22 votes

Please help me formulate a defense against mandatory vaccination.

Hello DP community. The hospital I work for has recently implemented a mandatory annual influenza vaccination policy for all employees. I have stated my objection to this policy on the grounds that an employer does not have the right to mandate medical therapy or treatment of employees.

I have been called to testify before the ethics committee of one of the largest medical centers in the country this next week to defend this position. I would like to ask for some assistance in coming up with the best defense I can. To me it just makes sense, but I have a feeling that will not quite cut it.

Can someone help me formulate a response perhaps grounded in western philosophy. The key theme seems to be that each human being has a right to their life and has the ultimate authority of deciding what goes into their body or not. Perhaps the committee will say sure they do and they are welcome to quit their job if they don't want to follow our directions. I don't know. What are your thoughts?

The only position I will be able to defend is that an employer cannot mandate injection of a medication as a condition of employment. Please do not tell me how bad vaccines are or cancer viruses or anything like that. If you want to help... stick to this one issue.




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Read The Flu Vaccine Insert That Was Leaked

http://www.dailypaul.com/260628/leaked-2012-2013-flu-vaccine...

It killed several people in the testing for one. The other contraindications are horrid.

Get an attorney and sue them if they don't back off or fire you.
Don't take no for an answer.

November 6th 2012 I voted for Dr.Ron Paul
"We must remember, elections are short-term efforts. Revolutions are long-term projects." ~ Ron Paul

Have you gone before the ethics committee yet?

If not, DEMAND the OSHA officer be there, too. Present this:
http://poorrichards-blog.blogspot.fr/2012/10/italy-bans-nova...

and this
http://12160.info/profiles/blogs/health-canada-suspends-dist...

Make the OSHA officer produce the MSDS on the shot. Say this demonstrates that reasonable people have decided the side effects are too risky. Threaten to take them to the Supreme Court. Pharma does not want anyone making an official opinion on this.

This is the article that got my posting privileges revoked:
http://bklim.newsvine.com/_news/2013/05/12/18212165-dr-stan-...

meekandmild's picture

4th amendment to the constitution

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Most have been convinced this applies only to government, but it also apply to corporations and persons who try to violate your rights.
USC title 42 section 1983, civil action law suit for those who violate your constitutional rights.

Stear clear

of legal arguments that say they can't because, if they disagree, they'll deny your whole argument a lot faster.

Focus on why they shouldn't require you to. That they should have employees who think so carefully about their health, etc. Tell them how you think carefully about your diet and lifestyle, too. Don't get too specific so it won't be about whether your non-mainstream choices can convince them, just that you're a thoughtful person in all areas and that's a package deal with an occasional roadblock like this, but they should want you as a whole package.

Defend Liberty!

Gather what you can from this flier that I made a few years ago:

It helped in my state when they wanted to force doctors and nurses to get vaccinated:

http://semperliberi.com/swine_flu_flyer_front.pdf

http://semperliberi.com/swine_flu_flyer_back.pdf

"Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. It's not." (Dr. Seuss)

Visit 909shot.com, if needed

Visit 909shot.com, if needed they can refer you to attorneys who are familiar with these sorts of situations.

As for help with the argument, was this condition of employment in the employee handbook (or on some form you signed) when you were hired? If not you can add this to your argument. It shouldn't be the cornerstone of your case though.

It's also worth noting "hospital policy" is not state law. Keep that in mind. I'm confident regardless of the state you live in there is no law on the books making what the hospital is trying to do legal. (That being medicate you against your will.)

In the event of forced vaccinations, use this form

In the event of forced vaccinations, use this form

Preparedness is everything. This may never happen. But if it does, you'll be informed and ready with forms for everyone in your family.

Hi, all,
The story goes deeper into crime. Remember in 1976, the swine flu vaccine killed 2,300 people in 2 weeks after the government paid billions for the "free"-to-public vaccine? The vaccine was pulled and is still in the vaults.

Virus are not alive; they have no nucleus, respiratory or digestive systems. Virus are protein wastes in solvent solutions. They are as contagious as Tide soap. It is impossible for one animal tissue in solvent solution to appear in another animal because those tissue are not part of another animals cellular structures.

Have they been distributing the old swine flu vaccine as other medication in pockets in Mexico because they know it causes swine flu residues in people. The stories about it appearing in other countries are fictitious stories because I have not been able to get any laboratory confirmation. Were those stories planted by US government and the pharmaceutical house that vaults the vaccine? Do the laboratory and government want to resell the vaccine and get rid of it for profit. The government is still paying for it to be vaulted and that is very expensive. Why didn't they dump it?

For the same reason they did not dump AZT when it was discovered by independent observers in 1969 that AZT was too toxic for chemotherapy? But when the government created the AIDS epidemic by contaminating Hepatitis B Vaccines and, in Africa the Smallpox Vaccines, they brought AZT out of the vaults and claimed it was good to treat AIDS. They treated AIDS patients with it and it killed most of them and they made a big profit as well as taking over 27 African countries resources.
Research the work of Dr. Leonard Horowitz and read the book Bio-Attack Alert.

With the swine flu, they are creating an imaginary "pandemic" and viola, people will flock to take the swine flu vaccine. With the Geneva Convention articles, they cannot force vaccine on anyone but they may be able to quarantine people for a few days.

Remember that no vaccine has proved to be effective, including polio. Many such diseases have cycles and polio was down to less than 1% the year before the polio vaccine was issued in 1958. All vaccines are issue after the diseases have diminished and big pharma takes credit for riding the planet of the diseases. If polio were a problem, why isn't it an epidemic amongst third world people who cannot afford and do not take polio vaccines? Why is polio non-existent in Amish and Mennonite communities where they don't take vaccines?

To help you avoid any forced vaccine here or in any other country, I have given you 2 pages below to be kept and taken with you. The first is the letter that the person requiring you to take a vaccine must sign before you take it. The second page is instructions on how to handle the situation.
.
healthfully,
aajonus

____________________________________________\

page 1

ACCEPTANCE OF RESPONSIBILITY

I, the undersigned, having assumed decision making power independently, or having been appointed to such, by a government bureaucracy or corporation controlled by such, do require the following individual(s):

_______________________________________________________________

to receive the following vaccination(s):

_______________________________________________________________

contrary to laws of this state that provide religious and philosophical exemptions.

I further agree that the stated individual(s) are in excellent to perfect health prior to the administration of such immunization(s).
Consistent with this demand, is my personal acceptance of full responsibility for any and all damages resulting from such immunizations. As a result, I agree to provide compensation amounting to $1,000,000 to the family(s) of the persons you are requiring to receive the aforementioned vaccinations for each resulting vaccine related injury(s) and/or disease(s) as follows:

Death: http://www.909shot.com/Kids/richie.htm
Sudden infant death syndrome: http://www.909shot.com/Kids/nicky.htm
Shaken baby syndrome: http://www.vaclib.org/basic/sbsindex.htm
Cerebral bleeding: http://www.vaclib.org/basic/sbsrebut.htm
Cancer: http://www.sv40cancer.com/
Tumors: http://www.gulfwarvets.com/virus.htm
Asthma: http://vaccines.net/Asthma/allergie.htm
Auto-immune disease(s): http://healthresearchtoday.com/lupus/whatislupus.htm
Polio: http://www.909shot.com/Diseases/rotavirus.htm
Bowel blockage: http://www.909shot.com/rotaviru.htm
Autism: http://www.909shot.com/Diseases/Autism.htm
Brain damage: http://www.vaclib.org/news/2006/pentacel.htm
Mental retardation: http://www.vaclib.org/news/2006/pentacel.htm
Crippling arthritis: http://www.vaclib.org/intro/hepbinfo.htm
Paralysis: http://www.909shot.com/Kids/terry.htm
Mercury poisoning: http://www.gulfwarvets.com/kids.htm
Diabetes: http://vaccines.net/diabetes.htm
Blindness: http://www.vaclib.org/email/lymefda.htm
Loss of IQ: http://www.vaclib.org/email/autismviera.htm
Pain: http://www.909shot.com/Diseases/hepbcasereports.htm
Seizures: http://www.vaclib.org/email/seizures.htm
Chronic fatigue syndrome: http://healthresearchtoday.com/fibromyalgia/book_104.htm

*Note that virtually all of these conditions /diseases are incurable by modern medicine, but easily prevented by abstinence!

Name (print):___________________________________Position:__________________

Signature:___________________________________________Date:__________

Sounds like extortion to me.

If all else fails, keep your job, get the shot, take lots of colloidal silver - the good high quality kind - not the cheap knock-off variety filled with metallic silver.

Denise B's picture

One approach

you could use, aside from the legal and moral arguments is one of safety. You could express concerns about the safety of these vaccines (there are numerous scientific articles out there detailing the potential hazards of them) and that you would be more than willing to take the vaccine if the hospital will provide a written statement that they will be legally liable for any harm caused you by the injection of said vaccine, because they are, after all, the ones asking you to take it. There isn't a hospital in the world that will sign such a statement, and you could refuse on those grounds alone. How can you be required to put something in your body that the hospital isn't even willing to guarantee you will not be harmful to you?

Allergic to eggs

The flu shot contains egg proteins, say you are allergic to eggs. Then say you will press assault charges on who ever injects you the vaccine.

If I were your employer

I would fire you. You can be allergic. And you can be unemployed AND allergic.

Honestly people. How are y'all libertarians and yet not getting the most basic concept of VOLUNTARY ASSOCIATION. If you don't like the mandatory aspects of your job, set out by your employer, then YOU CAN QUIT or be fired. That's the whole damn point of the liberty movement!

UUUUUUuuuuuggggghhhhh.... seriously sometimes I wonder if I should stop reading posts on this site.

Vaccinate your damn kids so I don't have to watch them suffer and/or die. Please. And if you must get vaccinated as terms of employment, then STFU and get your shot, or quit. That is all.

WTF?

What's next mandatory RFID chips? Your a loser!
Go Vaccinate your yourself!

In Liberty

religion

My employer is violating my religious beliefs. Will fire me based on religious discrimination. Threaten to file a civil rights lawsuit. Religious beliefs are protected.

I apologize for being so blunt...

but please don't be so ignorant. You should BE SUPPORTING THE RIGHT OF EMPLOYERS TO DISCRIMINATE!!! I'm not saying you should be in favor of religious discrimination (which, by the way, this is NOT)... but you should be in FAVOR OF THE RIGHT TO DO SO!!!

Good god dammit people. Honestly. What do you think Dr. Paul would say on this subject?? Pull your head out.

It seems very frustrating

..to you that other people do not live up to your expectations. People are all at different places in the "liberty" movement there is not one approved ideology.
You are not in charge of correcting others.

Some persuasive dialogue would be more helpful than your all caps Prima Dona scolding. Just a thought.

peAce

Liberty = Responsibility

Yeah, you're right, I should keep my voice down.

But I don't get how this is an expectations thing. It seems obvious that if you support Ron Paul (and by extension, freedom), then you couldn't possibly be against freedom of association. That's pretty much the whole point. It'd be like posting "I think Ron Paul sucks" or "hurray for tyranny". It doesn't make any sense.

agree with you

"It seems obvious that if you support Ron Paul (and by extension, freedom), then you couldn't possibly be against freedom of association."

This is the expectation you have of others that support Ron Paul. Your logic is very sound from my perspective, for whatever that's worth.

This movement is filled with a good portion of single issue folks. Then there are people who see Liberty as the principle responsible for our past prosperity and all that came with it.
The Liberty as the foundational principle folks are not the majority of this movement.

I suspect the single issue folks are were you find people that do not make the full journey from Dr Paul to freedom of association as a Liberty cornerstone.

Thanks for the dialog.

peAce

Liberty = Responsibility

I did not say it was right

It was just argument using the sacred cows of the politically correct. I personally will not work anywhere where my employer acts like they own me. However, this person maybe the only bread winner, has kids to feed, and is feeling extremely violated by their employer's ultimatum. So, I understand the dilemma.

But than again, you(Libertarian American...lol) probably like the TSA naked body scanners and mandatory groping of innocent people so you have the illusion of safety. May I ask you question, does the government have the right to drug you without consent? And if vaccines are so safe, why must you sign a waiver?

This person, Z, asked to give an argument against their employer who is attempting to force his will upon their body. Z, wanted a medical one, I gave the argument "I am not an animal, but a human being". As a libertarian, you object to killing others. Well, in the vaccine inserts, death is always a possiblity. There are vaccine exemptions based on religious objections in all 50 states. If you don't own you, then who owns you?

Again, it was just an argument. Good day.

WTF? ...

For my feelings on the TSA just check out my profile pic. That outta clear that up purdy damn quick. How in the hell did you think I like choosing cancer/porno machine versus sexual assault by the government every time I go to the airport? You inferred that from my standing up for voluntary association between private individuals?

And how did you get "government" from "private employer" and "drug" from "vaccine"? No, of course the government doesn't have the right to drug you. Or vaccinate you against your will. But that's not the situation here. Here, a private employer is mandating something (anything) as a condition of employment. So either you do it, or you quit. Sure, you can try to negotiate w/ your employer. By all means, negotiate away. But at the end of the day if your boss wants something done (anything) as a condition of their voluntarily employing you, and you voluntarily being employed, then that's it. Period. Done. End of argument.

Likewise, if you wanted to quit for some reason (any reason), your employer has no right to force you to come to work. You want a raise and he/she won't give you one? You want to have a condensed work schedule and they say no? Or anything else bothering you? You can quit. Period. Done.

So you object to the

So you object to the cancer-promoting machines at the airport but the cancer-promoting ingredients in vaccines you're okay with? Just brilliant.

"if your boss wants something done (anything) as a condition of their voluntarily employing you, and you voluntarily being employed, then that's it. Period. Done. End of argument."

Uhhh, no, that's not the end of argument. Though it might be the end of your boss' career depending of what you're being asked to do as a condition of employment or further employment.

a)Ask for a time deferral of

a)Ask for a time deferral of a few weeks. Gather as many of your coworkers as possible, networking through as many like minded coworkers and have them network other coworkers. It shouldn't be difficult to gather a crowd. Have as many coworker sign pledges to refuse vaccination, damn the consequences.

b) Gather as much research as you can showing the negatives of vaccinations, as well as research showing effectiveness of such vaccines.

c) Go to the committee hearing, WITH your coworkers attending, and present your research. Give recognition to the fact that the company DOES have the right to terminate your employment and hire compliant individuals, but in the interest of health concerns employees have about vaccinations, to please waive this policy.

d) Inform the company that just as they have the right to require their employee to take vaccination, so too employee have the right and ultimate responsibility to protect their own health, and that the group present does not believe these vaccines to be proven safe. Submit coworker pledges to the committee.

e) Continue to refuse vaccinations, and live with consequences.

f) If you win, call the press. Make it public.

----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

Kudos, sir or ma'am.

Although I vehemently disagree w/ your view on vaccines (see posts above or below this one) ... THANK YOU SO MUCH for at least making the legitimate libertarian argument against them!!!

For all you folks out there tearing me a new one for my crazy "the earth is round" 21st century science... this is how you make a libertarian argument against vaccines. I'm still right on why they're good, and I still get really sad when I see your poor kids get ill from your stupidity... but at least this is the legit way to go about avoiding your life saving vaccines.

Again, thank you.

In a "free country" the right to say "NO" is inviolate.

"First do NO HARM." They will not be able to argue that vaccines do "no harm" - they are invasive and will break the skin if nothing else. If they are willing to violate your right to say "No," where is the "informed consent?" If dissent is not possible, it is still "informed assault."
Good luck. I can't believe they are even letting you speak, you will be in my heart over the next few days. Please update this!
This is the FRONT LINE of the "personal liberty" war. Go get 'em, soldier!

This is the article that got my posting privileges revoked:
http://bklim.newsvine.com/_news/2013/05/12/18212165-dr-stan-...

You are wrong.

Please see the above post.

"Herd immunity " is nonsense

Vaccines are forced under the guise of "herd immunity" and yet the argument is ridiculous. If the vaccines work, the immunized stay well / survive and the non-immunized get sick / die. Unfortunately, recent history is showing the OPPOSITE trend. Study up on the polio vaccine, and here is a fact you will have trouble verifying, but you can if you dig. The FIRST polio vaccine did not use live virus, offered NO risk of contagion, and was offered to humanity without patent. Banksters quashed it and unleashed a mini-epidemic of polio thanks to the profitable, patented vaccine.

This is the article that got my posting privileges revoked:
http://bklim.newsvine.com/_news/2013/05/12/18212165-dr-stan-...

Barbara Loe Fisher @ The National Vaccine Information Center

Check out the links below:

http://youtu.be/ULFjk1-Efew

and here is a link to her website concerning this very matter you are seeking information.

http://nvicadvocacy.org/members/National/HealthCareWorkerMan...

http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-News/September-2010/Forcing...

I hope this information will be of help to you.

Freedom of Religion

Unless you live in a state where you are allowed to be terminated for any reason. That will keep you employed a little longer but also earn you a firing squad (aka a file for termination for dumb stuff or outright lies.)

Private property

If there is a question of rights, always look to who owns the property. You own your body, it is your private property, thus you do with it as you wish. If you are not self-imployed, you do not own your job. Stand up for the private ownership of your body, if you do not own your body you are a slave. Deny all non-concentual attempts to manipulate your property, if they fire you, become self-employed.

Enonesoch

Goes with the job

All three of my Daughters are in the Health care industry. Two are CNA's and the oldest just graduated from college as a Surgical Tech. It goes with your choice of employment. If you choose to work for me as a truck repair technician you have acknowledged that you might have to get cancer causing used motor oil on your person. If not then you have other options for employment. How can I run my business and fill requests that my employees will not be exposed. My insurance company requires a waiver from new hires. There it is... Insurance companies.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.