30 votes

Concerning the old saying, "If you don't vote, don't complain."

Thoughts?

For me, I can not bring myself to vote for Obama, Romney, Johnson, Stein, Goode, or Anderson, and I unfortunately don't have the option in my state to Write-In Ron Paul.

My first choice was of course going to be to vote for Ron Paul. When he didn't get the nomination, it was going to be a Write-In for Ron Paul. When I realized that he was not going to be on my ballot, I decided to 'Abstain' my vote for POTUS, and just vote for my other local elections.

But like I asked above; Thoughts?

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Voting is sort of an

Voting is sort of an endorsement of the process. Something dirty about touching that lever.

Indeed but if we can use it to show gaining support for liberty

then it's our dirty little switch.

There is nothing strange about having a bar of soap in your right pocket, it's just what's happening.

just curious

if Ron Paul were on the ballot would you vote?

smile

You can do more to make the world a better place by smiling at people than voting between the lesser of two (or more) evils.

You're voting your conscience

I have the reverse problem: with only the "top two" contenders available for even the local government here in California, my only local options are all corrupt, so I'm more likely to vote for who I'd like to see as POTUS and not vote local, except for the various propositions.

I want to support honest politicians, even if I believe they've been deceived in supporting policies I don't. I really don't want to vote for one corrupt contender to prevent a "worse" contender out.

"Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice." -- Thomas Paine

Old Sayings:

Going by old sayings, don't forget this one:

"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal."

-Emma Goldman

On the reasoning
That is if we are going with: "by NOT voting then one does NOT have the right to complain."
And the one adhering to this saying did NOT vote for me to come into this world with my god-given rights...
Then there is NOT a right to complain about me! Not about my abstaining to vote or any other aspect of my life. Not by that logic.

This is an instantaneous contradictory conundrum as well as being rather ridiculous. We find in all aspects that complaining about what others do will always result in an epic face-palm failure in reasoning.

So if it is Fail, why is it Said?
So we find this saying to be unreasonable, but why then is it such a popular saying?
I believe it is birthed by ignorance and forged through frustration --people who are trying to do what they believe to be a "good" deed by voting come to see that their single vote virtually means nothing in the grand scheme of things.
An idea like "If only more people voted then that corrupt politician would not be in office" is likely to be a motivating factor. To compensate they revert to mob-mentality: To get more people to join them in their efforts of voting; they mistakenly believe "might makes right" (and must never had read Thoreau).

Despite their good intentions of gathering a voice of the people, they unwittingly fall into the evilness of CONTROL tactics. All tactics of control are contrary to liberty, control of others is vile and repugnant to us, and the one control tactic that is being asserted here is trying to make a fool out of someone, trap them in reasoning they cannot get out of with what is referred to as "false dichotomy"; that is the manipulator is giving an illusion of only two choices: Vote or No Right to complain.
As long as we agree to the terms of this illusion we are bound to the end result and we find we are going to have to vote if we want to complain (and many non-voters are not voting because they say the system does not work for them, that is they have complaints about the system).

With this catch-22 we create a way for a vile system to seemingly have a right to exist: by removing our 1st amendment rights! Is this not like some kind of repugnant parasite that wiggles its way into a host by displacing parts of the good system? This is the first step toward every one of us losing our rights because the majority of us are succumbing to removing our own liberty and replacing it with control of others!

A Better Solution
Demonstration through action as example of why voting works better than not voting would be an incredible motivating factor to many people. This is the way people like MLK Jr., Ghandi, and Dr. Paul have worked, not by control attempts, but by sound reasoning that fueled their passion for liberty and they became examples to many others which caused massive change for us.

However, in taking this route, all the issues (i.e. complaints!) non-voters have against the system would need to be addressed or else this will end in utter failure (as one would be demonstrating to everyone a rigged system and therefore examples why it is impractical to waste time voting).

By fixing the system we remove the reasons why non-voters are not voting and those who were using tactics to attempt to trick people into voting with false dichotomies and other tactics would find they do not need these control attempts.
What we would find would be multitudes of people who would cherish the chance to participate in a system that allows them to express their opinion openly, honestly, and practically. Abstaining from voting would be unusual as nearly everyone would be voting in an honest system.

I know I would.

Wow, well stated arguement,

Wow, well stated arguement, thank you for sharing your insights, T0mmy!

If my need to be RIGHT is greater than my desire for TRUTH, then I will not recognize it when it arrives ~ Libertybelle

Ron Paul is a great man

Ron Paul fought against all odds to bring himself to the podium. He fought hard to teach all of us what liberty is really about. He fought hard to change the system from within but failing that, taught us all a lesson in reality. Sometimes you can win.

Rigged elections or not, Ron Paul won many with all the odds in a stacked deck against him. He prevailed in bringing his message to us. Now would you like to rollover and admit defeat or carry on in the fight? He showed us it is possible if you do not give up.

We all have our own ways of spreading the message. Our message is one of a change in government, or the limiting of government, or the removal of government, depending on who you ask. But one thing is certain, doing nothing, produces nothing.

Even if elections are rigged, voting helps to expose that, and sometimes we can even win them.

You might not be able to vote for a presidential candidate but don't let that stop you from working to further the message and the movement.

That's a dumb statement

Saying "If you don't vote, don't complain" is the same thing as saying you cannot complain if you don't choose which of 2 thugs you are going to allow to kick in your door, kick you in the nuts and steal your money at gun point...and possibly kidnap you and lock you in a cage.

...just saying

this is a silly excuse

to not vote for POTUS. im sure i can find a million reasons to not vote for who i am voting for. SURE Ron Paul isnt on the ballot but that's what happens when you put all your eggs in one basket. Stop thinking why you Shouldn't vote and start asking yourself why you SHOULD vote for X.

His name is Edward Snowden

What is Capitalism?
http://youtu.be/yNF09pUPypw

1st amendment rights are not conditional on whether one votes.

If I'm affected, I have a right to complain.

Given the election fraud and rigging, I'd prefer not to enable and prop the illusion. But that certainly does not mean I have no right to complain about the situation.

Quite the contrary. People should be trying to expose the fraud, whether they vote or not.

ecorob's picture

ditto, jc...

i'm not voting and you betcha i'm complaining...

i'm complaining about the rigged system, too!

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

I am not voting

IF no one showed up the world would change. Voting for this government endorses it, 0% voting should be the goal.

"The radical of one century is the conservative of the next. The radical invents the views. When he has worn them out, the conservative adopts them." - Mark Twain

Voting...

I do agree with the sentiment, "If you don't vote, don't complain."

However, with our elections being broken, I think there are a lot of ways to "vote" other than ballots. Being vocal, educating others, etc. can also create change and shape our political climate. That saying was coined when elections were seen as free and open. We need to start "voting" with something other than ballots.

Silence is consent... Make it known to others why you aren't voting and in a sense you are voting.

With that said I would respectfully urge you to vote for Gary Johnson. I respect whatever decision you make. I make it known to all that GJ was not my first choice but express what I am voting for and what I am voting against.

NOTE: I am not advocating violence in any way. The content of the post is for intellectual, theoretical, and philosophical discussion. FEDS, please don't come to my house.

Kinda disagree with your thought process.

Sounds more like excuses, excuses, anyone can talk themselves into never doing anything.

Waiting for the perfect candidate to show up is what dreams are made of, and is not reality.

Those are my thoughts anyway!

The Winds of Change!

I don't look at it that way.

I'm voting GJ since I can't write in Ron Paul. But voting for someone you don't agree with is compromising your own principles.

We've already established that you'll sleep with me, now we're just discussing the price.

When elections are rigged

...and we all know they are, EVERYONE has a right to complain. But since non-voters are the ones who usually get verbally attacked around here, I have to say...people who vote in an election they know is rigged are insane.

I'm with you Missy, but you

I'm with you Missy, but you know that! I had always thought that if I completed a write in ballot, that I could avoid the rigging I suspected was possible with electronic voting machines. After watching the video Michael posted, "Hacking Democracy" I have come to realize that not only are the voting machines easily hacked, but the memory cards in the tabulators of the write in ballots have a executable program that can be hacked, it's not just the voting machines.

Well, that was the last straw for me. I, like you, have decided that there is no point in supporting a system that is rigged against me.
By choosing to not participate,for the first time since I could vote, I am sending a tiny little message to TPTB that I see their game and will not play until this is corrected. Better yet, it has prompted me to contact Bev Harris to see if I can help with her work to expose Diebold and stop the shenanigans. I think that action will be much more powerful then casting a vote that may or may not get counted.

Furthermore, I feel that to say I have no right to complain is just a curtailment of my freedom of speech, especially when this system has been proven, without a doubt, to be corrupted.

If my need to be RIGHT is greater than my desire for TRUTH, then I will not recognize it when it arrives ~ Libertybelle

Then I have a question for you Missy?

Why are you here then?

Most of those here are trying to make a difference against all odds.

I assume you campaigned for Ron Paul right? Nothing has changed since he ran last time around, let alone this time, right?

So why are you here?

The Winds of Change!

Q: to the GJ'ist: Is it so hard to erect a "Daily Johnson"?

And wait 'till Ron Paul supporters start asking questions like these over there?

Then after a while, when it dawns on you that they don't and probably won't (ever), just ask yourself what's "the difference that makes the difference".

Two names for 2 different games: politics vs. freedom movement.

Kind regs from / Amsterdam (clip) /, Holland,
Richard

R3V ON!

LMAO! Love the play on words.

LMAO! Love the play on words. :) Well done.

Blessings )o(

ecorob's picture

she certainly NOT here to answer...

any of your brain dead questions!

she does so at her leisure...consider yourself lucky, lamebrain

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

Ron Paul tried to make a difference against all odds

...over about 30 years. He stood alone in congress much of the time voting for liberty and against tyranny. He got my attention because of that, about 15 years ago. I've supported him ever since through donations toward his campaigns for congress and president -- because I thought he should know that people saw what he was doing and supported & appreciated him, and because he was educating people. This sight was created for and named after him, so where else would I be??

Now a question for you: how are you going to "make a difference" by voting in an election you know is rigged? Please explain this to me. Don't bother with the 5% thing, because since the election is rigged, GJ isn't going to be allowed to get 5% of the vote.

Also, this isn't Gary Johnson's website, it's the Daily PAUL -- I supported Ron Paul, I didn't and still don't support Gary Johnson, so it's just a bit ironic that a GJ supporter would ask a long time RP supporter what they're doing on the Daily Paul.

ecorob's picture

great answer, missy...

you/we are NOT alone!

the gop will see next week...maybe, depends on how rigged it really has to all turn out

i like you, missy...and so do millions others like me and you

we ARE a force and this guy talking to you like this proves it
this jerk can go take a hike!

and we will burn their asses!

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

You're a FOOL missy!

I've dedicated my life since 1994 to this cause, and will not give up. You are also WRONG on this Daily Paul site being for Ron Paul ONLY. You do NOT own this site, nor do you MAKE its rules.

This site was dedicated to Ron Paul and his ideals. The site itself belongs Michael, and is accessible to all those who cherish Freedom and Liberty, NOT just Ron Paul.

Furthermore, if you think its Ron Paul or nothing, then you live in a world that is NOT reality. Ron Paul lost, Ron Paul is old, and Ron Paul will be leaving us eventually someday.

So you better get your head out of your fucking ass, and start looking for additional candidates who most represent Freedom and Liberty.

The Winds of Change!

Wheesh...

Missy is far from being a fool, I think you are missing Missy's point, WOC. I am sure she would be willing to support Liberty candiates if she was confident her vote was actually counted and was credited to the candidate of her choice. And therein lies the problem, we now KNOW, without a doubt, that none of us can be the least bit confident of the vote count. So, she has drawn her line in the sand, as is her right, and I, and many others here, stand with her...

If my need to be RIGHT is greater than my desire for TRUTH, then I will not recognize it when it arrives ~ Libertybelle

As this site does belong to Michael, you should read this:

http://www.dailypaul.com/guide
1. No profane, disrespectful or divisive language
5. Do not engage in flame wars, personal attacks on other members, incite or encourage violence, post spam or advertisements
7. No Assholes. (Referring to this: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_No_Asshole_Rule)

Also, do you think you can change someones mind by calling them a "FOOL" or "Asshole" and telling them, "you better get your head out of your fucking ass..."???
(You didn't call missy an ahole, but you did recently to another)
Do you think that this method of communication sways other readers to agree with you???

Serious questions, this is the rEVOLution.

Michael Nystrom's picture

The sad part for me about owning this site

Is having to act like a Kindergarten teacher at times.

Boring, stupid, and not how I prefer to spend my time.

Should I give everyone a talking to every single time they get out of line?

Should I just ban people?

Hey Winds of Change - knock it off.

I understand people lose their temper. Collect yourself, compose yourself. If you do it again while of sound mind and body, I'll just ban you for making my life hell.

Thanks.

To be mean is never excusable, but there is some merit in knowing that one is; the most irreparable of vices is to do evil out of stupidity. - C.B.

I'll make it easy for you Michael, I'll leave Michael!

Five years in one spot is long enough!

The Winds of Change!

for the record

I didn't complain about winds_of_change. While the nasty language is unpleasant, I think it goes a long way toward exposing the people who use it. w_o_c can flame away for all I care, he's only hurting his own reputation and sabotaging whatever causes he promotes.