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What Will Austerity Look Like in the United States?

Establishmentarian Media, particularly of the Neocon variety, suggests that the people of Spain somewhat deserve what is going on because of their dependence on government to begin with. I passed along the video of police beating people in the streets of Madrid to a friend and he responded with

"Obviously I don't agree with cops giving people beat downs in the streets....buuuuuut. My guess is these people are all protesting austerity measures so they've already willfully given up their liberty to the state."

It is much more complicated than this, and I would like to get your thoughts on the "Oh well the Spanish people should of saw it coming" position. Obviously Austerity is coming to America (and we have gotten some "glimpses" of it already)I would be interested in getting the DP communities thoughts as to what austerity will look like in the United States and in what ways will Americans themselves be culpable? I guess this could be "A put ourselves in the shoes of the average citizen in Spain" type of exercise? Thank You.




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Part of the reason the

Part of the reason the spanish govt is so far in debt is because they bailed out the big banks that went bust when the real estate bubble broke. The spanish people should not have to pay the bill to bail out the big banks and that is why they are protesting. The US govt didn't get my permission to bail out the banks over here so why would I be responsible if the govt goes bankrupt because of it. I don't think the spanish people are to blame either unless they are big bankers or government leaders who did the bailouts.

A Libertarian Spaniard history lesson from Prof. De Soto.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jBx09...!

"We’ve moved beyond the Mises textbook. We’re running in the open market." - Erik Voorhees

Middleberry, Indiana if we are a clever as We think we are.

Of, course if we were as clever as we thought we were each of us wouldn't have allowed Congress to put us in debt to the tune of 24 ounces of Gold.

Creditors and Debtor Agents and Debt Holders.

The Creditors finance the election of Debtor's Agents (Congress) by the Debt Holders. According to the 14th Amendment that is.

If Congress defaults for us or puts us in a position where default is inevitable, Congress will will blame us and the repo man will come.

Free includes debt-free!

I agree with you--

I know very few people who can be separate from the system. I applaud them and wish them well and wish we could have done it.

But unfortunately we spent 40-50 years being 'employed', and as kids we bought into the "have a SS#/card" hoax--

the amount of $ we've put into SS is staggering. We didn't, EVER, want to take it/receive it; we put it off as long as we could--

and then we hit unemployment--

the one of us who had been working pled with the company to take him/her part-time; it was like a bargain--

but it wasn't enough to live--

and the independent work we did is WAY down--

so we ended up having to take SS--

it doesn't feel good/right; it's horrible; after all, we fed ourselves through years of unemployment without food stamps and went without medical care so as not to use government medical assistance of any kind--

but when you are in your 60s and find yourself out of work--

you don't just say "no" to SS when you see the hundreds of thousands of dollars you've put into it--

If I could meet ONE person who would allow a family to go hungry (yes, in our 60s we have dependent children/special needs who aren't on any kind of SS, though they could be, but we chose not to have government intervention there; we wised up in that regard)--

who could look at how much they paid in and not take it out when they didn't have enough--

on principle--

one other person--

but if SS falls . . . then everyone falls, and we'll have enough food and our garden to help people who are willing to treat us right--

if they want to hurt us, well--

we'll leave it up to God to deal with them--

some on DP would think us naive, but I can't kill someone to protect my food; the killing would never end--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

What it looks like?

For sure, we will know what it is and what it will do to freedoms.

NOSHEEPLE

What will Austerity look

What will Austerity look like?
Detroit

Southern Agrarian

There austerity is a scam

The protesters that are screaming "we don't owe so we wont pay" are those who are dependent on government handouts, government jobs or in some way recipients of some government expenditure. The ones getting screwed as usual are the taxpayers. And the whole purpose of the "austerity" measure is to appease the ECB (European Central Bank) so the government can take out more high interest loans to keep the government going and put the nation further in debt.

We ain't seen nothin yet.

More nuanced than that

I don't believe that all the protesters are living from handouts. As it were, I know it for a fact. There's also a significant group who resent the fact that the people are being sacrificed to save the banks, as it is perceived (and accurately so, except it's the gov't saving the banks to save itself).

To put it concisely: "our taxpayer money shouldn't be used for this, it should be used for XXX". Problem is it implies the tax paying itself, and where the taxpayer begins, the individual ends, so to speak.

A struggle between corporatism vs. syndicalism, might be one way to describe it.

tasmlab's picture

"Austerity" as pejorative and a choice

I digress a bit, but the term 'Austerity' seems to be used as way of calling 'cutting spending' as something both 'bad' and a choice that the government makes despite its people, not something good and something it is forced to do.

If the government is just plain broke, why riot or protest against it? You can only protest if you think it can change its mind and start delivering the goods again.

Maybe you can protest to insist that it loots the remaining wealthy in the country (if they don't flee) or insist that it goes and loots another country for its supplies such as Germany needed to do in WWII when its supply chain locked up due to its policies and economics.

Currently consuming: Harry Browne, Free Domain Radio; JT Gatto and Holt; Wii U

1992 Los Angeles Riots

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KTxjQPf9vk

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Garden_Plot

"I, __________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_enlistment

There is no duration defined in the Oath

If every nation is in debt...

If every nation is in debt...

where has all the money?

the bankers have it--

and people like Mitt Romney--

and most of those with $ got it through unethical means--

there may be a few people who have gained wealth through hard work and sound investment--

I believe those people exist, but they are not people like Mitt Romney--

and his managers and his thugs--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

It never existed. The only

It never existed.

The only thing that really determines what a nation is worth is the sum of goods and services that each nation produces. That is typically the GDP. GDP growth in the US has not been beating inflation for a long time. They paint this picture that our GDP is growing but since inflation is increasing more rapidly, our GDP picture is much worse than it appears. It's like measuring wealth but the yardstick keeps being stretched longer. We don't make stuff here anymore, we buy it from other nations. So to answer your question at a level that is more easy to understand...If you go to the store to buy food instead of growing your own food, do you really have to figure out where the money went? Outsourcing will bite these companies in the @ss when they realize that consumer dollars are no longer in this nation.

________________________________________

Austerity will look like

Austerity will look like hyperinflation. Since the USA can issue its own currency, they won't do austerity cuts. They will continue to debase the currency. This will wipe out what's left of the middle class and then a police state will be required to protect the ruling class from the poor angry mob.

Your got it

OV

Just want what seems to be missing, Truth and Justice for ALL
What is fraud except creating “value” from nothing and passing it off as something?

RE: Hyperinflation

I was thinking along the lines of Hyperinflation ='s Austerity in the United States as well. Hyperinflation/Inflation isn't a "direct tax" like the income tax is, and Hyperinflation as an Austerity measure isn't a "direct cut" to a program but inherent to our system here in America. I think some would argue that we are all "living on welfare" as citizens of the Unites States because we transact in dollars which are "subsidized" by the position/status of being the reserve currency of the world and therefore have an artificially/propped up value. A realistic valuation of the dollar in this line of thinking would be similar to slashing a huge welfare program (austerity measure) and perhaps the citizens of Singapore and China will watch the rioting in the streets of America and conclude that we are just whining about a standard of living that we didn't deserve in the first place. I'm sure it is a lot more complicated than that but maybe in the ball park......

Yes, the world reserve

Yes, the world reserve currency status is a critical component of this. Once the US loses that prestige (in the works now), its practically game over. The Federal Reserve Notes held abroad will come flooding back. The question is how long can the US military prop it up?

RE: How Long Propped Up

Good points. Dr. Paul has always said he is amazed that our monetary system has remained in tact for this long, and he seems to have purposely gotten away from predicting the timing of it all, (he used to be more specific about time tables) I am shocked that it is still going...

The people of Spain

were duped and raped by their government, plain and simple. Now that they've seen the results, they are pissed and rightly so. Joining the European Union was and is a great idea. Joining the EuroZone was a huge mistake that seemed like a good idea at the time. Remember, this was an experiment sold to the Spanish people by the Global Central Banking Cartel.

There were prominent Spaniards who vehemently opposed joining the EuroZone and they were ignored.

Not any more.

One day, I'm gonna' change my name to Dale Lee Paul

And sadly, I truly believe

And sadly, I truly believe this is what is going on here. There were entities attempting to "sell" the idea of a North American Union (combining economies of the U.S., Mexico, and Canada) in 2006 (which was to be implemented in 2010 (right on schedule). How would the bankers be able to accomplish blurring country boundaries and set up one economy? Destroy the currency being used. But Americans did NOT like the idea at all in 2006. So what is now going on, forcefully pushing us into another currency I think. But I don't know anymore if it's simply to join the 3 nations. It looks more like a coordinated dollar destruction coinciding with the American election and the fall of the Euro. The bankers would love for a single world currency of some kind (or at least a single currency over more countries). They'd steal even MORE from average people through interest manipulation and inflation (the hidden tax). Unlike the Eurozone, Americans didn't see it as a good idea at all. I wanted to think it was a conspiracy theory but little by little, I'd see clues that it was not. Bush's joining of NORTHCOM (military working with Canada and Mexico). Obama's actions to allow illegal aliens to continue flooding into the country and not securing the border. Gov. Rick Perry's attempt to use eminent domain to confiscate thousands of acres to build a "super highway" between Mexico and Canada (six football field lengths wide). Huckabee's attempt to sell himself in the 2008 election with a highway project stretching up and down the entire east coast. And then former Mexican president Vincente Fox spoke at Wayne State University in Detroit and railed on reporters when they questioned him about combining the economies. He basically said it was what we needed. If it ever were to happen, it would make our Constitution null and void. I truly believe what is happening is far more nefarious than I could possibly have imagined.

I honestly dont know much about austerity

I always thought that once the dollar collapsed, america essentially would HAVE to declare bankruptcy, default and have debts cleaned off the slate. I dont know if we would have much of a government left to push austerity measures, I imagine people storrming the capital and eating the politicions alive.

In a nutshell..

ugly. Very ugly.

Beware Governments bearing gifts

The only information we have to base an opinion on about Spain is through the MSM. Which we should question every time. The bailout of big banks is surly a sore spot just as it is here. Why shouldn’t the government bailout the people and let the banks fin for themselves is one sentiment. Few ever ask “where does the money come from?” It is a hard human nature lesson to lean to have self control and reject gifts, especially government gifts. There is not such thing as something for nothing. If you accept a gift from government you must accept the contract that comes with it, serfdom and obedience. The people agreed to these terms just as anyone accepting government gifts here.

There is...

Alot of truth in your freind's statement. It is difficult to just say "they made their bed..." though. There are many reasons for the problem. Some of us have been fighting for decades to get government under control but it is impossible when the mob rules, no matter what their intentions. This is why adherence to The Constitution is so important. The people are right that they do not owe that money. Spain needs to declare bankrupcy and move on. Every invester that buys bonds does so with the known risk of default, that is the name of the game. Folks should have stopped buying their bonds when they looked at their books. Their debt service costs are too high and to not declare bankrupcy is yet another bailout to bondholders.

As far as what it will be like here...Some cops will beat people down because it is Tuesday so don't expect things to be good. The fact that we can print is different in that the spark will be when government assistance checks are almost completely used for food due to inflation, and prices show no sign of leveling. Stop using FRNs whenever possible.

I guess I'm not alone

Heading for the Hills

Going where the sheriff is an Oathkeeper and there are springs everywhere and lots of space. Does that make me a potential "terrorist"? Oh, yeah already was one for joining Daily Paul.

skippy

not good

California

I'm reading aguirre's book Surviving the Economic Collapse and it seems pretty close to what's happening in CA already...crime, poverty, infrastructure, etc. it is quite interesting I recommend it.

Infrastructure of Justice

In California, one profound manifestation of "austerity" is in the justice system, especially when the state and federal courts are contrasted.

In San Diego, where I practice law, the state court houses are bursting at the seams with cases, while at the same time drastic - and I mean drastic - budget shortfalls are causing dozens of departments to close, court staff to be cut, and justice to be substantially delayed.

At the same time, literally right across the street, the Feds are building a new, hugantic, state of the art court complex. Hundreds of millions of dollars are going into this project. And did they need this new courthouse? NO! The Feds have a very nice, modern courthouse just one block away! Many of the rooms in the existing Fed court house are not even being used.

And while a state court judge would kick an attorney's ass if that attorney wanted an all-day trial for a $5000 case (indeed, you would almost certainly be relegated to small claims court), the Fed judges have no problem at all opening their courtroom for an entire day for such a small case.

So, austerity in this respect will be an austerity of justice in the state courts.

I Have Noticed

That they have done away with all the old cozy warm feeling libraries that were crammed with books and built these new fancy HUGE buildings that have practically NO books at all. Same with schools. Seems like a scam to me. Sorry if this is off topic but just replying to your comment about the court.

skippy

Construction

To keep that topic, I note a similarity with the universities. Despite all the outrage about tuition hikes and money shortages, University of California, San Diego (using my alma mater as an example) *always* has major construction of new buildings going on. Always. For decades.