83 votes

The Morning After on Morning Joe : Country is becoming more libertarian

Joe Scarborough got it right...the morning after:


"I've been noticing it on the campaign trail...the country is becoming more libertarian..."

"You know what...there are A LOT of Ron Paul supporters, there are A LOT of libertarians... And believe it or not, there are a lot of fiscally conservative gay and lesbians who would support a Republican."

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just because you're gay or

just because you're gay or had an abortion is no reason to be unproductive! You can get more done without a kid on your back or chasing' woman...pretty liberated id say!!!

Don't hate the player, hate the game!!!

I like how they have percentage

of women and men who voted for romney versus obama


this knowledge comes from BEV Harris

exiting polling was not done as it was in elections before
the LAME STREAM MEDIA based numbers on PRE POLLING



"He's this eccentric Ghandi-Like figure that you cant touch with the normal bribes that people respond to."
the man Doug Wead on DR. RON PAUL

Live audience??

Is that just an election special thing? or is that the new format for every show? think the former...but live audiences are cool..wish more new talk shows would do that!

More libertarian?!?

We just elected Hugo Chavez...uh....I mean Obama as president. Both the welfare poor and the rich corporations are dependent on government handouts, and anyone who threatens to take it away is voted out of office. We are in sorry shape. We have a mob-ocracy that is very far from libertarian.

We all want progress, but if you're on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive.

-C. S. Lewis


Here is a better quality video, perhaps the one in original post could be replaced with this link:


Immoral funding of Military Industrial Complex by Federal Reserve and US taxation system must stop!!!! End illegal/unconstitutional wars! Preserve US currency!

I saw this post about animosity for Joe and no, I WANT HIS JOB!

Hi heya howdy and here's the bimbo! Laugh for me babe but seriously I'm Morning Joe and how about the bwibbertariwhats? Or something? What do these people want, hey the country is turning into liberwhatians, laugh babe, shake 'em ok now we're going to commercial but when we come back, I mean what? Liberwhatthehoops wanna believe in free whatever cool hey, I'm Morning Joe! Shake 'em baby, waka waka waka! More when we return.

There is nothing strange about having a bar of soap in your right pocket, it's just what's happening.

I see a lot of animosity toward Joe Scarborough...

...but whatever you think of him (I personally have no strong feelings one way or the other), the important point is that the MSM is recognizing finally that the only path forward for the GOP is in a libertarian direction. This is not the time to get hostile with Republicans. Their crushing defeat last night means they are in the process of rethinking the future of the party. This is not the time to alienate them from us. We need to remind them why they lost, and what they need to do win in the future (i.e. incorporate libertarians into the party), and we need to be civil while doing so, otherwise they'll ignore us. This is a pivotal moment. The GOP is either going to learn the proper lesson and shift in our direction, or draw the wrong lesson and move toward the Democratic party. The next few months we have to work as hard as possible to make sure the former happens, not the latter. Make them feel like we're interested in the success of the GOP in the future (which we are, so far as it's the success of Liberty), like we're all on one team. This is a time to build bridges, not burn them.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

Your Post Shows That You're Still Asleep

You're 100% correct that we need to teach republicans (and democrats) the message of liberty and why it's important. However, your comment that "the MSM is recognizing finally that the only path forward for the GOP is in a libertarian direction" shows you're still asleep to what's really going on.

Watch the video again. The hosts say some of the right things (fiscal conservatism, social tolerance) but then they COMPLETELY co-opt the message by saying that the "solution" to the problem is Jeb Bush. ARE THEY FREAKIN' KIDDING ME?!?!?

The MSM is a propaganda machine. Nothing more and nothing less. It is there to brainwash the masses into accepting the status quo. You know how you sometimes see posts on the DP how "there are so many more of us than them". Well TPTB understand that too and they need a way to control the population to do the things that are in THEIR interest. But they do so in a way that makes Joe Citizen think that it's actually in Joe Citizen's best interest.

The threat of a foreign enemy is an extremely effective mechanism. Americans are afraid of terrorism so much that we didn't only agree to give up our freedom, we begged the government for it! Did we really need to go into Iraq? Or were we masterfully manipulated into a 10 year war that made TPTB untold fortunes (remember that war is extremely profitable for some).

The MSM is owned by like 5 corporations and they're not going to be "convinced" of anything. You can, however, convince (aka "wake up") Joe Citizen and THAT is what we need to do.

I'm fully aware...

...that the MSM hates us as much as ever, and will continue to try to co-opt the movement. They are recognizing our importance not because they're suddenly sympathetic, but because they have to, because it's now simply too obvious to ignore. That's a good thing, a sign of progress. It's good that the masses are hearing about the influence of libertarianism, MSM attempts at co-option not withstanding.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

Fair Enough

I apologize if I came off as being rude to you. All of us Ron Paul supporters are in this together of course. We all have to check each other to make sure the establishment doesn't throw us off course. Laser beam focus is our only hope.

Jeb Bush?!?!?

David Gregory and Joe Scarborough both brought up Jeb Bush as an example of a fiscal conservative and social moderate. For eff's sake, I'd vote for Joe Biden before I'd vote for another Bush into the White House. That family is as crooked as it gets. What a choice to co-opt the message with. The MSM is sickening!

REALLY - America wants Libertarianism???

Seems to me America wants the JUDGEMENT OF God!!!

DOWNVOTE ME PLEASE! - "If Mitt Romney and the Republican Party would just give HEARTY APPROVAL to abortion and homosexual marriage, they would WIN more races!" Is this really the underlying message of Ron Paul? We will add virtue and excellence to our FREE society if we would just understand and embrace MORE abortion and homosexuality?

Wisconsin's Tammy Baldwin is first openly gay person elected to Senate

If you DARE - take a half hour and listen to the sermon for crying out loud!: I would bet my LIFE, the Christian, Ron Paul AGREES with with me that the Democrat Party platform is a stain on this society; that John MacArthur's statement about the Democrat Party and their OPEN platform of killing innocent babies in the womb, and BOTH men and women committing ABOMINATION between themselves in OPEN immorality is anti-God and NOT GOOD for us!

HOW DID WE GET HERE as a Republic?


I will NOT be collectively associated with the haters of God in a political party, I will not be called a libertarian...tolerance is our LAST BREATH before swift judgment!

Liberty(root word of libertarianism) is for the express purpose of allowing creativity, freedom, trust and prosperity to flourish when government is OFF OUR BACK - but NONE of those GOOD things come to a society who shakes its fist in God's face and says we don't want YOU or your LAWS about the natural order of things!

Go ahead and "go for the numbers", bring/welcome/embrace the homosexuals, crossdressers, and "choice" haters of God into the Republican Party - just keep ignoring the Creator who is higher than Caesar!

The Republicans have already LIED incessantly and REFUSE to shrink the size and scope of government...Republicans are already MODERATES on abortion, and are cowards regarding how unnatural it is for men to be with men, and women to be with with women - they just want to hand out more STATE LICENSES to control their assets!

I am being told that "we" are winning; and if I would just release myself from my NARRROW worldview, and lock arms with the haters of God for a good cause; we will win political POWER...not worth the cost, this nation is already sex-crazed, openly homosexual, and beyond its ability to pay its ridiculous debts...this nation is already under the judgment of God; it is not a blindness about Ron Paul's "goodness" - it has a blindness about God's actual EXISTENCE, and record of intervening BOTH positively when He is honored and reverenced, as well as catastrophically when He is ignored and slighted and His Word/people are dismissed/mocked in human history!

I cannot compromise - and the Republicans who embrace these haters of God are equally on their way to HELL when they die!

All I heard is "give the sinners what they want and they will come to our party, and vote for our party next election!" - yeah, give us our VICES and SIN, and print more money and hand that out too! - what a GREAT country we have become!!!

Seriously; listen to the sermon and GET THE PICTURE!

I agree.

I agree.

I agree

But as RC Sproul has said, and I agree with what he said, it's believers that bring down nations. Nonbelievers will always do what they do.

Speaking of which, I think it's no coincidence that America began its downward slide when the "this is the end of the world/armageddon is near" stuff infiltrated the Church. As a result, I think many, if not most, professing Christians in the GOP have been voting for Trotskyites for decades now and have rejected the few God-fearing, Constitution-respecting, trustworthy candidates such as Ron Paul (Exodus 18:21).

If these Christians who keep electing neocons don't start being Bereans again, we're finished as a nation.

wolfe's picture


Fine, you are against those things. Now let me ask you a question. Do you believe it is the role of the government to enforce your chosen moral code, or is it your duty to teach and spread your message and convince others to follow you based on your actions and teaching and that of your religion?

If you believe it is the role of the government, then indeed you are in the wrong place. If you think it is your personal duty and government is neither necessary or good at deciding and enforcing a specific moral and religious code, and that it is your personal responsibility to teach your way, then you might be in the right place.

You need to focus on the difference between having a belief and peacefully teaching people (as Jesus did in the bible), or deciding to make everyone obey at the end of a gun (government).

I think I know which one your religion would condone, do you?

The Philosophy Of Liberty -

perhaps you should LISTEN/WATCH the sermon...

...God instituted government because sinful man MUST be restrained to some degree, for his GOOD...thus, the role of government is to PUNISH evil, but, don't be naive and think the government will not become the perpetrator of evil BECAUSE they choose NOT to obey He whom instituted it for GOOD in the first place...

The word is JUDGMENT; and since each man has in himself/herself BOTH conscience and creation revelation that God exists, they KNOW(at least the overwhelming majority knows) killing babies is WRONG, and homosexuality is unnatural - so - for the Democrats to push it, and to have this ilk wet themselves over the prospect that libertarians who think the same ought to be embraced by the "needed to be reformed" Republican Party in order to gain political power, is the epitome of God-hating foolishness...

I've had enough of this libertarian JOKE...

Ron Paul, Ron Paul, Ron Paul - give us the STATESMAN Ron Paul - minus the General Principles of Christianity of course, because we don't believe he derived at his policy positions through a thoughful process of knowing how the Creator God(or our nation's founders) think we ought to act towards people in other nations, or, our own citizens while collecting taxes(at gunpoint, I might add!)

MOST OF THEM believed in a Supreme Being; you call them fools? Then call Ron Paul a fool as well - enough with the charade!

Unless you can PROVE than man alone created and instituted government, after evolving over millions of years from ape-like ancestors, and all this DEATH, KILLING, LYING, BANKRUPTCY is evidence of our "getting better"; you should honestly research MY beliefs a little better...

Jesus "teaching peacefully"??...Read Matthew 23; condemnation and a threat of spending eternity in HELL is a heatlhy part of the Gospel message; the GOOD NEWS is that individuals can be SAVED from that wrath - of course I know that upsets our modern theology that teaches "God is our buddy, and doesn't judge; He just forgives"

The "preaching" we Christians do is a WARNING; and ya know what...just like they shut up/stoned/ran off the old testament prophets just before judgement came; the people just DON'T want to hear it!!!

wolfe's picture


It is up to you to judge and demand punishment?

The last time I checked, that role was reserved to your god, in your religion.

So, shall we start stoning women who do not remove themselves from polite society while on their period? Who decides which rules should still be obeyed, and which ones should be ignored?

The ONLY indication for your weird belief system that government is somehow implemented by God is Romans 13. And I am not going to go into detail about Paul's role in the Bible, or the way the Bible was constructed, since knowledge is apparently not what you are interested in.

But for the record, I have read the Bible cover to cover multiple times when I was Christian, and researched and understood it... Which largely explains why I am an atheist. But I can guarantee that if you want to have a theological discussion, I can do so.

Religion is between you and your god, and/or your god's representatives. How does forcing me, against my will to obey your beliefs improve your relationship with your god?

I imagine you would get credit with your god if you convinced me. But simply holding a gun to my head to remove my freewill, doesn't give me a place in your heaven, nor does it improve your own standing.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -

and so...

...you, like Hitler, believe Christianity is the most fatal and seductive lie to ever befall upon mankind; and that I have fallen for this ruse?

Tell me, will all your superior knowledge from now being admittingly "outside" Christianity - what was in that "cup" when Jesus was sweating blood in the garden of Gethsemane saying "take it away"?

There is no God, no Jesus rose from the dead, and there is no literal hell where souls will be in torment for eternity - correct? Therefore, our founding was NOT a refutation of any "evil" perpetrated upon the Christian colonists by their Christian parent government; but rather what then?

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth - excellent position ... you go on with the political solution, I'll concern myself with the souls of men.

wolfe's picture


Do you listen to yourself speak? You put words into my mouth, or in words you may relate to, "bear false witness" against me.

And are simply factually incorrect on most of your statements.

First, Hitler was a christian and made numerous positive references to his faith. Though most christians would like to ignore this, your own faith teaches belief and acceptance is salvation and forgiveness for sins (the reference you mention to the crucifixion). So, if you are right, then you will be dining with Hitler and I will be dining with Nietzsche. I prefer the company in my location, if indeed there is a christian afterlife.

In addition, Romans 13 as you would interpret it (governments ordained by god), Hitler was a just ruler because god chose him, as he does all rulers.

As far as the crucifixion story, which one would you like to discuss, because all four major gospels tell the story differently.

If you were concerned about the souls of men, you would be trying to persuade and teach, as I suggest, instead of forcing them to behave according to your specific variety of beliefs.

Please read this before ever mentioning Hitler or Nazis again and save us both some time: http://www.fallacyfiles.org/adnazium.html

The Philosophy Of Liberty -

ahhaha I see the BIBLE

ahhaha I see the BIBLE THUMPERS are big on typing like DRAMATIC IDIOTS.

I think...

...you should re-read his post. It appears you misunderstood it.

AND more socialist -- at the same time

The polarity is building!

What did Scotty used to say to Kirk? "I don't know how much more the engines can take, Capn! I think they're gonna blow!"

Bill of Rights /Amendment X: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Do you need a politician or judge to "interpret" those 28

Joe Scarborough Is A Total Fraud

I know he voted for Ron Paul and there's also a YouTube video where he effusively praised Dr. Paul about his predictions. However, watch the video below. It's my gut feeling that Joe Scarborough believes in this movement (maybe he's influenced by his son, who he once mentioned is a Ron Paul fan) but he SOLD OUT for his TV program.

We cannot EVER forget those who put the knife in the back of this movement. As far as I'm concerned Joe Scarborough is an enemy, not a friend.


Absolutely zero credibility

There are a lot of so called conservatives mouthing pro liberty crap after their RINO was tanked. Can't start too soon with the lies trying to rehab the big state zionist GOP into.... ta da!!...the party of small government and fiscal conservatism for 2016. Works like a charm every 4 years.
Anyone idiotic to believe that voting does a damn thing deserves their enslavement.

Doesn't it benefit us more to

Doesn't it benefit us more to just be happy that they finally start to come around publicly?

I am not suggesting trusting them to watch your first-born son, or your back. But holding out grudges even after people come around to expressing a better way of thinking is counter productive.

Instead of holding on to the sour grapes even after the neocons got trounced, it seems to be a better policy is to feed the morning-after bout of sanity in some elements of the GOP and media, balloon it up, and make sure it doesnt die out this time.

Morning after sanity???!!!

Did you read my post? They are starting the same old bait and switch, hoping we'll believe their lies and pandering, that they are "coming around", THIS time voting and particpating will work, Rand is just like his dad so vote for him, blah, blah.
Reminds me of Lucy yanking the football out from in front of Charlie Brown. And he falls for it every time.
To answer your queestion, no, it's not "sour grapes" to learn from your mistakes and know that the pee running down your leg ain't rain.

I'm glad to read your post.

I'm glad to read your post. I was thinking the same thing while watching the video. The cycle that still has most Baby Boomers fooled has begun anew. It took me paying attention to twelve years of politics to see the pattern yet my 60+ year old elders fall for the same tricks every four years.

These news shows buried that type of talk when Ron Paul was in the race. Now they got their puppet secured into office so they're going to throw us a bone for two years before the campaigning starts all over again. They may just brand one of their statists as a Libertarian-like Republican. Aaagh, that would torture me.

So if its a bait and switch,

So if its a bait and switch, call it as such at the time.

Endless cynicism and vitriol will only get us so far. In the age of YouTube, the punditry saying intelligent things just becomes ammo and propaganda material for us if/when they flip flop.

Too many people caught up in being spiteful for the sake of being spiteful to see the big picture.

Oh - and I keep saying people referring to the term "this time" , as if the establishment anything has even admitted libertarian thought into the "mainstream" at any time in the past several decades.

I keep seeing people referring to this all over this site, as if establishment pols or pundits had pretended to be libertarian then pulled a fast one.. resulting in some justifiable animosity. Except... libertarianism has pretty much been completely shut out of mainstream discussion for decades, other than the occasional snark from the MSM - there has been no grand bait and switch conspiracy... The only thng close was Bush who talked about a humble foreign policy then switched, but he was 1) a Bush so everyone should have known better and 2) not at all libertarian in any other form.

It's not that they had

It's not that they had pretended to be Libertarian in past cycles. They simply pretended to be the brand that was desired by "The People" during any given cycle. This time it may likely be in a Libertarian flavor as that would bring the needed swing voters, minorities and young adults.

Sure, welcome to politics.

Sure, welcome to politics.

That doesn't change the fact that more MSM outlets parroting our talking points, instead of neocon talking points is a good thing.

Seriously, when it comes to gaining new members for the movement, gaining more mindshare amongst the electorate in general and advancing the cause - what is better:

1) MSM talking about how the neocons lost because they didnt warmonger and trump up drug war enough

2) Talk about how maybe the country is becoming more libertarian after all, and maybe people who want to win should lay off the big govt.

Ofc there will be usurpation attempts by the likes of Jeb Bush and Co. - that was to be expected in any case where the movement gained continued success. Those challenges will need to be addressed and fought one at a time, as they arise.

I just dont like it when the movement acts like the neocons, and has nothing but vitriol for anyone or anything that isnt one of "us". Refraining from increasing hostility against others outside our camp who become more friendly with our cause, is a step towards not acting like a neocon. We are growing, but to make real progress and implement real change within the next few years in time to possibly save this wreck of a country, we will need alliances and positive engagement with "outsiders" whom we do not 100% agree with but can find common ground with whether we like it or not.

This starts by not shooting down anyone from other camps who dares to indicate that we may in fact have had a point, despite not being one of "us".