28 votes

I want to personally thank a certain member of the DP

Hey guys, we all claim to be 'independently minded', yet, it seems that the DP is plagued with a hostile zeitgiest as of late toward a certain member.

I have taken a sabbatical to concentrate on my studies for the ministry, however, I come on time to time to read arguments usually from my Android at work.

There is someone on here who is super brave and deserves at the very least our respect. That person is: The Granger. I too have had personal disagreements with her in the past, but never was I vicious, rude or condescending in my very minor disagreements with her.

She is someone who is especially brave who advocates her positions with no apologies. She is uncompromising and truthful about her intentions. She of course also has the requisite background needed to be a Ron Paul supporter. In light of all of this, there are many who pounce on her even as they make similar arguments for their preferred choice in moving the ball forward.

I advocate to not knee-jerk down vote her. Also, do not respond unless you have something of substance to say. No stupid slogans or mottos that end up taking away all the thinking and also detract from her main points.

The Granger is a very welcomed member of the DP community, as all members are. I love and support her in her efforts. We should do the same as we all have the same goal.

If we are champions of peace, should we not make peace with our brothers and sisters on our side first before we challenge the Power-Elite? This is something central to our cause.

Any who, you can now return back to your daily scheduled programing of mainstream media lies, cover ups, distortions, distractions and of course something the mainstream will never talk about... the Truth.

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A vote is not an "endorsement".

My vote is a vote, nothing more. One mark on a tally sheet. If you get enough votes you win an election. If not, you don't.

To you and most of the Republicans in my county, my vote means something.

Apparently you think it means I "endorse" Romney and (here is the real stretch) EVERYTHING he believes in or has said that he supports or that you think he supports or that you think he might do or support if and when he happens to beat Obama and stops flip-flopping. (By your standards I could not support ANY candidate without being a hypocrite since they all have at least a few things with which I disagree. Yes, even Dr. Paul.)

To the GOP in my county, my vote means that I am a "loyal Republican" even though I am quite open about the fact that I disagree with Romney on many issues and will work to replace him in 2016 unless he turns into a Ron Paul clone when he gets into office.

Steve, since your opinion about what I do or who I vote for doesn't effect my credibility or influence within the Republican Party of Iowa or change my ability to lead, educate and influence the voters in my county I guess I will have to live with the fact that I am going to be a disappointment to you.

And if this is the kind of logic that you use to determine if someone is ideologically acceptable then I am happy to join Granger on your enemies list.

The Virtual Conspiracy

SteveMT's picture

You have been here longer than I have, so I accept what you say.

We are not enemies; we just happen to disagree on this issue.

As one doctor to another, we both want to care for our patients in the best way possible. One way is being a roll model. Although some people believe that physicians are only a source of knowledge and should not be held to the same standards that they set for their own patients, I disagree with that also. If doctors tell their patients not to smoke, drink, or eat junk food and they themselves do all of that, then that behavior is a "do as I say, not as I do mentality." If we practice what we preach, we could potentially have a bigger impact on patient care than if we did not follow our own recommendations. All I'm talking about here is consistency.

Likewise, what will have a greater impact on the future? Someone who talks against a candidate, yet votes for the candidate or vice versa? If a person believes that a candidate is not acceptable, yet they vote for them, and they subsequently win, what then? That is like our politicians who say one thing and doing another. Why should we follow their lead with this same kind of hypocrisy? If my logic is not correct, then it cannot be called logic. I sorry if you do not like this kind of thinking. This term "loyal republican" sounds like group-think, lock-step support. Why this when there is still a Constitution? We are not yet in total tyranny, so why think this way now? That is all I'm saying. There will be plenty of time for forced group votes after the fall. Why do this prematurely?


A vote IS an endorsement. It is the ultimate endorsement.

If you don't get that then maybe you are just too silly to vote.

WHO in your country is going to know that you voted for Romney. We have private ballots. You are simply rationalizing.


[ I’ll put my output here at the bottom of this important subthread. I understand the uptight urge to uphold a tightass observance of binding traps in the plumbing of movements. Let it go.]

‘Release the prisoners!’

From the movie ‘The Patriot’:


Falling in line is their regime’s marching orders -- Why does one feel all bound up?

Where is the real intestinal fortitude?

Grit isn’t digested by clenched teeth. ( Watch Mel’s Patriot loosen up).

Dump constrictions.

On the subject of being NOW, and bearing down for the sake of the future, and in light and lightheartedness of theological ideologies, here’s my final output on the question of the lessening of evils :

“Shit is a more onerous theological problem than is evil. Since God gave man freedom, we can, if need be, accept the idea that He is not responsible for man's crimes. The responsibility for shit, however, rests entirely with Him, the creator of man.”

― Milan Kundera, The Unbearable Lightness of Being

the stranger's picture

The Theology of Ideology

Burning™ - “do not respond unless you have something of substance to say” ...you'll have to let me know if I've met your requirements.

Maybe you're misinterpreting what you read in the many comments that disagree with the Granger. Perhaps it's simply her theocratic approach to ideology. Or it could be that she best represents, to many here apparently, a pathway to a dead end - by taking the path of working within the system. Many contend the road map no longer guides. They point out that that energy expended in this pseudo-journey is wasted. Some even contend that energy expended in this manner strengthens the system. Count me among them. If you don't see it this way, you don't see it this way. You might even figure working within the system can't hurt – effectively washing your hands with some derivative of Pascal’s Wager.

Empirical signposts refute the validity of this 'voting is relevant' paradigm, and they are legion. In the end Ron Paul himself openly states his disgust for contemporary American politics. It's not taking his words out of context to quote him as saying, “it's not my party... it's a one party system... no, I won't endorse Obamny.” Granger in-turn, could find many things Dr. Paul has said that to support her beliefs. But at this point in history, pulling the levers of federal voting machinery will not stop this storm. A hard rain's gonna fall.

Storm - ForeTold,

+1, Hy O' Strangerr, you wrote prophetically =
"~ at this point in history, pulling the levers of federal voting machinery will not stop this storm. A hard rain's gonna fall."
folks on the east coast of america are witness.

the stranger's picture

Sandy Weill margin call

And continuing with the metaphor we have Jim Willie;

“...the New York Stock Exchange was finally shut down for two days due to uncontrollable liquidity and its widespread damage, due to a Hurricane Sandy Weill margin call on systemic failure.”

similar to the 911 fires.

this looks similar to the 911 fires in the towers, or the plane hitting the Pentagon.


this time they can blame the water. Gold does not get 'wet'.

Show me a person who does not subscribe to a doctrine

and I will show you pigs flying.

I do not know what your criticism is. I merely said to be respectful and thoughtful when replying. If you cannot, don't because it causes forum sliding and other Cointelproish activity.

That being said, we can have a debate full of substance.

May the LORD bless you and keep you
May the LORD make His face shed light upon you and be gracious unto you
May the LORD lift up His face unto you and give you peace
Follow me on Twitter @ http://twitter.com/Burning_Sirius

O.K. start...

showing me that Pigs can fly. Antiestablishmentarianism is my middle name.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Thanks To All ...

... whose outlook in upward.



What do they KNOW about dead ends?

I am working in my second year of being a Republican. I spent 17 years in the Libertarian Party, that has it's own battles, and 16 years as an independent working with Nader, who never belonged to any party, on ballot access and open debates. I've done more than my share of petitions, third party and Indy campaigning for what Ron paul has intived us into the GOP.. So we're off the streets now and some folks don't want to leave the street. OK.

Meanwhile, Ron paul Republicans are showing up at GOP meetings, and we are learning despite the broken bones, lying, cheating, censorship, we are not going to bail,, we can take it, because we have a message FREEDOM IS POPULAR, we have a goal, RESTORE THE REPUBLIC, and we have the inspiration of Ron Paul to build a better GOP, a better America, a better world.. until the sky falls, we will build anyways.

Granger, correct me if I am wrong,

but you are ethically bound to vote for Republican candidates as an agreed upon condition of your position within the California Republican Party. I respect that.

What I don't understand is your apparent insistence that all of us do the same, and if we even hint that we might do something else, you take our collective heads off for it.

Be this as it may, I do not see any valid reason for the outpouring of hostility you have been subjected to. If I have ever been a participant in these attacks, let me know. You have my sincerest apologies in advance.


Usually this idea "ethically bound to vote for Republican candidates" is written as the person is bound to support the R candidate. So you can't put a GJ yard sign out front of the house. But you can take your time and energy to support R candidates in local races that you do support.
Then you will be too busy to give any time to the Pres race. And ballots are still secret, so do whatever you want in the voting booth.

Why would anyone be

Why would anyone be "ethically bound to vote for Republican candidates as an agreed upon condition of your position within the California Republican Party"?

It's not like RP seems to feel "ethically bound" to vote for Romney.

If you're ethically bound to vote for anyone as a condition of GOP membership, wouldn't it be the candidate that is most likely to do the GOP that Ron wants to see, some good? Which would be whichever candidate most effectively teaches GOP strategists that it is in their interest to nominate candidates more like Ron than Mitt.

We are past candidates in the GOP

Now we have to deal with the candidate we got. It's up to us to teach Mitt and that's what we're going to do, city by city, county by county, state by state. IN THE GOP.. now you can and should go elsewhere to figure your fight.. but we are committed because we want to be, we want to materiaze Ron paul's message despote the irty tricks, the fraud, the censorship, the stolen elections.. we will not stop and run to someone who appears like a choice. The more candidates and ioffices and seats filled with us.. the more Mitt is going to learn what constitutional government is.. all we have to do is show up and then see what you can do.. maybe it's organizing a float in the parade?

I have not insisted

I have said many times, DO WHAT YOU WANT.. However, I am going to hold up my position, because to me, this is fight or flight time.. those who fight, remain in the GOP where the fight to restore the Republic, where Ron Paul kept it, Rand Paul is doing well, the campaign and many of the national delegates, and seated committee members, are doing what ever it takes to remian doing things by Roberts Rules of Order, GOP by-laws, constitutionally, keeping our oaths and exercising the one to the constitution, for that is where liberty comes from.

If you don't want to fight, and goodness there are many reasons here why people refuse to fight but rather flight to another candidate or a write-in whether Ron Paul is qualified or not. To vote Obama or to not vote,, all of that is running away from the fight and spending the rest of the election looking for the next body surfing event, or sign wave. Ron Paul has brought us past that.. but if that's where you want to be.. by all means, enjoy it.

Why are you condescending?

If you are so insistent that you can "DO WHAT YOU WANT", why do you go out of your way to chastise people for doing what they feel is best?

respect begets respect. maybe if you feel you aren't getting respected you should think about how you are treating others.

PS. Liberty doesn't come from a piece of paper.

could you give me an example?

Kiberty comes from the people standing for the constitution.

the list goes on and on

Submitted by The Granger on Mon, 09/24/2012 - 20:40. Permalink
It's backfiring on the GOP because they know they've been had by Romney, and we're not leaving the GOP, but holding them to the loyalty oath they took to the constitution.

Ron Paul is brilliant, unlike you, full of holes and looking for more.

another personal favorite...from granger

The BIG deal is Ron Paul RepubliCANs who are seated in the GOP and heirs to his message. It's about us, while you are no different that the Neocons and Neolibs, knocking us.

an oldie but a goodie

The point is you have no experience
Submitted by The Granger on Mon, 09/24/2012 - 20:26. Permalink
But you watch a lot of MSM and youtubes

here is some of your best work, granger

and I AM a credentialed, qualified, elected and seated Ron Paul RepubliCAN, while you are not a Ron paul RepubliCAN or in the rEVOLution, but part of the Liberty from the rEVOLution movement to NOWHERE with NOTHING. Enjoy.

the second paragraph of the comment I responded to

It came off (IMO) that people who sign wave are insignificant. As someone who has embraced the political process I would think you would appreciate this role. I think we can all appreciate that we have different talents and need to find, for ourselves, the best way to advance liberty within those talents.

Plus it brings the insinuation that all who disagree with you are nothing more than insignificant sign wavers and body surfers when some may feel that they have more direction than that strawman.

Thank I apologise

No one is insignificant.. if there is not way to gt you a committee, no way to become a delegate, no way to be a guest and explaining your sign.. by all means, way that sign.. maybe they will look, but more than anything, they will smirk.. I'm sorry.

What concerns me, is that there are open seats and opportunities being passed by because of what people think, not what they KNOW about their local GOP. I sincerely encourage everyone to go see for yourself.. you may find four Ron paul Republicans there controlling the committee and happy to have you come in and wave signs for parades, events.. where people won't smirk.

We can take the GOP, but folks have to get over the wonds and step up to the fight. It's a good fight. WE ARE WINNING. You've got to go SEE to believe. See it, then say what you saw.

yes yes yes

"there are open seats and opportunities being passed by"

YES and YES.

"We can take the GOP, but folks have to get over the wonds and step up to the fight."

I am sometimes frustrated by the talkers who won't simply show up and take the unfilled precinct captain positions. USE THOSE POSITIONS to vote in friendlies to run the local GOP.

Just a question, Why the down check(s)?

I ran across this thread and started reading. I noticed Granger's comment had a "-1", but no response. Huh?

If you think her comment is bad, take the time to point out the problem, otherwise keep your ratings to yourself.

The Virtual Conspiracy

I agree.

It's clear from four pages' worth of comments that Granger has many friends here at the Daily Paul, people who appreciate hearing her perspective on things whether they agree with her or not. Perhaps people unwilling to identify themselves, preferring to hide behind their down votes, don't want to risk alienating themselves, assuming that they'd find themselves treated in kind. Guess they don't understand the Golden Rule.

When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe.
~ John Muir

Do you still want Israel to attack Iran Before the Elections ?

or are you quietly confidant now that your neocon war monger mitt witt can win and go straight to war!constitutional Republican,I think not...LOL


Mitt is not a constitutional Republican

That is the problem we hope to resolve within the party.. help it find it's way to restoring the republic. And yes, I believe Mitt will win with the electoral college.. and I think we'll face a tough time on some of these issues being held to the constitution.. it's no small feat, but with preserverance and persistance, we will prevail.