows it). His description of himself is that he's "balding with grey hair and jowls," which is an accurate description. But still the kid at the checkout stand carded him for the alcohol purchase. And not only that, because my friend had a Vermont license, the checker needed to call a supervisor for approval!

My friend thinks this is crazy. Of course I do too, but I thought it was just isolated to Whole Foods, which is uptight like that.

But so last night I was at a bar down the hill from my place in Union Square and the bouncer dude out front cards me. He says that even though he could tell I was over 21, he had to card me by law, or he could get in trouble. Its a profiling thing. So I tell him the story about what happened to my friend at Whole Foods, and this bouncer dude, who is also an older guy too - I'd put him at over sixty also - says the same thing happened to him buying smokes at Market Basket, the cheapest grocery store in Somerville.

But in his case, he didn't have his ID on him. At that particular store, there is a little office behind plexiglass where they sell cigarettes and lottery tickets. Only the bouncer dude didn't have his ID with him. And he's fumbling around in his pockets looking for it, and the line is growing behind him with people waiting, and he said he just snapped. He tells the kid to come up close and says, "Look at me kid. Do you think I'm not 21? If you don't hand over those cigarettes right now I'm going to reach in their and grab you and pull you through this little hole."

Now, the bouncer dude was laughing when he said this. But he also said he felt like a jerk for losing it like that. But he was livid at the ridiculousness of the situation, and flustered with all the people piling up behind him. And the way he's telling the story has me cracking up. But I look at him, and he is a big, imposing guy. You wouldn't want this guy mad at you.

So I ask him, what did the kid do?

"He gave me the cigarettes," he says and we both start laughing.

(The bouncer also said that every time he goes into the store and sees that kid now he apologizes profusely to him).

But afterwards, I got to thinking about this.

What's going on? I'm used to getting carded where ever I go to buy alcohol, but I always took that as a compliment - an affirmation of my vibrant, youthful features. But who am I kidding?

Is this just how it goes in the waning days of the empire? What does it mean? Will they soon be checking ID for other things too, and this is just the long, slow acclimation process? (Oh right Sudafed now requires ID to buy. Spray paint, too, in some places where "graffiti" is a problem. Anything else?) Has something similar happened to you?

- - - - - - -

Update: I just came back from a little trip to the wine store down in the Square - not the one that is closer, where I usually go - the one owned by the Indian entrepreneurs. This time I walked across the square - popped into a few bars just to check the scene for a few minutes, then move on. A leisurely Saturday night walk.

I picked up a little four pack of Allagash White, brewed up in Portland Maine. I've been enjoying the Belgian White beers of late. But a four pack will set you back $10, so I've been modest in my enjoyment.

The cashier was an elderly woman, well into her 70's I'd say. She was caucasian, but foreign - I wasn't sure where from. The accent was not a familiar one to me.* I asked her if she was going to card me, and she said, "I have to." I asked, "is it the law?" She kind of scoffed like it was a nonsensical question. "Is it a law? They come after you for money. I had a kid come in, buy some alcohol and then the police come in saying I didn't card him. It happened to me," she said. "Many times."

"They want money," was her objective observation.

Shake down. Pure and simple.

1) Create a completely un-followable law, if for no other reason that it makes you feel like an idiot for enforcing it. "Hey granny, you're older than me, but can I see your ID?"

2) Fine people and collect when they inevitably break the law.

3) Repeat

4) Expand

* It turns out she's Portugese. There were many Portugese in this area at one time, and I imagine that she started the place with her husband a long time ago. But this neighborhood is in transition. A lot of the new, second wave immigrants are replacing the old Brazilians & Portugese. Now we have Indians and Chinese, and a lot of "Latinos." I don't know exactly what that means, but there are lots of people here from other central + south American countries that are not Mexico.

It really is like two separate workforces. Walk into any restaurant and you'll find the kitchen staff is composed nearly entirely of, as one friend calls them, "Amigos."

But I digress.

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Re: nurse practitioners: It's

Re: nurse practitioners: It's just an impression I'd gotten from that office about 2 years ago. I think these nurse practitioners must feel their job is always in jeopardy. The patient is the recipient of this fear. I'm very good at reading people. Like I said, it's a gut feeling. They have a high turnover rate there. It was time to take my business elsewhere. I drive 45 miles to my old doctor in the city I used to live in. I'd been going to that same doctor's office since I was a teenager. My doctor there likes me and as a bonus, she also likes Ron Paul.

Have you tried to get a sedative for your dog's storm anxiety lately? When my dog became crazy afraid of thunderstorms all of a sudden, my vet explained that because of drug laws, vets don't feel comfortable supplying sedatives for dogs now. My dog now has a Thundershirt. The thundershirt is not perfect, but at least my furniture is not being destroyed by a frightened dog.

And don't get me started on

And don't get me started on Bill Clinton's HIPAA. That's when I noticed this down hill slope.


And good job saying no. Continue telling them no.

Whether it's saying no to this enslavement tactic or another, let us all summon the moxie to continue to bear the torch of freedom Dr. No has passed on to us.

Give the bastards the answer: NO.

School's fine. Just don't let it get in the way of thinking. -Me

Study nature, not books. -Walton Forest Dutton, MD, in his 1916 book whose subject is origin (therefore what all healing methods involve and count on), simple and powerful.

California here..... I'm ID'd

California here..... I'm ID'd regularly, for no reason, and threatened with jail if I don't

Cops here search and break through your lock on your phone when they ID (granted they ID you without reasonable suspicion forget probable cause).

California is becoming a police state.

Cyril's picture

California here. I'm IDed regularly when I buy my cigarettes

California here.

I'm IDed regularly when I buy my cigarettes. At best, I'm asked for my birthday or birthyear only** (sure, I understand of course they don't want to sell that poison to minors, a state law) but more often, they go directly to ask and see an ID.

**Being in my forties, I can take that either as flattery or stupidity.


Even "funnier" : I've been IDed for buying a pack of 5 lighters (BIC brand) several times, now (1 or 2 times a year in my case) ... I asked to myself... is it a DHS-compliance thing or what ? Do I look like a rogue pyromaniac terrorist ?

Or was it my french accent ? (ok, j/k)

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.


"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Cashiers at Walmart

I have known cashiers at Wallyworld that have gotten fired for not IDing people over stuff like Limeaway, bleach, smokes etc. It's insane!


Too bad they got fired but

if they, in their positions were told that was part of their duties, they brought it on themselves.

We are in another war for our Independence.

Some thoughts on checkpoints and relating...

- I do not support stimulants (cigar, alcho, drugs, etc). Still I know about being a junkie.

- It comes down to living purposefully and relate in love with others. We are all humans after all.

- No papers requested for mature people emotionally and intellectually speaking, no matter the age.

- In Communist countries people are used with that checking. Sometimes very good to keep the people straight.

Positive support for Ron Paul ideas! Support from the Restoration and Liberty Movement on http://cristianpaduraru.com

I used to work at a liqour store

Undercover cops would come in from time to time to make sure you were IDing people. I let it slide if a person who I knew came in time and time again, you got to know the regulars, but for the sporatic customer... show me your papers.

May the LORD bless you and keep you
May the LORD make His face shed light upon you and be gracious unto you
May the LORD lift up His face unto you and give you peace
Follow me on Twitter @ http://twitter.com/Burning_Sirius

54 here, southern Cali.

I got carded for Smokes two weeks ago Ca. is 18 for smokes. I just started laughing and so did the girl behind the counter. I said you're kidding right? she got a dumbfounded look on her face and kinda mumbled ...um here ya go... and sold me the smokes. I don't think she was kidding .

I think

the fine is 10K. But I think it only applies to 35 and younger looking. Whenever I get carded for beer (I don't smoke any more) I say thank you and point to my son and say I would have had to been 8 to make him if I were below age now and that's not humanly possible and teach them a simple math problem. One time a new employee at a store did the math in his head and said he would have to clear it with the owner, hehe. I said, well get out a calculator. That usually does the trick. If not I just go on my merry way.

But the people at the store are bullied worse. They get undercovers who come over and if they don't ask for ID they could get a major fine. And undercovers are outside posing as kids to try to find people to buy them beer to bust customers.

Times have changed, big time.

Liberty is eroded one step at a time. But I think we will soon reach a critical mass of liberty. May have to fight for it. Not fight with fists but with minds.

Just read your update regarding the "shake down".

Much of what is being foisted upon us does seem to be more about generating revenue than about keeping people safe.

Speed traps, red light cameras, and asset forfeiture/property seizures are evidences of that.

Speed traps aren't anything new, but some are noteworthy as obviously just out to get people for money.


Where red light cameras are concerned, some cities have even been caught reducing the yellow light time to generate revenue.


Regarding asset forfeiture/property seizure, we are now seeing more cash confiscated for no good reason, and even police dogs trained to give false signals for presence of drugs so property can be searched and seized. http://www.8newsnow.com/story/18886948/2012/06/26/nhp-troope...

You described it well. It is "shake down", pure and simple.

How about kerosene

I think it was during the winter of 2007 or 2008. My central heating system in my one-family, private home was on the blink, so I was using a portable kerosene heater to keep warm. I went to a gas station in Waterbury, CT to buy five gallons of kerosene for the heater. Before they would sell it to me, I had to sign my name and write my complete address in a notebook the cashier had on the counter. When I asked why, I was told it was "the law". When I asked which law specifically, I was told I would have to talk to the manager, who of course was not there. I did this a couple of times, and then considered using a fake name and address, since no one seemed to watch what was being written. Finally, I just went elsewhere, where I didn't have to sign for my purchase. I still don't know what was going on, unless they were trying to catch people using portable heaters in multi-family rental buildings, but I found the experience rather unnerving.


he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond to receive a mark...that no man might buy or sell save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

The Revelation 13: 16-17

It is just creepy how close this prophecy is to coming true really just one or two steps left.

Of course. But the cause is

Of course. But the cause is nothing super natural or cosmic. The cause is plain to see: man vs. man. Man ruling, enslaving, man. Many stories in that book and other such books are blue prints for the enslavers, the centralizers of life.

School's fine. Just don't let it get in the way of thinking. -Me

Study nature, not books. -Walton Forest Dutton, MD, in his 1916 book whose subject is origin (therefore what all healing methods involve and count on), simple and powerful.

Actually Mandatory RFID Chips

Come to mind for this one.


I'd blame this on fear and ignorance not dictatorial behavior

I've worked a few retail jobs when i was younger and most young people are afraid of making some type of legal mistake and ignorant to the basics of real world behavior. Unintelligent youth either cut corner after corner to get ahead or triple check every little move they make in fear of harsh punishment due to a simple oversight.

On a side note i would jokingly ask older woman to show ID if i noticed they looked unhappy just to brighten there day by pretending they look really young. I always got an instant smile and there whole face would light up and they would walk out with a smile. However u never do this to an older man as that would very much be a "show me your papers" moment.

This all has has to do with

This all has has to do with laws and liability.

I work at Harris Teeter(until the 21st when I then start my career doing engineering, finally!) and they are told to card everyone. Half of it is due to liability so nothing happens to them. The other half is because of laws. If someone makes a mistake, they get a huge fine, etc.

Inerestingly, the ATF(I believe thats it) will go on "stings" and send in an underaged kid and try and buy alcohol. If they are able to, the cashier gets arrested right there and then, and the store possibly gets slapped with a fine. I think this is completely rediculous. Do this enough, you are garunteed to find someone who makes the simple mistake of not carding because it slipped their mind or whatever. Even though they may not have any problems or meant to.

To climb the mountain, you must believe you can.

Have you been fingerprinted yet?

When you cash a check drawn on a bank where you do not have an account, you have to press your thumb on an inkpad and place a thumbprint on the check. I am self employed and often receive payment by check. SOmetimes, I go to the bank that the check is drawn on and cash it at the window. The teller says " do you have an account with us?" I say no and then listen to a sales pitch and all of the benefits of having an account with them. I say no thank you and they charge a fee of $5 to $7 dollars just to cash the check. Before they hand you your money, you are required to put an inked thumbprint on the check. I asked one day why I had to do it and the clueless teller said "I think it has something to do with Homeland Security". I don't really know what my thumbprint is being used for but they have at least a dozen of them by now. I purposly smeared every single one of them.

blame the lawyers

frivolous lawsuits have f'd a lot of stuff up in our country. remember pools with high dive diving boards at the deep end?


diving boards and slides PERIOD! The stupid insurance company made us take ours down or they were going to cancel our homeowners policy. Changed companies until I found one that didn't care.


I have a funny story about the enforcers

When I was a much younger man, I obtained the drivers license of a much older arab man (i didnt look anything like him). Most cashiers did not look at it for more than 1/2 second. I had gone to the grocery store with my girlfriend waiting in the car. I parked right across from 2 guys sitting in an SUV. One of them have binoculars and I made eye contact tainking " what a fucking pervert at the college grocery store with binoculars!" I was in line for the check out when my girlfriend comes in the store telling me wait! STOP!

What's the matter I asked?
She says those perverts with the binoculars are actually secret police. They just ran up, with hands in their pockets, on this young man and his young children (99% groceries 1 bottle of wine) in the parking lot.

I thought how can I be so stupid that I saw these guys and still went in to buy beer (underage)? When we walked out they stared me down and waved at me with this stupid smirk on their face. It made me feel better when I flipped them the bird driving past them at a very slow rate of speed. I made 3 laps, at the objection of my girlfriend, begging them to fuck with me.

I live in a small town in

I live in a small town in central Ontario where now when I do a transaction in the bank I need to present my
bank card for a readable authorization and approval to transact anything even though I have banked there for twenty years and the staff know me.

How many of you have a Real ID Card?

Across the country, people are outraged by demands by businesses and government to show or worse-submit to the instant capture and downloading of all of the data contained on our driver’s licenses and ID cards - as a condition for ACCESS.

Examples of where scanning/swiping is required for ACCESS

• Public schools to pick up your child (Background Check. You are photographed, and compared to a nationwide database of criminals, the system can notify law enforcement automatically)
• To buy gasoline (even if you are paying with cash)
• TSA testing ID-scanning machines
• To buy cold medicine (“Consumers' personal information will be stored in an electronic database that will also send real-time alerts to police AND any time you buy an over-the-counter cold medicine, the state Department of Health will store your personal information in an electronic database.”)
• Casinos, age check at bars and stores
• To return goods (even when purchased with cash)

The deadline for state compliance with the Real ID Act of 2005 is Jan. 15, 2013.

Even though 16 states passed a law to prohibit implementation of the REAL ID Act of 2005 and REAL ID is voluntary for the states, most states are either compliant or working diligently towards compliance.

In 2008, then Secretary of DHS Michael Chertoff after the publication of the final rule in January, said, “embracing REAL ID” would mean it would be used to “cash a check, hire a baby sitter, board a plane or engage in countless other activities.”

Real ID compliant licenses contain your biometric data (facial biometrics are a must and some states require finger scans as well)and a machine readable portion. All states have a magnetic stripe with your data contained in it. Some also have a 2D barcode and some have an RFID chip. RFID bearing licenses are called 'enhanced driver's licenses and can be used for border crossing.

Facial recognition technology uses our 'faceprints' collected for a state ID or driver's license (and conveniently combined with our biographical data) to allow us to be identified and assessed, at a distance without our knowledge or consent

We will eventually be required to show and/or swipe our driver’s license for just about everything we as humans need to go about our daily lives. This will aid in tracking and monitoring us and also data aggregation and all the surveillance goodies that this entails.

Government pressure on its agencies and businesses and Real ID implementation is largely responsible for the uptick in demands to produce ID.

How Free Do You Want To Be?! www.AxXiomForLiberty.com

Have You Noticed

How all the new traffic lights have cameras mounted above them facing in ALL directions? These are for tracking not redlight running.


Now that is scary

I believe in showing ID for picking up your child but for personal reasons (the ex is nuts.) I make it clear I am the only person to pick up my child. I put the ex on a no pick up list. She abused my son when he was defenseless at two years old. We got divorced the next day by a paralegal. I truly hope she never finds out where he goes to his school and kidnaps him. I don't think she will but nevertheless I make sure to tell the school and the after school program every year.

But everything else is crazy to me.

I had a comment but it ended up 403

I'll make this quick.

Once I was carded for a generic NyQuil which has no precursors or anything. I asked to talk to the manager. I was incredibly sick. It was obvious I was over 18 but had no ID. I don't generally carry one. It makes me feel owned. Sometimes I carry a passport.

The manager said it was store policy and I told him to educate himself on what is restricted and why and how nobody should track a simple person trying to buy some NyQuil or ANY medicine when they are sick. I told him they lost my business. Real sudafed may be restricted but I didn't buy psuedo-fed. Pun intended.

Needless to say, I bought my soup and cough drops and the cashier slipped the medicine into the bag, free of charge.


Huck Finn... Did you think to ask?

Shortly Tom [Sawyer] came upon the juvenile pariah of the village, Huckleberry Finn, son of the town drunkard. Huckleberry was cordially hated and dreaded by all the mothers of the town, because he was idle and lawless and vulgar and bad-and because all their children admired him so, and delighted in his forbidden society, and wished they dared to be like him. Tom was like the rest of the respectable boys, in that he envied Huckleberry his gaudy outcast condition, and was under strict orders not to play with him. So he played with him every time he got a chance...

Huckleberry came and went, at his own free will... He did not have to go to school or to church, or call any being master or obey anybody; he could go fishing or swimming when and where he chose, and stay as long as it suited him; nobody forbade him to fight; he could sit up as late as he pleased; he was always the first boy that went barefoot in the spring and the last to resume leather in the fall; he never had to wash, nor put on clean clothes; he could swear wonderfully. In a word, everything that goes to make life precious that boy had. So thought every harassed, hampered, respectable boy in St. Petersburg.

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

like the Mark Twain. i read

like the Mark Twain. i read the prince and the pauper last week. i should get back to reading. i'm going to read mark twain after i finish a book about krakatoa.


Makes my day.

Thank you.

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

i had my license scanned

Like a barcode before i could object. Seriously there us a barcode in the back. That shit is wierd.

And i get more trouble buying beer now than i did when i was underage. And i am now 1/4 bald and sporting some serious bling. I feel like i am being trained for checkpoints