14 votes

Ron Paul or Gary Johnson? Will the revolution vote for Johnson?

Will it be Gary Johnson or Ron Paul for Americans who are not willing to vote for the lesser of two evils? That is the question after the recent Third Party debate brought out a passionate Libertarian who did a bit more than just turn a few heads; he may have changed a multitude of minds after he mentioned Ron Paul as his hero, among other things. You know, like bringing the troops home and legalizing marijuana, just to name a couple.

Although Johnson is certainly no Ron Paul, he may have become the next best thing in the hearts of grassroots campaigners who filled stadiums around the country each time the Texas representative made an appearance this past year as he campaigned for constitutional government, honest money and personal liberty.

Many in the revolution who chanted "President Paul" and vowed to write in the good doctor are changing their minds and aren't shy about announcing it publicly. Needless to say, some will be marking their ballots...

Read more: http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/13272320-ron-paul-...




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of course it wont

on this emotional bus filled with fools, the only thing is to write in Ron Paul...even tho its not counted.

Still the Revolution surpasses the presidential race. I have higher hopes for Congressional Seats... or maybe I should Write in Ron Paul for my District.

His name is Edward Snowden

What is Capitalism?
http://youtu.be/yNF09pUPypw

A vote for Gary in 2012 should be a vote for Rand or.....

another liberty-minded candidate in 2016 if Romney wins. What chance does Rand or any other liberty-minded candidate have in the Republican Party if Romney wins 2012? Are we going to wait until 2020 for another shot?

Even many who do not support Gary Johnson realize that without another platform to run against a GOP candidate in 2016, you have no chance in 2016.

Libertarians and Ron Paul Republicans need to work together promoting liberty-mined candidates in both parties. Libertarians should register as unaffiliated and vote for liberty-minded Republicans in party primaries.

If they're not nominated, allow them to run as the Libertarian candidate. If they are nominated, Libertarians should vote for them.

We can beat the GOP cheaters at their own game if we work together.

The French and the Americans united to beat the British. Americans could not do it alone. Same thing here.

Help! Anyone know if the Koch brothers backing Gary ?

After watching a netflix movie Koch Brothers. I saw where Rand paul recieved 30k and he did say to raise the social security age. I have been sceptical on Gary since he rode onto Ron Paul's coat tails if you will. I was more skeptical when I saw that fox news snuck him in the Republican Convention and they didn't get Ron paul on air like they did him. I saw that CNN had a part allowing Gary and Jill to speak for five minutes of course Ted Turner owns CNN and we all know he is very powerful as well. These powers seem to decieve us and I just don't want to be decieved anymore. Does anyone have transparancy on where Gary is getting his funding. I am starting to think I will have no choice but to wright in Ron Paul. I have spoken to people in other countries and they had the same two party problem so they voted in the green party and got the same laws as we did on the bigging of the year but they got the carbon tax so they create the problems then they create the solutions. If someone could help me decern this Gary Johnson I would greatly appriciate it. We have to follow the money.

Jana

What realistic chance does GJ have to win?

None, so Gary Johnson's position on issues or affiliations don't matter.

What matters is a platform for a liberty-minded candidate in 2016 if Romney wins.

The Libertarians can provide that platform and will regardless whether we get 5% or not. We'll go get the signatures again to be on every state ballot if we have to, so while helping us as an ally would be nice, it won't stop us.

What will stop all of us is not having a platform to run a liberty-minded candidate with a back-up plan.

Plan A - Ron Paul Republican liberty-minded candidate running as the Republican nominee if Obama wins.

Plan B - Ron Paul Republican liberty-minded candidate running as the Libertarian nominee if Romney wins.

Best of both worlds and the GOP can't do anything to stop it. We can only stop ourselves.

Sure, you should question

Sure, you should question everything. However, I might be one of the few who thinks the Koch brothers aren't "evil"... they are business people promoting their own interests....... JUST LIKE EVERYONE!

Some will vote for Gary

some will not. A great thing about the movement is that is appreciates individual liberty and choice. I don't think Gary is the one to reunite the entire movement, but think having different viewpoints is what makes our movement great...unlike a certain party who had a coronation ceremony this August.

MadThrillz love your comment

Love your thinking, so many are fighting--we should respect each other's decisions.

Ron Paul sends the Right Consensus

A vote for Ron Paul both gives No Consensus to the Status Quo and The CORRECT CONSENSUS for favoring the "Original" Constitutional System of Taxation which is Enumerated BEFORE it is CONSENSUALLY collected.

Constitution - Article 1, Section 9:

No Capitation, or OTHER direct, Tax shall be laid, UNLESS in "Proportion to the Census or ENUMERATION" herein "BEFORE" directed to be taken."

Not a FairTax or Income tax which are both UNENUMERATED (unconstitutional) FLAT PERCENTAGE Tax Systems the Federal Government takes the money first, then decides how THEY will spend it without your consent...

My vote is for Ron Paul so to send the RIGHT Consensus;

Not for Gary Johnson who apparently wants to continue funding a bloated federal government by providing a more invasive form of taxation (FairTax) that will allow the federal government into your states to define what and who is and what and who is not a "business" which is everyone that is involved in ANY business transaction ... i.e. "Everyone".

http://www.pacificwestcom.com/appoppositionissues/Fair_Tax_a...

American Patriot Party.CC
http://www.americanpatriotparty.cc

RichardTaylorAPP - Chair - American Patriot Party.CC

John Locke #201, 202, 212 to 232; Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions 1798; Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788; Rights of the Colonists 1772.

We have it pretty good when

We have it pretty good when we get to choose between RP and Johnson. Or Rand for that matter.

already sent in my ballot for....,

Gary Johnson. The two-party tyranny must be destroyed, and a Ron Paul write in will not do it.

"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." -- James Madison

I'm now at a quandary. I was/is plan to vote for GJ, but now...

that Ron Paul is guaranteed to be counted as a write-in (along with Judge Nap)...and that I am now an LA County Poll Official in my precinct, I am for sure will be one of those counting the ballots, come 9pm closing precinct time.

I will be counting...my vote. A sure fire count at that!!!

And, let me say this again...

No shenanigans under my watch!!!

I will be writing in Ron Paul...

here in California, especially now that he is a certified Presidential write-in on the California General Election Ballot.

I am voting for Gary Johnson its the only choice as

one can't vote for a lessor evil and I have seen it myself in my own party that I am trying to change from within. I am pissed off what they did to delegate process at the National Convention.

I just took a look at Gary Johnson Internet TV ADs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDSUoIVMze8&feature=autoplay&...

While we don't have to agree on everything the thing we need to agree on is that we must be free! I don't see these type of ads by Romney and I don't see him running any type of ads like getting rid of the IRS!

I will be doing an email blitz of these Internet ADS to my contact list and hopefully they will pass it on to others that a third party candidate can win as the people are looking for someone else.

Maybe some internet/marketing person on the DailyPaul can do up a grass roots email that we can broadcast, like the lady from Las Vegas who helped our Ron Paul Grass Roots plan in getting out the vote.

Pro Life and voting for Gary

I am Pro Life and voting for Gary unlike many other pro lifers who raise their pitch forks. However, I am a libertarian and understand that I can only control myself. It is all about individuality... would i like to make a law in my anarchist township after the collapse to ban abortion... yes because its murder.. but i dont get my panties in a wad because i know the first rule, it is that I can only monitor myself. If everyone focuses on bettering themselves then the whole of society will flourish. If there is anything else such as war garbage and other "stuff" dug up on GJ... might i not remind you of the times we spent hours defending ourselves from racist comments about the good Doctas News letters...... Unfortunately it is clearly true living inside the movement as a delegate, grassroots activists and intellectual. That only about 1% know what libertarianism is by any means. I worked across the country with liberals to get Ron Elected in Nevada not Libertarians. If we do not flow our support to the libertarian party, then we will lose any chance of getting free markets, and freedom all the way down to voluntaryism to about 2% of the population some years from now.

http://mises.org/media/author/490/Jacob-H-Huebert here is what i mean by only a small faction actually now what it is... the top video... 'Is there hope for liberty in our lifetime?'

Abortion and the Environment

Abortion and the environment are just two of many issues that trend positive (toward pro-life, pro-stewardship of the earth) when we have a good economy. Miscarriages are up in a bad economy, too. And people can't afford to "buy organic" and all the other things they might do if they had a bright future ahead of them.

There's no question that the U.S. government is the biggest polluter in the world, making large parts of the middle east uninhabitable and causing birth defects, not to mention killing people.

It's very simple. Vote for Gary Johnson to vote for peace and prosperity. The other two are supporting their power base and ability to subjugate people.

What do you think? http://consequeries.com/

I will write in Ron Paul

Gary J is Ron Paul lite...very very lite. have heard him speak for several years and he is a lightweight on some important issues.

But Teachable

Having been a delegate to the LP national convention, and state conventions, he is being "taught" at every Q&A by the delegates and members of the LP. You can bet he's getting an earful at every meeting and while traveling with his new tribe.

You think we libertarians argue principle, here on DP? Times 2 or 3 when Libertarians get together.

Gary Johnson is good raw material with political skills, and when I saw him speak at Berkeley, the crowd grew, without knowing who he was, as passersby started to hear what he was saying.

Just as Ron Paul got many of us to think our ideas through, to understand unintended consequences (think "drug war," or "blowback"), we can get Gary to polish his positions. Besides, there never will be a perfect candidate, anyway, and the president is not God, so it's back to whether he's a better choice than the Goldman Sachs candidates.

What do you think? http://consequeries.com/

I think the only way

to get the vast majority of the Liberty movement behind GJ would be if RP would endorse him. We all know that there is probably no chance of that given Rand. Oh Rand, you pain in the arse you. I am voting GJ cause my state does not allow write ins. Would be nice to see if GJ gets 5% for the Libertarian party.

We need this Election to accomplish something

After these past 16 months, Ron Paul has proven that being a good boy by following the rules and trying to do the right thing within the system will only backfire. The political establishment will not allow dissenting voices that threaten their monopoly of power. PERIOD. They will rewrite the rules at any given point to write you out. Count on it. The establishment media will be sure to do their part as well by lying unanimously to make you look unelectable and promote your opponents as the only viable options. Anyone but you. Puppets only allowed.

So it is with deep regret that we must learn the lesson. We must finally wake up from the dream and face the reality that giving hope to either of the two dictatorial parties or depending on MSM for exposure is both a massive waste of time/resources and detrimental to our cause of changing anything back to the way the founders intended. Surely this is obvious enough as the events that have occurred have spoken for themselves.

It is for this reason that I am voting 3rd party as much as possible. Ron Paul is not even running anymore. We need to make this vote show up on the graphs come November 7th. A vote for Gary Johnson is a vote that will count for something. We know that Goldmann Sachs will buy the White House again either way, but at least if we can get 5% of the vote to one candidate NOT part of either political mafia parties we can show that there is a dissenting voice in our country. And maybe in 2016 or 2020 if we still have a country we can provide all 3rd party candidates with the same level of consideration as the two banker puppet clowns that are inevitably going to be pre-selected and propped up as our only choices.

A vote for Ron Paul may make you feel good, but it does nothing to materially help our cause moving forward. A vote for Gary Johnson will be acknowledged and published as a statistic for all to see and report on. A vote for Ron Paul will be forgotten. I'm sorry, but this is life right now as we know it. If this message offends you, I will ask: How can you so adamantly support a man who tells the truth like Ron Paul on so many major issues when you can even tell the truth to yourself?

Voting Ron Paul = Reminding yourself in secret who you prefer
Voting Gary Johnson = Making a statement to the establishment

DON'T WASTE YOUR VOTE BEING SENTIMENTAL. WE ARE LOSING OUR REPUBLIC.

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." ~Thomas Jefferson

Take a look at what you wrote...

you all have the same talking points. Do you not think the people on this site have seen these same arguments in every thread on the DP? I doubt these posts are offending people, but they are insulting to some.

Let's take a look at this one:

The political establishment will not allow dissenting voices that threaten their monopoly of power. PERIOD. They will rewrite the rules at any given point to write you out. Count on it. The establishment media will be sure to do their part as well by lying unanimously to make you look unelectable and promote your opponents as the only viable options. Anyone but you. Puppets only allowed.

So you argue that rules can be arbitrarily rewritten, and curiously use it to support your point:

A vote for Gary Johnson is a vote that will count for something. We know that Goldmann Sachs will buy the White House again either way, but at least if we can get 5% of the vote to one candidate NOT part of either political mafia parties we can show that there is a dissenting voice in our country. And maybe in 2016 or 2020 if we still have a country we can provide all 3rd party candidates with the same level of consideration as the two banker puppet clowns that are inevitably going to be pre-selected and propped up as our only choices.

Suppose gary gets 5% of the vote. After what you have just posted, are you willing to now contradict yourself and say that those other rules can be rewriteen, but not this one?

Moving on:

A vote for Ron Paul may make you feel good, but it does nothing to materially help our cause moving forward. A vote for Gary Johnson will be acknowledged and published as a statistic for all to see and report on. A vote for Ron Paul will be forgotten.

You assume that having (or not having) the vote counted is a dealbreaker for those who want to write Ron Paul. I can tell you, this is not the case for those who have already arrived at their decision.

I can also assure you that your target audience here knows that Ron Paul is not running, GJ is, and he is on the ballot in 48 states. This place is like the low-hanging fruit, but has been picked clean for at least a month now, and it may be time to get the ladder. People who are wrtiing in RP have their own reasons for doing so- namely because they wish to give their consent to be governed by the person whom they want to be President.

The reason 3rd-parties are not serious competition is because they are trying to go to a 3-party system without first establishing a 2-party system. Personally, I'd like to see a 0-party system.

Vote for the candidate you want to be President, or leave that line blank. Posting on an internet forum is not campaigning. If you support your candidate so much that you wish to spread the word, hit the streets and do it the old-fashioned way.

And finally:

I'm sorry, but this is life right now as we know it.

Life is what you make of it.

Take a look at how you fail to think straight

Suppose gary gets 5% of the vote. After what you have just posted, are you willing to now contradict yourself and say that those other rules can be rewriteen, but not this one?

Gopper, you speak out of ignorance. Yes, like the person after you said, the RNC cannot rewrite rules for the Libertarian party, and besides, the nomination process is over. Next argument?

I can also assure you that your target audience here knows that Ron Paul is not running, GJ is, and he is on the ballot in 48 states. This place is like the low-hanging fruit, but has been picked clean for at least a month now, and it may be time to get the ladder.

No, Gary Johnson is on the ballot in all 50 states. Ron Paul is not on the ballot anywhere. As for your fancy fruit analogy, it sucked. If GJ is a fruit hanging low, then surely there must be as many low-hanging fruits as there are ballots to elect GJ. You can only vote once each, right? So sorry, but your attempt at looking brilliant backfired and now look like a dumb ass.

People who are wrtiing in RP have their own reasons for doing so- namely because they wish to give their consent to be governed by the person whom they want to be President.

THAT IS MY WHOLE POINT. WHAT A RIDICULOUS REASON! We already know Paul will never be president and Johnson won't win at least this time either. So this vote once again, like I said before, HAS TO COUNT FOR SOMETHING. It is frustrating dealing with know-it-all obstinate people like you who walk around with their heads in the clouds. WAKE UP! A vote for Johnson will dilute the two-party dictatorship. That's kind of the point, dingus!

The reason 3rd-parties are not serious competition is because they are trying to go to a 3-party system without first establishing a 2-party system. Personally, I'd like to see a 0-party system.

3rd parties is a plural word, Einstein. That basically refers to ALL parties not in the 2-party dictatorship. So no, we're not trying to make this a 3-party system. We're trying to create more and more options until parties lose their significance. Once again, your obstinate ignorance clouds your thinking as you criticize me for coming up with the solution that you wanted to begin with, but did not understand. I'm starting to believe my message went clear above your head.

Life is what you make of it.

Right, and we made it so that Ron Paul is no longer in the running and Gary Johnson is. So get your head out of your ass and come back to reality.

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." ~Thomas Jefferson

OK

It appears you do not fully understand what I was trying to say, and a lot of that was my fault, because I wrote it very early in the morning. I don't see where you guys are getting that the LP rules have anything to do with getting national recognition in future elections. Particularly, if they hit the magic 5% number. They won't get in the debates without the CPD agreeing to it, and the people who run the CPD are members of our one major party- and you should know by now how they feel about the LP.

Ballot access is determined by state and federal laws, which are put into law by state and federal legislators, who are overwhelmingly composed of members of our one major party. They are not going to willingly allow competing interests.

I would like to see a 2012 General Election ballot, or even just a statement by their respective SoS's from Oklahoma and Michigan that gary will be on their ballot as a candidate for President for the 2012 GE on Nov. 6th. I expect you will spend a bit of time looking for this, then probably not write much else about it.

"3rd-party" is commonly used as a catch-all for lesser-known organizations- there was even a "3rd-party debate" that featured candidates from four (4) different parties. But as Ron Paul mentioned in a recent interview (he was quoting someone else), we really need a second party before we can think about a 3rd party.

LOL Gary is not the low-hanging fruits- I was referring to members on this board- ones you don't have to work as hard at to get, because they are most of the way there already. If you guys really insist on "campaigning," let's see you take your 2 arguments over to redstate or huffington post. But i suspect you'd rather try to convince a few over here to go do it for you. This is really the main problem some on this board have with the garys on here making all these posts.

That, and failure to respect that there are some who will vote for candidates rather then political parties.

I don't have a problem with people who are voting for GJ, people who are writing RP, or even leaving that line blank. I don't even have a problem with people who are voting for robamney; some of them will come around eventually, some will never. The "reality" is that there are only 2 numbers that matter- those who vote for robamney and those who don't.

The re-written rules were within the Republican Party....

Republicans can't re-write the rules for the Libertarian Party. If that happens, I think even more Republicans will be turned off by the GOP and abandon the party for a third-party.

Absolutely right!

What's the plan for 2016 if Romney wins 2012?

Would the C4L crowd consider using the Libertarian Party to run a liberty-minded candidate in 2016?

Are you willing to wait until 2020 to run another liberty-minded candidate under the Republican Party?

If you aren't willing to wait or don't mind using the Libertarian Party to run another liberty-minded candidate, would you be willing to help the Libertarian Party reach 5% so they won't have to go through the costly and time-consuming process of collecting the required signatures to be on every state ballot?

Do Ron Paul Republicans even want to strategize with Libertarians to put a liberty-minded president in the White House?

Would you rather Libertarians not support liberty-minded Republicans in party primaries?

If Romney wins, we are all f*ck*ed

there is no plan B. take over the Democrat party??? I wish . . Yes, as a consolation prize we should grab control of the Libertarian party, remove all of the beltway Libertarian Ron Paul haters . . Unfortunately, the Libertarian party will most likely remain irrelevant, I wish that wasn't the case.

If Obama wins, we are all f*ck*d.

And in case you didn't notice, the democratic party doesn't get taken over, it takes over other parties. Why do you think the GOP is full of Neocons? You are not going to turn democrats to libertarians either but there is a very good chance that the libertarian party will become the next liberal party. And just like all the Republicans who vote for smaller government but just get more liberal big government policy the Libertarian party will suffer the same fate.

I'm not so sure that we can't reach an agreement.....

with both sides willing to compromise. In politics, if you're not willing to compromise, you get nothing.

Given that we are both liberty minded on so many issues, if we strategize to take votes from the GOP while promoting a liberty-minded candidate, the GOP will have no choice but to change or allow Democrats to win the presidency election after election.

Trust me, once they see their power waning, they'll be talking about auditing the Fed, balanced budgets, ending wars, etc.

"with both sides willing to compromise. In politics,

, if you're not willing to compromise, you get nothing."

Ron Paul - Working with Coalitions in Congress
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U7Dy7z1jvo

Ron Paul was speaking of the GOP and Democrats....

that compromise to spend more money. I'm speaking of Libertarians and Ron Paul Republicans compromising on minor differences to bring forth Liberty and less government spending.

This is the challenge, to get Ron Paul Republicans to understand that we're (libertarians) on the same team.

This notion that some Republicans discovered liberty through Ron Paul and own the patent is self-defeating. What principles of Liberty do you champion that Libertarians never did?

Ron Paul Republicans are seeing the light that we've been shining for decades. The only reason you refused it in the past is due to media distortion that Libertarians are a bunch of pot-smoking pacifist hippies that only want to legalize drugs.

It took Ron Paul switching parties to get you to listen. He was a Libertarian first and his message hasn't changed.