30 votes

Concerning the old saying, "If you don't vote, don't complain."

Thoughts?

For me, I can not bring myself to vote for Obama, Romney, Johnson, Stein, Goode, or Anderson, and I unfortunately don't have the option in my state to Write-In Ron Paul.

My first choice was of course going to be to vote for Ron Paul. When he didn't get the nomination, it was going to be a Write-In for Ron Paul. When I realized that he was not going to be on my ballot, I decided to 'Abstain' my vote for POTUS, and just vote for my other local elections.

But like I asked above; Thoughts?

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

I guess what it comes down to is conviction for me.

If you are old enough to have already voted in at least one general election, we all have been there I'm sure in this type of scenario.

We know full well who we're going to vote for when it comes to president, governor, senate, & congress. However, when it comes to the offices of lesser known people like state auditors, state attorneys, judges, etc., most people know little to nothing about them, but vote partisanship or vote for somebody, because they feel the need to vote for somebody. Guilty!

However, what has changed for me in voting is working to research records, policies/ideas, & their stances on the Constitution. I want to see constitutional principles going forward, and know that I can vote or not vote based on my personal convictions.

One of the things that I can still appreciate about some friends of mine that yes... love them some Obama or Romney, is when they can at least tell me what convicts them to vote for them. It's not much, and it's usually just partisanship, but I bring up the question of:
"What policy of theirs do you like most?" Most of them don't know. They are usually 'Single-issue' voters, but they have at least been convicted of the one thing that is going to make them vote for or against something. The important thing for me with them now, is to start changing the discussion, and start challenging them more on policy. I need that just as much as they do.

I truly believe that the "Young People" that Ron Paul has attracted are starting to help change the discussion with the 40-60 year old folks. Not so much change their minds yet, but change the discussion on what to really be looking at. No longer just voting partisanship, but looking closer at policies to influence their decisions.

These have been some great responses.

I thank you all for chiming in on this. I asked for thoughts, and we've gotten several pros & cons about voting.

The response that I think I really appreciated most was this one.

-----

1st amendment rights are not conditional on whether one votes.

Submitted by Jiminy Cricket on Mon, 10/29/2012 - 09:48. Permalink

If I'm affected, I have a right to complain.

Given the election fraud and rigging, I'd prefer not to enable and prop the illusion. But that certainly does not mean I have no right to complain about the situation.

Quite the contrary. People should be trying to expose the fraud, whether they vote or not.

-----

If you are in wa state, please vote for Michael Baumgartner

Michael Baumgartner, republican candidate for the US Senate, wants us to get out of Afghanistan.

He is the most underrated liberty candidate. Please give him support.

I always vote. If only to

I always vote. If only to vote no on all the bond issues.

Even though all the radio ads tell me that tax payers won't pay a dime, i just have a hard time beliving that that FRNs grow on trees.

Maybe I'm just crazy.

vote up

I agree

By participating in elections

By participating in elections you are giving consent to be governed by such system. When you vote you know full well that if your guy does not win that you will be ruled by the other guy. By participation in this system you consent to being ruled by the winner, NOT the one of your choosing, but you consent to being ruled over by the MAJORITY choice.

If you participate in this system, you have no right to complain of its result.

----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

Ooh i like that. Interesting

Ooh i like that. Interesting angle.

Electing not to vote IS a vote.

...it's your vote to not legitimize a corrupt system.

not really

It's letting "them" know that they win.

Gary Johnson or write in Ron Paul. Let them know that you are out there and you are watching what is going on.

what good does "letting them

what good does "letting them know that you are watching do?
At least not voting can open up a dialogue as to why you're not voting. But if someone is running you believe in, then for sure. Play the game. Who knows?

Every choice on my ballot is basically the same as Romney/Obama

My gas and wear/tear on my truck is worth more to me than that.

.

Let me mention my favorite yard sign

We took this sign to Madison when Ron Paul came to speak to us back in April and he drew over 5,000 people of all ages in 40 degree weather outside.

Patriots absolutely loved our sign. And how can you not?

It reads,
"If you don't vote for Ron Paul, do not complain. Period."

I wrote my thoughts on the subject years ago:

Principled Nonvoting: The Beginning of Disengaging From the State

(snip)
the perception, that voting equates to freedom. The reality is that nothing could be further from the truth. The fact that we are allowed to choose our dictators doesn’t make us any freer. It merely gives voters the feeling of power and the illusion of control. All the while they are being manipulated into supporting a government that implements policies detrimental to their well being.

What better way is there to get people to follow the law and pay taxes than to convince them that these things are their will? What better way is there to get people to tolerate the government’s evils than by convincing them that the situation is temporary and that they can change the government at the next election? What better way is there to get people to respect elected officials than to convince them that they, the people, chose these scoundrels to represent them? (A mandate, it’s called.) None of these things are true, but the fraud works. Democracy is held to be the best form of government yet devised. The question is best for whom? Certainly not the people.

It does work best for the ruling elites who can hide their evil plans behind a smiling democratic facade. (snip)
http://theinternationallibertarian.blogspot.com/2010/09/prin...

Restore liberty,
Darren

Come Home America http://comehomeamerica.us/

The International Libertarian http://theinternationallibertarian.blogspot.com/

Wow, that's fantastic!

I'm going to read your whole article.

If you vote, don't complain...

After all, you got your opportunity to express your views by voting, didn't you?

To accept this gift of being allowed to vote which the system gives you, and then complain afterwards anyway, is bad form, isn't it?

So, if you vote you don't have a right to complain,

and if you don't vote you don't have a right to complain.

What right DO you have???

You have the right to sit down and shut up, slave!

"Damn the pandas, full steam ahead"

-Admiral David Farragut

If you don't vote for someone

If you don't vote for someone that IS a no vote.

Vote or Don't Vote, that is the Answer

Voting is not a Right. Voting is a Privilege that is acquired when one reaches the age of 18 in the USA. It only takes reaching the age of 18, no matter how dependent one is upon their Parents and/or Gov't so we should not expect much to be made of this 'Privilege'.

I joined the Libertarian Party to enable myself to more aptly meet others seeking Independence in a non-forceful way.

It is far worse form to simply accept the behavior than to complain about it. At least one's neighbor might get off their arse to do something about it.

Vote or don't vote, at least keep complaining. If a great deal of us expect a fiscal and limited gov't, we're more like to get it. Invite your Libertarian Leaning Democrat and/or Republican friends to look at the Libertarian Party.

My first thought

My first thought is this: The phrase "If you don't vote, don't complain." is sort of meant to guilt people into voting, right? Well, if they have to be guilted into voting, chances are they aren't informed or don't have a solid opinion yet anyway. So it's not necessarily a good thing to throw around. I'd rather have people not voting than picking random people out of a sense of obligation. In other words, I'd rather let someone run their mouth with their right of free speech than for them to do that AND vote without knowing the issues and candidates.

And abstaining from voting for a certain position (or completely) because it best suits your views, is admirable. Personally I voted for Johnson (reason being, I'd like to give the LP party some percentage since writing in Paul would not count in my state), but like you I would have preferred Ron Paul.

Whether you vote for Paul, Johnson, or abstain, you're bucking the system... every bit helps.

Did anyone see that final post debate

poll of CNN that someone kindly posted to the Daily Paul? It said those polled would vote: 24% for Obama, 25% Romney and 1% undecided and 50% for NEITHER!!!!!!!!

Hee, hee. Now if those 50% would vote 3rd party or write in Ron Paul depending on their state, that would shake things up a bit, now, wouldn't it? Ooohh, that would be FUN!!

Yes, I agree, I wish people would get informed on the candidates before they go in to vote. They do our country no service by blindly pulling the trigger on straight party. In fact, in our brief research of the Candidates here in Wisconsin, I was thrilled to find Consitutionalists running as Independents and Libertarians to fight against Establishment Republicans & Democrats for Senate and House of Representatives - (Yeah, Keith Deschler against Paul Ryan - I hope he creams Ryan, although it would take a miracle!!!)

A vote for Gary Johnson is

A vote for Gary Johnson is the most credible, noticeable protest vote that aligns with the liberty movement. I would suggest you do whatever you feel is right, but getting Johnson is 5% nationally is very doable with the help of the Paul crowd and would dramatically change the election in 2016. That is the most common sense Presidential vote you could choose.... ultimately its your choice and unless you live in a swing state, it doesn't matter. But maybe you could benefit from giving Johnson another chance before the election because it will 4 more years before we could voice our opinions in such a manner on a national level. Check out the debate on Nov. 5th, maybe watch the other debate again....

my only issue with not voting is that so many people do who are oblivious and affect our lives, voting third party sows the establishment that you are not satisfied with the 2 party system, if the machines count the votes correctly...

Their motto is "Dont Tread On Me"...

The establishment already knows..

That you're not satisfied.

They don't care.

Kind regs from / Amsterdam (clip) /, Holland,
Richard

R3V ON!

It doesnt matter.... you can

It doesnt matter.... you can not vote, but you'll still pay taxes for war, drug prohibition, drones, and the countless other damaging policies that people are mostly oblivious to since they are not covered by Fox or CNN.

It is a FACT that if Johnson gets 5%, he gets more funding.... The Green Party gets more funding than the Libertarian Party and Johnson has still raised more money, will be more ballots, and is more nationally known.

I understand the not voting argument and I cant argue it.... you cannot change the mafia from the inside. BUT unless it is an organized protest to get millions of people NOT to vote who otherwise would be, not voting is pointless for the cause of liberty because you still have to live under the rules of the politicians that the normal voter chooses.

Their motto is "Dont Tread On Me"...

Well, be creative about disconnecting from the system..

There are lots of folk all around the world who manage pretty well without the (indeed) haunting feeling that they have to pay taxes for the welfare-warfare state.
You see, you don't have to live under the rules of your overlords. That's what animated the American R3V in the first place, not having to live under the rules of their overlords. So nothing new here, it's been done before. Just secede and see. You can do it. Think small, think free.

Kind regs from / Amsterdam (clip) /, Holland,
Richard

R3V ON!

I'm also a realists.... I

I'm also a realist.... I could hide in the woods, grow my own food, hunt, be self sufficient... not pay taxes and just travel or find somewhere to squat, it'd be true freedom. Unfortunately, I take the threat of violence and imprisonment seriously from the thugs who "protect" us.

I want to own a business, a home, and be apart of society... which is why I dont think detaching is the answer. Sure, break down... reconvene, and build smaller communities and work only more local levels, whatever, but it needs to done in the open because whats right shouldn't be hidden. It shouldn't be a hide and seek game

Truth is a powerful thing and more and more people are opening their eyes everyday, especially in younger generations. We need to transform the mainstream against the powers at be publicly. Illustrate truth vs lies.... its happening probably faster than we all know

Their motto is "Dont Tread On Me"...

If you still vote..

Please, don't complain.

Since you're complicit.

I peacefully withdraw consent from this collectivist system, as is my natural god-given right. So there's the deal: go along or get out. Be a slave or a sovereign.

Your choice.

Kind regs from / Amsterdam (clip) /, Holland,
Richard

R3V ON!

not voting is a vote

people tend to hold the voting ritual on a pedistal like it has some sort of grand meaning in your life.

vote for gary, for for paul, write in mickey mouse, don't vote federally at all.

but don't fall for the emphasis that the machine gives it, otherwise you are left dim and powerless.

exercising your true power is what you do the other 364 days a year when you vote with your voice, your feet and your wallet. that's what we should be concerning ourselves with.

Get involved, better than voting.

Why not run for office? Then if you don't win, people can't complain.
grant

Fortunately!

I do live in a state that allows write-ins and I did. One thing you can do for the future is begin lobbying your legislature to allow write-in voting.

P.S. We have elected members to the House of Representatives with our write-in vote.

Carlin said it best

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk
I agree alot with 2:05. If anything, the people who did not compromise by voting for a lesser of two evils have a greater right to complain. If things are going really $#itty, its because of the a-holes who voted for these corrupt bastards. (uh, i usually don't post with so much cursing, guess that's what happens when you start watching some of the carlin vids haha.)

a lot to choose from

I am at least happy this election that there a lot of good candidates to choose from. Now if you live in Oklahoma you might have limited options. Most if not all of the candidates are markedly better than the top two IMHO. Also, many of them overlap a lot with Ron Paul's platform. It is that overlap that I am voting for- a step in the right direction.

Sure don't vote if you don't like any. That is your choice.

If you are not voting because the election is rigged then I suggest not voting at all including local elections because even a blank/none of the above vote can be hijacked in the counting process. And I totally get not voting.

On a side note, it is interesting that the Oregon Constitution Party didn't put Virgil Goode on the ballot.