98 votes

We Need to be Careful...

Let me set this up really quick. I come from a long line of libertarians. My Dad voted Ron Paul back 1988, and I have uncles who are in the same boat. This election season I campaigned for Ron Paul, I donated, I bough t-shirts and bumper stickers and I shared the word with a lot of people. Two of those people who voted straight libertarian ticket this time around!

I am 28 and working on my masters. After High School I worked for three years to save money for college. Then, every semester I applied for dozens of scholarships, sometimes I got some, sometimes I did not, but I applied. I worked two jobs during the summers to pay for classes. Anyone who has a double major and a masters knows this is an expensive endevor. My education cost me $50,000, $10,000 of which I borrowed from the government. I have already paid $5,000 of that back, and have saved another $1,000 for when my first bill comes around soon.

The other day I was walking home from school and I was wearing one of my many Ron Paul shirts. A guy parked his car and had a Ron Paul bumper sticker, so we of course make eye contact and start chatting. We got on the issue of student loans, anad I told him I had taken some out and he freaked out and started telling me I do not understand the message of libertarianism.

Luckily, I believe so much in this message that I do not care what he says, however, this is a great way to scare away any new comers.

I think we need to understand that we might not all see eye to eye on everything, but that is OK.

We need to not act competitive over who is a better libertarian.

When ex Dems or Repubs come our way lets not yell at them and tell them how stupid their party was or call them names, lets embrace them. This is why the GOP is dying, and we cannot go down that route.

Lets leave the fear mongering to fox news and MSNBC and lets speak the truth.

Finally, let's not assume we know more than the other person about something. We can talk about ideas or opinions, but very few of us are experts in anything.

Originally posted 2012-11-10 23:11:58 -0500

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The parasite are both of them.. I know it's not nice to hear

that but it's the truth. You've got 3 upvotes on a promotion of social safety nets at a "libertarian" web site, based on a person that would refuse them adamantly.

It's not anyones job to provide assistance if they don't want to.. If you want a safety net, form one privately.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

You simply deny the reality of our world.

I DO have a local safety net that we work on, but they still suck tax money out of our income and redistribute it. I do not approve, but I know it exists and do not blame people who have to use it. The OP was trying to help people like you understand that your hard-nose and "holier than thou" attitude will turn people off the message of liberty. If people have to choose between eating and being libertarian, they will choose to eat every time. If people are given room to embrace libertarian ideals without expectation that they be perfect examples of libertarianism, they might take the time to hear the message of liberty.
Tell me what you think is more effective: Teaching someone how to become self-reliant through libertarian means, or calling them a parasite for doing the only thing they know to feed their families?

Love or fear? Chose again with every breath.

It's only holier than thou because you feel less less than

holy from hearing the truth.

Just wondering how that teaching has worked on you so far.. people have been fairly kind to you and yet you still promote a government social net when you know Dr.Paul's message.. the one you pretended to support, is flat out against it.

What many of you liberals and neocons really mean when you say things like that is.. Be easy on me till I have time to change.. sounds nice doesn't it? Well you and many like you are examples as to why most people really don't change.

The rest of your comments as well are just more justifications..

Be the change you want to see, no? Well maybe you are being the change you want to see by promoting governmental social nets.

One more thing.. I bitch a lot here.. you know why? Because here, of all place, I thought people understood Liberty, especially those that are regulars here.. So when I see this site gradually fall from the message of Liberty through justifications and outright slaps against the message of it.. Well I'm sure I do seem like holier than thou because I refuse to sit by and watch it happen.

"Truth is treason in an Empire of Lies"

Fitting as of late.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.


I get annoyed when people call me libertarian. I am more than just that label. Sure I am a libertarian when it comes to the government but what I do on my free time is just as much or maybe even more substantial than what my political affiliation is.

This is so true. Bu there are

This is so true. Bu there are a lot on here that do. What bothers me is the obscene name calling. It's terribly unproductive in our movement.


Finally,lets not assume we know more than the other person about something. We can talk about ideas or opinions, but very few of us are experts in anything.


His name is Edward Snowden

What is Capitalism?

Ron Paul Rally at the Capitol, 2008

After it was over, a group of us were walking back to the nearest subway. A woman on the street saw all the Ron Paul paraphernalia and asked, "is he a liberal or a conservative?"

Before I could even open my mouth, another RP supporter came running over and said to her: "Liberalism is a sin, and Ron Paul is no sinner."

A textbook example of how NOT to talk to people.

I say again

Please post less and read more.


You will soon have a Masters degree?

If there is a God

Please help us.

"You are a den of vipers and thieves."

I mean to rout you out!

-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us

-The door is wide open, anything can slither in


is a childish mean rotten thing to say to this young person. What is WRONG with YOU?


jrd3820's picture

What exactly have I said that bothers you so much?


Ps. My Masters degree will not effect you in any way shape or form so there is no need for you to ask God for help.


Love the comments below. I have also betrayed the cause, because I use those damn FRNs too.

I still feel like a pretty good freedom fighter though. Especially since I carry monopoly money (from an actual monopoly game) in my wallet as a conversation piece when I talk about FRNs. ;-)


I couldn't agree more! This is a great post.

I use Federal Reserve Notes......

Does that make me un-libertarian???

"Truth is Treason in an Empire that lies" - Ron Paul

Educate the masses, and win in the end.

Only if there is another option.

There isn't at this time. Asking for government handouts is different.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Borrowed from the government?

Borrowed from the government? Actually you borrowed that money from a private company, the government guaranteed the loan and the Chinese and Federal Reserve assume all the liability when they buy the treasuries.

But technicalities aside, that guy is an idiot and you're absolutely right. We're all stuck in this system whether we want to or not. Basically what he said is like telling someone in the Soviet Union not to eat because all the food came from a collective farm. We want to change the system, unfortunately in the mean time we're stuck in the system.

jrd3820's picture

Lol, you are right if we get

Lol, you are right if we get down to semantics. However, the paperwork I filed said I was borrowing from the US government. Clearly, that is not quite where it comes from, but I am glad you got the message I was putting across.

fantastic idea and message..

fantastic idea and message.. keep working hard... trust me im an anrcho/capitalist and I take student loans

jrd3820's picture

Thanks for the words, we all

Thanks for the words, we all need some help when it comes to financing education. I have friends who graduated $40,000 + in debt, so I think a $10,000 loan is nothing especially considering I paid half of it back while in school. Keep up with your education it is important and it feels good when you are near done.

it takes time,we are all at different stages in our developement

try to not let a single issue become prominent. of all the things you both agree on, that one is minor.

jrd3820's picture

I absolutely agree that it is

I absolutely agree that it is a minor issue. That is what I want people to realize, there is no point in us fighting amongst ourselves over minor issues.

I just got done watching the Police State Video

someone posted a little while ago. Your "run in" with the other Ron Paul dude is the least of our worries. lol

jrd3820's picture

lol, how we treat each other

lol, how we treat each other and new potential voters is the most important issue we are facing. We can keep getting libertarians elected if we do not scare people away. That run in would have scared a new comer away.