185 votes

Open Thread: Free & Equal Third Party Debate

Vote for who you think won at FreeAndEqual.org.

Thank you to everyone who tuned in.

http://youtu.be/5EcaX12h46k (Thanks Maeve for the link)

Video & Book:

  • Grand Illusion: The Myth of Voter Choice in a Two-Party Tyranny - Including a letter of support by Ron Paul

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    it was on CSPAN, which is on my basic cable channels

    how was it not televised? the lighting and cameras were not up to par with the two party debates but you expect that with CSPAN.

    A little disappointed

    that the debate was listed as 'Public Affairs Programming' on my channel guide. That was probably Comcast's doing though. Should have been listed as the '2012 Presidential Debate'

    I think it was Cspans doing,

    I think it was Cspans doing, I had the same thing on my guide with time warner.

    Didnt know that

    My mistake. Thanks for the correction.


    Very Impressed

    I was completely blown away by this debate. Four different candidates, three of which I have never heard of, and was completely impressed with almost all of them (was not a fan of virgil goode - though i appreciate his straight-forwardness). It is a real damn shame that no one knows who any of these people are, because any would be a worthy and great alternative to Obama/Romney. While do not necessarily agree about the free education idea, I thought Jill Stein and Rocky were both very impressive and would probably vote for either one of them over the big 2. Now I think i might vote for Gary Johnson. Never considered that before, was always going to write in RP, but I was very impressed with his passion and conviction and ideas, and was very happy that he called Ron Paul his hero.


    What's wrong with Virgil

    What's wrong with Virgil Goode?? I thought that Rocky guy was the least
    appealing only because he didn't wanted to legalize marijuana. He was
    a bit too conservative than the rest up there. I thought Virgil was the

    Um, I think you got your wire crossed

    If I'm not mistaken, Virgil was the only one against legalizing Mary Jane. Virgil is the one with the old school country accent. I like Virgil and his accent but he may be to rigid for the 3rd party crowd.

    But maybe not for a former

    But maybe not for a former straight ticket republican like myself...I think Goode may have my protest vote...I believe he is the only pro-life candidate.


    Although I do not disagree

    Although I do not disagree with the third party candidates, I will still vote for Romney, the reasoning behind my decision is simple, The third party candidates will not win the Presidency because a President is not voted by popular votes, but electoral college votes, which in reality neither of the Third party candidates will have a chance to win this election. I remember when Ross Perot ran, in which this swayed the election by watering down the vote. If the establishment wants to make one candidate win over the other in a close election, it is to add in additional candidates to pull votes from the other. Why else did we see the media use moderators such as Larry King from CNN.

    The other question is why did Ron Paul not run third party in which he could have easily ran, it is because he knew the chance to win and create the change back to the Constiution would never happen. I suggest that everyone should sit back and reaally contemplate how life will be with another 4 years of Obama. I work in the financial industry, and this country will not survive 4 more years of Obama.

    If you think your single vote

    If you think your single vote can determine the election, you are living in fantasy land. If you think your single vote can make a difference if you live in a non-swing state, you live in fantasy land squared. If your single vote can make any shred of diffenence, it will be if it is cast in the service of building up a credible third party.

    You waste your vote

    First of all, in an election with millions of voters your vote does not make any difference whatsoever. In an election with a smaller electorate voting makes a difference. However, in big elections like this the winner is usually the one who is backed by the media.

    Therefore the best course of action is to vote for your true preference. That way the probability that the next election features better (=closer to your preference) major party candidates is slightly raised.

    Voting for evil is a wasted vote because:
    1. it does not make a difference
    2. it does not make your preference visible

    There is no difference between Obama and Romney. Better the devil you know than the one you don't. And maybe Romney will even win, then a war with Iran will be more probable, almost certain (even with Obama war with Iran is not off the table).

    UFOs are real
    4 Hour Witness DVD (radar operators, pilots, scientists, military)
    Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud49Gh9yYLs
    Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpHAxxRKksQ

    I think you meant to say

    "I work in the financial industry, and this country will not survive 4 more years."

    It has little to do with Obama or Romney or GJ or RP. We, as a nation, have dug ourselves a hole too deep to get out of. Time to face the consequences.

    Our family's journey from the Rocket City to the Redoubt: www.suburbiatosimplicity.com

    Our policticians make a major

    Our policticians make a major difference in the economy, What do you think Ron Paul has been fighting for ever since he got elected to the Congress, We need to have our politicians eliminate the Fed, and to come with a sound money policy ( ie Gold Standard for example). We need the politicians to reduce spending and to reduce the size of Government so that we would have a Govern of the people, by the people, the more powerful that the Government gets, the less free we are as people. The way that this would happen is by voting for Liberty Minded Congress people and Senators, we need a President like Ron Paul, but we know that the either Obama and Romney will be the win this election, thus I prefer Romney over Obama, since I know that all that Obama wants is a larger more powerful government, this is what we have seen over the past 4 years with all of the executive orders he instituted. This election is by far the most important one I have voted for over the past 35 years I have voted in.

    At some point

    At some point the damage is too great to be able to fix. This is where we are now. The American voters can't replace their elected officials fast enough with true Liberty candidates (who want drastically smaller government with no debt) to prevent a collapse. There's not enough candidates, not enough open and contested seats, and not enough awake voters for that. Even if the Repubs claim both the House and Senate in the Election and Romney wins we'll continue to rack up more debt and more money printing which will inevitably lead to a complete financial collapse. They also send more troops overseas, continue crony capitalism, expand government, and infringe on more of our rights.

    I will grant you that Ron Paul had by far the greatest chance to improve things as President (that's why I'm writing him in on the ballot in 2 weeks), but he hinted repeatedly that things were going to be painful even under his Presidency. He understands that the coming "correction" is going to be awful and many Americans are going to suffer terribly through it. He wanted to try to temper the pain some by doing things like Ending the Fed, stopping foreign aid, bringing troops home to cut the spending, etc. But there was never any confusion that it was going to be painful nonetheless.

    So, no. I have NO hope that 4 years under Romney will produce any better result than 4 more years under Obama. The damage has already been done and it's too great for any President to repair it. It's too great for any group of Congressmen to repair it. The only path to fixing things is to let it run it's course and prepare the best ways we can to get through it and come out on the other side ready to re-build and start again.

    Our family's journey from the Rocket City to the Redoubt: www.suburbiatosimplicity.com

    Now that's sticking to your principals...NOT

    Maybe you did not watch the video.
    Grand Illusion:
    The Myth of Voter Choice in a Two-Party Tyranny

    IF you believe in and support an establishment two party system, then you are supporting communism by proxy. Plain and simple. Because a two party "democracy" is democracy in it's purist form. Which as we ALL know (or should) that democracy will always lead to communism. ( please view http://youtu.be/-MzxC8Mqupw )
    Or 51% telling the other 49% what it's going to be like.
    Two wolves and a sheep making plans on what's for dinner.
    We were given a republic...IF we can keep it.
    In a republic we are guaranteed individual liberty.
    Now...does Mitt Romney project the image of the kind of person who will repeal the Patriot Act, roll back the FED, make any real cuts in spending, defend your liberty, restore your freedom, or even defend the constitution? Because I don't see anything in this man that even resembles constitution. Particularly when I consider the dirty underhanded fraud he perpetuated during the primary.
    And if you are going to vote for Mitt-Witt just because you want to oust Obama...you do not see the real problem here. You are voting AGAINST someone, rather than voting FOR someone. Now that IS scary.
    And THAT is what I consider as being a wasted vote.
    To replace one known establishment flip-flopping liar with just another establishment known flip-flopping liar doesn't accomplish anything. Think about it.
    So who cares if we get four more years of Obama destroying our liberty, or if we let Mitt do it. Because he most certainly will.



    There is no signficant difference between the policies of Barack Obama and Mitt Romney. If Romney wins, nothing will change for the better. Therefore, your argument about a 3rd party splitting the vote is invalid.

    Video Link

    OP, please update your post with the video link:

    Ron Paul - Intellectual hero

    I enjoyed it !

    Only thing I would have done differently would have been to have two more podiums for Obama and Romney. Just sitting there like the empty chairs they both are.

    Tin Pan

    Now that is one of the best

    Now that is one of the best ideas I've heard in a while!

    Good one Tin Pan...two empty

    Good one Tin Pan...two empty chairs with two empty suits.


    Everybody Here

    Is acting like they still believe our votes count. Don't you get it yet? It is right in your faces. The elections are rigged!!!! Haven't you watched "Hacking Democracy"? Didn't you see how they cheated Ron Paul? What makes you think voting for anyone is going to change things at this point? Oh, I should vote or write in someone to make a point. Sorry but nobody looks at those ballots and "they" don't care about you making a point. They get it, we want real change like Ron Paul would bring about but, THEY DON'T CARE WHAT WE THINK! Voting is a waste of time just like all the hard work the people did to become delegates. We have got to get off this idea that we can vote our way to success. I don't know what to do to try to fix this mess but voting isn't it.


    I Believe You Are Right....

    But only in the presidential elections. I got my mail-in ballot and every name is connected except for the president. I believe there is still a chance to take this country back with senate and congressional elections. Too many people on the Daily Paul are wasting there time with this presidential elections when we can be spending our money and energy on local campaigns.

    We need to get an early start on 2016: Support Rand PAC 2016



    The sooner people realize

    The sooner people realize this the sooner the people will rise up. But that is why we fight on and push the message. That is why Ron Paul was so important in this election. He wasn't going to win...they would never allow it. But he has reached far more people in this election than any third party candidate has and soon enough the people will wake up.

    Defeatist Loser

    First, if the numbers for Ron Paul or similar candidates were much larger, than it would be a lot harder for them to fudge things. We don't have a majority, so its a lot easier for them to do that. Second, if the election was "rigged", why do the two mainstream parties try to keep 3rd party candidates off the ballot? The election is not rigged. The voters in this country are just plain stupid. It takes 10 minutes to vote. Get off your lazy ass and vote for a worthy 3rd party candidate and teach others why they should be doing the same. Voting is the only way for peaceful reform. So sick of this loser mentaltity.

    You may very well be right.

    You may very well be right. What are we doing about it?

    Why not join both the LP and

    Why not join both the LP and the GOP? It's not illegal to be part of two parties. Ron Paul is a lifetime LP member.

    Support Rand, Amash & other liberty candidates? Check out: http://www.LibertyConservatives.com/

    The unborn

    I guess in the interest of getting the best candidate available the murder of innocence must take a back seat. What a choice. Sometimes I just would rather stay home.


    I think a lot of the problem is that so many people have been led to believe that it is a religious issue, when it is not. I'm the most anti-religious person you'd ever know, but I'm more 'pro-life' than anyone I know too.

    People need to put aside any religious biases, and try to look objectively at the issue from a 'liberty' perspective. Women shouldn't have extra rights and babies shouldn't have less. Put yourself in the kid's "shoes". And both parents should assume personal responsibility for their actions and accept the consequences.

    Just look at the last question asked at the vice presidential debate. Like on most issues it was the wrong question. Just the media reinforcing the false religious connection to the issue.

    What's also sad is that I listen to the Jimmy Swaggart radio station (guess I need something to complain about)and they are pressuring people to vote for Romney because he is "pro-life"! How sad. I've written them about his evolving positions on the matter, but they never address it.

    Still, I thought Goode did the best in this debate, and I got the impression he is pro-life, though I didn't agree with him on everything and I know nothing about his stances on other issues that weren't discussed, and I'm not going to vote for him. One of the saddest moments of the debate was people booing Goode when he mentioned cutting Planned Parenthood funding. It didn't seem like much of a liberty loving crowd though,but one that felt entitled just like the actors asking questions at the 'town hall style' debate between Obama and Romney.

    Don't stay home but go and write Ron in if you can in your state. That's what I plan to do.

    Catholics for Goode!

    Virgil Goode 2012! 100% Pro-life! :D
    Yeah, shame about people booing him. I guess they were Jill Stein or Rocky supporters...

    "The Yankee is compelled to toil to make the world go around."
    -Admiral Raphael Semmes, CSN