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Please help me formulate a defense against mandatory vaccination.

Hello DP community. The hospital I work for has recently implemented a mandatory annual influenza vaccination policy for all employees. I have stated my objection to this policy on the grounds that an employer does not have the right to mandate medical therapy or treatment of employees.

I have been called to testify before the ethics committee of one of the largest medical centers in the country this next week to defend this position. I would like to ask for some assistance in coming up with the best defense I can. To me it just makes sense, but I have a feeling that will not quite cut it.

Can someone help me formulate a response perhaps grounded in western philosophy. The key theme seems to be that each human being has a right to their life and has the ultimate authority of deciding what goes into their body or not. Perhaps the committee will say sure they do and they are welcome to quit their job if they don't want to follow our directions. I don't know. What are your thoughts?

The only position I will be able to defend is that an employer cannot mandate injection of a medication as a condition of employment. Please do not tell me how bad vaccines are or cancer viruses or anything like that. If you want to help... stick to this one issue.

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Problem is, they can't sue. The vaccine maker is now immune

from suits, and the employer is as well in most cases, because the employee signs an indemnity clause that the employer is not responsible for any problems arising from taking it.

Essentially, it is "mandatory" but you give them permission to screw you and then agree not to hold them accountable for anything, because you do this "of your own free will."

In short, they claim you "have the choice to quit your job instead."

What crap.

Exactly my concern.

This is what will happen -gauranteed--but the government is mandating to the hospitals and other connected facilities that they have to do it to get the medicare and medicaid money so the hospitals may claim gov is responsible.
Look at what just happened with the cortizone shots which are produced under much higher scrutiny than the mere flu shot and 15 people and counting are now dead and all of their families are in mourning- how many will die if one batch of flu shot is contaminated?
They produce alot of this stuff per batch.
Especially if there are no immediate signs of infection--if it took afew days to manifest it could be 100x or more worse than whatever the shot was supposed to protect you from-if the vaccination itself could possibly kill you what's the point?
Anyways I hope we can change this but we are going against the tide here, and we certainly could use a boost of revolutionary activity in favor of peoples right to say no to this bullying by the central gov authorities and corporations.
Hey whatever happened to all that anti bullying business that was sweeping the american consciousness? Why is it ok for cesspool dc to bully the states and their people and their hospitals that take care of them into doing what they want all the time.
Can we please get some people to create an antibullying campaign against the cdc and federal bureacracies for threatening to withold rightfully owed money for services rendered to the people.
Wouldn't that be a good example to our children by stopping the bullies in their tracks with a united punch in the nose to the fascist slave masters.
We need freedom from this developing fascism.As long as the hospitals need that medicare money they will do whatever they are told to do and your rights don't matter much it seems.
A personal and philosophical Declaration of independence from government dependence is needed for all people and the hospitals and other corporations also if this country is to thrive and not just survive..
Godbless and godspeed

Opresso De Liber
Life,Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness!
Conscious of Our Creator and Source of our Liberties.

However, I do

feel that companies have a right to discriminate, for it is their own company. They do not force anyone to work there, people choose to. But that does not give them the right to force and coercion, which this obviously is.

“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” – Dresden James

Quit your job. If I was a

Quit your job. If I was a patient in a hospital, I'd very much prefer those treating me were vaccinated against smallpox, thank you :) As well as other communicable diseases. Many hospital patients have compromised immune systems, leading to them being more at risk of contracting diseases than the general population. As a hospital operator, you really ought to do what you can to minimize the risk of exposing these guys to viruses.

It's a bit like bloodbanks not wanting to to "employ" the services of donors who refuse an HIV test.


it would be like a bloodbank not wanting to employ the services of donors who refused to get small amounts of HIV injected into their bodies... if you want to compare apples to apples.

The issue is; people who have

The issue is; people who have had a flu vaccine, are less likely to have the flu than people without the vaccine. They are also less likely to pick up the flu from one patient, and transmitting it to another, since their immune system is primed to fight the flu viruses it comes into contact with.

Both of which makes vaccinated employees "better" in that respect than non vaccinated ones.

The hospital is simply trying to limit it's immune deficient patients' exposure to flu viruses. Just like bloodbanks are when asking donors to prove they are at low risk for carrying HIV. Both of which strikes me as rather appropriate.

SteveMT's picture

"flu vaccines are 60% effective!" Not great, not even good.

A new scientific study published in The Lancet reveals that influenza vaccines only prevent influenza in 1.5 out of every 100 adults who are injected with the flu vaccine. Yet, predictably, this report is being touted by the quack science community, the vaccine-pushing CDC and the scientifically-inept mainstream media as proof that "flu vaccines are 60% effective!"

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/033998_influenza_vaccines_effecti...


in a hospital setting the visitors and patients greatly outnumber hospital staff. Many of which will not even have received the shots reducing the overall effectiveness even more. To the point of insignificance.

~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

I'd like to see the stats on that

especially for nurses who are exposed to all kinds of viruses everyday on the job. Isn't their exposure from their job like a natural "vaccine"? Why isn't that good enough?

Flu Vaccines are

a pseudo science. There are many different strains of Flu and Flu vaccines only cover one. My mother gets her flu shot every year, and every year she gets the flu. Her 2nd Husband has never had a flu shot, and I have never seen him with a flu the whole 20 years I have known him.

“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” – Dresden James


The shot usually covers more than one strain, but since they never know which one will be circulating, its guess work, there is no guarantee.

It's also less than 50 percent effective in the elderly, that study has been done. How old are you? Why accept the risk of side effects for a shot that is proven ineffective?

I know one thing. I got one flu shot and contracted GBS. Good lick if they ever tried to force me.

Agree to wear a mask during flu season.

I would drop Roe V. Wade

Supreme court decision regarding the ownership of your body.

"right of privacy, whether it be founded in the Fourteenth Amendment's concept of personal liberty and restrictions upon state action, as we feel it is, or, as the district court determined, in the Ninth Amendment's reservation of rights to the people, is broad enough to encompass a woman's decision whether or not to terminate her pregnancy."

if this is the law of the land then I would assume that you have the right to determine whether or not you take medcation


also was this a precondition that you signed before you got your employment? Or is your employer attempting to pressure you into this decision post facto?

If it is part of your contract then you must oblige, if not you have some ground to stand on.

Just remember though your employer can 'redefine' your job requirements at any time and determine that you are no longer needed...

Ask them to show you the state statute

giving them that authority. Since there is none, you can threaten them with a lawsuit.

My mother in law faced something similar, and asked if this was mandatory, to which the worker just got up and left the room. My mother in law gets the flu every time she gets the shot, and her friend got Guillian-Barre a couple of years ago from it.

You really want to start out with a legal standpoint (which has the potential to be expensive for them), because the medical they will not listen to, they are the experts and will not budge from what the experts on high have told them. However, the Candian Disease Control recently did a study showing no benefits from the flu shots.


"The only position I will be

"The only position I will be able to defend is that an employer cannot mandate injection of a medication as a condition of employment"

That is an excellent position to defend from. You'rre better off focusing in on one issue instead of convoluting it.

I assume you have researched the laws of your state or any applicable federal laws? If not you need to do that and know them inside and out.

You also need a full copy of their policy on it. usually there is an out. There may be some exemptions in there that they have not told you about like religious etc. You might be able to claim a religious exemption and they do not need to know what religion you are.

They will most likely argue that it is for patient safety to prevent spreading the virus. You can Ask them where is the evidence Flu vaccines actually prevent Flu since the flu has mutated since the vaccines was rendered.

IMO you would be better off sticking to the fact they cannot mandate medication as a condition of employment especially if there is a law to that effect.

it is an uphill battle and you may get fired over it so you might want to check out some lawyers to be ready see if they will take the case on a contingency basis.

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The "safest" vaccines will induce the disease...

among some member of the population and WHO will become infected is not entirely predictable. Given this accepted medical fact, every individual has the right to choose what level of risk he or she is willing to accept, recognizing the individual right of self defense, which is a tenant of English common law. Also, given that the majority of individuals will accept vaccination, the individual's choice not to be vaccinated does not incur an increased risk to the general population vis a vis any individual choosing to be vaccinated.

Does that work for you?