2 votes

Need assistance with a response

I need help formulating an answer. My brain is just overloaded. Sometimes, it is too damn hard to get people to understand without a significant amount of evidence at hand. We here at the DP can agree that our fellow americans have been led astray, some more than others, by their schooling, and the media propaganda, but it would be foolishly offensive to call them that, and think it will lead to a civil engagement of ideas. I believe patience in explaining will eventually pay off. What we're experiencing when we try to talk the truth is what Yuri Bezmenov would call a completed process of demoralization. When they finally "wake-up" to the reality of the situation, it is quite a shocking experience to get over, and takes many months to come to terms with, but until then, cognitive dissonance has a firm grasp.

The following conversation is from FB. I apologize in advance for the big blocks of text. It's a copy/paste job. The topic was created by my little sister on her FB page. I'm mainly concerned with responding to my Uncle who comes in at the end.

*Names are withheld and replaced for privacy*

Little Sister: "You think if we all on our ballots just wrote in Ron Paul's name it would count. I mean if the majority of us did it, wouldn't they have to take that into consideration?"

Me: "Some states will count write in votes, some will not. Unfortunately, New York is one of those states that will not be counting them this year. Many hundreds of thousands of people from all across the nation will be writing in Ron Pauls name. He was my first choice too, but Gary Johnson of the Libertarian party will be getting my vote this time 'round. The GOP dun goofed!"

Aunt 1: "There is little doubt that the presidential election is between Obama and Romney. Sending your votes towards someone that really does not have a chance to win will mean that Obama will most likely win. Is having Obama another 4 years worth the point you would like to make? Think about it. The presidential election is not won by the popular vote. It is won by the electoral college. Please, please, please find out how the election is counted and rethink your vote before Obama wins again."

Stranger: "If it did count...it would be HILLARY for me girl !!!!"

Me: "Hi Auntie 1, if enough people wasted their vote on the Libertarian party candidate this time 'round, then it wouldn't be a wasted vote, he would actually win! Besides, voting your conscience is never a wasted vote. Among the things that I consider to be most important concerning politics, I hold that breaking the back of this two party system to be one of the most important. Step back, and take a long view of the situation. Four more years of Barrack Obama with a Republican controlled Congress countering him, and an even greater constitutionally-minded populace scrutinizing his every move, or a potential eight of Mitt Romney with that same Congress at his back, and those same aforementioned people looking the other way? I proclaim that more damage can be done under Mitt Romney than under Barrack Obama. At least with a second Obama term we would have an opportunity in 2016 to elect a true constitutionally-minded candidate to office. In any case, here's what we can expect from either of the two puppets: more centralization of power, a further loss of civil liberties, a growing police state, a growing surviellance state, a massive depreciation in the value of the dollar, usurpation of sovereignty to the United Nations, more war, more foreign interventions, ballooning budgetary deficits, the economic quagmire to continue, more crony capitalism(fascism), and etc. etc., and other equally important issues too numerous to list. I implore everyone to turn off their propanganda spewing glowbox, and go in search of the truth. FOX, MSNBC, and CNN are not your friends. This country has been hijacked, and it's not just the Democrats who've done it. The evidence is overwhelming, and it isn't a recent development. The strategy has been to divide, and conquer. Have you read the Declaration of Independence recently? We would do well to revisit history, for it is only through knowing where we've been that we can determine where we're going. The largest hurdle to overcome is apathy. I can give anyone the resources they'll need to help them better understand the reality of the situtaion, all you have to do is ask. If you do decide to "take the red pill" be prepared to do quite a bit of studying. Oh yes, I almost forgot to mention the electoral college, and since you brought it up I may as well touch on it. I understand how our president is ultimately chosen, and it was intended to be a safeguard against a general public that could be manipulated through manufactured opinion. It is important to note that the word democracy does not appear even once in the Constitution, or the Declaration of Independence, and that is simply because we have a Republic. It is a fact that the founders absolutely hated true democracies, or what would otherwise be called mob rule, and that is because the rights of the individual are supposed to be protected against the tyranny of the majority. I've been studying plenty of history over the last few years. Btw, I don't necessarily think you need a history lesson Aunt 1, so this is not really intended for you, but for anyone who doesn't know, or may not understand. The electoral college, and the Republican form of government, in general, only works if it is not corrupted. Unfortunately for us, we have total system failure, and I blame that on lack of education, and a fourth estate that's been corrupted into not doing its proper job. Fortunately for us we have the internet."

Aunt 2: "In other words, our individual opinions or wants mean nothing! I wanted Hillary also!!"

Me: "Sorry to tell you Auntie, but Hitlery is a CFR globalist through and through."

Aunt 2: "Sorry dear Nephew. I agree with *stranger*. MY opinion has not changed,She was still the better democratic candiidate last election- I think she would have made a great ALL around president for the GREAT USA!"

Aunt 3: "*Me* for President!!! lol"

Aunt 2: "Go get em *Me*!!"

Me: "I'm going to attend my local commttee precinct meetings, and where it goes from there is anyone's guess... ?"

Aunt 2: "Good luck to you."

Aunt 1: "The history lesson is good but the election is in a few weeks. Unfortunately, the election is between two people no matter what we would like it to be. The reality is that in spite of how you feel, you need to pick one-Romney or Obama because one of them will win and if you vote for someone else because you feel that change is needed, your pick between the two may be the loser. Education of the election process and wishful thinking does not erase the fact that the president will be either Obama or Romney. You get hung up on theories and wishful thinking to really see what is in front of you. This process is corrupt and unfair and all the deep thinking will not change that this election is between Obama and Romney so people need to pick a side."

Me: "I'll be voting for neither of the two. Anyone else is entitled to do as they wish. I do appreciate the fact that you are concerned for the future of your country, and are speaking out in an attempt to change it for the better. Our goal is the same, we just have differing theories pertaining to the solution. I reject the notion that if I don't vote for Romney that I'm voting for the eventual winner Obama. My vote is what it is, FOR something, not against someone. I could easily turn the table, and say that since i'm not voting for Obama, it's kinda like I'm voting for Romney. Same difference. You know the old saying, "the lesser of two evils is still evil"."

Aunt 1: "You are sooooo right but there is also another saying- "you can't see the forest for the trees". This system is more than ridiculous, but it is what we are stuck with - like it or not. Life is full of picking between two evils. You just need to decide which evil will be more in line with how you live."

Uncle 1: "I am a business person and I run a business. I create jobs and yes - I did it myself. If the US government was a household, you would be making 50K a year, spending 75K and adding 25K to the already 2.5 million in debt as you sign for a 19 million mortgage. Think about the numbers. To say Obama and Romney are the same is ridiculous. One believes that goverment is the answer and the other thinks that the private sector is the answer. The US government is the largest business and the president has never run a business. His opponent has never been anything but a success in the business world. There are many problems in this world and I agree with everything that you listed. The focus for this election should be on the number one issue - JOBS. We need more people working and paying taxes and less people collecting off the taxpayers. The choice is clear to me and it is not what we have now - we need change. I respect your beliefs but to write in Ron Paul or Gary Johnson only makes the possibility of four more years of the same. Big changes will start with a change in presidents. There is only one possibility for president that is not Obama. A vote for anything other than Romney will mean four more years of the same."

Me: "Hi Uncle 1, I understand your sentiments. I wish I had more time to respond to them right now. I will address these issues soon enough. Aunt 1 will let you know when I respond. It may take several days since I'll be busy with work. Of course, I'll need adequate time to formulate a response too. I've always thought that the written form of communication is much more effective to properly articulate beliefs. Of recent, Its been my wish to see debates, for any office, not in oral form, but in written form. Imagine how much more insight we'd gain from a potential candidate. It would take all the superficiality out of the equation. It would require actual substance to participate. In any case, I look forward to it. We need not come to the same conclusion, but at least we'll hopefully educate some people in the process."

Uncle 1: "You can't change it all, keep it simple, make one change in november then two changes next time and so on. Remember when you talk to me you are preaching to the choir."

???How would you respond to my Uncle???

I'll be back in a little bit to see what kinds of things ya'll come up with. I'm figuring that this sort of thing would be, at the very least, somewhat interesting for some of you.

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The Strategy Of WINNING

Removing California's 55 Electoral Votes, which is 10% of the TOTAL Electoral College's votes, form Obama's tally, would have a tremendous effect on the National Election and National Debate.

If any of the participants in you FB conversation knows ANY California voters, then have them contact those California voters and have them cast a Write-in vote for Ron Paul. Anti-Obama Voters in any state can benefit from a Ron Paul Write-in victory in California.

Copy / Paste any or all of this, if you think it will help.

There is a great desire to achieve success in this election. Defining “success” is the divisive issue. It must understood clearly that no matter how important a personal agenda is, it is still necessary to be elevated above the crowd, to express it.

California is in a Political “Perfect Storm”. By combining forces behind the Write-in Ron Paul effort, ALL factions can WIN.

NOW is the time to look at the STRATEGY of CONSOLIDATING the vote.

Bards Logic Political Talk (11/1) – Special Guest – California Write-in Ron Paul Activist, John Finnegan

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/bards-logic-political-talk/2012...

IN CALIFORNIA, we have the opportunity to WIN 55 Electoral votes NOT JUST MAKE A STATEMENT, but ONLY, if WE ALL get behind the Name recognition, the broad spectrum of support and the message of Ron Paul. Get this out to your Republican friends.

[The Strategy]

https://s3.amazonaws.com/write-in-ron-paul-2012-california/T...

15 - DAY REPORT OF REGISTRATION
October 22, 2012, for the November 6, 2012, General Election
Democrats = 43.7%
Republican = 29.4%
No Party Preference = 20.9%
Other = 6.0%

The Republican Party in California is contracting. Those who registered Republican, in order to vote for Ron Paul in the Primary, are jumping ship. [60-Day= number of days out from the General Election]

As of October 22, 2012 reckoning, NO POLITICAL PARTY BREAKS 30%...EXCEPT THE DEMOCRATS.

60 - Day Report of Registration = 30.1%

15 - Day Report of Registration = 29.4%

To BREAK this voting monopoly, WE MUST stand together.

SO GOES CALIFORNIA’S 55 ELECTORAL VOTES; SO GOES THE NATIONAL ELECTION AND POLITICAL DEBATE.

WE MUST Write-In Ron Paul, for ALL to benefit, not just in California but also, the rest of the Nation. That’s the message that’s got to get out to California’s Republican voters.

If you see value in what I’ve written, please ‘share’ it with your California Republican friends. This NEEDS to get DONE.

[The Strategy]

https://s3.amazonaws.com/write-in-ron-paul-2012-california/T...

California is ours for the taking.

http://www.dailypaul.com/261603/california-is-ours-for-the-t...

I stood before the man and felt his breath on my face. In his eyes I saw …. A warrior.

I gave up

When someone actually said that they would rather vote for HITLER than a third party.

In the words of ever infinitely wise cartoon character Bender...

We're boned.

ShotgunCHENEY is that you?

ShotgunCHENEY is that you?

With the Hitler, and Bender references that would be my best guess.

I just linked him to this

I just linked him to this thread. Of course, he'll need time to read it. I'm hoping he doesn't get offended. I would love to have him onboard with us. He would make a great asset to the liberty movement.

One by one, the dominos fall.

Use stuff from here too

You could always take a few points from this article that shows how Romney and Obama are essentially the same candidate: http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/40-points-that-pro...

Hope all goes well! Keep us updated.

Thanks for the reply, and the

Thanks for the reply, and the useful link.

The update will come in whatever form it comes in. I'm going to link him to this thread, so perhaps he'll end up joining the DP. That is my hope. Maybe he'll be like the rest of us here, refreshing the page non-stop.

This was just posted to FB.

This was just posted to FB. Doug Wead was Ron Paul's campaign advisor. He has quite an impressive resume.

http://dougwead.wordpress.com/2012/10/18/how-mitt-romney-che...

Again, just the tip of the iceberg. You want more... we have tons of material that chronicles this years GOP nomination process. Romney is a fraud. I watched it all unfold with my very own eyes.

It's tough

"The US government is the largest business and the president has never run a business. "

First of all, the federal government is not a business. It raises revenue by sending around men with guns and badges, and spends this money on products/services that are either unprofitable or outright destructive. He is asking for a "businessman" to come in to the whitehouse and run this criminal enterprise more efficiently. Libertarians don't, and republicans shouldn't, want the concentration camp run more efficiently. They should strive to minimize it.

He mentioned the sorry state of America's finances, but has he looked at Mitt's plan? First of all, no one has, second, with what details he's released so far, I've seen a study that showed his plan would actually add more to the debt than Obama! If all he cares about is the budget, maybe he should think about voting for Obama? Also, how does
Mitt plan on addressing the $200 Trillion in unfounded liabilities currently faced by the US? What about the fact that in about 6 or 7 years, the interest alone on our national dept will exceed $1 trillion a year? In the face of all this, Mitt has promised to expand the Navy. The US has more aircraft carriers than the rest of the world put together, but by all means lets fire big bird so we can build more of them.

Every reason he has for voting for Romney is based on a false assumption. Is Romney a little better than Obama? Maybe. Is that good enough? Not even close.

Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito

Good reply Henry. Thanks

Good reply Henry. Thanks you.

In addition, I thought this was amusing:
http://www.romneytaxplan.com/

Ron Paul had a very detailed plan that would have restored america back to financial sanity, it just worked out that it wasn't good for the fascist corporatists, so he was black-balled by their media.

Some people cannot be 'saved'...

...like your Aunts. Your uncle, perhaps. Have him look at the following sites regarding campaign contributions:
First, Barry in 2008: http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cid=N00009638
Now Mittens in 2012: http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/contrib.php?id=N00000286

They need to understand that there are 2 parties: We the People vs. the Scoundrels in DC. They also need to realize that Barry or any other President doesn't actually do anything....they don't run the nation. The President is mearly a car salesman...think about it - they read a script, written by somebody else, in an effort to sell you on an idea or agenda. Why do you think they installed Reagan the actor? Oh, and just in case your FB people think the "debates" mean anything, watch this video...amazingly, it's from NPR!!!:
http://youtu.be/tXZNFTVzD_w
They oughta LOVE that last one!! LOL

------------------
BC
Silence isn't always golden....sometimes it's yellow.

"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." - Patrick Henry

Thanks bcfast.I think seeing

Thanks bcfast.

I think seeing who the major campaign contributors are is usually pretty eye-opening for most people.

The simple matter of fact is that Romney is the bankers puppet.
Oh, and Uncle ...you ain't seen nothin' yet!!!
Still just the tip of the iceberg.

The truth is that those who vote for Obama, or Romney, are wasting their vote, and the fabric of this once great expirement tears just a little bit more.

Cyril's picture

I repeat :

I repeat :

the "WHAT" DO NOT mean A N Y T H I N G ANY LONGER,

when the "WHY" IS BEING SPIT UPON, MOCKED, ARGUED, TEARED DOWN, THOROUGHLY DEMOLISHED, DAY AFTER DAY :

RESTORE THE CONSTITUTION : this is the WHY America EVEN EXISTS.

and END THE FED, the very fuel of the killing machine ( = corruption ) that destroys the WHY.

Then, the WHAT will be recovered, FOR ALL :

LIBERTY, PROSPERITY, PEACE.

Anything else is ... POINTLESS.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

I think the following video is appropriate

There is so much information on this subject, and it is pivotal to understanding eveything else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr7nL2xIZqI
Make sure to stay until the end of the video!!!

You want to permanently fix the economy, have justice, and start bringing jobs back into this country, then you have to deal with the issue of the FED. Anyone not addressing this issue, is complicit.

Cyril's picture

I don't mean any offense.

I don't mean any offense. Your uncle may be a self reliant and brave at work person, but politically speaking, he seems to have lived under a rock for decades.

Both candidates are for the same thing :

crony capitalism, central planning, federal power. All in all, just a disguised form of socialism.

It's useless nitpicking too much, though. Call it socialism or whatever, it's not so much the WHAT as it is for the WHY :

Jobs should be the priority ? What for in a rigged system, when THAT is the candidates' conception of "private sector" :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearson_Education#Partnerships

You might as well say : public EDUCATION should be priority ! Right ? Yes, to brainwash future generations of all the good of WELFARE and STATUS QUO of today's society, definitely.

...and after that, some will STILL dare blaming the free markets and/or capitalism (long ago DENIED) of "not working" ... when THAT ABOVE, INSTEAD, IS EXACTLY what they force upon us WHICH FAILS, making the poor poorer and more dependent on welfare, and the riches richest ... because, in their spreadsheets of CRONIES, they can't plan nor predict everything, they are not God. Their bubbles or scandals always burst eventually (Cf. the housing bubble of 2007)

Rigging and STEALING from the sweat of tax payers and redistributing to whoever is dumb enough to reelect them is ALL they care about. Meanwhile, their assets, TANGIBLE in lands, bricks, walls, and gold, are secured, my friend. Don't worry for them.

CRONY CAPITALISM only works to some extent for the THIEVES and CROOKS, who cannot PRODUCE, nor INVENT, and who HATE competition. Isn't the Pearson example above ... SPEAKING ? Or do I need to make A DRAWING ?

Really :

The WHAT doesn't matter anymore when the WHY has been :

B E T R A Y E D.

It is not jobs America needs. It is not education. It is not green energies. It is not more justice. It is not less injustice against non violent marijuana users. Or, rather ... it is ALL OF IT, with BRING THE TROOPS HOME, and stop THE DAMN WARS OF SHAME !

To your uncle :

America needs HER WHY back : WHY = THE CONSTITUTION.

P E R I O D.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

It is correct to say that the

It is correct to say that the Republicans establishment, and the Democratic establihment are not two seperate parties, but instead they are two wings of the same party, and they work in conjunction with one another.

It is also appropriate to say that the Libertarian Party is much closer to the original Democratic-Republican Party of Thomas Jefferson, and the Current Democratic, and Republican Parties are much closer inline with the Federalist Party of Alexander Hamilton.

Federalist Party = centralization of power, and a central bank.

Democratic-Republican Party = upholding state sovereignty(at the time), and Honest money.

It is quite Ironic how things have shaken down through the ages...

Thank you Lysian.

Thank you Lysian.

We have plenty of comments, but...

can some of you give him a more direct response. I am considering just posting a link to this thread for him to read.

I would agree with your uncle

I realize many here have no fait or hope in Ron Paul Republicans and why the decides to not join us, the ones who actually and were virtually hurt by the RNC and Romney, but it's not about them or Ron Paul.. it's about the message of Restoring the Republic and Obama is not going to go there, but Romney may have to fight his own party because many want to Restore cojnstitutional government protecting our Bill of Rights, not more executive prders.

I respect your opinion,

but reject adopting your line of thought as my own. Actually, upon further examination, I don't know what it is exactly that you were trying to say. And no, I wasn't the one who down-voted you.

I was...

;-)

Wha? .....hey....who stole my country?

I was

and I wish I had more downvotes to give. If we keep voting for neocons then we are going to keep getting neocons. If we keep voting for big government and foreign intervention and wars, this is what we are going to get. It isn't that hard to figure out.

Look at how Romney has governed. He is the creator of Obamacare. He didn't shrink government, he grew it. He didn't increase people's liberty, he stole more of it and you think we should vote for him?

Free and Brave
or Cradle to Grave
You can't have both

I agree with your uncle

Since the USA is a corporation, it should be done by someone who is successful with mega corproations.

I think the fact Ron Paul Republicans are part of the GOP is another reason to vote Romney. We are still in the GOP.

Ultimately, you have to do what is right for you..

Your point is more clear now,

but it is not what my Uncle is using as his justification. Splitting hairs, yes I know, but a difference is a difference. However, both of your end results would be the same.

I STILL think we could help our fellow Ron Paul republicans MORE by not voting for Romney. There will be a bigger backlash against Obama in both 2014, and 2016. More of our like-minded will be voted into office at that time. This scenario is in direct opposition to if Romney gets voted into office, and the opposite backlash occurs. I'm delaying immediate "gratificattion" for a future windfall. I'm Planning ahead.

In any case, I would like to point out that the Government is not a business. The Government, in its current form, is a complete monopoly on the power of redistribution. You have read Bastiat's "The Law" have you not? You know, when Ron Paul says we should rethink the proper role of government...

I just upvoted your post to get you out of the red. Noone should be stifled from voicing their opinion.

Down voting doesn't

stifle anyone's speech or opinion. You have no right nor should you have an expectation of people agreeing with what you say or with not expressing their disagreement, voting is simply an easy way of doing that.

Free and Brave
or Cradle to Grave
You can't have both

Point taken.

Point taken.

That's why we need to get it

I think the blowback is going to happen in the GOP because we didn't leave. Some left, those who never joined are telling us so.. but they were never inside, so what do they KNOW? Only what they read or saw on YouTube.

We want to Restore the Republic, because it has lost it's way going to government protecting us, not our rights. So I hope we can change that. Your Uncle doesn't think if that, I know. I agree with his logic.. in the world of MSM, he makes the case for Romney said around breakfast counters everyday.

I was a delegate to the Texas State Convention

It is what I saw in the GOP and my fellow delegates that made me realize that sticking with the GOP was a bad idea. Their is no hope there, there is only the possibility of becoming what you despise, to follow an "the ends justify the means" line of reasoning that will only lead you to rationalize immoral actions.

Free and Brave
or Cradle to Grave
You can't have both

I was an alt from Nacogdoches

I was an alt from Nacogdoches county in CD-1, how about you?

Southern Agrarian

rationalize this

I took an oath for a two year committment. By breaking either, it doesn't look good, or feel good because that's not what kind of candidate I would want, someone who breaks oaths and committments.

breaks oaths and committments...

You mean like Romney?