59 votes

Do you people remember the Reform Party?

It was a party started by Ross Perot to get his ideas across.

It was CALLED the "Reform Party" - but really it was the "Ross Perot Party".

It floundered and died as soon as Ross Perot stepped aside. Oh sure, Pat Buchanan and later Ralph Nader tried to use it as a vehicle to run for President afterward. But they went nowhere. They weren't Ross Perot.

People who don't remember history have to repeat it.

If we make this exclusively the "Ron Paul movement" and refuse to let anybody BUT Ron Paul be accepted as a leader - its going to die just as surely as the Reform Party did.

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You can't compare Ron Paul with Ross Perot

You can't compare Ron Paul with Ross Perot. Ron Paul is so much more .

Seems to me if someone would

Seems to me if someone would run on Ron Paul's platform I could easily jump on board...I don't care what party it is, it is the platform that concerns me.


And for me it will only be Paulitics to keep me out of the usual Apathy that the government IS...Ron Paul will go down like Jesus his Lord. As the stone that the Freemason builders rejected.....but he will remain an American cornerstone in politics.

That's Why The LP is Successful

The LP is the most successful challenger to the dominant parties because it isn't based around a single personality, as the Green and Reform and other parties are.

Most parties don't have a central principle from which their platform derives. People become Democrats because they like Clinton, or join another party because they like Ralph Nader or Ross Perot. They don't have any unchanging core belief, so the delegates just keep revising what they believe.

The LP is based on the non-agression principle, and though interpretations vary, it remains the core principle for the party, regardless of who our candidates are.

That's why Ron Paul keeps discouraging people from hero-worship, and encourages them to form principles and stick to them. The party that currently best represents what he believes in, is the LP (of which he is a lifetime member). It would be wonderful if we could transform three or four parties into defenders of freedom.

What do you think? http://consequeries.com/

Voting for the Libertarian Party candidate is worth considering!

That is the response I got from several people today when I told them the following. In our state, Massachusetts, Obama is leading in the polls and Romney is way behind. A vote for either of them will be lost in the shuffle.

But the Libertarian Party candidate has 4% nationwide and if he can get just 5% in this election which appears doable, then in 2016 the LP will be eligible for matching funds, perhaps 90M dollars, which will enable their candidate to get his message out to the electorate as never before.

Your vote will count far more for the sake of your grandchildren as the two party system will be challenged for once and people will hear a meaningful debate of crucial issues with solutions never heard from either major party.

Very positive response from several people. One even complemented me for being a valuable grass roots activist!

No Man's need constitutes an obligation on the part of another man to fulfill that need.

Not really a fair comparison

If anything, the most dyed in the wool Perot supporters learned to never again put all their faith in one candidate or any organization. Perot let us down by dropping out (then coming back in later), and then wrecking his own successful organization from within -- probably due to threats from the PTB.

For many of us, it isn't Ron Paul or no one. It's more like, who else can be trusted in this election cycle? I'm sure if Harry Browne or Aaron Russo were still living and running on the LP ticket, we'd gladly vote for one of them. Gary Johnson is just so mediocre, not enough to excite most Ron Paul supporters. We are our own leaders, we freely chose to support RP just as you freely choose to support GJ. You need to be honest with yourself about this and stop trying to smear us as a cult.

I agree

Actually,joining the Reform Party and campaigning heavily for Ross Perot is when I first got involved in the political process and have been ever since.

What the poster writes is true in my view. If we make it just about Ron Paul and refuse to accept new leaders....the Revolution will die.

Couldn't Agree More

I know Ron Paul was a principled man making him an inspiring man to lead a movement but as you say this is a rEVOLution of ideas. Ron Paul has said so multiple times in the past.

We need to get an early start on 2016: Support Rand PAC 2016



It's about an "Idea Whose Time has Come."

There are a number of differences between the Reform Party and Liberty movement that may be important to your question. He formed the party and funded it with his own money. When Perot “stepped aside” his checkbook went with him, and the supporters left quickly after the election. The Reform Party was Ross Perot and he was very hands-on in the operation. I feel much closer to Paul than I did to Ross Perot but I also have put more energy and money into this current campaign, and I am more involved with the issues now. Those differences coupled with my sense that our national health is much worse than it was then will keep me involved beyond this election.

The other thing, possibly more important, was the Contract with American that Newt Gingrich sold to the American people to “reform” many of the problems in government identified by the people and by Perot. This gave false hope to voters that politicians had seen the light, and the newly elected representatives who promised reform were going to make the changes demanded by the voters. If you look at the terms of the Contract with America you will see that none of the reforms happened. President Clinton and Gingrich struck a deal that seemed to satisfy the “chattering class” and Clinton said, “to reinvent our government so that it serves better and costs less, …We will meet these challenges, not through big government. The era of big government is over…” Whether coincidental to those efforts or otherwise, the economy seemed to get better and the deficit was reduced and angry people went back to their lives and forgot the Reform Party and Ross Perot.

Many Paul supporters and other Liberty minded people, I believe, see things much differently than we did two decades ago, and in many respects we all have a sense that things are much worse. Civil liberty was not in question then, and we have a whole new brand of politician in power that are offering no reform and don’t seem to care what the voters think. The most important difference is that many of the people who are involved in the Liberty movement have correctly identified the problems, and who is responsible, and rather than just adopting the view of someone else they have informed themselves. That personal knowledge and understanding will not disappear as one important person moves on.


Why We Must Re-brand Liberty Inside the 2-Party Duopoly.

If you are thinking that we need to take our R3VOLution "to the next level" I 100% agree with you. But if you are thinking that we need to go back to the Libertarian Party, I invite you to think DEEPER upon the issue.


Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

Jesse Ventura was part of the

Jesse Ventura was part of the reform party when he was elected Govenor.

The people who ran the Reform Party killed it; C4L will follow

The people who ran the Reform Party under Ross Perot quarreled among themselves after he left, and this killed it; C4L will follow suit, as most Ron Paul folk don't have much care for what C4L has become.

Dr. Paul can preserve his movement and C4L after he leaves the Congress by focusing his attention on cultivating good leaders who can take the reins and work toward attaining power for liberty candidates.

If Dr. Paul goes straight into retirement, or opts for a speaking tour, then yes -- it is only a matter of time before C4L is dead.

"Cowards & idiots can come along for the ride but they gotta sit in the back seat!"

As Tom Woods Correctly Points Out

C4L steers away from foreign policy. That is a mistake. Foreign policy is what drew many of us in.

Much of libertarianism concerns the seen vs. the unseen. With that in mind, think of how may people C4L is failing to bring into the movement because it steers away from foreign policy.

"Bipartisan: both parties acting in concert to put both of their hands in your pocket."-Rothbard

I'm in the C4L I don't stray away from it

I'm in the C4L I don't stray away from it. Some people have this perception that when your in the C4L you have to stray away from foreign policy that is not the case. The C4L is just a bunch of Ron Paul supporters that helps bring Ron Paul supporters together & keeps people in touch with one in other.

Thanks - Let Me Correct My Comment

Tom Woods pointed out that the person running C4L thinks it should steer away from foreign policy. His comment concerned that person and not C4L as a whole.

As for me, I would like to see C4L emphasize foreign policy. This is an area that really cancan really draw people in, and once one is drawn in the bigger picture can come into focus.

"Bipartisan: both parties acting in concert to put both of their hands in your pocket."-Rothbard

Rand Paul is their "leader"

And Mitt Romney approves... This means that Jeb Bush has a clear shot at 2016... Rand is finished. And the Ron Paul movement is dead. So long as they look up to people who will continue to sell them out...

Huge part of Reform Party broke off, created America First Party

Not really true, This party is still going, some embedded leaders of Reform Party tried to bancrupt it, so many of the states broke off or disaffiliated from the Reform Party to create the America First Party so not to get involved with huge debt owed by the Reform Party.

If the party was not financially sabotaged from within, probably by both Republican and Democrat operatives, it would still be going today. At the time, the Reform Party was the third biggest political party in the United States. It wasn't until after Pat Buchanan ran for President on the ticket, and the Buchanan brigade took over the party that the entrenched leaders began to take money from the party to leave nothing for the new leadership, but a big multi-million dollar debt. So seeing this, many (most) of the state parties then diss affiliated from the Reform party to form the America First Party. BTW Nader was never part of the Reform Party.

Just a note

Didn't say Ralph Nader was part of Reform Party.

Independent Ralph Nader was ENDORSED by the Reform Party in 2004 - Reform Party didn't run a candidate that year.

Reform Party also gave Ralph Nader access to seven ballot lines in seven states - down from 48 states Reform Pary had access to in 2000.

Great Example....

I don't understand why some Ron Paul supporters feel that they discovered liberty and own the patent. Ron Paul was a Libertarian giving the same message he gives now.

Republicans wouldn't give him the time a day because they thought Libertarians never had a chance. They believed the MSM that distorted Libertarians as a bunch of pot-smoking hippie pacifist that were really only interested in legalizing drugs.

Historical events have changed all that. Many see what Libertarians have been saying actually makes sense. It took Ron Paul switching parties to get them to actually listen.

There will never be another Ron Paul, but the're are many that come close, close enough worth supporting, certainly better than anything the GOP or Democrats have to offer.

If Libertarians and Ron Paul supporters would work as allies, we could advance our cause for liberty. If some insist that Liberty is only worth achieving if they change the GOP, then it will never happen.

We need Democrats as well. We have to appeal to both parties to have the majority. Most Democrats are not going to join Republicans for the same reason most Republicans would never join Democrats, no matter how much they claim to change the platform.

No worries, what Libertarians know is events will take place that will force us to change to our way of thinking, it's only a matter of time. The question is how much pain will we suffer before we realize the errors of our way.

Our movement does not compare to the Reform party

I think it is fallacious to compare our movement to the Reform party (a non-sequitur in my estimation).

We are not a party ... we are a movement that spans all parties.

Ross Perot is/was a good businessman who was at the right place at the right time with the right message. He did not have the depth and breadth of education in and understanding of economics that Dr. Paul brings to our movement.

Nor did Ross Perot have the broad personal appeal that Dr. Paul enjoys.

No, I think it is more fitting to compare Dr. Ronald Earnest Paul to one of our founding fathers. I don't think there is anything in our history to compare to our movement ... not even the civil rights movement of the 60's.

It's not just Presidential,

It's not just Presidential, there are State House & Senate race's going on as well as U.S. House & Senate Race's. If you have not yet join Campaign for Liberty connect with other Ron Paul supporters in your area

The Reform Party wasn't just Presidential either.

Jesse Ventura was elected Governor of Minnesota on the Reform Party.

But the party was really the Ross Perot Party - and when he no longer led it died.

When someone steps up

that carries his message, I'll get on board.. someone like Judge Nap or Tom Woods.. till then....

I won't however just take what is given me as a replacement if the person is lacking and the ones running are woefully without.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Exactly what they said about the Reform Party.

When someone steps up after Ross Perot....

But the big difference is that there were not active people in the Reform Party preventing such a step-up.

Nobody was going around saying "Ross Perot of nobody." Nobody was insisting on writing Ross Perot's name in even when he wasn't a candidate.

We have that HERE.

You do know that all of that was said for this election cycle


You would think that people could see the passion that this man has inspired and appreciate it but all people get for that passion and loyalty is crap on a site that was inspired by him as well.

Johnson doesn't have that kind of gift...if he did, you'd see people flocking to him as well.. You'd see stadiums filled.

But you don't. What you FAIL to realize though is that Ross Perot and Ron Paul are two different people as well and so is their message.

Give us someone with the same message and we'll back him or her.

The ole "there will never be another Paul" bullshit is getting tiresome when I know it to be a lie.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.


A lot of people are expecting Ron Paul to run again in 2016.

Ron Paul or nobody! is the battle cry.

I'm pretty sure you can't know who is expecting what

unless huffing jet fuel gives you telepathy somehow.

Let me rewrite that for you so it's more reasonable.

"A lot of people are hoping Ron Paul runs again in 2016.. Ron Paul or None at All is our battle cry!"

If he doesn't and Tom Woods runs... I like to believe that many would back him and that goes for Judge Nap as well...so really, the Ron Paul or None at All is probably a battle cry of those that refuse to take whatever dog food that's handed us anymore.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Justin Amash

Justin Amash carries the message. He needs help to retain his seat this election. He will be age-eligible for presidency in 2016.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

I'll see what he continues to do and make my personal

decision then.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Your Cause for Liberty is no less important or desirable

than Ron Paul's or anyone elses for that matter.

People often say that Ron Paul is not a great spokesperson. They are too lax in their qualification. He was the perfect person of the highest caliber for the job of Liberty Spokesperson. He did not falter in his nonviolent quest for Liberty. Great speaker or not, he never it let him stop speaking and for that he earned a great place in history.

Liberty is not something that needs to be Restored every 100-200 years. Liberty needs restoration on a daily basis. Our Police (once Peacekeepers) and Court System (once Objective) are proof of it. Liberty, as some believe, is not not being invaded by foreigners. Liberty is not being invaded at all; by foreigners, cartels, government, or by our neighbor(s).

Your Cause for Liberty is no less important or desirable than Ron Paul's, or anyone elses for that matter. I am so thankful to see so many people focusing on the Prize rather than how each other needs to get there.