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Selling cars for silver coins on Craigslist

I saw an F-250 for sale on Craiglist, asking either $35000 in cash, or something like $1500 face value in pre-1965 silver coins.

That was the first time I've seen something with a specific silver coin asking price. Craigslist really is the perfect venue to start a parallel silver standard, so next time I'm selling on Craiglist I'll definitely put a silver price, too.

Have any of you posted an ad with a silver price, or even paid for something in silver lately? I think it is a great thing to get hard money back in circulation, beginning with private purchases. Trading worthless paper dollars for hard currency, even on a small scale, will help insulate us from currency manipulation.

Getting people used to accepting silver as payment is a great first step towards separating ourselves from the money monopoly.

Any thoughts for improvement?



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"Equivelant Value"

I ended up not needing to sell as much as I thought I would need to while moving out of a house this year, but I was going to put all my for-sale items on with a price, "Or equivalent value in gold or silver."

Great idea. :) All sales are just trades, aren't they?

www.standardexcellence.net - Bringing you Oklahoma, Texas and national news & opinion that matters for liberty.

Here's my CL ad for portable

Here's my CL ad for portable sawmilling service.

http://saginaw.craigslist.org/grq/3330839985.html

no not silver but i have sold

no not silver but i have sold things for ammo on craigslist and armslist.com

I Just Paid My Contractor In Silver Last Week

He did a day's work, and we converted it to silver Walking Liberties.

He must have been reading the articles and links I've been sending him, because it was his idea.

What do you think? http://consequeries.com/

Been doing this for years

Been doing this for years with my home maintenance people. It takes a little longer to discuss, and it gets them enthusiastic about monetary freedom.

I would list a price in silver just in case

there is a sucker out there willing to part with his silver, but I would NOT pay for anything in silver until after the dollar has crashed and silver has reached a more appropriate value. Trading silver for goods right now is not a good idea. It is better to use those worthless frn's while this still have some value.

I am Ron Paul.

Exactly.

Exactly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham's_law

I've offered gold coins as

I've offered gold coins as payment before. I offered the coins at significantly below spot. (eg. Spot was $1100, I offered 3 1oz coins to settle $3000)

My offer was rejected, and I paid in dollars.

That I even offered to pay in gold woke the other party up to gold's value, the problem of inflation, etc.

I saw him a year later, and he said at the time he thought I was kinda crazy but certainly doesn't think so any more.

He'd have come out way ahead

I'd imagine after seeing $1900 spot prices, he was thinking he'd gotten the short end of the stick. I think we just need to get people talking about it.

Silver and gold are beautiful, and aren't really a hard sell.

When I was little, and silver was just a couple bucks an ounce, I would save my money and buy silver bullion just to look at it and play with it. Its got a special something that everyone seems to recognize.

Author of Shades of Thomas Paine, a common sense blog with a Libertarian slant.

http://shadesofthomaspaine.blogexec.com

Also author of Stick it to the Man!

http://www.amazon.com/Stick-Man-Richard-Moyer/dp/1484036417

Wayne Paul discusses a recent court case.

Provides Acts to read and Court cases:
http://www.dailypaul.com/257701/check-out-pure-gold-pages-wa...

Free includes debt-free!

Drudge is Knocking Craigslist Today

He has a link today about CL being used openly for illegal activities. Now where did I put my list of what's left that is legal.

Ramblin Randy

i go to drudge daily

I did the research myself. And that story he posted is absolutely correct.

'Peace is a powerful message.' Ron Paul

Competing with the Federal Reserve family of Comapnies

It's "illegal', in a regulatory sense.

Congress favors companies paying franchise tax.

Drudge is suspect.

Free includes debt-free!

I no longer call...

it drudgereport, I call it the Romney report...And Drudge is more than suspect...He is has become an insider...Soon he won't link to infowars.com and that will be the day I never read it again.

Bad food, worse weather, please rEVOLution the states so I can bring my family back home!
Rosa Koire for for President!

Drudge?

I rarely go there anymore. I wonder how much Romney paid him to turn it into a Romney campaign mouthpiece?

Good way to draw ire

Really you think no one's watching?

Also it's not the most rational thing to trade unless you're on the receiving side of the pm's:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham's_law

Get stuff for paper. Give paper for stuff. Don't give stuff for paper.

If you have to trade for paper [wages], Don't get caught holding the paper. Every day you hold it you incur a loss from the face value.

Liquidity is king

You're right, but I think you're missing the bigger picture.

What we need is for some farmers to take your advise.

If gold was more liquid then it would be more valuable in a practical sense. It would also be more difficult to temporarily push down its value by prohibiting currency exchanges to trade in it, which I expect will happen when the effects of inflation get out of control.

Liquidity is strongly associated with demand.

Right now physical gold's liquidity almost exclusively provided by currency exchanges and the jewelry industry. Those types of businesses will buy your metal for currency. Imagine you could buy groceries with your metal directly. If you could then suddenly you could buy a whole lot of other things with metal as well.

Exactly.

If no one accepts it, its not worth anything.

Author of Shades of Thomas Paine, a common sense blog with a Libertarian slant.

http://shadesofthomaspaine.blogexec.com

Also author of Stick it to the Man!

http://www.amazon.com/Stick-Man-Richard-Moyer/dp/1484036417

I see lots of nay-saying here.

Whats your recommendation? I see a very strong tendency for people here to want to hoard silver, but never spend it on anything. That seems very unhealthy to a silver-based trading system.

If no one spends silver until absolute desperation, I would think pricing would be very unfavorable and put the silver spenders on the losing side.

If people spend silver all the time, valuation gets established and people won't be having to figure out fair valuation for the first time while under extreme duress.

Author of Shades of Thomas Paine, a common sense blog with a Libertarian slant.

http://shadesofthomaspaine.blogexec.com

Also author of Stick it to the Man!

http://www.amazon.com/Stick-Man-Richard-Moyer/dp/1484036417

hoarding silver

George, you are right, there's too much hoarding going on - silver does need to hit-the-street, and the sooner the better. Myself and some partners recently launched a silver-backed trade exchange called The Sovereign Exchange. We issue a digital trading unit called a Sovereign - every Sovereign represents 1 gram of Silver. We activate private accounts just like a conventional barter-exchange, however without the membership fee or any cash transaction fees. Any any point, members may redeem their Sovereigns for phsyical silver and gold. Settle for Metal!

Engage a rich new audience; Reconcile to your private account; Exchange for bullion at any time. Sovereign Exchange members Settle-for-Metal. Register at sovereignize.net

AWESOME!!!!

Hope you don't mind, but I will be trying to implement this very same idea in my local area as well. Going by grams is a smart way to go about keeping the value high (because $500 for an ounce will still be too cheap) and being able to use it in smaller denominations. I have come to the conclusion that laws legalizing silver could be a devil in disguise as well. I note that your accounts set up barter/exchange accounts and a sale does not necessarily take place. This is a key way to avoid the warrant-less taxes the Federal Gov. will try to impose on us all.

Ron brought the Liberty movement together, Rand is expanding the crap out of it! :)

Check this out..

Date: October 4, 2012
Reporting From: Santiago, Chile

I found sovereignman.com through Lew Rockwell. Its a really interesting site. If you like the following, then look it up.
__________________________________________________

"Corruptissima republica plurimae leges. [The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the state.]" -Tacitus, the Annals ca. AD 69

The nature of what is 'legal' has become a truly bizarre concept these days. Developed nations of the west have hundreds of thousands of pages of rules, codes, regulations, laws, decrees, executive orders, etc., many of which are contradictory, archaic, and incomprehensible.

Across these 'free' nations, the law is selectively enforced, selectively applied, and completely set aside whenever it pleases the state. As such, even the most harmless of activities (operating a lemonade stand, collecting rainwater, etc.) can be cast as illegal... while the direct theft of people's wealth through taxes and manipulation of the currency is considered legal.

There is no morality anymore in the law. And even still, whatever few activities may still be considered 'legal' are subject to consequences if the enforcers simply decide they don't like it.

I have a good friend you might like to hear from on the subject; his name is Jake Lawless (an assumed pen name for reasons which will become obvious), and he is a bit of a master when it comes to skirting the line between what's legal, and what they just don't like.

In Jake's words:

---

I'm a beneficiary of mortgage brokers who believed that housing prices would rise forever. The US real estate crash, plus high gas prices, forced a lot of people to sell their luxury vehicles... and the sudden glut caused prices to fall dramatically.

I didn't think much about the market for pre-owned luxury cars until one day an engine fire from a cracked turbo manifold in my truck left me stranded. After a day's search, I found a beautiful car for sale in Nevada, and the asking price was a fraction of the pre-crash peak.

I then contacted the dealer, wired a $500 deposit, and bought a ticket to Las Vegas... all after explaining that I wanted to purchase the vehicle with pre-1965 US quarters.

You may know that, before 1965, many US coins had a very high silver content. As such, they had intrinsic value... real worth, completely independent of "faith" or "because we decree it thus."

I put roughly 4,000 of these quarters (~$1000 of face value) in a carry-on bag and headed to the airport. The quick math is this-- 4,000 pre-1965 quarters contains 715 ounces of silver. At the time, silver was about $35/ounce, so 715 ounces was worth $25,000. In other words, every single quarter had a silver content worth about $6.25.

At the airport, I played my part in security theatre, dutifully removing my shoes after heaving my luggage onto the conveyor. There was a flurry of activity on other side of the x-ray machine. A crack TSA operative stormed up, indignant. "WHOA sir...I have to inspect your luggage."

Mind you, there is no law against transporting 54 pounds (24.5 kg) of quarters onto an airplane, but that didn't seem to matter. He just didn't like it. The TSA guy opened my luggage to find a ziptied cloth bag labelled "$1000".

"What's this all about?"

"That's a bag of quarters. I'm on my way to Vegas," I said, showing my boarding pass. "I have a system for playing the slots."

"Wow... will you go through all these?"

"Heck, no. I plan on coming back with even more. I told you, I've got a system. I can't lose!"

"Can I cut the zip tie off and have a look?"

"I'd rather you didn't, unless you have another zip tie...I don't want 4000 quarters rolling all over the plane."

TSA guy demurred. "Oh, ok. Well, good luck. Hope you win big!"

Upon arrival to Las Vegas, the dealer picked me up and drove us directly to a coin shop. I gave him the coins, around $1,000 in face value, and he handed them to the clerk who promptly issued a check for roughly $25,000 made out to the dealer.

It was a legitimate swap-- $1,500 worth of legal tender changed hands (my $500 original deposit plus another roughly $1,000 in face value of the pre-1965 quarters), plus value-for-value was bartered between two grown adults.

I drove away with a bill of sale for $1,500, which I then submitted to my state DMV authorities as a basis for them charging me a vehicle tax. Frankly, I think this is highway robbery. Why my state has its hand out every time two individuals conduct a private transaction is beyond me.

But what can anyone do about it? Lobby the state legislature? Rock the vote? Protest... and hope we don't get arrested, beaten, or shot by those sworn to protect and to serve? Give someone at the DMV a stern lecture about economic freedom?

Trying to change this system is a waste of resources. It's a race that everyone will lose. Besides, you could spend your whole life lobbying to change one law, and by the time you succeed, they'll have already passed another 10,000 new, even dumber laws.

Fact is, no one can do anything about this. Just like nobody can prevent Ben Bernanke from dropping money from helicopters. We can't stop the price rises from monetary inflation, we can't stop out of control spending (and theft) at all levels of government.

What we CAN do is take sensible steps to protect what's ours... and then use their own stupid rules against them. It's a much easier way to win.

---

Until tomorrow,

Simon Black
Senior Editor, SovereignMan.com

'Peace is a powerful message.' Ron Paul

That is a beautiful story.

Seriously, everyone read his story. Its just plain great, stick it to the man stuff.

I had not considered the tax aspect at all.

While it is a central part of my plan, retaining paper money to pay taxes and fees, and then using silver and gold for the people I know or care about, I hadn't considered the potential tax benefits.

So long as someone is paid in silver coin denominated at a tiny fraction of its real value, they may technically be able to list their income as like, $3000 a year.

Author of Shades of Thomas Paine, a common sense blog with a Libertarian slant.

http://shadesofthomaspaine.blogexec.com

Also author of Stick it to the Man!

http://www.amazon.com/Stick-Man-Richard-Moyer/dp/1484036417

As you might guess, the IRS disagrees

The IRS disagrees with this idea of using silver or gold coins and counting the face value as the transaction amount. Something worth checking into before filing a tax return on that basis. It happens often enough that they've streamlined the process of dealing it. Making that argument on your return means an automatic judgment against you -- you don't even get to argue your case -- plus a penalty of $5,000 ($10,000 if filing jointly). See http://www.irs.gov/irb/2008-04_IRB/ar12.html

Well played, sir.

(13) In a transaction using gold and silver coins, the value of the coins is excluded from income or the amount realized in the transaction is the face value of the coins and not their fair market value for purposes of determining taxable income.

Author of Shades of Thomas Paine, a common sense blog with a Libertarian slant.

http://shadesofthomaspaine.blogexec.com

Also author of Stick it to the Man!

http://www.amazon.com/Stick-Man-Richard-Moyer/dp/1484036417

Does that line mean

Does that line mean that whenever junk metal coins are used, like a modern quarter, the recipient should declare only .03 revenue? Or does this sentence only apply when the metal value is higher than the face value?

That's an item out of a list of *rejected* arguments

It's a list of positions that the IRS had defined to be "frivolous." If you find that line in the file, scroll back up to where the list starts to see the context.

http://www.irs.gov/irb/2008-04_IRB/ar12.html "Positions that are the same as or similar to the positions listed in this notice are identified as frivolous for purposes of the penalty ..."

In other words, if you do this, they'll reject the claim automatically (you don't even get to argue your case), they'll demand the tax that they calculate you to owe, plus a penalty of $5,000, or $10,000 if filing jointly. I'm not arguing here about what's right, just pointing out that the IRS has seen these arguments so often that they've streamlined the process of rejecting them and added stiff penalties on top of everything else.

Through law, the US Congress

Thanks for that response.

Through law, the US Congress told the Treasury and mint what face value to put on each coin. If the IRS rule says the face value is not relevant, then what good is Congress and their laws?

Does the IRS make rules and enforces those rules until it gets beat in court by a tax payer?

I think you misunderstood the argument

Suppose I find a very rare penny that coin collectors will pay a million bucks for. What the law says is that I *could* insist on using that penny to buy a piece of penny candy, if I could find a store selling it. The law doesn't say that the coin can't have value above and beyond its face value, or that I *must* use the coin at its face value. I am free to engage in a transaction based on that higher value rather than the face value.

If I agree to pay you one ounce of gold per day, what's the right way to assign a value to that transaction? Is it $50 if I give you an American eagle, $20 if I give you a double eagle, 100 Yuan if I give you a Chinese Panda, but $1740 if I give you a gold bar or round? It's a pretty lame tax avoidance argument, although far from the lamest.

But whether you agree with the ruling or not, if you file taxes on the basis of this kind of argument the IRS, rightly or wrongly, won't even give you a chance to make this argument in court. And they'll tack on a big penalty too, or worse if you're doing it on a large scale.

it's lame

Seems the IRS link above is to a bulletin. I don't know if this is a court ruling, or just part of an IRS manual that might get tested in court.

"Is it $50 if I give you an American eagle ... but $1740 if I give you a gold bar or round? It's a pretty lame tax avoidance argument..."

Congress made the law that says for a $50 American Gold Eagle, it is $50. A lot of things Congress does are lame, it is still the law until the law is changed.

From usmint.gov website, the law authorizing American Eagles: http://www.usmint.gov/pressroom/legislation/Public_Law_99-18...

usmint.gov info on the law that allows making of the one cent coin: http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/circulatingCoins/?action...

Beyond "because they can", how does an agency successfully ignore a law that sets a weight and measure?