5 votes

How to teach someone who doesn't want to be taught *UPDATED*

Update:

Veterans Day today. I was feeling down. How dare anyone fly a flag in honor of our veterans! They fought and risked their lives...all gave some and some gave all. We owe it to them to elect our leaders responsibly. We owe them a constitutionally sound government. We owe it to them to fight for what they fought for.

So I told my friend that I thought she was ignorant for voting for Obama. She said I take politics too seriously and she was not a political person. I told her that perhaps she should not vote if she doesn't take politics seriously. I asked her how she can justify placing an uneducated vote? I told her that she was part of the problem. She said she had to let me go.

If there was one law I wish our government would pass it would be an IQ law for voting. There I said it! Stupid people should not be allowed to vote.

*************************************************************************************************************************************

I have a friend. She is very non political. If ever I try to engage in a political conversation with her, she quickly changes subjects to something of an "easy" subject. It really hit me one night about 8 months ago when I was trying to explane to her the message Dr. Paul and tried to engage her in the Liberty movement. On a side note, I'd like to add that she is my age...lower 30 something...my assumption is that the message of liberty is much easier to teach among my generation as we haven't yet had years of influence and bad habits as some of the older folks. Also, the idea of a movement seems exciting and adventitious to us youngens.

Anyway...I sensed frustration in her tone but I kept pressing and asking her questions...not to be pushy but rather to engage her. It all ended when she said in a fit of frustration "I don't believe in the Constitution". Whaaaaat? I've never heard of such an obseb thing! I was shocked and quite frankly disturbed. I didn't know what to say.

It was that moment on I realized this women did not want to be taught.

I hadn't given up on her completely though. For the next 8 months I would sneak in some educational facts bit by bit...hoping I would strike something deep in her heart. Anticipating and patiently waiting but never hitting that note.

I've tried different angles and different tones and different subjects and still I have achieved zilch. I was going nowhere.

But then I got to thinking. My friend was adopted at a very young age and raised by a loving family in a suburb in America. She was adopted right out of North Korea which to my understanding has been under dictatorship for many ages.

Most Americans have a yearning for freedom and Liberty. It is hard wired into us whether you know it or not...it is there. That is why the Liberty movement is growing so fast. It's like an awakening. We just needed to be reminded of where we came from. Our roots stem back from our founding fathers so naturally the word Liberty strikes a chord with us. Liberty is the foundation of America and only Liberty will lead us to a prosperous nation once again.

Being non political...my friend did manage to make it to the voting booth on November 6th. She voted for Mr. Obama.

Could my friends roots be the cause of her apathy? Or am I reading into this too much?

In the aftermath of the election, I found myself motivated more than ever to keep the keep at it. With the GOP in such a vulnerable state, I find myself committed to see it through and help rebuild it. I vow to educate and motivate and grow this movement to a victory in 2016. Education is the key and Liberty is the teacher.

But how do we teach those who refuse to be taught?

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IQ test

for people before having children

Yup! And I'm am making damned

Yup! And I'm am making damned sure I am implementing responsible parenting with my kids. those of us in our childbearing ages are raising freedom fighters of the next generation!

This might give some insights.

Why try ? I practice High

Why try ? I practice High Probability Selling, only focusing on those most likely to "buy" Most others are a waste of my time.

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere".
--Voltaire

It's hard not to be a menace to society when half the population is happy on their knees. - unknown

But are we missing out on a

But are we missing out on a huge voting block?

They'll come around when they

They'll come around when they do. Until then, wake up the wakeable. And FWIW, how's that whole voting thing working for us?

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere".
--Voltaire

It's hard not to be a menace to society when half the population is happy on their knees. - unknown

Yeah...they'll come around

Yeah...they'll come around some day when it is too late.

It's already too late....

"We're so far gone. We're over the cliff," the Texas Republican (Ron Paul) told Bloomberg Television's "In the Loop" program. "We cannot get enough people in Congress in the next 5-10 years who will do wise things."
.
http://www.dailypaul.com/262347/drudge-top-right-column-ron-...

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.
Friedrich Nietzsche

I think he is right. It's

I think he is right. It's like a freight train.

jrd3820's picture

To answer your last question;

To answer your last question; you don't. If someone refuses to be "taught" then you let it go. I have two sisters, my older sister wouldn't leave the democratic party if I paid her a million dollars to do so. My younger sister approached me and asked me about different options for this election and I guided her in the direction of the libertarian option. I also did not teach her anything I showed her an option and she liked it.

I think when you use the word teach you are implying too much. Very few people can be taught to change their political views, but a lot of people are open to new ideas every now and then.

I have a friend who I never would have thought would even consider anything other than the democrats, but this year he voted straight libertarian ticket after months of political converstion between him and I. I never pushed anything or made him watch this or that, we simply talked about ideas, I told him about my ideas and the libertarian idea and he came around.

Both my parents voted Obama.

Both my parents voted Obama. One of my sisters lives off the system and hasn't had a job in over 10 years and my other sister doesn't vote because she hates politics. Where the hell did I come from?!

My hole family refuses to talk politics with me. I don't believe I am being pushy. For the most part I just ask them questions about what they believe. It's hopeless. I feel like I live in a bubble.

jrd3820's picture

Lol, they are your family and

Lol, they are your family and you love them anyway!

It is awsome that you see through the wall and are passionate about it. You will find people to talk to about it, libertarianism is on the rise and young people will be coming our way, I can gurantee it.

We just do not want to teach anyone how or what to vote for... We will leave the teaching of who or what to vote for to fox news and msnbc.

You are right. I do love

You are right. I do love them. Unconditionally. But I'm losing patience with my friend. It's kind of like when you grow up and grow apart because of different lifestyles or what ever. I think I have outgrown her. I realize this as I have grown more and more impatient with her. Sure wish I could take her with me.

jrd3820's picture

IT is so common to outgrow

IT is so common to outgrow friends. I am 28 and recently outgrew a friend about 2 years ago. Actually sounds like for simiilar reasons. It was not ebcause she dismissed the idea of libertarianism, it was because she was so vacant about anything dealing with politics.

How old are you? This is what I promise you, the young people will be coming to Ron Paul and the idea of libertarianism in mass numbers within the next few years. You will find like minded people to talk to about problems and solutions.

The conernc is that they are not scared away by apocolyptic fear mongering craziness, finger pointin, or name calling. Be respectful to these people, and it will all fall in place.

I am 32. Thanks for asking!

I am 32. Thanks for asking! Now I feel old.

jrd3820's picture

We can do this

Lol, I thought you were young for some reason. Still, do not worry about the ones you cannot change. I swear people are coming our way and the only way we will not have a huge massive impact on the future of our goverment is if we self destruct by fighting with each other or pushing away new voters by saying they are not libertarian enough because they believe in one thing you may or may not believe in. We will push them away by screaming apocolyptic fear monerging messages in their face and telling them Obama is a communist or the GOP duped them into voting for Romney.

What is our message? These

What is our message? These people believe the government is suppose to take care of everyone. Their whole idea of what is right is so obscured! Try explaning to soneone on foodstamps that they should vote for the libertarian ideas.This is why we can't reach out to them. It seriously makes me want to vomit in my mouth! It's not that they don't know that what they take from the government comes from us. They know it! They just don't care. They think it is their right. They don't care about NDAA or the constitution as long as the government is feeding them. This is just a small faction of what we are up against.

jrd3820's picture

Liberty and Freeedom!

Our message is freedom and liberty! Who can argue with that?! Lol, no, I know what you mean, but first of all I gurantee not all democrats are on some kind of assistance. My Mom is a democrat and would not take assistance if her life depended on it. She is all for cutting social programs drastically. What she is not for is more wars and international agression and huge social government. We can get young people to agree with ending wars and international agression. We can get young people to agree to government backing out of people's social choices. Look what happened in CO and WA this time around, they told the federal government to leave them alone if they wanna smoke a little pot.

The thing that is scary about libertarian ideals to some democrats is living without goverment assistance, and I agree that is a hard oen to make someone move on, however, if we get them here thinking about anti war and anti huge social government let the economics speak for themselves. I did not understand economics until I watched a few Ron Paul videos. I recently wrote my BA thesis on economic dystopias through the eyes of literature, and I am working on my masters thesis on the history of various opposing economic systems through the eyes of literature and actual historical dystopias. I went from uneducated in economics to studying the history of economic systems at a masters level simply because I watched a few Ron Paul vids. I watched them after agreeing with his other messages that really are quite popular.

Tried that message. Didn't

Tried that message. Didn't work. The good news is that they can't unhear what they heard. Perhaps I've done all I could and in time they will have an "aha" moment.

jrd3820's picture

Thats what I am saying, we

Thats what I am saying, we will not win all of them, but I am 100% certain that in the next four years people absolutely will be coming our way, then you can talk to those people who are kind of interested in this thing called libertarianism and get them hooked on the messages that most people can agree on. Let the economics speak for themselves.

You are not alone, and in the enxt few years you will be even less alone. I gurantee it. The only way people will be afraid to accept the idea behind the libertarian movement is if we push them away.

I don't believe in the

I don't believe in the constitution either I believe in freedom! While the constitution has some good principles in it look what it has led to.

The whole idea that some group of people have authority over the rest is the root of all our problems. Besides the federal government acts almost completely outside its scope of constitutional authority anyway.

I agree that returning to the constitution would be better then the phony democracy the oligarchy has set up. However it is not the be all end all of liberty it is still a means of denying liberty to a large extent.

In answer to your question; you can't teach someone who doesn't want to be taught period so quit trying. Why do you feel that you must change your friends way of thinking? Just be her friend and don't worry about it.

Now that you have tried to push her every little hint you think you are giving just reinforces her resistance to you. She is just reacting emotionally now so no amount of reason and logic will make a difference.

Your best chance of influencing her now is to just be her friend unconditionally quite trying to teach her and earn her respect. Then maybe some day her respect for you might allow her to consider why you are such a staunch liberty advocate.

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End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

Because I don't think I can

Because I don't think I can handle another conversation about shoes or what Kim Kardashion did. I fear for her life! I want to help her.

But perhaps you are correct.

Movies

I'm looking for a particular moving movie about the Communist Youth of China.. until I do find it, I will suggest another movie: "To Live", goes through a 4 decade period, she may like the movie. It's very good at showing some of the traps that heppen to people, and the movie is besed on fact.

This documentary is very good and is not shown in China http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O8z3g0HANA, warning, this documentary may upset you and her very much, but it is fact.

The Sent Down Girl <- the movie

Please read my update on my

Please read my update on my post.

Good Question

This is a tough one. I have faced the same problem many times. The most luck I have ever had with the "semi-educated" was to explain the different philosophies of collectivism vs individualism. That seems to work.

But for the very uneducated/hopeless, (such as your friend) I've recently had some luck explaining it in terms that they seem to understand. Collectivism. Now hear me out on this one.

I explain to them that the "super rich" (or the 1%) control the government. Therefore if you ask for more government or more laws then you are giving more authoritarian power to the "super rich".

I also explain to them that the "super rich (or the 1%) also control the educational system and the media. This is what makes it easy to fool the "poor" and the "uneducated" because they don't understand history and economics.

An example of this would be the story of Robin Hood. I explain that this story is a creation of the "super rich" to fool the "poor" into believing in redistribution of wealth.

I'm sure you can come up with more examples along this thread, but you get the basic idea.

You will rarely change a mind in one session, but over time you will definitely be able to do it by being non-confrontational and planting a few seeds at a time.

Try on the same shoe, see if it fits.

"But how do we teach those who refuse to be taught?"

Test one:

1.
Is The Constitution the source of authority?

2.
What was the intent behind the people called The Federalists, such as Alexander Hamilton, during the process of replacing The Articles of Confederation with The Constitution?

3.
Is Liberty the abdication of individual sovereignty?

In Test one it is my intention to test the Topic Starter to see exactly who has the "needs to know something" shoe on.

I read:
"I don't believe in the Constitution"

I thought that the person speaking those words may know a bit more than the person who is supposedly doing the teaching.

Then I read that the person who supposedly does not "believe" in the Constitution was in debt. To who is this person in debt? If this person is in debt in this country, then she may want to KNOW more about that Constitution made by those Federalists, such as Alexander Hamilton, because, in their own words, they set out to create National Debt, and therefore a "belief" in the Constitution is not required.

Then I read that the person who is supposedly being taught in this case is a person who "voted" for Obama.

What happened to the supposed disbelief in the Constitution?

Victims of fraud are known, knowable, and accurately testable, accurately measurable to be in said condition, so that may be an angle by which a person can offer evidence of said condition, in case, just in case, the person in question gains the power required inside to be IN Liberty.

Knowing the difference between true authority and lies, such as a false choice between evil one and evil two, may be something worth doing in any case whatsoever.

How did you fare in the test?

Would you care to try out Test 2?

Joe

Her problem is more from

Her problem is more from apathy. I think she just wanted to end the conversation because she felt overwhelmed. And end the conversation she did.

Are you so sure?

How can you be so confident in knowing what another person thinks?

Is it as possible that the person you speak of is merely frightened and therefore the responses are intending to censor the information that frightens her?

What do you think is the honest truth about someone voting for Obama?

1.
They want to kill more brown people so as to keep gas prices lower.

2.
They want to take more power from people who have already stolen a lot of power and they want to use that power, taken back, to make everyone pay more taxes, so that that loot can then be used to save the children, or whatever lie sounds good. They want. They want. They want, and this is how they get what they want, supposedly, by voting.

3.
They are scared to death about the obvious fact that in some place, in this world, people are being tortured and murdered, in prisons, in drug raids, by gangs roaming the streets, some with uniforms, some without uniforms, in hospitals, in schools, in theaters, violence erupting all over, and when someone offers a vague solution to those fearful things the scared people take that choice to be a workable way to avoid personal suffering. Vote for me and save the children - or some such lie.

Here have my vote, and I can buy a ticket to move me further back in the line that is swiftly going to hell on earth, please.

A person that can say they do not believe in the constitution one minute and then vote in a National election the next minute is a person that may very well be infected with duplicity, which can be a very crippling condition of existence, very poor, very weak, and very vulnerable to exploitation by people who do know better.

Misunderstanding, false conviction, and punishment without any attempt on your part to know better about her actual condition, is possible - yes or no?

I don't know, so I offer competitive viewpoints that may help in understanding, or help in knowing better.

"Her problem is more from apathy."

If you are so confident in that conclusion, then consider, please, speaking to her, and then report here, right here, what she says to you after you tell her that her problem is more from apathy.

This can be a test of your capacity to know better about your confidence in your conclusions.

"Her problem is more from apathy."

So you say to her: "Your problem IS more from apathy."

She then says, yes, you are right. Yes or no?

If, on the other hand, you can't get her to speak honestly, then, and again, you may be dealing with someone who is infected with duplicity, which is very crippling, as the infected individual is approaching the condition known as a pathological liar, someone so deeply infected with duplicity as to then be incapable of telling the truth.

If that is not the case, not even close, then you can guess what she will confess, honestly, to be her problem, and then report her actual words, without need of you serving as interpreter, or without you being authorized to tell anyone what IS in her own mind.

How does that sound?

Is it me, or is it the message?

What inspires someone to shoot the messenger?

"I think she just wanted to end the conversation because she felt overwhelmed."

That sounds much more like a genuine interest on your part to know better, rather than to judge the person without trial.

What is the source of these feelings of being overwhelmed?

"And end the conversation she did."

Some people are very good at some things while not being very good at other things, and therefore the feeling of being overwhelmed can be understood in that context?

What kind of person says this:

"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it."
Patrick Henry

Everyone?

We are all up to speed, and if not it is accountable to our personal apathy?

Having been born into a culture based upon lies, moving to another culture based upon lies, inspires apathy or a sense of being powerless and overwhelmed?

Does that make sense?

I'm at a loss now, what is meant by apathy?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/apathy

1
: lack of feeling or emotion : impassiveness
2
: lack of interest or concern : indifference

Someone doesn't lack interest.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

How about this angle: Is it in your power to help the person know better?

Joe

I was going to send her an

I was going to send her an email she hates talking politics so I thought maybe she could read what I say and let it sink in.

Maybe her adoptive parents were Democrats/Statists.

Perhaps her lack of interest in politics is not so much genetic, although it may well be, but a result of her upbringing.

The Oriental peoples do tend to be more comfortable with authoritarian government structures and they respect their elders much more than Western cultures. On the other hand they are very hard working and self reliant which makes for an interesting combination.

When she says she doesn't believe in the Constitution she is voicing the belief of many even most Americans, especially the political class, who just give it lip service. She is maybe more honest and not so much of a hypocrite.

I posted a comment on another thread that you may be interested in. It is headed "Just restore the original Constitution".

http://www.dailypaul.com/262149/its-time-to-demand-your-stat...

"Jesus answered them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.'" (John 8:34-36)