23 votes

Pro Marijuana Legalization? I bet you are still biased and I'll prove it

First and foremost, I am a long time smoker of marijuana. I've been at it since I was 12 or 13 years old and have no regrets. I am now over 30 years of age and a PhD level chemist. I made A's in every class that didn't include homework or attendance in the grade (I was once given a B in a class because of absences where the lowest grade I made on a test was a 93%, and in another I made a 78-79% where homework was 20% of the grade - which I never needed to complete to learn the material).

During those early years, I was surrounded by kids of all ages that were users - and some abusers - of behavioral modification drugs such as Ritalin. Although I was offered these other legal drugs on several occasions, I never accepted.

I tried methamphetamine one time when I was 15, and it nearly caused me to kill a good friend in a fit of rage. That was my first and last experience with meth. It is a terrible prohibition related drug that every person should resist if offered. Over the years, I have seen many otherwise good people fall victim to its hold.

Other than that, I have never moved on to any other drug besides alcohol and tobacco. I have never tried cocaine, ecstasy, or any of the other widely available and popular drugs. I took oxycodone for a short period when I had back surgery but never developed an addiction. I smoked cigarettes from the time I was 12 until I was 29 (17 years). I successfully quit that deadly habit with the help of nicotine patches.

I have absolutely no reason to be biased against marijuana - nor do many of you. If I were to ask you whether alcohol or marijuana was more harmful to the health of users, most of you would reply - "Alcohol is worse." Then, why are you still biased against it? Don't believe me?

Drug War propaganda has been very influential on most Americans. It began heavily in the 1930's with the yellow journalist William Randolph Hearst and has continued for the last 80 years. To display the bias that still remains - even though you may be for legalization - consider this scenario:

A friend rings your doorbell. You go to answer the door, but your young child just beats you to it. As you and your child stand before your visiting friend, your friend inquires to you - "Would you like to come over and smoke a joint?" - without any notice to your youngster.

Honestly, what would be your reaction? Would you be mad at your friend?

Now, let's modify the situation with a more harmful drug - alcohol. You and your child stand before your friend, and your friend says - "Want to come over and have a couple of beers?"

Likely, most of you felt nothing when alcohol was offered even though it's poisonous to humans. Hell, some of you probably have enough alcohol in the house to kill your child a hundred times over. However, not even a drug dealer has enough marijuana in his or her house to kill anything.

So, why the bias? Chalk it up to the power of propaganda. What other biases do you have to which you are unaware?

Quod erat demonstrandum - QED - as an old school mathematician would say.




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I call bullshit. Meth does

I call bullshit. Meth does not cause you to go into a rage.

basically its ok to talk about drinking and not smoking

Socially we are tempted to shelter our kids from some drugs and not others because of stigma associated with it.

Hmmm, help me understand

I am almost twice your age, never in the hospital and no surgeries. No alcohol (it's a drug) no smoking (another drug)and no maryjane (another drug). For a young man it appears you have had a lot of drugs. Some of your classmates were forced to take drugs (Ritalin)and the only difference is that you self medicate.

I think you should have the right to self medicate and are you saying that smoking is a deadly habit and alcohol and smoking MJ are not?

Good for you that your only drugs are MJ, Alcohol, previous smoker, some Oxycontin and some meth.

You are right you are a PHD (Piled Higher and Deeper) level chemist.

You can test my theory chemist. Stop using all that stuff and watch what happens. You can record your own withdrawal. That is if you can hold the pen still. I think you should have the right to do that too.

thedoctorisin

8 out of 10 persons admitted to Rehabs

are admitted as a result of addiction to legal substances. (i.e. alcohol and "medicine"). Furthermore, many heroin users began with an addiction to prescription oxycotin or Opana and then discovered that heroin is cheaper and better. Why don't you go write some more scrips pusherman?

The only drugs I do are...

alcohol, caffeine, and marijuana. I tried methamphetamine ONCE as an uninformed child. My friend's dad was a drug dealer, and my friend stole some from his stash. If it weren't illegal, I likely would have never had access to it.

Alcohol is certainly deadly. You are putting words in my mouth to say otherwise. Let's compare the deadliness of these three drugs.

According to the LD50 values taken from Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) found at - http://www.hazard.com

The LD50 of THC is 666 mg/kg. Assuming the marijuana under consideration is 20% THC by mass (high quality), each joint uses 1 gram of weed, and the average human has a mass of 70kg (154lbs), the average person would have to consume 233 joints at one time to cause half of the people that decided to consume this much to die. This is extremely unlikely to ever happen.

The LD50 for caffeine is 192 mg/kg. An 8oz cup of coffee has on average 133mg of caffeine. Still assuming a 70kg human, it would take 100 cups of coffee (800oz) to cause death for 50% of the people who drank that much. A 5-hour energy has 207mg of caffeine. A person would have to drink 65 5-hour energy servings to have a 50% chance of death.

The LD50 of ethanol is 7,060 mg/kg. The most commonly consumed liquors are 40% by volume. Assuming the density of ethanol is 0.79g/mL, a shot is 44mL (1.5oz), and 70kg humans, half of people would die after drinking 36 shots.

Addressing your other dribble that was intended to insult me, there are no withdrawals from marijuana. Further, I've never experienced any memorable withdrawal symptoms from caffeine, and I only recently began consuming coffee again. Other than that, I drink water when I'm thirsty. For alcoholics, there are definitely withdrawal symptoms associated with quitting. However, I go for days at a time without a drink and have never felt any such symptoms.

The only surgery that I ever had was back surgery which is completely unrelated to any kind of substance use. It's likely due to the years I worked in dirt excavation during and following high school, or maybe from heavy lifting in the door factory where I worked while I went to college, or maybe it was from the lifting I did as a child when we moved about once a year to different places, or maybe it was caused by the work associated with the trees I have fallen over the years, or possibly its from bending over every year working in my garden.

You judge too quickly, sir. Barring your fighting in a war or similar, I may be half your age, but I likely have twice the life experience.

That post made you feel really good

But cannabis causes no withdrawal I'm sorry to inform you.

Nope, still not biased.

Nope, still not biased.

I voted yes on 64 here in

I voted yes on 64 here in Colorado.. so did my 2 brothers and their spouces, so did my 70 and 66 year old parents. So did my 2 kids. Not because we use but because those who want to use should have the right to put into their bodies what they want... (yes i use!)

Likely the first domino...

Thanks for your contribution to common sense drug policy.

Denise B's picture

I think you are

right to a certain extent about the propaganda aspect, but I also think that some of the negative response you would feel is simply because it is illegal. Whether or not we agree with the laws, at this point in time they are illegal and they make a point of drilling that into kids heads (especially in the public schools, i.e. DARE programs, etc.). I think most parents would be uncomfortable with someone suggesting that they break any law in front of their kids (i.e. "you want to go shoplifing with me, etc.) so that is definately a part of it.

I think that if marijuana is ultimately made legal you would see that perspective change to some extent, but there will always be people who feel that any drug usage is a poor decision for both themselves and their children.

You got me :-)

I'll admit it, I felt a twinge of annoyance. I'm actually very opened minded about pot and my children (12 & 13) are aware of my feelings but I have to admit your scenario bothered me a bit.
Interesting thread, it made me think.

Whyever in hell would I be angry?

Though if the arrival at the door were really a friend of mine, he'd likely know that I don't smoke anything at all, and never have.

As for the youngster, I raised my children (and am raising grandkids) to know about the realities of psychoactive substances, both physiological and sociocultural, including the consequences of getting nailed by the government goons in their hideous "War on (Some) Drugs."

Better every modern American child should know about this hateful aspect of life as soon as they can manage an understanding thereof.

Unlike the author of this piece, I've been almost entirely abstemious when it comes to alcohol, nicotine, and drugs, but that's not because of any particular virtue on my part. I simply don't like anything that impairs (or might impair) the function of my central nervous system.

What others find pleasurable in that stuff just sails right to hellangone past me.

But then, of course, I'm surrounded by an overwhelming number of people who find no appeal in speculative fiction, Austrian School economics, or the music of Tom Lehrer, so I figure I'm entitled to my own lack of interest in their amusements.

"In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for. As for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." [H.L. Mencken]

I love Tom Lehrer!!

That's how my dad helped me learn "The Elements". So funny, I've never heard anyone else outside my family mention him. :-)
The Elements
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGM-wSKFBpo&feature=fvwrel

I don't smoke weed. Makes me

I don't smoke weed. Makes me paranoid.

That's because you aren't smoking the right strain...

and you're not in the right setting. Go out in the middle of nature (not a state or national park where rangers are lurking) on a beautiful day with some friends you trust and smoke some sativa strain pot. Build a campfire if it's cold or day turns to night. Take some tunes, something for munchies and something comfortable to lie on.

It also takes building-up a slight tolerance. Once you have, you'll enjoy the ride.

When I was in the boy scouts, we'd go camping at least once a month, man, they were great times. I never laughed so much over nothing. The orchestra of nature never sounded better. I never felt paranoid.

That's crazy.

The following day your kid asks her teacher if she wants to come over to your house for a joint. Before you know it, you will lose your kid, your house and your life as you know it.

Your straw man argument is stoned on his ass ;)

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty" TJ

Last time I checked...

it wasn't against the law for a person to ask another person a question. As I recall, you have to engage in an illegal action to break the law.

Furthermore, that is a simple way to dismiss what I was discussing. The real question is - Would you feel the same in the absence of illegality?

It won't be long until marijuana is legal, and parents may likely find themselves in similar situations. Just food for thought.

Really?

Since when do you have to do something illegal to have your life destroyed by the police and courts?

I can honestly say that I wouldn't be irritated if it was legal. However, it's not legal, and children will repeat anything you don't want them to repeat. Not only that, but they'll do it at the most inconvenient moment, like to the D.A.R.E officer. So, while it's still illegal, I would be very irritated if a friend did that.

Seems you are just asking

for your life to be destroyed by the police and courts by sending your kid to public school. I won't be sending my kids there. I can't believe someone as paranoid as you would send your kids there. It is mind boggling.

Hi dw

I saw you on line and am popping in on you. I hope you can come over here http://www.dailypaul.com/261299/the-person-at-the-daily-paul... to say high and leave a vote, your pesky bear friend :)

Some will disagree, but for me...

Although I disagree with a law, I am still obligated to follow it in most circumstances. Joints are illegal, alcohol is not. I think all drugs should be made legal, but when they are not they should (*in most circumstances) be abstained from.

I've never smoked, injected, or sniffed anything. And I've never intentionally drunk a drop of alcohol for pleasure. I'm strongly against individuals doing so at all, and I'm strongly in favor of its legalization. It's just that in the meantime in most scenarios, I believe the law should be obeyed. That has a lot to do with my Christianity, but we ought to be mindful of how this movement is viewed from the outside as well. We expect the government to operate within the rule of law - even when they disagree with it. We ought to expect that of ourselves as well.

"For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God."
(1 Peter 2:15-16)

"Rebellion to tyrants to

"Rebellion to tyrants to obedience to god." -Ben Franklin 1776
The time for civil disobedience is now, and cannabis was used in the earliest baptismal ceremonies in Christianity before it was derailed by Rome.

I would never smoke pot (or

I would never smoke pot (or allow any kids I had to smoke pot as long as they lived in my home) recreationally, that being said, I would say the exact same thing about alcohol, as I don't drink either.

I started smoking weed in middle school,

I am now a lawyer. I have to say, all the best strategic moves I've made to enrich my life have been when I was high. Smoking weed brings you back to stillness where awareness over something turns to awareness over all things... a perfect state to deploy your arsenal of passions.

Whether you think you can or you can't, you're right. -Henry Ford

Drugs aren't safe. WTF?

Lots of things aren't safe. How biased do you have to be to make that statement?

Do you mean "Illicit" ie the DEA's brilliant lists? Because if the want to be fair all chemical compounds but water are a drug at some dosage or another. The fast acting psychotropic are generally banned. Because if you can feel better by taking a pill, you must need someone to prevent you from taking it too much or too often. That is the reasoning. If it makes you happy, you won't be able to control yourselves. This is not an argument without merit. Many cannot. But persecution and punishment adds only insult to injury. A list of the big killer chemicals would look something like this: (by their current deathtoll) ( not their toxicity)

1. Tobacco
2. Alcohol
3. Simple Sugars
4. Prescription drugs( various)
5. ILLICIT drugs(all)
6. ...

10859. Pot ( just after baby powder )
...

air
Last. Water - which kills plenty, just not by consuming it, (breathing it or it's absence-death in minutes/days

Drugs aren't safe. A statement like that feeds exactly what's wrong with the way we are dealing with "drugs".

By " drugs" I mean the "Whole List" of chemicals that are "Consumed" prioritized for the importance, effectiveness ,and value of rational controls, as with alcohol by the levels and the speed at which they produce death and destruction and their actual monetary cost to society.

Brad on DRUGS - yes please, I will have some more, what time does the buffet close? and could i get extra halucinogens please thanks, and with the ecstasy,on the side? Great. What ? DMT gravy? You don't say. Can i get a doggy bag for those afterall? And six bottles of mead and another couple appetizer platters to go
And could you toss in ome after dinner sleepy-time hero- mints for coming down tomorrow night or so, , and a tub of that gravy. Yes. Extra Large. well family size then..

" I like 'em"

AND - Many drugs are dangerous for many people, just like cars, and booze, and HFCS, skydiving.

BUT - We don't bunch it all together and ban all dangerous activities!!! we place reasonable controls individually tailored to minimize dangers, and we punish those who cause harm, not those who disagree, or worse yet the few that CAN handle their shit.

Rant complete.
Unless it gets you high, then it's off to the gulags

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http://youtu.be/yuC_4mGTs98

I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility to every form of tyranny over the mind of man.

TwelveOhOne's picture

New acronym: HFGMOCS

I saw your mention of HFCS, and wanted to inform that I've been spreading a new acronym verbally: HFGMOCS. Because the corn they're using now to create HFCS is GMO corn.

Thus, staying away from sodas these days is far more healthy an activity than it was when HFCS contained "real" corn.

I love you. I'm sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you.
http://fija.org - Fully Informed Jury Association
http://jsjinc.net - Jin Shin Jyutsu (energy healing)

Drugs are bad?

Are they really? Well you tell that to your doctor when you're sick and he wants to give you antibiotics. During your next headache, don't reach for aspirin that's also a drug. I heard child birth is real pain in the ass... don't ask for an epidural because that is BLATANTLY a drug. Who likes a cigarette after sex? Stop it, nicotine is a (useless) drug. Can't sleep? Well masturbate until you fall asleep because Ambien is a dangerous FDA approved drug. A little arthritis trouble? Stay away from those NSAIDs... they're drugs. Unmanageable anxiety troubles? I bet you go for the Xanax(alprazolam) to get you through the day but you should stop, it's part of the benzodiazepine family... meaning it's a DRUG! How about this one... coffee! Caffeine is the bastard cousin of cocaine... and it's... a DRUG!!! Coffee's primary use is as a drug (stimulant) in the mornings to ward off sleepiness like garlic to a vampire.

Now that's where the bias is. No one seems to have trouble with the taxed and "regulated" FDA approved drugs or those "generally recognized as safe". No one is screaming for Robotussin or Dramamine to be ripped off the shelves because they can be abused to create a hallucinogenic good time after school. No one is protesting coffee companies because someone who has been up for 36 hours is using coffee as their only means to stay awake so they can drive home.

The point is allowing choice to be the responsibility of the individual but a lot of you shouldn't kid yourselves into believing that you don't buy into the government and industry pushed propaganda that "illicit drugs" are bad, evil, unhealthy, or useless to mankind and society.

"Well you tell that to your

"Well you tell that to your doctor "

The medical industry is a mess too.

Also, your post doesn't make your point. Most medical drugs are by prescription only (and they shouldn't be), and people get arrested for trying to mail themselves prescriptions as well, as was the case of a sports figure recently.

So some people are very consistent - it's big government and no freedom all the way!

Fla. doctor faces prescription drug charges in Ky. - The Herald ...
www.herald-dispatch.com/.../Fla-doctor-faces-prescription-dr... 7, 2012 – ... in a conspiracy with two men to illegally distribute prescription narcotics in northeastern Kentucky. ... Print | E-mail to a friend NEWS BRIEFS ...
Ky. part of national prescription drug initiatives - Kentucky ...
news.cincinnati.com/.../Ky-part-national-prescription-drug-init...ShareSep 21, 2012 – Kentucky will join several states hard hit by prescription drug abuse to ... Enter your email and we will send you a link to reset your password.

etc

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

Oh yeah I forgot that it's

Oh yeah I forgot that it's impossible to buy medical drugs from a dealer on the street or over the internet because they're by prescription only. I bow down to your highly conventional thinking.

Your argument is - there is

Your argument is - there is bias because recreational drugs and prescription drugs are treated differently is not true.

They're treated the same. Society makes both illegal for common people to obtain. Get a better argument. You aren't even convincing to me, and I believe in liberty and minimum government. An authoritarian will simply retort - lets outlaw both!

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.