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Open Thread: Free & Equal Third Party Debate

Vote for who you think won at FreeAndEqual.org.

Thank you to everyone who tuned in.

http://youtu.be/5EcaX12h46k (Thanks Maeve for the link)

Video & Book:

  • Grand Illusion: The Myth of Voter Choice in a Two-Party Tyranny - Including a letter of support by Ron Paul
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    Then He's Contradicting Himself

    Gary Johnson DID say it was a Federal issue. He said he would make a "constitutional guarantee" in favour of Sodomite "marriage." A he said, "Instead of insisting on equality as a U.S. Constitutional guarantee, the President(Obama) has thrown this question back to the states. When the smoke clears, Gay Americans will realize the President’s words have gained them nothing today, and that millions of Americans in most states will continue to be denied true marriage equality.”
    http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/gary-johnson-criticizes-obama...

    "The Yankee is compelled to toil to make the world go around."
    -Admiral Raphael Semmes, CSN
    http://standrewsnews.org

    Apologies, was thinking of his stance on abortion...

    The 14th would cover his stance on marriage just fine.

    Now it's 3 in favour of the

    Now it's 3 in favour of the Fed redefining marriage, and 1 in favour of having the Fed defending it...

    "The Yankee is compelled to toil to make the world go around."
    -Admiral Raphael Semmes, CSN
    http://standrewsnews.org

    Garry Johnson was merely

    Garry Johnson was merely saying that everything is equal under the constitution... So it is the governments business to keep people from keeping other people's liberties down. Example Religious people keeping down gay rights.

    Everyone is equal under the constitution, and should be treated as such.. No benefits and/or exceptions to certain groups.

    Name the passage in the Constitution

    You can't name one example of a "religious person" by being a "religious person" keeps down a gays "rights" - whatever that means apart from normal rights everyone has.

    Sounds fascist to me. Name the passage in the constitution for "gay rights". Forcing people to do something is not what a right means.

    And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

    He isn't for forcing anything...

    You're the one who wants to refuse to give the same rights that heterosexuals do to people of a different orientation. Who's the fascist now?

    Besides, for abortion he's stated it's a state issue, I'm assuming he feels the same for marriage. Although honestly there should be no such thing as a marriage "license".

    Homosexuals are not a

    Homosexuals are not a peoples, or a class, or a race. They have the rights we all enjoy- to marry a person of the opposite gender.

    "The Yankee is compelled to toil to make the world go around."
    -Admiral Raphael Semmes, CSN
    http://standrewsnews.org

    What negative thing will

    What negative thing will happen to you (as in DarthJ) when a human being who is hetero/homo/bi/whatever marries someone of the same sex (I'm not going complicate this simple question with gender)?

    Second question, what negative thing will happen to me when these two moral (moral by societies standards, not by your private religion's standards) people get married.

    Third question, why do you (DarthJ) so want to control other people and their actions? Why do you care what anyone does in the privacy of their own homes, groups of friends, and their churches. How does this control promote the ideals of liberty?

    Authority

    1-2. The natural unit of society is the family. By having two people of the same gender (incapable of bearing children) they are undermining society. They are making "normal" what has been held as deficient. From a rational view the two should not be joined- scientifically they are incapable. Thus "marriage" is reduced to feeling rather than meaning. This will, in time, effect public morality at large. Thus, it may not effect me directly, but my descendents will most assuredly be effected in the future.
    3. Marriage is a holy act. What right have YOU to so decree two persons of the same gender have a right to be married? You yourself said it is a religious act- and many religions are in conflict. Only one side can be correct in asserting the views concerning marriage. Any other way would be in conflict and erroneous.
    Why are Sodomites not content with living in a state that they are already in? Why do *they* desire to take something that is beyond them and rob it of all meaning?

    "The Yankee is compelled to toil to make the world go around."
    -Admiral Raphael Semmes, CSN
    http://standrewsnews.org

    Only one side can be correct

    Only one side can be correct in asserting the views concerning marriage.

    You're looking at this as a black and white issue. It's not. What might be right for you may be an abomination to another and vica versa. All sides can be correct. There should not be any "winner" from this debate, just an outcome that favours liberty and freedom for all.

    How do homosexuals have

    How do homosexuals have "rights"? As homosexuals, they are an orientation, not a race. They have the same rights everyone else has- to marry a person of the opposite gender. Along y'all's line of thought, say I want to marry my poodle. Would y'all grant me a right for that?

    "The Yankee is compelled to toil to make the world go around."
    -Admiral Raphael Semmes, CSN
    http://standrewsnews.org

    A dog?

    A dog is not aware of its decisions. A dog cannot give consent and is not, nor can it become, a citizen. Therefore, a dog cannot agree to enter into a marriage arrangement with anyone.
    Here's a link to explain marriage equality quickly and easily.
    http://nedhardy.com/2011/11/04/had-to-explain-gay-rights-and...

    Marriage is not a free-for-all

    If you undermine that basic block of society- the family (man & woman)- then it's just a small step to extend the abuses even further than they are at that time, as Shakespeare said, in that "insatiable appetite of rebellion." For instance, what of incest? If person is willing and capable, shouldn't inter-family marriages be acceptable? There are limitations to what marriage can be applied to.

    Vatican Council I saw the abandonment of morality and stated that "the consequence is that they strive to destroy rational nature itself, to deny any criterion of what is right and just, and to overthrow the very foundations of human society."

    "The Yankee is compelled to toil to make the world go around."
    -Admiral Raphael Semmes, CSN
    http://standrewsnews.org

    Rebuttal

    Basic block of society - who decides what the basic block of society is, how it is defined, and where did they obtain such authority to do so?
    Insatiable appetite of rebellion - if people were allowed to live their lives as they wish, there would be no need/desire to rebel.
    Incest - less than 100 yrs ago, marrying a cousin was considered perfectly acceptable. I believe it's still ok in the south today (a little humor for ya). Does that mean I think people should marry their brother/sister? It's not right in my eyes, but who am I to tell someone that they cannot? Let he without sin be the one to cast the first stone.
    Not sure exactly what you meant in the last paragraph, but I grant no authority over me to any politician or religious figure. I get my sense of what is right and just from my God alone.

    WOW... you said homosexuals

    WOW... you said homosexuals have the same rights as everybody else, then you turn around and say only to the opposite gender... Why is it only restricted to the opposite gender, I'd say that's a restriction of rights.

    And yes, if you want to marry your poodle you can. We should not force you to do otherwise. Anything less is infringing your ideals onto others.

    I really don't see where the miscommunication is here. Why is there such a controversy on letting gays marry gays? The only thing I can think of, is that it conflicts with someone's religion/cult.

    Cult of the god of liberalism

    Homosexuals-Sodomites- have the same right as every other person (as I stated) to marry a person of the opposite gender. Every issue concerning marriage should be weighed, because, as Pope Leo XIII stated, "domestic society acquires that firmness and solidity so needful to it from the holiness of marriage, one and indissoluble, wherein the rights and duties of husband and wife are controlled with wise justice and equity..."
    Your post shows what your cult is, to the god of "unrestrained freedom." Like you said, homosexuals must "marry" because otherwise that would be a restriction. Whatever you're capable of doing, do it! Morality doesn't matter- just freedom.

    "The Yankee is compelled to toil to make the world go around."
    -Admiral Raphael Semmes, CSN
    http://standrewsnews.org

    I would like to challenge you

    I would like to challenge you on religion... It's sad that people still believe this non-sense and are willing to go to great lengths to put restrictions on other people.

    Religion and "gods" are ideas, no more than the invisible unicorns on the moon... And yes, it is a cult by definition - "A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object."

    Cult=Culture

    If you wish to cast the word "cult" around as an insult, then you're failing. A "cult" is anything a person or persons follow (hence "CULTure"). This is not exclusive only to religions, but "devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing." Anything (such as your unwavering defense of absolute freedom) could be considered a cult.

    As for "gods" being ideas and therefore ridiculous, is your utopian ideal of the world not also an "idea," with much less backing and reason behind it?

    "The Yankee is compelled to toil to make the world go around."
    -Admiral Raphael Semmes, CSN
    http://standrewsnews.org

    I will agree with you on the

    I will agree with you on the "cult" reference, I was referring to the Jim Jones cult as a comparison, but cult can be used with as a broad term. To rephrase my comment on cult, I would like to say that you are blindly following an ideology that is not justified by consistencies in the environment.

    In regards to your second comment, I would like to point out that I didn't say "gods being ideas therefore ridiculous"... you drew that correlation. Ideas are representations of things in our mind. Example, a tree is a representation of the object/objects of trees in the environment... Ideas don't always have to be real either though, a unicorn is an example of something that does not exist in the environment, but we still grasp the idea of a unicorn.

    Your god(any god) is a fictional representation of something just like a unicorn. The only way to determine the difference between a fictional representation and a literal representation in the environment, is through measurable/examinable consistencies tested in the environment.

    Sure, go ahead and marry your

    Sure, go ahead and marry your poodle. In the words of Dr. Paul "just don't enforce your beliefs on me".

    "Where liberty is, there is my country." -Benjamin Franklin

    Now that it's a right I want

    Now that it's a right I want to be married in your Church. And since snuffles has been given those rights, you must address him as "Mr. DarthJ" (and I'm a guy!).

    "The Yankee is compelled to toil to make the world go around."
    -Admiral Raphael Semmes, CSN
    http://standrewsnews.org

    A. I don't have a church.

    A. I don't have a church. B. You don't have a right to other people's property. C. Is this really the issue that keeps you up at night?

    "Where liberty is, there is my country." -Benjamin Franklin

    B. You don't have (nor have

    B. You don't have (nor have ever had) a right to marry a person of the same gender.
    C. No, but from the way you keep writing (and very vehemently) it must keep you awake.

    "The Yankee is compelled to toil to make the world go around."
    -Admiral Raphael Semmes, CSN
    http://standrewsnews.org

    Thanks for moderating Larry.

    And I flip over to CNN and Anderson Cooper is reading Lindsay Lohan quotes to the sheep. But I don't want to be negative as this really was a terrific night, and a win for the American people. I'll be looking forward to the next 2nd party debate. There is going to be another debate, right?

    "Where liberty is, there is my country." -Benjamin Franklin

    Yes, and it will be held in Washington D.C.

    However, I don't recall the date.

    Feel free to reuse any resources/ideas that I post on the DailyPaul on other networking sites.

    It's on Oct 30th

    Go to freeandequal.org and vote for Gary Johnson, or whomever your top candidate is. Only two get in.

    "Where liberty is, there is my country." -Benjamin Franklin

    Drudge Retort prominently posted a link to the debate

    But of course the Drudge Report (AKA the Romney Report) failed to do so.

    With liberty and justice for all...who can afford it.

    So true...

    ...Drudge has been pitching Romney like a crazed carnival barker.

    I hate it when his site goes into the tank for neocon crazies. Drudge should have more sense than that.

    seems to be working now,

    seems to be working now, http://freeandequal.org/vote/ go vote!!

    Ron Paul 2016

    Donated to free and equal. XD

    Donated to free and equal. XD