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Selling cars for silver coins on Craigslist

I saw an F-250 for sale on Craiglist, asking either $35000 in cash, or something like $1500 face value in pre-1965 silver coins.

That was the first time I've seen something with a specific silver coin asking price. Craigslist really is the perfect venue to start a parallel silver standard, so next time I'm selling on Craiglist I'll definitely put a silver price, too.

Have any of you posted an ad with a silver price, or even paid for something in silver lately? I think it is a great thing to get hard money back in circulation, beginning with private purchases. Trading worthless paper dollars for hard currency, even on a small scale, will help insulate us from currency manipulation.

Getting people used to accepting silver as payment is a great first step towards separating ourselves from the money monopoly.

Any thoughts for improvement?



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Good luck with that

You wouldn't be the first to go to court with that argument, but if they let you go to court and let you make the argument, who knows? You might find a sympathetic judge or jury. But in framing your argument, consider that the law does *not* say that a coin can't be valued at something other than its face value. If you find someone willing to give you a thousand dollars for a rare penny, nothing in the law prevents it. The FMV of coins can work in your favor, too. Let's say you have ten gold eagles stolen. The IRS will let you report the loss at the FMV, you don't have to report just the (much lower) face value.

Anyway, if you're going to try this in a business, consider the following idea. Carry an gold Eagle with you. Let's say you complete a job for which you would normally charge $1000. You do *TWO* transactions. First, you give them the eagle and they give you $1750 in cash (or whatever the going rate is). That's a straight up fair-value exchange, no net gain to either side. The IRS views this as not taxable to either of you.

Second, they give you the $50 eagle in payment and you give them back $750 in FRNs. That's $50 face value revenue to you. You've also given them $750 in FRNs, so by the face value of the deal you have a net *loss* of $700! When it's all done you have your eagle back, plus $1000 FRNs you didn't have before, and they got $1000 worth of work done, and you have a $700 business loss to net against any gains from other customers who don't want to pay you with the gold eagle. Genius!

(Just in case: that example is to make a point, not to advise anyone to actually try this. If you see what's wrong in this example, you can see what's wrong with the tax avoidance scheme we're discussing.)

Silver but not Gold

Yes. I have noticed this too. Also noticed that most people don't barter for gold as much or in this fashion. surely,and most likely, out of fear of the gov taking it. That would be unprecendented, right??

Forget the silver

There's a person out there who thinks a used truck is worth 35K

Thats scary!

Well said.

It was probably like $55k new. It was a diesel cream-puff leather-seat land barge.

Author of Shades of Thomas Paine, a common sense blog with a Libertarian slant.

http://shadesofthomaspaine.blogexec.com

Also author of Stick it to the Man!

http://www.amazon.com/Stick-Man-Richard-Moyer/dp/1484036417

Cyril's picture

Thanks for this interesting post

Thanks for this interesting post.

"Any thoughts for improvement ?"

Not really, but for the obvious : knowledge is power; check this out, for instance and spread the clues/evidences accumulating, indeed, about Silver being MUCH undervalued, more and more blatantly :

http://www.dailypaul.com/258799/fascinating-market-analyses-...

The Math Be With Us. ;)

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

I find it enormously strange

that people seek "safety" by buying paper silver and gold in exchange traded funds. They are afraid of all their other paper becoming worthless, so they go out and buy paper that says "gold" or "silver" on it.

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article36990.html

That article explains how GLD isn't actually redeemable in gold to most anyone.

Author of Shades of Thomas Paine, a common sense blog with a Libertarian slant.

http://shadesofthomaspaine.blogexec.com

Also author of Stick it to the Man!

http://www.amazon.com/Stick-Man-Richard-Moyer/dp/1484036417

Cyril's picture

I for sure never intended

I for sure never intended to recommend buying anything but tangible silver or gold : the metals.

Sorry for the confusion, if any ! Yet, some insights on the nature of the suspicious activities on the "paper silver/gold" markets are, IMO, useful to get early clues on why it's even more important to prepare ... with the tangible metals, precisely.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

More than Craigslist

I know of a few businesses that accept silver as payment at a discount to FRN's. They still have to report the income buy the one's I've talked to enjoy the increase in value and to solitude of silver coins.

One herbal vendor I know accepts silver at 10% below the value of silver in regards to FRNs for at least the last 2 or 4 years. I just never had any silver back then.

Armslist is where the silver

Armslist is where the silver market is alive and well also. You can sell your silver with a good premium and buy stuff very easily with gold/silver.

I understand it's also pretty

I understand it's also pretty big with Loopers. ;)

Great idea!

Thanks for posting. Let's do this!

It can't hurt, right?

I'll always take silver for stuff I don't want.

Author of Shades of Thomas Paine, a common sense blog with a Libertarian slant.

http://shadesofthomaspaine.blogexec.com

Also author of Stick it to the Man!

http://www.amazon.com/Stick-Man-Richard-Moyer/dp/1484036417

even if that were true

I STILL wouldn't trade precious metals over a Petrodollar burning vehicle. That guy must be thinking "Someone out there is stupid enough to buy this car for that much Silver". Best of luck to him anyways, Craigslist has it all!

His name is Edward Snowden

What is Capitalism?
http://youtu.be/yNF09pUPypw

Why not?

I'm guessing your problem isn't trading for silver, but the amount of silver he was asking. I don't recall the exact amounts, but I do remember calculating it and figuring he was not doing silver justice.

If he had said $800 face value, it would be a screaming deal.

Author of Shades of Thomas Paine, a common sense blog with a Libertarian slant.

http://shadesofthomaspaine.blogexec.com

Also author of Stick it to the Man!

http://www.amazon.com/Stick-Man-Richard-Moyer/dp/1484036417

Because Silver

is at a MUCH higher price than NY Globex indicates. The markets are rigged to keep spot at low premiums in order to keep production moving. Silver is also in a bubble but in reverse. When it explodes silver will SHOOT to the moon!

His name is Edward Snowden

What is Capitalism?
http://youtu.be/yNF09pUPypw

Silver is "undervalued" for a reason

Silver is undervalued because people buy paper silver on Wall Street instead of buying the physical product. When the price of silver is set by imaginary exchange traded funds and on-paper-only short positions, prices will be low because they can sell silver that doesn't exist.

The best way to break silver (and gold) loose from fake valuation is to actually start using it, and when people begin trading physical silver, the fake valuations will cease to be the benchmark. The absence of a lively physical market is what keeps the price down; the market is dominated by paper trades.

If you are hesitant to spend your silver because you believe the price will skyrocket, you can ask for it instead of paper money, and even offer a discount. $25 in paper, or $20 in silver.

Author of Shades of Thomas Paine, a common sense blog with a Libertarian slant.

http://shadesofthomaspaine.blogexec.com

Also author of Stick it to the Man!

http://www.amazon.com/Stick-Man-Richard-Moyer/dp/1484036417

paper silver

I like your idea of encouraging the use of silver in day-to-day transactions, for the sake of awareness. It would be awesome for some coin shop to sponsor a flea market in their parking lot, with free spots for venders who priced everything in junk silver coins. The dealer would make his money by exchanging to or from silver at a small percentage over spot. Maybe a local news show could be persuaded to do a story about it. "Can you believe that this [whatever] is being sold for just one thin dime at a local flea market?"

But if silver is below it's natural price, then why do the people with physical silver to sell agree to sell it at the "paper" price? If the demand for physical silver were greater than the supply, then the miners and dealers with the physical silver to sell would know it better than anyone. And they would be under no obligation to sell at the "paper" price, so why would they go along with it? They'd ask a higher price if they could get a higher price. That's happened in the past, so the fact that it's not happening now suggests that the current (paper) price is at least fairly close to the natural supply/demand price. The silver miners and dealers aren't stupid.

I disagree a little bit.

When I was a kid, I used to buy silver bullion for spot price from a local coin shop. $4.25 a round, no premium. The newspaper price was the sale price.

These days, silver is $33.50 spot, and a silver eagle sells for ~$39 dollars. I don't believe the manipulation is in hundreds of percent, as some people would say, but you do pay a significant premium over spot these days for physical versus paper silver.

It doesn't follow that physical (inconvenient) silver costs more than exchange traded fund silver (convenient), unless there were shenanigans involved somewhere.

Author of Shades of Thomas Paine, a common sense blog with a Libertarian slant.

http://shadesofthomaspaine.blogexec.com

Also author of Stick it to the Man!

http://www.amazon.com/Stick-Man-Richard-Moyer/dp/1484036417

The premium is much smaller

for junk silver than for silver eagles. Tulving for example has the eagles at $2.39 over spot, and junk silver at $0.35 over spot.

If you were buying silver in high enough volume, and want it in the standard delivery bars, you could get it at spot, plus cost of delivery and insurance and so on. People do it all the time. There you're only paying spot (plus delivery cost) but it's a *lot* of silver, and it's in a form that would not be easy to trade with. It's not surprising that it costs more if you want to deal in small volumes, and if you want it in the form of coins that cost more to produce than the large bars.

i see what your saying

Silver ratio to gold is 1:16 but due to low premiums and The Fed, this ratio is being demonetize further and further away. I agree trades in physical commodities can help, but I wouldn't trade at this ratio. especially since I predict the ratio will become 1:1 in the following years. also this guy wanted $1500 in face value of Silver dollars which is roughly $50,000! way more expensive than the initial $35,000 in cash.

His name is Edward Snowden

What is Capitalism?
http://youtu.be/yNF09pUPypw

Good concept, bad execution.

With dimes or quarters, it wouldn' t be so bad, but you're right that $1500 face in silver dollars would be something like 50-60k. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I do remember it was a bad deal. Regardless, I like the idea of circulating silver, especially if I am receiving it.

How much, in terms of dollars, would you trade for ten silver dimes? How many dollars in goods would you expect to be able to buy with ten silver dimes? It seems like 25 to 1 is what people generally do these days.

The tough thing about using gold to silver ratio today is trying to assess which one is overvalued. My great grandfather was a boiler engineer, paid $20 a week. In gold, that would be something like $1800 a week (Pre-Roosevelt), which is FINE pay (93k a year). In silver, thats something like $510 a week (25k), which sounds a little more realistic, since it was the Depression and they were having a hard time.

The above reckoning makes it seem like gold is too high when figured in todays dollars, and maybe silver is a little low.

However, in the hard money days, an ounce of silver used to buy a barrel of oil. An ounce of gold would buy 20. Today, it takes three ounces of silver to buy one barrel, and an ounce of gold still buys about 20. From this reckoning, gold seems to be "spot on", and silver quite low.

Author of Shades of Thomas Paine, a common sense blog with a Libertarian slant.

http://shadesofthomaspaine.blogexec.com

Also author of Stick it to the Man!

http://www.amazon.com/Stick-Man-Richard-Moyer/dp/1484036417

Gold/silver ratio

The above reckoning makes it seem like gold is too high when figured in todays dollars, and maybe silver is a little low.

That's an interesting point about your great-grandfather's wages. People who point out that the gold/silver ratio is way off of historic levels usually assume it will be restored by silver going up, rather than by gold going down. Either move could restore things to historical norms.

Looking around the "priced in gold" site (http://pricedingold.com/) you can find lots of commodities for which the ratio to gold is off of historic norms, and always on the high side. The copper gold ratio is half of what it has usually been historically. Wheat/gold looks to be off by a factor of four or so. "Cotton would need to almost double in price from here just to get back to it's average for the last 30 years."

Reverting to historic norms could be accomplished by all of those other commodities going up in price dramatically. Or far more simply, we could revert to historic norms for all of them if gold went down, or if gold just traded sideways for a long time.

To me this all adds up to an argument for strongly preferring silver over gold at the moment.

Agreed. Silver is better.

I think silver has a brighter future, I think its valuation is less emotional. Gold is GOLD. It is not just a precious metal, it is THE precious metal. Silver is the less-cute sister, and there aren't ten guys lined up asking her to prom.

But more importantly, in a rough situation, you can't practically buy an apple with gold. 10 milligrams of gold is about the size of a grain of salt. How would you coin that? How would you carry it?

With silver, a dime is worth a few apples, a few potatoes. Perfect. If need be, a few chests of silver can be used to buy a house.

Author of Shades of Thomas Paine, a common sense blog with a Libertarian slant.

http://shadesofthomaspaine.blogexec.com

Also author of Stick it to the Man!

http://www.amazon.com/Stick-Man-Richard-Moyer/dp/1484036417

can you provide a link

I want to show my bro because we were just talking about it

Sorry man!

I saw it a few weeks ago, and it's been taken down. Here's something similar, and he paints a vivid picture of what kind of guy he is just with the ad.

http://mobile.craigslist.org/for/3310718152.html

Author of Shades of Thomas Paine, a common sense blog with a Libertarian slant.

http://shadesofthomaspaine.blogexec.com

Also author of Stick it to the Man!

http://www.amazon.com/Stick-Man-Richard-Moyer/dp/1484036417

Than It never happened.

hahha! but, yea...I've been thinking of putting stuff for sale on Craigslist in exchange for only Bitcoin or Silver Bullion.. just to promote and spread the Idea of alternative currency.

Then I'll do it!

I've got a brush guard and winch I need to sell, and I'll put a silver price on it. $500 paper money, or $17 face value pre-1965 silver.

http://mobile.craigslist.org/for/3337532012.html

Author of Shades of Thomas Paine, a common sense blog with a Libertarian slant.

http://shadesofthomaspaine.blogexec.com

Also author of Stick it to the Man!

http://www.amazon.com/Stick-Man-Richard-Moyer/dp/1484036417

Well done!

You are going the right direction with this. I would try to get 20.00 face and settle for 17.00, This is how it works in the silver world. Really, it appears you have realized how it works. Here on the DP a while back someone told me that a fine tailored suit could be had for a "20.00 gold piece" in the year 1800. A fine tailored suit can still be had right now for a "20.00 gold piece". Then someone pointed out that in the Roman times, a Pair of nice sandles and a tunic was worth one once of gold. A "20.00 gold piece" per say. Metal is pretty stable as an investment and always has been. Please save Nickels, Just ask Twain.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Its a beautiful thing

Its great to imagine that if you were to dig up a cache of gold from ancient Babylon, it would have the exact same purchasing power (likely a lot more) as it did 4000 years ago.

If we had money denominated in grams (or grains of barley), rather than dollars, there would never be any need to adjust for inflation or calculate exchange rates. A 10 gram silver coin with Mickey Mouse on it would be worth just as much as a 10 gram coin from Mongolia.

Not only would that be plain cool, but it would decouple us from the silliness taking place at the Fed and European Central Bank. If someone could get paid in silver and gold, he could read the headlines with detached interest as prices quadrupled monthly.

Author of Shades of Thomas Paine, a common sense blog with a Libertarian slant.

http://shadesofthomaspaine.blogexec.com

Also author of Stick it to the Man!

http://www.amazon.com/Stick-Man-Richard-Moyer/dp/1484036417