9 votes

The World is Not Ending!

Seriously its not! Really, I am not lying.

For those of you saying you will be leaving the US to go to China... Good luck and I genuinely hope everything works out for you. But remember China is still a COMMUNIST country. The economy is doing better in the Asian countries right now, it is true, but if you want the government out of your business that might not be the place to go.

I would also like to note that on my college campus the people who said they would move if Obama got reelected chose Canada and Autstralia as their top choices. Ummm..... Yeah, socialism at it's finest.

For those of you saying we are turning into Hitler controlled Nazi Germany. No we are not. We are turning into a socialist European country (think France, Greece, and what have you). I do not want to be France or Greece so we should fight back and not become France or Greece, but we do not have to worry about things like ethnic cleansing anad the Gestapo. I promise.

For those of you who plan on staying. Let's start working on getting some more libertarians in local positions and in the 2014 midterm election.



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Denise B's picture

I agree that it

does not appear that the world is going to end today, tomorrow or next month; however, I think your statement "we do not have to worry about things like ethnic cleansing and the Gestapo. I promise." is a little naive considering the laws that have been passed in the past ten years, and even more so recently under Obama. What possible reason could there be to pass something like the NDAA and have a provision which specifically includes Americans in the "gestapo like" powers to indefinitely detain people, without due process, counsel, or even being charged? Those kinds of powers would make the "Gestapo" or Hitler or Stalin green with envy and they were not passed into a law without a specific purpose in mind.

I do not think it is helpful for anyone to run around in a constant state of panic, but at the same time, it is very important that people do realize the seriousness of the situation we are in and where it could lead if we don't do something soon to change it. History is littered with examples of what happens when despots seize control of the government (which is exactly what has happened here) and it would be unwise to ignore the lessons that history has taught us.

jrd3820's picture

I agree, this is not the time

I agree, this is not the time to run around in a state of panic, however it is also not the time to take things lightly. I think we have serious work to do and we can get it done. I think we need to be focused on things like solutions and problems not this crazy apocolyptic fear mongering stuff.

You call me naive, and that is fine. I call myself educated, and I am studying history and economics at a masters level. I will never say that makes me smarter than you, but I do not think it makes me naieve.

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”
― Dr. Seuss

Denise B's picture

I'm sorry

...I can come off a little harsh at times and did not mean to insult you, or insinuate that I am smarter than you...just offering a differing perspective. We are in agreement that "apocolyptic fear mongering" is not a helpful thing, but I just also think that we must never lose sight of what can happen and what has happened in the past when governments have been given unchecked power over the people. I think that unfortunately there are many people who will not get involved if they don't feel like they have "skin in the game" and I think that everyone does need to realize that no one is safe living under tyranny and what lies ahead of us can be quite terrible indeed if our course is not quickly altered.

jrd3820's picture

No worries

No worries Denise, I was not horribly offended, I just have been accused of not understanding history on this site a lot lately, when in reality I am writing a masters on economic history. I am not just following textbooks either I am looking into Austrian economics and free market capitalism through the eyes of literary history and dystopias.

I agree, history has shown us some scary things, but I am not afraid and we cannot be afraid. I posted yesterday that I just came back to this site after being gone overseas and working a million hours on a thesis and regular work. It had been months since I had been here, adn when I came back this weekend, I felt like I was watching a horrible combination of fox and msnbc news throwing scare tactics left and right.

I also wrote how my younger sister came here yesterday for the first time as a college student who spread the word this campaign season on her campus. Withing five miuntes of her being her she (not her personally because she did not create an account, but her ideas) was called a sheep and it was implied that an idea she agreed with was not libertarian enough. Now, she is still all for the liberteraian movement, but I think if we act like the mainstream media we so despise using name calling, scare tactics, and finger pointing we could scare away a more timid new potential voter than my younger sister.

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”
― Dr. Seuss

Denise B's picture

I agree with a lot

if not most of your points, especially how we engage each other in conversation and being more welcoming to newcomers...and especially your statement about not being afraid! I guess what people need is a healthy dose of fear...if that makes sense....the kind of fear that drives you to a protective response...but not so much that you climb under the bed and never come out again...;)

jrd3820's picture

Perfect

Right, we need to point out how things can (and are) going wrong and where the path might lead, but then we need to talk about solutions. We need to talk about them without yelling, or calling people stupid (believe me I did not think you were necessailry calling me stupid, I just have had a lot of insults to my intelligence leveled against me here the past few days). Young voters will be afraid of this craziness where we call them sheep and say that they are not libertarian enough if they lean a little different than you or I do. Thanks for the respect in this conversation Denise. I do see what you mean, a little fear is necessary, after all, isnt that what motivates most people? Too much fear is...well..scary, I guess and unproductive.

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”
― Dr. Seuss

Denise B's picture

We are in

perfect agreement then, very well said :)....resorting to name calling and belittling people is never a good way to win them over and I am sorry to say that sometimes my emotions take over and I can come off as being a little unnecessarily rude (although honestly I don't intend to sound that way and hate it when people do it to me)...I am working on it though! It was nice to talk with you and good luck in your endeavors!

people claim the end of the world and stuff like that to avoid..

...saying the truth: they aren't relevant, they aren't in control, they aren't significant, they just don't know what is going on.

Ironically...this should be our starting point.

From this reality, we can better gauge our true power...and the resulting strategy.

Even Ron Paul said he didn't have much faith in the political process. Once we expect that and WHY that is, more effective strategies become clearer.

Get our own media

Empower ourselves with wealth, health, careers...

Except that we will need to organize with leaderz outside the Paul family

We need to conduct productivity strikes and consumers strikes

Etc

jrd3820's picture

This is the kind of response

This is the kind of response I was hoping for! We can empower ourselves starting from personal ideals (ie try not to spend more than you make, fight agression and fear mongering with facts and anti-agression, educate yourself on things like economics and whatnot), then we move into local governments and getting people into local positions, and the midterm 2014 election, and we are on the right path.

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”
― Dr. Seuss

jrd3820's picture

Woops

Maybe I should have titled this FIRE AND BRIMSTONES AND EVERYTHING BAD!!!!! to get people's attention.

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”
― Dr. Seuss

Liked what you wrote, just not the title of it.

The world as we know it IS ending. What happens next? IMO, a lot depends on us. We, in very great numbers, here and abroad, have the power to turn the tide of gloom and doom into FREEEEDOMMMM.

“It is the food which you furnish to your mind that determines the whole character of your life.”
―Emmet Fox

jrd3820's picture

Thanks for the response. I

Thanks for the response. I disagree the world as we know it is not ending, it is changing. But other than that we are on the same page. We can get the young people in on this if we do not scare them away with name calling, finger pointing, and apocolyptic messages. We can get the word out, and once it is out there to the young people they can vote like crazy and things can change.

However, if you do not believe that, its ok, but moving to socialist and communist countries does not make any sense if thaat is what you are trying to flee.

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”
― Dr. Seuss

I agree with you.

But, you know what? We can get the OLD people (like me) in on this, if we don't scare them away with name calling, finger pointing, and apocalypic messages. The OLD people (anyone over 50, imo) DO vote like crazy, so it is vital our message reaches them, as well.

“It is the food which you furnish to your mind that determines the whole character of your life.”
―Emmet Fox

jrd3820's picture

Wonderful

The "Old" people are necessary voters and they can be reached also. We should be careful not to scare any group away or offend them by calling them sheep or what have you, but simply telling them what the ideas of a libertraian government could offer them.

I say ALL voters are welcome if they understand the principle, I do not care who anyone once voted for or what religion, age, gender, or sexual preference they are. If they are on the side of liberty lets welcome them and not scare them away.

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”
― Dr. Seuss

Communists are nothing but

Communists are nothing but socialists in a hurry..... And we're in a big hurry in this country

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere".
--Voltaire

It's hard not to be a menace to society when half the population is happy on their knees. - unknown

jrd3820's picture

I agree, and we need to work

I agree, and we need to work to fix it and we need to work hard and fast, but we are not on the way to some sort of crazy apocolyptic dystopic nazi controlled Germany system.

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”
― Dr. Seuss

Socialism usually ends up

Socialism usually ends up very bad. I disagree that we are heading to a Hitlersque type nation, I think we are already there and most people are too asleep to see it. We've got Monsanto doing all of their evil to the food supply, we're being sprayed from above, the water has IQ lowering fluoroide in it. And how many more false flags do you need to see before it becomes painfully obvious? We are already doing rendition, NDAA is now law....

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere".
--Voltaire

It's hard not to be a menace to society when half the population is happy on their knees. - unknown

jrd3820's picture

. It is not painfully obvious

. It is not painfully obvious that we are a hitlersque type nation becase we are not. Yes there are evil things going on in big government, those things have been going on for decades. I am not too asleep to see the anything. I study the history of economic systems through the eyes of dystopic lieterature and actualy historical dystopias. No, this does not make me smarter than you, but this also does not make me asleep and unaware. Did the gestap show up at your door when you voted for whoever you voted for that was not Obama? Are you forced to fly an American flag with pride everyday? Are you allowed to talk about your ideas places like DP without serious fear of being dragged from your home and executed?

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”
― Dr. Seuss

I think we are in a

I think we are in a hitleresque type nation. Possibly we aren't to the mass extermination of people yet (citizens - we are already mass exterminating foreigners), but we have passed the false flag milestone of hitlers regime. So we are somewhere in the realm of hitleresque.

It's not going to be identical, but it's similar.

OK, it's Hitler Lite! Good

OK, it's Hitler Lite! Good luck with that. And I have been dragged from my house and arrested for speech. They assassinated my character and I had to spend tens of thousands to stay out of jail, for words!!! And I do sometimes worry about what I and others write here because we are all on the list, that is if you are active, which I have been since 2007. Maybe it's not painfully obvious to most people because they have not experienced the pain of the corrupt justice system and the almost full blown police state of the USSA. But I have and if you think we are some kind of free Republic you are asleep. Even Ron Paul said just last week that we are already over the cliff. Do you know what happens next?

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere".
--Voltaire

It's hard not to be a menace to society when half the population is happy on their knees. - unknown

jrd3820's picture

I am not asleep, and I refuse

I am not asleep, and I refuse to be scared.

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”
― Dr. Seuss

I'm not scared either! Eye's

I'm not scared either! Eye's (and ears) wide open here!

Run for office, make the Constitution your platform, and see for yourself what the money grubbers in power will do to you.

If it makes you feel any better we live in Stasi Germany!

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere".
--Voltaire

It's hard not to be a menace to society when half the population is happy on their knees. - unknown

jrd3820's picture

lol Stasi Germany! The people

lol Stasi Germany! The people themselves are coming around to the idea of small government without even knowing it. CO and WA will spend some time fighting the feds on the whole marijuana thing before they tell the feds to eff off and they get mad and vote even more small goverment minded people into office.

Young people will be heading our way in massive numbers that simply cannot be ignored and the only way they won't jump on board is if we push them away with name calling, finger pointing, and fear mongering tactics that the country is becoming sick of no matter what party they are from.

I would like to say, thanks for not calling me stupid or sending ridiculous links my way that are unreliable anyways. Seriously, I am being genuine about this, I know and understand the history behind economic systems and dystopias. I am studying it at a masters level. I know that that does not make me smarter than you or other people here, but I feel like lately if I post anything that trys to tell people maybe they are being a bit dramatic I get lambasted and basically told I am stupid. You and I disagree, but I can say we both are thinking.

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”
― Dr. Seuss

Hi jrd-We Talked Yesterday

And, I am increasingly interested in your perception because

1.You have some first-hand experience with the political climate, optimism vs. pessimism and opportunities for movement growth from the standpoint not only of a college student, but also one who comes into contact with department heads (ie graduate student level). You also have the experience of your younger sister's under-graduate college experience with those drawn to liberty issues and interested in the true state of the country/world. (Two people/same family/different schools/different ages ...similar views politically)

2. Your current areas of academic pursuits helps form your world view and you are in the process of integrating your continuing knowledge of historical economics with your understanding of the current economic situation.

3. You are also integrating your understanding of the cultural interests and factors at play during the time various economic systems were at play.

4. You do not see an end of the world scenario anytime soon, more change even a little bit of the frog in the pot as the temperature is increasing. Therefore, you are looking at solutions because you "plan" on living here for some time and can look forward to solutions or movement in the direction of solutions. You are not folding...not close.

Given 1-4 I am intrigued by this comment you made because it seems to contain conviction.

You said: "Young people will be heading our way in massive numbers that simply cannot be ignored and the only way they won't jump on board is if we push them away with name calling, finger pointing, and fear mongering tactics that the country is becoming sick of no matter what party they are from."

Assuming we will "not" push them away and will learn to avoid political labels and out-grow name calling and vitriol, here are my questions for you:

A. What will drive young people toward liberty in massive numbers?
What are their major concerns, hot buttons, turn-off buttons as far as issues?
B. What economic changes do you foresee, in lieu of the past, and due to a combination of culture, climate and current mistakes?
C. Do you see any easing in academia...professors (department heads generally do much consulting work for corporations)...towards encouraging free thought and open minds? Will these economic changes and academic climate be factors in young people heading our way?

Thanks in advance. I know that is a huge series of questions. Even if you only have time to address briefly, I am interested in your response.

fonta

jrd3820's picture

The economics of it

Capitalism works, people know it, and while there are numerous examples of Hitler styled doom and gloom there are examples of success also.

Here you go.

In sixteenth century ventian renaissance, their market was called mercantilism. Big government control in economy with a focus on nationalism. When they first started introducing capitialism by relaxing immigration laws to let the Jewish population come over to participate in CAPITALISM there was push back by the people a little more used to big goverment spending. They almost got their way then there was push back by the Capitalists, and they became the conrtolling monetary policy for a while. Now, this new form of capitalism was a bit more crony capitalism, but since it was new it was a step up from mercantilism.

Now, everyone wants to say, lets quote history for the worst case scenario examples, but I say we can look at other examples also.

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”
― Dr. Seuss

Instead of Looking "For" Nefarious

ulterior motives by some elite monster under the bed, is it possible to look at human nature behind the step up from mercantilism to capitalism, the drive and the reason, the over-stepping and the need for correction?

I can get into "evil elites"...even go Bilderberger, CFR, scary predictive documents like The Elders of Zion LOL.. and a lot of other monsters under the bed with the best of them. However, I tend to think that human nature at this point in our development contains a selfish drive toward power and gain, even if illicit gain. Given that, the trend would be the same. Don't even need monsters under the bed.

For that reason, I have come to a place where all the above monsters seems to be a diversion and counter-productive. It hardly matters what kernel of truth is contained in "those" theories. Even if their is a multi-generational evil plan, the point should be that we counter it. Not look for "worst case scenarios" but instead look at the human motivators and the best from past systems...the corrections that can be made. The continuum that is and will be part of history as we try to work in the direction of free markets?

So, my point is from mercantilism to out of control corporate capitalism (fascism, whatever you want to call it) do you ever think in terms of economic "corrections" and realistic transitions that, I guess, might be called "the correcting time" ... Any thoughts?

fonta

jrd3820's picture

First of all..

I love that you understand what I am saying. The monsters under the bed have been there and always will be there, but we just cannot be afraid of them. Even more importantly, we need to not focus on them.

As far as "market corrections," I am kinda in a tough spot with that. Because when the change went from mercantilism to capitalism (kinda capitalism, better than what they had capitalism) the government was the one pushing for it by relaxing immigration laws to let Jewish people come over and promote capitalism. The rich people pushed back, but it was the everyday people that pushed back against the pushing of the rich people. So, when Capitalism came to be the name of the game, it still had it's flaws... I am in the midst of research about how those flaws were corrected. The issue is you do not want to try to "force" a market a certain way with corrections, however you do have to correct a market that is incorrect. So, Fonta, you have found me in the middle of my research, and I am pile high in books, and I will let you know where I go from here with that idea.

I do think the biggest challenge we have a head is to stop screaming doom and gloom and Hitler is coming! And of course like I have said to you quite a few times, we need to embrace each other and look for solutions.

I feel like some people are taking this Hitler is coming to get us thing too far, and even if we go over the fiscal cliff tomorrow it is in our hands to build things back up. We can only do that if we are rational and educated on the issues.

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”
― Dr. Seuss

Go Study!!!

...I think Ron Paul would agree with everything you said. He had to give us a slightly "watered down" version of his own personal conclusions for the message to reach the most people. he went to college campuses for a reason.

LOL...like I said, go study. Look forward to hearing from you again.

fonta

jrd3820's picture

Fonta!

Fonta!
I almost left after this weekend, but I decided to stay and fight for liberty.

Ok, lets assume we DO NOT push these voters away, this is what I believe and stand firmly beside.

-Young people have grown increasingly tired of war and overseas agression. Young people from around the world. These young people are starting to see both parties as war parties and will be looking for new options.
-The economic changes is the biggest issue we have to face and the hardest for me to address. We need to find a way to get back to a more laisez farre style of economics. I do not see that under this president, however, at the rate we are going, I just see growing debt and inflation. Those are not good things, but they will not usher in a Hitler controlled state of being.
-In the world of academia I have found most support in my advocation for free market economics from a clearly democratic professor who said I could write whatever I wanted to and argue any point I wanted to as long as I researched it and supported it well. This professor is the one who helped me get my thesis approved. I am finding history and economic professors are understanding that things are not right. Maybe they do not necessarily think they should run out and join the libertarian movement, but they are looking around and saying hmmmmmm....
-It is this questioning by academics that will also help our pursuit.

One more reason I am positive people will be coming our way is because they already have they just havent realized it. Look at CO and WA. They voted for the decriminilization of recreation marijuana. Now they will have to spend some time fighting with the feds and eventually get tired of the large government control and vote in smaller government advocates. It is happening, slowly but surely.

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”
― Dr. Seuss

Most Constructive/Positive Observations I've Heard Today

And, I wanted (and hope I did) outline to others that you have a vital perspective because of your age, your academic pursuits, your observations and your direction. You sure didn't let me down...you have integrity, conviction and the knowledge/observations to back it up. You also represent the lower to mid-range of the age demographic that can be the most influential in the coming elections.

There is a huge opportunity within that demographic as far as unity. We all hope Ron Paul goes to college campuses speaking. It will be impactful. But he is only one man and he is on his last leg of the journey in a society that seldom reveres the elders...that has little respect for the wisdom/knowledge curve that can come from decades of experience. Why? Well the sad truth is that few have gained that kind of wisdom. We don't have that many "elders" who can even approximate being worthy of that kind of respect. Yet another society down the road will have that and your generation has the potential to usher in such drastic and necessary changes that would lead to evolvement benefiting all.

I am 64. My generation screwed up. WE had our little "Love not War" movement and it was all-consuming and a lot of fun. We even got to recognize that it just isn't right for anyone to be forced to sit in the back of a bus. Not great earmarks that those two issues would even be necessary in a supposedly advanced society. In fact, I am sure from your studies you would agree that we lost ground as our interest level, morals and IQs overall dropped like lead balloons. As a society, we are in decline.

What I would LOVE to see is the educated, thinking, well-read and motivated from your generation starting a "relevant...not 60ish" movement. Not affiliated with any party. Relatively impervious by its very nature to political party tactics. Knowledgeable about the economic issues and committed to a market offering the opportunity for individual success, aware of who we are killing and based upon what lies, vehemently against senseless capitalistic wars, etc. The power in the numbers and global support could well be overwhelming.

I wish I could be more succinct. Hope you get my drift. I would certainly support such a movement. Your are YOUR future.

fonta