1 vote

Should I join the US Military?

Hi, I was just wondering, as a libertarian-minded young person, should I join the US Military, and the Air Force, specifically? I know most everyone here supports the troops, but I also know how most of us are against drone strikes, foreign, undeclared wars, etc. So my question is basically, as someone who is already very libertarian-minded, would it go against my own code of ethics to join in on (in a way) supporting undeclared wars, foreign interventionism, etc., or would it be fine in the name of protecting liberty? Let me know if you'd like more info to make a more informed opinion.

Edit: Okay, a few other factors to throw in:

I'm doing it to pay for college, rather than be under crushing student-loan debt for the next few years, so I'm doing it out of a desire to be fiscally responsible.

I took a basic placement test a few days ago and got in the 99th percentile.

Hey, also, I have a meeting scheduled with the recruiter in a few days, any suggestions for questions to ask him?

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ytc's picture

Make sure to listen carefully to what Kelley V has to report

about "the toxic open-air burn pits in Iraq and Afghanistan; the dire health effects on US troops and veterans; the class-action lawsuit against Halliburton subsidiary KBR for failing to install proper incineration units; and the government’s foot-dragging on every severe health issue effecting the military, from Agent Orange to Gulf War Syndrome" before you sign up to join the US military.

http://scotthorton.org/2012/10/22/102212-kelley-vlahos/

Only if you are a fascist or an imperialist.

If our borders ever came under attack - I would be the first to drop everything I was doing to fight off the attacker.

But wild horses couldn't drag me to a foreign country to fight an imperialistic war of aggression.

Should I go kill my neighbor's kid?

No one likes him, he's not a "Christian" and he owns LOTS of guns. He's really scary, I think I should go kill him, and my neighbors all think I should too. They are VERY supportive of the idea, and have offered to send me to college if I do it.

Love or fear? Chose again with every breath.

too close (]:)>

+1, now that is a good one - , but too close for comfort :-)
in the "us vrs them" game the recruiters want a safe distance, then the "them" can be easily vilified..

Is learning a trade, or getting free tuition

worth your soul? Chances are you will cause harm to innocent individuals or possibly be harmed yourself, all in the name of preserving the Petro-dollar paradigm and enriching the MIC. If you can deal with that, then i guess join up. Me? I could never kill an innocent person who has done nothing to me or my family OR my country. As a recovering drug addict, that wouldn't help my sobriety either

"I am Troll fighter, number one"

-Ernest

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxWb-ViejPg

tasmlab's picture

You have to murder and be shot at

You may be forced to do the most unmoral thing a person could do, murder, and potentially get killed, all to make money for the MIC, banks and oil companies...

In return for a crappy college degree that isn't helping anyone get a job these days?

Seems like wholesale insanity to me.

Why not go to an inexpensive school, work, and live frugally? It's got to be less trouble than getting shot at in some hot primitive part of the world.

AND there's no 'protecting liberty' side of the argument... That's high order propaganda

Currently consuming: Gatto: "Underground history of education..", FDR; Wii U; NEP Football

I should read comments

before i post, mine is almost just like yours- sorry man lol wasn't trying to copy you

"I am Troll fighter, number one"

-Ernest

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxWb-ViejPg

That sums it up nicely. Who

That sums it up nicely. Who the hell would even consider going in the military right now?

The Hitmen

T'h, we wish to see /read your opinion after so many comments from DPers, = to help you make up your mind..
1st see this 2 min vid -

http://vimeo.com/12483678

wolfe's picture

I suspect it was drive by poster...

One post, and never even came back to respond or read.

This is one of those things that outsiders see as a wedge issue for us and so could quite possibly be simply someone trying to stir up trouble.

In reality, these "wedge" issues that we have, are an opportunity to educate our own community and so I welcome them, and I think they do more good than harm.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

"opportunity to educate"

+1, very positive thoughts, - I scrolled down to read your comments below. DP is a great place for healthy exchanges, & learning.. thanks.

Only if you want to become a tool for the bankers.

And a pawn to be moved around for their enrichment.

Better read the book The Creature From Jekyll Island" if you haven't yet.

Might help your decision.

"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed, over-regulated, and overrun by bureaucrats. The founders would be ashamed of us for what we are putting up with."
-Ron Paul

War is a Racket

is good too

"I am Troll fighter, number one"

-Ernest

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxWb-ViejPg

scawarren's picture

No! I have a stepson, two

No! I have a stepson, two nephews and seven cousins currently in the service and it sucks for them. My cousin John left last month for Afghanistan my stepson just got home in April and has to return in January. I talked my son out of joining- thank God! I'd tell anyone no but if you're married, or have children, it's a double NO! I say don't join for the same reason I tell people to vote third party...Stop supporting the evil! Defending our country is not our military's priority right now; all the servicemen in my family know it and it sickens them.

It is easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. – Mark Twain

SteveMT's picture

No, The military is not worth the hope of a future better life.

You'll lose your humanity and lose your grounding points. Those things that you now hold dear will lose their meaning if you survive. Any mental status changes will be treated with psychotropic medications. Just the mandatory vaccinations alone could cause these mental status changes. Money in exchange for the possibilities of being emotionally, physically, or psychiatrically wounded for the rest of your life is just not worth it, IMO. Waiting is my recommendation. You'll be drafted soon enough after the war begins. Then you will have the option to join the branch of the military of your choice, like Ron Paul did. The future of our country, meaning you, should stay right here. One veteran per day on average has committed suicide in 2012. There is a reason for this, and I don't want you to find out why they did it. I don't want you to become another statistic for the military-industrial complex. Peace.

Just keep in mind...

your not fighting for liberty, the people you love, or even your country! The US military are simply the greatest force for global corporatism / neo-mercantilism the world has ever seen! The men and women of the US armed forces are used and abused to rain down hell onto the heads of any people who demand sovereignty and the right to national self-determination. I dont care how liberal and democratic a government has been in the last 50-60 years, if they serve their own population ahead of globalist interests, the US/UK/Israeli intelligence spooks will kill them all!

How can a person with a libertarian spirit sell their individuality to Uncle Sam- even for just a few years? The service is a process of brainwashing/mass conditioning and the government will chew you up and spit you out- and name you a potential terrorist when you are done. Will you take their experimental vaccines? Can you morally support a service that kills its enemies by remote control? Are you willing to be a mere pawn for the establishment of world govt and the foreign policy technocrats up at the CFR?

Our elected leaders hardly even matter when it comes to "national defense." The economic interests are so entrenched in the maintenance of the war machine; and the advocates of a global fascist order so ambitious about their ultimate victory that things will not be changing in the near future.

I feel passionate about speaking to potential recruits before they enlist. You may say that its just rhetoric, but you will come to the same conclusions down the line, assuming you salvage your ability to think critically about the nature of US policy through your career. Id love to hear what you have to say

Visit https://soundcloud.com/politics-of-freedom for all recent Ron Paul interviews, speeches, debates, forums, panels, press conferences, news coverage, and Texas Straight Talk updates!

"Terrorism is the war of the poor, while war is the terrorism of

Military Service.

"would it go against my own code of ethics" Only you can know the answer to that.

Personally my service in The U.S. Army, Infantry was one of the great honors of my life and it is something I have no regrets about. That being said however, this decision you are considering is not a light or easy one, there are many hardships, sacrifices and risks that come with military service and you would do well to educate yourself of them as much as possible and explore all your options before signing anything. I personally believe you will need more to sustain you through the hard times than a desire to expunge your college debt, so I would recommend you review your reasons for seeking this path. Whatever you choose to pursue, I wish you luck, success and peace.

“Politicians are like diapers; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.” ― Mark Twain

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world."

Only if your other

option is going to prison.

Prison is preferable.

Lots of good, honest folk get sent to prison. Can't say the same for the U.S. Air Force, the home of our very worst mass murderers and their accomplices.

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...

Forget college

and the military, run for office great benefits and opportunity to make a real difference.

Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.

I understand your reasoning

My husband joined the Navy for the simple reason that he needed to support his family. He had no degree, and no sellable job skills, and no insurance except Medicaid for me when I'm pregnant. He was too old to join the Air Force without a college degree, but he was able to enter the Navy, and we are well taken care of, even though he's gone for about half of the year. He's doing his duty to provide for his family, and he hasn't been sent to Afghanistan or any other nightmare of a place. He's only been bobbing up and down on the waves.

One of my brothers and two of my brothers-in-law are also in the Air Force. They did it for the job experience, to provide for their families, and also because they wanted to serve their countries.

I can't make this choice for you, since you do need to take care of yourself. I highly recommend that you do what is best for your own needs (not necessarily dreams and desires, but basic needs, such as food, ability to provide for yourself, defending your rights, standing up for what's right)) But I'd rather recommend the Navy to the Air Force, if only for the idea that you'd be more likely to be bobbing on the ocean than being called to serve on a battlefield. Even so, no military service is safe, when even the Coast Guard is called on 2-month deployments. You don't actually have control about where you go or what your job is, though you can state your preferences.

Maybe go for the Coast Guard or the National Guard?

You are in an enviable position in that, based on the fact that you haven't mentioned having a family in your post, you are free to do what you feel is right without someone else who is dependent on you suffering. Whether you choose to join the military or not, you can always take a stand for the Constitution (as an airman, it means not obeying unconstitutional orders, as well as whatever you choose to do out of uniform) and for our inalienable rights. I'd recommend whichever path would best strengthen you so that you can better be able to support the Constitution.

Best of luck!

EDIT:

Also, maybe you can look into an apprenticeship. There are lots of options besides college and the military.

"Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice." -- Thomas Paine

Your choice, but food for thought

Former Marine infantryman, 2 combat deployments
I'm 27, with lifelong physical disabilities and funked up dreams. Blown up 2 years ago, I've got memory loss and hellacious random headaches. Shot at more times than I can remember. 16 men from my BN were killed, 5 of them my friends, and so many wounded that official count told to us changed daily. First thing I did when I got back from my last deployment was go to a buddy's funeral who had died while I was in transit back to the states. I missed my daughter's birth. My marriage has suffered tremendously, and we have been separated for two months. I'm cynical, torn and belligerent. I say all this b/c I care about you, whoever you are and however young you may be. I have no regrets, but I would not do it again. Speaking the truth is what being "Always Faithful" means to me. Peace to you and Semper Fi to all you jarheads.

"The rich man writes the book of laws the poor man must defend, but the highest laws are written on the hearts of honest men."

tasmlab's picture

No regrets?

Wonderfully valuable and powerful story/post...

But after experiencing so much violence, witnessing so much death, having sustained injuries and trauma that will last years, the acute damage to your family, missing moments like your child's birth...

Just how bad would the outcomes have to be before you regretted this decision? Legs blown off? Paralysis? Outright divorce? A life of poverty or pain?

I ask rhetorically, but this should be hot and clear to the OP's thought process.

Currently consuming: Gatto: "Underground history of education..", FDR; Wii U; NEP Football

Regret is futile

There's nothing to be done about removing one's past. Within those confines, what is he to do but reflect, comprehend, expand knowledge, make informative decisions and be an example. Experience is invaluable, and though I would not do it again, I don't regret my experiences.

Example--> Doug Wead is now awake.

"The rich man writes the book of laws the poor man must defend, but the highest laws are written on the hearts of honest men."

Jefferson's picture

You

don't know how valuable those words are. I hope that "truthiness" pays close attention to what you have shared here, because the recruiter is going to blow a bunch of smoke.
You are not alone. There are others here that have suffered similar losses in similar situations.

My friend SGT. Zak Carter who is a long time member here did his time in Iraq, only to come home and be practically strip searched by the TSA in uniform. Since then he has done (and still does) many great things for the cause..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtK1uJD0tJM&feature=plcp

I believe that true healing comes from facing the truth about what has happened, how we've been deceived, and speaking out about it. I would encourage becoming an Oathkeeper, and at least consider joining IVAW.
http://www.ivaw.org/about

I have more respect for these guys than I do my own family member who is an officer in the USMC and works @ the Pentagon. I know 2 tours in Al Anbar changed him for life, but he still won't come to grips with the truth.

I've also spent some time with the guys of Combat Veterans for Ron Paul here in Austin and it was an honor.
http://cvrp2012.com/

Thanks for the email. If there's anything I can do to help, let me know.

You might wait

until more liberty minded people are in the government.

Why is college that important to you?

In addition to all the suggestions that you look long and hard at what joining the military would mean for you, I'd suggest you look long and hard at the assumption that college is as important as you seem to think. You're thinking of making some *huge* life decisions, as a way of paying for college, and no matter what the recruiter says you *are* taking a chance on ending up dead, or disabled in a way that would end the career goals you're hoping this sacrifice would enable. How could that be worth it?

Even if you do decide that college is a high priority for you, perhaps because you've got your heart set on some particular career, what's the rush? Can you start out with some other trade, pay your way through community college, go to state schools part time, etc., and finish your degree in eight or more years rather than four? Having a practical, low-tech skill to fall back on could turn out to be worth more than your college degree, depending on how the future unfolds, so don't think of the time spent working your way through college as "lost" time. It's good to have options.

You're young. There's more life ahead of you than you probably realize, if you're like most people your age. Take your time.

Best of luck to you!

I guess so...

If you want to kill [innocent] people for a paycheck.

Even if you don't kill directly, you will be held responsible in your life review process. Something that no-one escapes.

I feel sorry for you if you think you can chalk up human life so cheap as nothing more than a paycheck. I would rather starve to death. However, I don't care what nationality you are, come for my family and I will rightfully defend.

____

"Take hold of the future or the future will take hold of you." -- Patrick Dixon

Run for Office

I know it sounds crazy, which is why it might work. College can wait. Liberty needs you now.

What do you think of this? www.theonlinemarket.org

from Naval Officer

Joining the military isn't necessary a bad thing, but make sure you know what your getting youself into. ROTC is the way to go if you decide to join.
Ideally, you could get an ROTC scholarship to a non-military college. From what I've heard, the military schools (at least the Naval Academy) are not much fun. Do not enlist if you can do ROTC or a similiar program. The recruiters will probably try to get you to enlist and say that you can commission later. Do not go that route if you can help it.

Just remember that once you sign up, there is no turning back. You completely lose your ability quit or search for other employment. That is a freedom I will never underestimate again.

Good luck with the decision. I don't know much about the air force, but hopefully this helps. I remember writing a similiar post on dailypaul about 2 years ago.

Brad