55 votes

STOP All Your Damned Quarreling.

Face it - 99.99% of us are here for the same reason.

LIBERTY right???

So Libertarians, please quit bashing Ron Paul write-ins and vice versa.

WE are not the enemy.

Sure, we're all still hurting after what happened to Dr. Paul in Tampa. We love that man.

We poured our hearts, souls, time, effort and money into getting this great statesman nominated.

But we LOST (although yes I agree - they had to break their own rules to keep us OUT).

In any case, we gotta face it now.

It does no good to bash each other and divide ourselves further. That's EXACTLY what the 2-party monster wants.

If you wrote in Ron Paul then God bless you.

If you voted for Gary Johnson then God bless you.

If you voted for Virgil Goode then God bless you.

If you voted for Merlin Miller then God bless you.

ALL of them are FAR better candidates than Obamney.

I applaud everyone of you intelligent liberty thinkers who chose alternate paths.

You are my dearest FRIENDS - Not my enemies.

We have PLENTY of enemies out there.

After this Tuesday, let's all raise our glasses to everyone here who chose the very best path they could have for individual liberty.

And then let't raise one more glass real high for Mr. Michael Nystrom - the greatest voice for Liberty on the Internet!

LONG LIVE THE DAILYPAUL!!!

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Can you add a Merlin Miller

Can you add a Merlin Miller to that "God bless you" list of presidential candidates? :-)
He has more cajones to speak the entire truth than all of them, imo.

DONE! - Merlin Miller added.

Thanks for the tip.

"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed, over-regulated, and overrun by bureaucrats. The founders would be ashamed of us for what we are putting up with."
-Ron Paul

Who to Vote For?

I agree with the notion that voting for any Liberty candidate (even writing in Ron Paul) is better than voting for the establishment one party system we have today. I just think that we are in Ron Paul's r3VOLution, which is the Liberty MOVEMENT. We need to find some way to come to the same terms for our MOVEMENT. "A house divided cannot stand." "Together we stand, divided we fall." "One for all and all for one." These are true sayings. If we do not get together to form a vehicle for the Liberty Movement, we will be weaker because of it. I do not see Gary Johnson winning the election, but I do see the Libertarian Party as a vehicle that the Liberty Movement can use going into the future. Another vehicle we need to fight for are the chairs at the state and local levels of the GOP. If we do these two things, we could conceivably create two vehicles for Liberty. Imagine that! What if we gain enough seats in the GOP and get instant ballot access for the Libertarian Party in the next election. That is two vehicles and the Liberty Movement will be in full swing. So, if you do not want to vote for Gary Johnson because his principles just do not match Ron Paul's, you will not have to worry about him getting elected, the election is already set for the One Party Demlicans/Republicrats, think of it as voting for the Libertarian Party, soon to be Liberty Party. Liberty is what Libertarian stands for. My Opinion.

I always put My Opinion at the end, because I am not trying to force anyone into anything. We are individuals and we should just be posting our OPINIONS, and if others see our point and agree, great, if not, they have that individual right to do what they want. So I agree that we need to quit infighting.

Agree why fight over a vote

Agree why fight over a vote that won't be counted anyway? It doesn't matter what name you check the counter will tally the vote up to whom ever the code has set to win.

Flashback: Romney wins 90% of

Flashback: Romney wins 90% of the vote in Ron Paul's Texas district! You know the district Ron Paul has been elected with in a dozen times.

They will never let you vote the money away from them.... You are dreaming!

Good post.

Good post.

Thanks Pawnstorm,

I have noticed that people here, have turned on one another lately, and it is indeed sad to see.

Dr. Paul has given us a great message, and however we see fit to spread that message should not be met with criticism from the very same people, who fought in the trenches with us.

Only fools fight in a burning house.

And I would also like to thank Michael Nystrom for creating this site.

And a special thanks to LegalizeLiberty.

I saw a lot of people criticizing LegalizeLiberty, in vicious and un-called for ways, it broke my heart.

LegalizeLiberty lived through one of the biggest fights for liberty of the 20th century, and that was when the Polish people told the soviets to go F themselves, and LegalizeLiberty was someone who didn't just talk, he got out there and stood up to the tanks and the overwhelming odds that were being pressed against the Polish people.

Few here, have the courage to do what LegalizeLiberty did.

Some of you can talk the talk, but LegalizeLiberty walked the walk.

Just sayin.

Hear Hear pawnstorm12!

Yes! LIBERTY!

Thank you for a such an encouraging post! I haven't voted yet but am looking forward to Tuesday, when for the first time in my voting life I will vote with eyes wide open!

This is a great place here at the DP where we vet ideas and each other. I have learned a lot from the generous contributions as I consider the food offered for thought.

Can't help but add this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa3HXdqNWIM as I think of your title.

Thanks Bear - That cracked me up - I needed a good laugh!

I seem to remember this from the '70's!

"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed, over-regulated, and overrun by bureaucrats. The founders would be ashamed of us for what we are putting up with."
-Ron Paul

Yes, I had one as well!

Yes, I had one as well! Thanks for the inspiration...another thing that happens here at the DP!

I'll raise my glass on Wed

"Here's to having this BS election behind us"

^ this.

^ this.

It was/is paul or no one for

It was/is paul or no one for a reason : he is the only liberty minded candidate who could beat obomney.

So many people on here forget that.

It doesn't matter if they let the libertarian party get 5%, this nation is done after this year.

God help us all.

Well to you maybe, for me that meant for the nominee...

Well you can write him in but in some states that won't even be counted. They'll never publicise it.

The point is we're all taking our different paths to liberty...

No, the path should be the

No, the path should be the same, but it was stolen from Rp by the gop, his son, Gj, and his own campaign management

+1

+1

here, here

we will not go quietly into the night ! we will continue to prick the conscience of every and any one who has an ear to hear !

LOve the R3volution

well said

I concur. I think the problem is that some are disinfo agents maybe but some do not recognize that we NEED each other. We cannot afford to lose each other

Pawnstorm, the problem you highlight....

...is what I have been trying to point out all along, in one way or another. Those who are generally interested in the restoration of liberty and/or the Constitution are only in the very beginning stages of organization. When the Ron Paul campaign was underway and showing some signs for hope here and there, the "unity" in the movement seemed more obvious, but after his withdrawal, it became apparent that this "unity" was not unity at all, but a mere confluence of "best hope" ideas from a lot of people. Those who had clamored to Ron Paul's side were quite divided upon his exit. Some chose a Paul-anyway (write-in) doctrine, while others split off to Johnson or Goode or whomever else.

As I have been saying all along, it will take a viable movement of PEOPLE to reform the nation, and not a mere campaign organization. This liberty movement, while promising, is not yet viable. By that, I mean that it does not yet have its own mind and heart and power and convictions---not as it will eventually have to have them in order to succeed. Rather, it clings to the most promising candidate, expecting him or her to be the champion who fills in whatever is lacking. This hope, however, is simply not based in reality, for it is impossible for a single person to do what all needs to be done.

It is a strategic question that has the misfortune of living in a field where all the players are only tactical thinkers at best. That is, it's a "big picture" question posed to players who are much more comfortable with considerably smaller questions such as, "for whom should I vote?" Or to state it in yet one more way, so as not to be misunderstood, the deficit I'm highlighting is this: Billy supported Ron Paul, but Ron Paul's campaign failed to make it to the general election, so Billy's next step is to decide "who should I vote for now?" Billy does NOT concern himself with questions such as:

1. Why did the campaign fail?
2. What's it going to take to get people's attention?
3. How many more supporters would have been required for it to succeed?
4. What's standing in the way?
5. How can those obstacles be removed?
6. What are the weaknesses of our existing strategy?
7. In what ways, if any, was the campaign or its message compromised?
8. What will I need to do to help?
9. How many other helpers will I have to recruit to get it done?
10. Are we just building a political campaign, or are we actually fortifying people into a self-existing movement?

We all tend to be "cognitive misers", thinking deeply only when we think we have no other choice. It is very unlikely, therefore, that many liberty supporters would ever venture to explore this many questions on their own---especially when there are temptations to jump off that cognitive train. (For example, simply hopping onto the campaign of an alternate candidate without doing any of this "math". Or even easier, putting things on hold in hopes that Ron Paul will run again in 2016.)

I maintain, however, that this sort of deep math is exactly what must be done if any viable movement is going to succeed. Liberty proponents often fall victim to a fundamental error as to the nature of this Republic. They SAY it's supposed to be a government "by the people", yet when they want reform, they don't turn to the people for that reform, but to a single candidate, hanging all their hopes on his or her success.

I will say it again: this country is so far in subjection to the interests of the ruling cartel that there is no hope of reforming it if there cannot arise a viable PHILOSOPHICAL movement from among the people. This is because fixing the mess will be so difficult and detailed that cognitive misers (who lack the deep thinking and the deep CARING about the details) will be offered far too many opportunities to jump off that train before it reaches the desired destination. Just look at how many people in the "Tea Party" got co-opted by the RNC and didn't even realize it was happening. They were given all manner of other choices that they did NOT originally have in mind when they first found themselves protesting in 2008/2009....and they were lured to be dissuaded from their original goals, while all the time thinking they were doing a good thing for participating.

There's a certain irony in the cognitive miser fussing about liberty; by his own lack of cognitive discipline, he ensures that he will never attain to the liberty he extols, for he hopes that somebody else can secure it for him. Little does he realize that he himself is the primary problem---that his own attribute substitution (substituting easy-but-dysfunctional solutions for harder-but-functional solutions) is the number one bad habit that keeps America in its ugly status quo. He complains for liberty, but fails to free his OWN mind from the fetters of laziness and unreality---things he could do for himself.

We cannot be a great Republic in SPITE of our own people; only with the aspiration of the people to higher ideals can greatness be achieved. But there is NO viable movement to this end. Not one. Candidates, no matter how bright and promising they may be, simply run for office. They do not build public paradigm shifts, but rather, they appeal to the public AS IT IS wishing simply for a vote. Changing public paradigms is simply not their business.

Meanwhile, the churches, whose rhetoric SEEMS to be all about building a people of high ideals, constantly fail to inspire their own to break free of cognitive miserliness. For whatever the reasons may be, they are generally doing more harm than good in this regard, for their people generally deem themselves to be enlightened and well-informed when they are exactly the opposite. ("If you make people think they are thinking, they will love you, but if you really make them think, they will hate you." Don Marquis)

Another prime example of this same phenomenon is the political talk audiences. They THINK they are thinking as they listen to their champions, but they are not REALLY thinking, for they rarely see the fallacies in the rhetoric.

And yet another example, ironically, can be found in many of the liberty supporters. Having attained a higher ideal than most, many fall victim to assuming that they have aspired far enough already, and that no further learning, growth, wisdom, etc. on their parts will be necessary for success.

And so sits America, puffed up in her own mind and doing not one percent of the thinking she THINKS she's doing. She prides herself in finding a clever and easy way out---such as is promised by finding an exceptional candidate for office. But there is no easy solution to such a massive and complex problem. There are two ways out:

1. Change the paradigms of the people.
2. Find a benevolent dictator who will seize all control and rule the people justly, in spite of their own unwillingness to aspire to higher character in their own right.

Interestingly, the latter is almost universally deemed by Americans to be too dangerous as benevolent dictators seem unlikely to exist (for long, at least). And the former is rarely even considered for a moment. Hence, the quarreling you cite.

The stark reality is that the success of liberty depends on MUCH more than the success of a single political campaign, but most miss this fact in the excitement of the campaign. After a loss, they lick their wounds or complain for two years, and then they begin to look for a champion for the next go-round. They never realize that their own efforts are insufficient to achieve the goals they envision. It is, therefore, much more an exercise in wishing than in calculated building.

Jack

I agree!

Amen.

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"Stop all the damn quarreling!!"

Yes dad....

/makes alternative plans to involve a shower, a plugged in electrical device and a miniature guillotine

Don't make me come up there, you kids!

OR

If you kids don't stop fighting we will just drive home and forget about this election!

.

.

Ron Paul didn't lose

His ideas have made a place in the minds of millions.

That was his goal.

We are now talking about the real issues.

So is the MSN. They have to.

ecorob's picture

i get so mad sometimes...

I could just cuss. I'm sorry.

I love you man.

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

Woo-hoo!!

Great call!

Obedience to God is resistance to tyrants.

I couldn't agree more

There should never be any arm twisting in the name of liberty.
People either get it or they don't.
Those of us that do understand the true meaning of free will understand this fact very well and respect individual liberty.
And we should ALL recognize and respect the right of everyone to their own opinion as well as their own personal decisions.
I will be voting for Gary Johnson for good reason.
And as you will note in my signature, I am a Ron Paul or not at all guy.
My voting for Gary has become the right thing to do in my book now here in the state of Ohio. But that's me, and because of where I live. I am not out attacking anyone for writing in Ron Paul or voting for ANYONE else. Though I have been getting attacked myself a lot from ALL directions.
Know what I say about that?
Half of a peace sign backwards. Guess which half. Nyuk-nyuk-nyuk.
LIVE FREE

Governor Gary Johnson for President NE Ohio Campaign Rally
Gary Johnson campaign rally on 11-2-2012
(1) http://youtu.be/nn0UvaPa62M
(2) http://youtu.be/tIRzqhrsVb8
(3) http://youtu.be/GQMnYLsDDDY

RAND PAUL or NOT AT ALL

What is the game plan if Romney wins 2012?

If we're all here for liberty, how will we bring a liberty-minded candidate forward with divided votes?

Let's face it, until we unite as one, it will never happen and we don't deserve liberty.

There will not be another Ron Paul

But I do believe 'somebody' will emerge that could fill the void. Though I have no idea who that person could be at this point.
Too many of the people I expected 'could' have moved to the lead position have fallen short over the last year. Many people I held a lot of respect for either endorsed Romney or turned me off in some other way. We will just have to let the dust settle and see what comes of it.

RAND PAUL or NOT AT ALL

Steve

You're a good guy and all that jazz...I really have no beef with you. In fact, I want to thank you for before the primaries.

Ron Paul is unique. But there ARE others like him. Justin Amash, for one. And, you guys are pulling for Rupert, I HOPE.

I know first hand the frustration that you have with others supporting romney, I was caught up in that when we needed them most. Same scenario applies here.

In a perfect world with bunnies and butterflies I might agree with your post above. GJ may be for you, but he is not for me. Some of his policy perpetuates what I oppose, for starters. For this movement to succeed, we MUST show cohesion, now and later. To get back to the point of bunnies and butterflies, there is reason we elect a president. It is to hopefully elect 'some ONE' who holds our values to our nation and our citizens. Otherwise, the point of presidency becomes moot. In order to fulfill that task, there are times when we all must unite behind that person. The person chosen for this task was Ron Paul, NOT GJ. Therefore, I feel that we must complete this task before moving on to the next.

There. I got that off of my chest. Rather than give me half of a peace sign, I hope to see you again soon (there's a Campaign for Liberty booth set up this weekend). If you aren't whipped from this election and still have a pulse, I will need your help again. Things are streamlined now, we can work smarter, quicker, and behind the scenes. I have a select group of people who will NOT turn their backs. I hope that you remain one of them. 2016 will NOT be a replay of 2008 or 12, or I will have something else beside half of a peace sign to show.

You can be tough and still have a heart. That's what wins things.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul