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Person Debt question-advice needed!

I need some advice. We are weighing some options in our life and were wondering what the opinion is of the DP family. We are debt free but tied to the "world". Like, public water, 2 acres, public sewerage, ordinances, heating bills, etc...We have been offered a fully functioning farm to purchase (including all equipment and accounts). More "freedom from bills"--well, septic, farm ordinances, 15 acres etc...However, it is a serious, serious debt. After being debt free for nearly 10 years, and how the economy looks....Should we just take our chances being tied to the the public system or should we take a leap of faith. Debt scares my hubby & me, but so does someone else controlling our water, heating, etc...Anyone out there have any advice? Is this really the time to stretch out and go into debt. Oh and my hubby is self employed and that is sliding downhill quickly (NO work for winter) So this would not only be a huge debt, continuing to live off savings, and trying out a completely new lifestyle/career. Postives, food production, cheap labor (we have 9 children), and we could rent our house to make part of the mortgage payment. Oh, one major downer--The house is in not so good condition (like 1957 condition). Ok enough, please share your wisdom. Thanks,

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Debt is not good BUT

people are going to be flocking to the farms in the near future when the economic collapse happens. Only those with the ability to live a self-sustaining lifestyle and produce their own food will be in good shape. Just another perspective to think about...

Our family's journey from the Rocket City to the Redoubt: www.suburbiatosimplicity.com

Stay debt free

It is the only way to truly be free. Proverbs 22:7. The biggest way you can be tied to the system is to be in debt to the system.

Unfortunately, to many Americans think they are smarter than God. They think if you borrow to buy your house, borrow to buy your car, borrow for one's education, charge that vacation and this years Christmas somehow they are free and winning. Not in the least. They are slaves to the lender i.e. the banks.

What's in your wallet?

Farmland looks to be in a

Farmland looks to be in a bubble. IMO

House prices are might have a little further to go.

We did it starting in 1985 when the economy was growing. When it crashed in 2000. I wouldn't try it now. We were just lucky.

I believe that going into debt limits liberty more than the inconveniences you listed.

I used to cry, "Thy banks will only loan me money if I have money."

No more, I find a way to use money to make money or save money. If I can borrow extra then its only because I have a contract that will cover the note and loan fees and a little left over to make it worthwhile.

Fishy Culture is right, innovate. Create assets that will help your family meet it's goals. It might include a farmhouse or fish tanks.

Free includes debt-free!

Thanks guys,

Once again true advice from good people. I think that it is best to stay where we owe no one. Besides, my hubby is scared and nervous about business drying up. Praise God for savings accounts. At the same time, cracking into them for everyday living is breathtaking. Seems that lately, breathing is very hard. I realize people all over are in equally bad situations, some waaaaay harder. I guess when it hits home it is the worst. We have cut our lifestyles back very far, way farther than most of society. Nonetheless, no work, higher prices and no, I mean no "safety net" is hard. My hubby keeps saying that we need to "batten down the hatches" and just lock down. Hard to do with a large family. I don't mean to sound like boohoo. It's just this: I have seen my hubby angry, depressed, confused and sad. BUT- I have never seen him so helpless and hopeless. It scares me.

I feel for your situation

We're not far off from that same scenario. Your husband is feeling despair because of the role men play in society. Since the caveman days our role has been the hunter/gatherer. If we can't bring in the food, we feel inadequate. If he knows that it is his paycheck that puts the chicken on the table, when that paycheck isn't there, he is going to feel like he isn't measuring up to his role in the marriage and society.

Finances also put a big strain on marriage. In fact, it can be a downright marriage-killer. Things get tight and next thing you know, you are having arguments about small purchases. From that, you spend a lot of time being angry with each other. If it continues on long enough, it can overwhelm. Know this so that you guys can avoid such strains.

Find a way to live simpler. Do you need the things you have? Even that farm is about making money for things you might not really need.


Math is math.

Figure out what your payment would be, then figure out what kind of modifications you could make to your existing property on that budget, and remain debt-free. I suspect you will find it MUCH cheaper to innovate.
And truly, do you want to sign a contract with someone that you know is a lying, cheating, usurous entity with total control over the court system?
Oh, and look at other options. WAY too much of a mortgage price is for the house, and if you are not buying one "move in ready" you have to add the cost of repairs and renovations. I would not go into debt over land, you have a home and this farm only marginally does - what you seem to want is the land so don't buy a clunker house. Look at bare land nearby, look into paying cash for a small bit of acreage where you can run some chickens and goats or whatever you are into.

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

Use your computer and google

how to create your own power, composting etc. 2 acres with no debt is worth a million times more than 15 acres with debt.... especially at this time, when much of the world is facing (or living) economic melt down.
On 2 acres you can be pretty self sufficient, and would be better off putting money into good rain water storage and alternative energy.
It is all out there, you just need to go searching for it.
Go well.

Debt is ALWAYS a bad idea, it

Debt is ALWAYS a bad idea, it makes you a slave. The best thing you can do is sell your current house...buy some land and BUILD, this is how people used to do it and its still effective. It is slower...but you own it free and clear. Lets be realistic...a few acres is enough land to grow enough food to support a few prople...and its a heck of a lot easier to farm than a huge farm with hundreds of acres...I have done a bit of farming...trust me. The other advantage of building is you can build it the way you want from the start..well, septic, solar, wind turbine.water turbine...whatever.

My dad built a house 1953.

My sister built a house in 1984. My brother built a house in 1997. I wonder what they think about building today.

Today there are 20 million empty homes on the market. For those hoarding silver and gold, there will be great deals.

Farming is hard work. That's why I avoided it. But my dad has an orchard and nut farm and a place for everything that grows useful fruits on two acres. He has harvest bushels of Carpathian Walnuts, Chestnuts, mulberries, filberts, pears, paw paws, figs, northern kiwis, prune plums, apples, cherries at one time or another.

It was a great place to grow up. But I don't seem to have inherited the skill.

Free includes debt-free!

Relative to the likely

Relative to the likely inflation that is ahead for us, this debt will be small. I'm sure you've heard of those people that bought a house for $5,000 several decades ago, well, in the future this would be the same thing. The downside to debt, though, is your ability to repay. Even a small debt can be foreclosed. I wouldn't suggest taking on any debt that you know you will have an inability to pay on in the future. Then again, being dependent on the city for water, being subjected to their ordinances, etc., is not a winning situation either.

Is there a third option? Do you have enough net worth to liquidate your current assets and buy some land free & clear with the well & septic or to put your own in? That's what I'm doing right now. I'm sizing up a piece of property in northern Nevada that I plan to put well & septic & solar on and a travel trailer to start.


I heard something about farmers

I once read that farmers encouraged destroying the gold standard precisely because it would make paying off their debts easier. So in an inflationary world, maybe a steady amount of debt to pay each month may be better than steadily increasing food and water prices and such. I have always heard been taught that getting a home is one of the few things worth getting into debt for (the other two being schooling and a vehicle). However, I never feel comfortable recommending going into debt, especially since I don't know what lays in your future (like if banks go psycho and demand full or increased payments and such).

I would probably go for it, especially if it allows you to otherwise be self-sufficient.

"Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice." -- Thomas Paine