185 votes

Open Thread: Free & Equal Third Party Debate

Vote for who you think won at FreeAndEqual.org.

Thank you to everyone who tuned in.

http://youtu.be/5EcaX12h46k (Thanks Maeve for the link)

Video & Book:

  • Grand Illusion: The Myth of Voter Choice in a Two-Party Tyranny - Including a letter of support by Ron Paul

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    Hey, thats me!:)

    We have a hurricane bearing down on DC Tuesday, what do you think of us moving it to November 5th. the night before election day? The satellite feed is the big concern, even if it doesn't do property damage, heavy cloud cover and satellite feeds don't mix well!

    Support Liberty Media! http://benswann.com/ - http://www.bluerepublican.org/ - http://krisannehall.com/ - http://lionsofliberty.com/

    We won't turn things around until we 1st change the media - donate to a liberty media creator today!

    I just found this myself

    Congratulations Gary and Jill.

    Loved it!

    Here's how I would rate who won:

    1) Johnson
    2) Anderson
    3) Stein
    4) Goode

    How cool is Virgil's old-school accent? At one point thought he was going to pull out a silver derringer and shoot Rocky Anderson for his same-sex marriage views!

    Great debate. Kind of funny to see such disparate opinions discussing the same issues. Johnson was awesome. Have had my doubts about him before as a political performer, but not now. He's a powerhouse!!

    Similarly Virgil Goode, though he looked good on paper, and I admire him in some ways and his straight-forward approach, don't think he has a sophisticated enough understanding of the concept of Liberty really to advance its cause.

    It's all in for Johnson this year.

    Obedience to God is resistance to tyrants.

    My take on the debate

    Excellent, sum up for the candidates,

    Jill Stein, Great idea's, who is going to pay for it?

    Rocky Anderson, some good idea's ,but not interested in his gov regulations.

    Virgil Goode, talks a decent game but is pro big gov, obamney drug war police state!!goode sounded good until he spoke of the drug war. makes me wish chuck baldwin was running again, the constitution party saddens me.. I voted chuck baldwin, goode is not chuck baldwin i am sad to say.

    Gary Johnson, great ideas and is more inline with ron paul and the us constitution. The true small gov conservative with a solid record to prove it, unless folks think gov drug war is small gov.

    Any of these votes are far better then obamney.

    What i saw in this debate is a new coalition forming involving the anti-war movement/pro defense/pro us constitution,fiscal conservatism, anti drug war(anti-big gov police state) and people with sensible drug policies and education. There will have to be a serious discussion on spending on education instead of bombing countries illegally and arresting americans and putting them in jail over a failed drug war and sending billions to dictators thanks to obamney 2012 police state.

    If the republican party and the ron paul republicans and ron paul supporters in general and libertarians,greens,dems,justice,constitution party etc can not put serious talks about investing in some type of education for the masses(in some type of reasonable form, and countering this obama/romney 2012 police/military state. Then i predict a stalemate as the establishment continues it's obama/romney 2012 police state!!

    once a coalition between the left on education,drug policy reform and the right on illegal wars(big gov and a failed drug war(big gov),education happens. Then the gop has only 2 options change or become the whigs!

    I still see a new party being formed through this coalition if we cannot fix the gop. Would it be called the Liberty party? possibly made up of ron paul dems,ron paul republicans,ron paul indy's,greens,justice,lp,constitution party and any other coalitions willing to join this new platform of a NEW PARTY "LIBERTY". NEVER SAY NEVER if the gop doesn't straighten up it's act very soon. the best possible outcome for the lying,cheating and stealing rnc,gop est and romney camp is to have romney lose and a majority of republicans dumb enough to endorse this criminal to lose. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePIImGMjn_8

    If this coalition does not happen soon or if the gop is not reclaimed soon. Then i predict a stalemate as the obamney 2012 police state destroys our constitution and country.

    there must be some type of compromise on education or a new system being offered without so much fed oversight by the left and right. education over bombs and if that cannot be achieved? Then that might be the sticking point and how the obamney folks hold onto this corrupt establishment. I clearly see the left and right already agree on the failed military/police state, minus one in the debate.

    I would like to hear gary johnson and jill stein debate this next time and focus on these issues, education and military/police state and find common ground. This is the key to move the liberty movement moving forward and expose the corrupt establishment.

    I will be voting Gary Johnson 2012 over Obamney!

    Ron Paul 2016

    ytc's picture

    WE can become emissaries to form that New Coalition. . .

    Ron Paul & Dennis Kucinich on the TOP and all of us as active building & binding agents for this NewCoalition for "anti-war movement/pro defense/pro us constitution,fiscal conservatism, anti drug war(anti-big gov police state) and people with sensible drug policies and education".

    (Almost) free education is already starting at Mises.org, Tom Woods' Liberty Classroom & other institutions. (For example: http://www.openculture.com/freeonlinecourses)

    Old time original TeaPartiers and young&furious Occupy! people can join us and find their voices articulated in this NewCoalition.


    and again, I say, AMEN! And now that the sectarian strategy has failed... http://usamultipartycoaltion.blogspot.com/2012/12/trans-part...

    No argument from me:)

    No argument from me:)

    Ron Paul 2016

    Help spread freedom!

    And help keep this momentum going!

    Please email and call your local media TV and radio and the national MSM and ask them to broadcast the next debate!


    I use mondo times as an easy way to find the media outlets and their contact info.


    I'm freaking out excited about the 30th!!!

    Support Liberty Media! http://benswann.com/ - http://www.bluerepublican.org/ - http://krisannehall.com/ - http://lionsofliberty.com/

    We won't turn things around until we 1st change the media - donate to a liberty media creator today!

    VP's debate?

    I'm assuming Free and Equal will not be hosting a VP candidates forum? What are the chances of convincing Free and Equal to include the 2 VP candidates in the debate on the 30th? Maybe a ticket vs ticket debate? Or a 30 minute head to head debate after the 2 Presidential candidates are finished?


    Fancy Shmancy Fine Print:

    I really enjoyed the debate!! Glad they had it!

    I liked what everyone had to say. I liked Rocky too in the Justice Party. Anyway, I wasn't going to vote for Gary because of his social stances, but we all know he isn't going to be president. So on that thought the goal here amongst us is to BREAK THE TWO PARTY SYSTEM RIGHT???

    And that's what we all need to stick together to do, JUST THAT!!! Like Gary or not, we have a job to do right?? Either try to break the two party system?? Or not??? If it's Romney or Obama, the globalists have chosen right? They are going to rigg in who they want right? So we should still try to impact it with standing behind Gary, I WISH IT WAS PAUL HERE IN THE THRID PARTY, but it's not, so we stick behind Gary and BREAK THE TWO PARTY SYSTEM!!! Any comments on it?

    That Seems To Be The Best Way to Look At It

    If everyone concentrated on the goal of breaking the one-party monopoly rather than trying to find a Ron Paul clone or some other ideological match, we would have a more solid and effective group.

    Many people on this blog would rather be shot than vote for the Socialist Energy Party. But, if the Energy Party could break the one-party monopoly, they would open the door for people like Ron Paul and others who want a less aggressive society.

    Perhaps a "break the monopoly" third party - that has no other platform and brings together all ideologies - would be a good strategy?

    Gene Louis
    Supporting a Needed Tool for Government Feedback:
    A Citizen-Operated Legal System.

    Drug Question

    Imo the drug issue and question is important on the basis of principle ie. right to one's body, and for many which I understand. Yet I cannot comprehend why so much attention is given to this one issue judging by the replies and posts?

    RP mentions the drug issue naturally, yet it is not his highest priority. ie. he does not come out immediately swinging for this issue in his speaking tours.

    I think things have to be put in perspective, there is mass unemployment, high taxes, currency challenges, monetary policy, trade imbalances, massive deficits and debts, wars, education, health care, inflation, global instablility, philosophy of governance, etc., and somehow drugs seem to be near or atop the forefront for the consideration of electing a President?

    I do not think concentrating and focusing on the questions of drugs are going to solve or remedy many of these ills. ie. alcohol legalization sure has not alleviated many of the mentioned troubles.

    Abortion should even carry more weight than the drug question I think...it is life or death after all.

    In 2008, I do not think the drug question carried as much weight as it does now as I recall.

    It was definitely more about the philosophy of governance/public administration imo.


    The Drug War has been one of the major wars that has

    bankrupted this Country and led frightened people to look the other way while Civil Liberties were undermined so that alleged bad guys could be put behind bars. It is the mentality of a War on Drugs that sets the tone for all the other wars and the mindset of frightened people to embrace things like the NDAA, the Patriot Act, and the TSA. Unconscious people often have a knee-jerk statist reaction on this issue which must be brought front and center. All the other issues you mentioned are interlocked with this one and we should not underestimate how the War on Drugs is a major culprit that raises taxes, distorts and destroys the economy, has to be paid for by money printed out of thin air, contributes to the health care problem, and creates a giant Prisoner-of-Drug-War (POW) Population that makes what should be the freest country in the world the Country that holds the greatest percentage of its citizens in prisons. The war on Alcohol established the Power of Organized Crime and the Drug War sustains it. The War on Drugs must be ended immediately as part of a comprehensive program to reestablish the Principle of Liberty in this country.

    Shouldn't the 2 winners

    be posted by now?

    PS. Loved the debate. Gotta admit, Gary Johnson made a strong case. I liked him.

    Yes. Voting is closed, but they have not yet posted the results


    How I Know Gary Johnson Reads the Daily Paul

    Gary's "Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb" made me smile:


    RichardTaylorAPP - Chair - American Patriot Party.CC

    John Locke #201, 202, 212 to 232; Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions 1798; Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788; Rights of the Colonists 1772.

    Not sure how you know? I missed somthing?

    Maybe I'm tired and didn't get how you know Gary reads the daily Paul?

    If you're unsure of how to vote: 1. Virgil, 2. Gary, 3 and 4

    can either be Jill and Rocky or Rocky and Jill. Voting ends sometime on 10/24.

    For some reason, we're expected to know every law that exists in America & in our state so we don't break it. We're supposed to know this when we're 18. There's no litmus test for them, as in the 10 commandments or rhyme or reason. C.U.R.E.

    Did You Know The Constitution Has A Term Limit Feature NOW?

    Here is James Madison defining this LIMITING FACTOR in the Ratifying Conventions, which defines the meaning of the words in the Constitution:

    Virginia Constitution Ratifying Convention June 14, 1788:

    James Madison:

    "... The Constitution has taken a medium between the two extremes, and perhaps with more wisdom than either the British or the state governments, with respect to their "ELIGIBILITY" to office.

    They can "FILL" "NO" new "offices" created by themselves, >>> "NOR" "OLD ONES" of which they >>>"INCREASED THE SALARIES"."

    After having heard a variety of principles developed, I thought that on which it is established the least exceptionable, and it appears to me "sufficiently well guarded".


    As predicted by Patrick Henry - Apparently not guarded enough;

    They simply stepped outside the "delegated" powers of the "Original Compact" which they have NO AUTHORITY to do.

    See Virginia ratifying Convention 6-16-1788 in FULL:


    6-14-1788 Continued:

    Mr. GRAYSON:

    "Mr. Chairman, I acknowledge that the honorable gentleman has "REPRESENTED THE CLAUSE RIGHTLY" as to their exclusion from new offices;"


    This establishes James Madison's intent was correct and that "NEW OFFICES" also means, by the definitions given here "NOR Filling Old Ones", as reelection to the same office for a "NEW TERM" of Office for which the salaries were increased by the person seeking reelection to it.

    Would this not keep LEGISLATORS from being reelected "back" into their office...if they had >>> RAISED THEIR SALARIES IN THE PREVIOUS TERM???

    Clearly it would.

    If the Constitution was obeyed, it would remove almost all present legislators from office tomorrow.


    Also see link to Rights of the Colonists:


    that establish that: "...Governors"(all government employees) have "NO RIGHT" to "SEEK WHAT THEY PLEASE" " in salaries, as it makes way for them to become "TYRANTS and DESPOTS", instead of "SERVANTS of society".

    Today's Representatives and government Unions "seek what they please".

    A good reason also to Keep and run government as a SERVITUDE and NOT a Business! and localize all salaries to no greater than the average in a particular county by the peoples consent; As well as limiting their employment term to 4 years.

    American Patriot Party.CC

    RichardTaylorAPP - Chair - American Patriot Party.CC

    John Locke #201, 202, 212 to 232; Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions 1798; Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788; Rights of the Colonists 1772.

    I am 22 years old

    and I am oddly attracted to Jill Stein. LOL

    too bad she thinks we should have publicly funded colleges.

    too liberal for me

    shes cute though. and thats feels weird to say.

    jill stein is good people.

    jill stein is good people. She will be a great ally in the liberty movement. Education over bombing countries illegally and funding a mic(military industrial complex). I have to say i like that angle! better to educate then bomb and kill people. She agrees with much of our platform. no one is perfect.

    I hope gary and jill won the voting for the next debate!

    Ron Paul 2016


    how you blend. Check out my newest OP today's date.

    Oddly I felt the same way...

    Oddly I felt the same way... Educated woman are appealing.

    Agree that it was a turn off though when she said college should be essentially free.(nothings free)

    i agree with you but i do

    i agree with you but i do find spending money on education at the state level with less fed involvement a good thing. We have to find some common ground on this education issue. the left agrees with us on civil liberties and the us constitution and ending this failed drug war and military industrial complex.

    It might be best to find some common ground on the education issue and form a working coalition. In reality i would perfer our tax payer money be spent on education at the state level over building peace drones to kill people and fund illegal wars and corrupt tyrannical governments. Education over Bombs! not a bad line now to get jill and gary and ron and others together to find some common ground on education. we are pretty close on all other issues already especially on foreign policy,illegal wars, failed drug war and civil liberties.

    just my 2 cents

    Ron Paul 2016

    How about this?

    In her book,"The Two Income Trap," Elizabeth Warren advocates public school vouchers.

    She needs to die her hair and put some lipstick on or something

    She has a nice face, just needs to die hair and put lipstick on or something. The gray hair makes her look old.

    ... she is old.

    ... she is old.

    I disagree with Goode

    and Rocky and Jill, but I respect them.

    Rocky and Jill are pretty liberal. And Virgil is a character, and dont like his marijuana policies, but I like his conviction about the debt.

    Gary has my vote out of the four, of course.

    Note to the teacher

    My daughters homework assignment (8th grade) is called “Comparing the Candidates” and instructs “Circle the candidate whose position you most agree with. See which candidate you gave the most circles to, and who you would vote for.”
    The choices are only Candidate A or Candidate B (Obama and Romney).

    I would like to write a note to the teacher, any suggestions?
    I'm thinking something like,

    “What about Candidate C, D, and E. We don't need another generation of voters who only think there are two parties. I am voting for Gary Johnson of the Libertarian party and although ignored by the media, the schools should be teaching that there are more than two choices.”

    Please put a suggestion on how this should be written, or let me know if you think its good as it is (I don't think I'm a very good writer), and others can also use it for notes to their kids' teachers also.